GM killing Pontiac

[Little G]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414

g

[madness410]

....dammit

[jims69camaro]

i gotta say the writing's been on the wall for quite some time now. i mean, pontiac is the performance division of GM. how do you have driving excitement without the GTO and Firebird? the G8 and it's younger sister are nice, but there is no way they hold up the marquee. when they said they weren't bringing back the firebird i knew that was their swansong, especially with the camaro looming in the distance. sure, pontiac is the performance marquee, but chevy's got the camaro and corvette. and cadillac's got the -V cars. and even GMC gets performance in the light truck/SUV department. come on, tell me you were holding out hope...

[jin1481]

They should turn the G8 into the Impala. Enough of this V8 FWD crap.

[PlanDefeat]

good i'm glad... Hope that firehawk doesn't come out in time to ruin things, hopefully slp falls with hamburger and his retarded ideas

[Little G]

Is there going to be a Chevy Solstice?

g

[GrandmasterCow]

damnit!

[dan]

gm can rot in hell..

[BurninrubberGT]

gm can rot in hell..

x2 :evil:

[GrandmasterCow]

x2 :evil:

gm can rot in hell..

x 3 :evil:

[NastyEllEssWon]

x 3 :evil:





x4...

[Mike]

good i'm glad... Hope that firehawk doesn't come out in time to ruin things, hopefully slp falls with hamburger and his retarded ideas

yay lets pray for local businesses that have employees and support people and pay taxes go out of business

[NJ346]

Oh...poor Trans am owners:moon:

[Mike]

Oh...poor Trans am owners:moon:

this from the guy that cried about me calling the camaro a catfish? :rofl:

[NJ346]

this from the guy that cried about me calling the camaro a catfish? :rofl:

damn....I thought it was camero?:loser:

[Mike]

damn....I thought it was camero?:loser:

funny you talk like i did that, but not only was my own sig affected, but i was laying in a hospital bed for the whole weekend it was happening

[madness410]

Is there going to be a Chevy Solstice?

g

correct me if im wrong but didnt they pull the plug on the soltice and the sky a while ago?

[NJ Torque]

correct me if im wrong but didnt they pull the plug on the soltice and the sky a while ago?

don't think so...? they made a targa version..

[Knipps]

AFAIK they're limited production, it'll stop in the next 5 years or so regardless
(waiting for Al to chime in)

[V]

plans of pontiac getting axed were long time coming, id heard months and months back, something like by 2011 all pontiacs will just be rebadged chevys and then by 2014 pontiac will be no more.

as for solstice/sky.. they only stopped work on the next generation model as of now, they are still making the current design version just with little changes every year, ie the solstice targa(there will be no sky version)

[BigAls87Z28]

I said this 6 months ago. At GMI, we knew this since pre-bail out talks.
Glad to see the rest of the media is catching up.

The Kappa cars, Solstice and Sky, are not dead per say, but thier parent brands are, and the future of the platform is. There will not be a second generation Kappa platform.

With the death of the two parent companies, these cars will probably just disappear. There could be a possible replacement on the upcoming Alpha chassis, but who knows.

[BonzoHansen]

So the resale on solstices will drop and make them prime candidates for LS9 retrofits lol

[edpontiac91]

How the "F" can GM say that they are keeping Buick because it is more profitable! If everybody over 70 years old died tomorrow, Buick would be dead. A friend of mine told me that some dealers have Buick LaCrosse and Supers that are over 170 days old. That's almost 6 months of sitting and they can't give them away. The dealer is paying a floor plan just to have them sit and the factory doesn't care because once the car hits the dealer lot it is considered SOLD by GM. How does the "Excitement" division say afloat with the styling changes that NEVER came in the past. Take the Grand Prix, 1990-1996 same design, 1997-2003 same design and 2003-2008 same design. During these years they didn't even change the cigar lighter or the wheel covers. How long can you suck a design dry before the public says why buy a "NEW" one when the one they have (that is 3-4 years old) LOOKS the same. They did this crap with the Bonneville until it was killed, the Firebird from 1998-2002, the Grand Am and so forth. Every design was used for 5-6 years without a thought to freshen it up. Ford makes a design change or a Special Edition several times a year with the Mustang and the press and the public go wild. Had to go to a Ford dealer the other day and he had 5 Mustangs on the floor, two ROUSH, two G.T.500KR and a Caroll Shelby Edition (Dark Blue with White Stripes) and all of them were priced between $47,000 and $54,000. I must say I stood there and drolled :drool:. They looked awesome and when they started one in the lot it sounded like a NASCAR cup car. Now I feel better, LONG LIVE PONTIAC! :cry:

[Mike]

How the "F" can GM say that they are keeping Buick because it is more profitable! If everybody over 70 years old died tomorrow, Buick would be dead. A friend of mine told me that some dealers have Buick LaCrosse and Supers that are over 170 days old. That's almost 6 months of sitting and they can't give them away. The dealer is paying a floor plan just to have them sit and the factory doesn't care because once the car hits the dealer lot it is considered SOLD by GM. How does the "Excitement" division say afloat with the styling changes that NEVER came in the past. Take the Grand Prix, 1990-1996 same design, 1997-2003 same design and 2003-2008 same design. During these years they didn't even change the cigar lighter or the wheel covers. How long can you suck a design dry before the public says why buy a "NEW" one when the one they have (that is 3-4 years old) LOOKS the same. They did this crap with the Bonneville until it was killed, the Firebird from 1998-2002, the Grand Am and so forth. Every design was used for 5-6 years without a thought to freshen it up. Ford makes a design change or a Special Edition several times a year with the Mustang and the press and the public go wild. Had to go to a Ford dealer the other day and he had 5 Mustangs on the floor, two ROUSH, two G.T.500KR and a Caroll Shelby Edition (Dark Blue with White Stripes) and all of the were priced between $47,000 and $54,000. I must say to stood there and drolled :drool:. They looked awesome and when they started one in the lot it sounded like a NASCAR cup car. Now I feel better, LONG LIVE PONTIAC! :cry:

buicks sell like crazy overseas

[miketa95]

the bright side: the value on pontiacs will drop and I can buy one again :mrgreen:

[NJ Torque]

buicks sell like crazy overseas

yup... the car "to have" is a black buick...

[racerx520]

well i remember when oldsmobile was shut down. i cant believe they want to shut down pontiac, its (or atleast was) such a big company and made such memorable cars. im gonna miss them, kinda makes me pissed, i heard about their switch to just re-badging chevy cars but i thought that was just until GM gets out of this funk.

i think if GM needs to cut a company, it should be saab, i hate hate HATE their cars and how crappy they look. man, this blows! seemed like pontiac was just getting good again with the G8 and the GXP Bonneville and stuff like that, such crap, its too bad pontiac couldnt do the firebird i saw prototype drawings of and end it there, atleast they'd go out with a bang, none of this pontiac torrent crap!

[BigAls87Z28]

well i remember when oldsmobile was shut down. i cant believe they want to shut down pontiac, its (or atleast was) such a big company and made such memorable cars. im gonna miss them, kinda makes me pissed, i heard about their switch to just re-badging chevy cars but i thought that was just until GM gets out of this funk.

i think if GM needs to cut a company, it should be saab, i hate hate HATE their cars and how crappy they look. man, this blows! seemed like pontiac was just getting good again with the G8 and the GXP Bonneville and stuff like that, such crap, its too bad pontiac couldnt do the firebird i saw prototype drawings of and end it there, atleast they'd go out with a bang, none of this pontiac torrent crap!


Saab is already gone. GM is looking to unload it onto the Sweedish goverment. They dont want it.
GXP Bonni, and the Bonni overall, has been dead for a while now.
A Firebird vehicle would be exactly what GM has been doing wrong for a long time.
40 years ago, when GM owned 60% of the market share, they could make several cars off one platform.
But now they have 20% of the market share, and having 4 variants eating up the same budget to fight cars that are just have ONE entry. So you make 4 decent cars instead of 1 or 2 great cars.
Pontiac, overall, has been dead since 2004. The only new car GM has made for Pontiac since then was the Solstice.
Everything else was a hand me down from another division. Even Toyota.

[BonzoHansen]

Saab is DOA too.

History means nothing. GM killed the body cladding division, whoops I mean Pontiac, years ago with crapola ugly product. It comes down to cost and GM can't afford all these name plates anymore. And not that many people buy Pontiacs. And they cannot afford to make different platforms for each brand, and everyone cries "this car is just that car rebadged". Right.

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

[BigAls87Z28]

Exactly. While Pontiac does have the #2 best selling brand for GM, its overlap that GM needs to get rid of.
Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy. thats your Future GM.

[Mike]

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

BINGO

[BurninrubberGT]

wow this sucks even more now i just realized a 4 peat in rolex for the gt championship is out of the question for pontiac :(

pontiac swept the series today at VIR too

[maroman88]

Exactly. While Pontiac does have the #2 best selling brand for GM, its overlap that GM needs to get rid of.
Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy. thats your Future GM.

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

[Mike]

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

besides the box trucks, dump trucks and other heavy duty fleet vehicles

[BigAls87Z28]

so they wanna get rid of the overlap... and are KEEPING gmc...? lol cuz not having a single original model is great for not overlapping... sierra = silverado, yukon = tahoe, yukon xl = suburban, accadia = traverse, envoy = trailblazer, canyon = colorado, and so on... save for the P=I=M=P Denali packages they're useless

Overlap can be overlooked when you bring in profits like the trucks do.
The research shows that people who buy GMC trucks will not switch to Chevy trucks, but go to Dodge or Toyota.
Odd huh.
Kind of line the 2nd car most Mustang owners looked at was not the Camaro, but the Grand Am.

Other nugget of info.
GMC Yukon/Yukon Denali owners tend to have a higher net income then Escalade owners.

IMO...GMC should be turned into GM's Land Rover/Jeep division.

Make a Wrangler fighter, Yukon goes after the LR3/4 type SUV, kill Acadia, Keep new Terrain, then throw in your pick ups.

[Mike]

al, that's because lots of escalade owners don't report their income to the irs. lol

[racerx520]

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

and i am gonna miss pontiac, just thought it was a great car company in my own opinion, but thats just me, i'll still be a GM guy, but not a chevy guy lol. a damn shame is what this is. and you say that pontiac has been dead since 04, which i would have to say, they've been going downhill since before that, since when they started making mini vans and all that crap, i was really hoping to see one of my favorite car brands make a 180 and start being something to be extra proud of again.

and i would have to agree that GM should start fighting other companies other than just ford vehicles, they have enough branches, someone told me hummer was cut too...if they havent, i think they should make hummers cheap and more jeep like, make them able to go in the mud without instantly needing to get them detailed for 300 bucks the next day, make them actually durable and give them back the diesel engines, none of this 5cyl or 390 ci crap and get rid of the H2's and H3's, they suck, i think thats where GM REALLY went wrong, trying to make hummer into a big selling company when theyre only in the market for those who buy hair gel or rogaine in bulk or go to the skanky bars/clubs.

and im glad to hear saab is gone, that was another thing GM just pis sed into the wind with, blowing money away when we could probably have had seen more/better cars.

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

one thing that i thought of which i found kinda funny was, here are all these japanese companies making hybrids, and small cars, and efficient cars. then when you come to the U.S. its all about the big muscle cars still, i mean GM needs to get this Volt out i think to really satisfy the tree huggers out there and help increase their sales. thatsjust my thinking

thats really all i can think to complain about for now, im sure lot of people dont agree with me, but thats just my thinking with GM and how they really need to save themselves

[NjbadSS]

I was thinking the same thing myself..will the value of older pontiac vehicles go up from this or drop?

[Mike]

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.


they dont make the parts anymore, why would they become harder to get than they already were? i doubt it will have any affect at all on the values of third and fourth gens, as they were produced in such large quantities.

and your other point.......if no one wanted front wheel drive, honda and toyota wouldnt be selling so many cars....

[BigAls87Z28]

this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?

Who knows at this point. They are not as desirable as older cars, but its possible that in 20 years or so it could be.

and i am gonna miss pontiac, just thought it was a great car company in my own opinion, but thats just me, i'll still be a GM guy, but not a chevy guy lol. a damn shame is what this is. and you say that pontiac has been dead since 04, which i would have to say, they've been going downhill since before that, since when they started making mini vans and all that crap, i was really hoping to see one of my favorite car brands make a 180 and start being something to be extra proud of again.

Before Minivans, there was wagons, and Pontiac had wagons.
People wanted minivans after Chrysler brought out the Caravan/Voyager/T&C tripple team and it swept the US Automotive world.
Pontiac might have been going downhill in your eyes, but I think that most people think that these companies only made super muscle cars that were blazing fast.
In real life, most Chevy's, Pontiacs, and all the rest of the automakers just made cars to suit the rest of the publics need, to get form point a to b.

Its the same idea that the GTO was this all powerful super awesome muscle car that had its own everything, when it in fact was just a Tempest/Lemans, which is equivlient to the Grand Am or G6 today. Yes, it turned into its own vehicle, but its design, body pannels, interior is all Tempest/Lemans.
Same goes for these mystical SS cars that roamed the streets. Not all of them were big honkin 454 powerd muscle cars. Most were SS 350 cars running low 15's to high 14's.
As I digress...your opinion on Pontiac's downfall is your own, but dont think that because it started to sell minivans did it start to fall.
I dont know what Pontiac could have made that would have stopped people in thier tracks and buy them again. Pontiac the brand is heavily purchased by women, so I guess you could say that Pontiac hurt itself when it stopped making SUV's and Minivans and moved to Solstice, GTO's, G8's and G6 coupes.
You want to know what the best outcome would be?
Reports say that if the Fiat-Chrysler deal doesnt go through, Fiat will hook back up with GM, and if thats teh case, there should be a short-track mission to get Alfa's built here in the US as Pontiacs.
Fiat should be sold under Saturn.
Fiat took a lot of GM technology (and 2 billion dollars) when they spit up sevearl years ago. Most of Alfa's cars are built off of GM's Epsilon or Delta platform. Fiat and GM share diesel engine technology. Alfa's 3.2 V6 is based off GM's 2.8/3.0/3.6 V6 engines.
Pray that the Fiat-Chyrsler deal falls through. That to me would be Pontiac's only hope.


and i would have to agree that GM should start fighting other companies other than just ford vehicles, they have enough branches, someone told me hummer was cut too...if they havent, i think they should make hummers cheap and more jeep like, make them able to go in the mud without instantly needing to get them detailed for 300 bucks the next day, make them actually durable and give them back the diesel engines, none of this 5cyl or 390 ci crap and get rid of the H2's and H3's, they suck, i think thats where GM REALLY went wrong, trying to make hummer into a big selling company when theyre only in the market for those who buy hair gel or rogaine in bulk or go to the skanky bars/clubs.


GM has been trying to sell Hummer for a year now. Lots of tire kickers, but no offers now. GM has mismanaged that brand to no end, not to mention the image it gained from gas guzzler to its global outlook of a brand that makes US Military equipment. Strike's 1, 2 and 3.
Did GM do wrong by making the H2 and H3? Not at all. The two are very capeable trucks. I think that the cartoonish design, the over the top look, brought down the brand. They had the chance to make a true luxury truck division, a domestic Land Rover complete with all the abilities and history to go with it. I think that the H3 was thier best SUV, and I really wish that the platform is tranferd over to GMC as a midsized rugged SUV.
GM didnt expect "big" sales numbers, but they wanted a full range of Hummer vehicles. Hummer had really good advertising too...its a shame it had no design guidence.

and im glad to hear saab is gone, that was another thing GM just pis sed into the wind with, blowing money away when we could probably have had seen more/better cars.

How wrong you are. Saab was a huge advantage for GM to have. The basis for the Ecotec engine came from Saab. Saab's advanced knowlage of turbocharging helped GM develop better and more powerful engines. The Epsilon FWD platform that was co-devleoped with Saab and GM along with Fiat, forms the basic structure for cars like the Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saturn Aura, Saab 9-3, Opel/Vaux Vectra, Alfa 159 and its variants, along with second generation Epsilon cars like the brand new Buick LaCrosse, Opel/Vaux/Buick Insigna/Regal, and next generation Malibu. It is rumored to also underpin an upcoming Caddy flagship. Ep2 has an advanced Haladex AWD system that can be seen under certain cars like the Saab 9-3 TurboX, or the new Opel/Vaux Insigna OPC/VXR making 325hp. The system can push almost 100% of power to the rear tires if it detects slipping.
Saab, out of all the brands, is the biggest lost. Another brand that was run into the ground as GM raped and pillaged it for technology. Saab gets a few outgoing presents such as heavily updated 9-3, a new 9-5 that will debut soon, as well as the upcoming 9-4X crossover.

someone also said it too, get rid of all these FWD cars, no one likes them, just start doing rear wheel drive again.

As said before, if that was the case, BMW would be the #1 selling brand on this planet, followed by other brands like Benz, Holden, Infinity, Caddy, most of Lexus, etc etc.
FWD is easier to package, easier to make, and easier to design around.

one thing that i thought of which i found kinda funny was, here are all these japanese companies making hybrids, and small cars, and efficient cars. then when you come to the U.S. its all about the big muscle cars still, i mean GM needs to get this Volt out i think to really satisfy the tree huggers out there and help increase their sales. thatsjust my thinking

Well, apparently you are a little lost.
No one, not even all-mighty Toyota, has more cars that get over 30mpg then GM. Problem is just as you put it...at least perception wise, that GM concentrates on making muscle cars.
They arent putting the Volt out to "satisfy" tree huggers. Its to show that GM can lead in the technology sector, that it can develop a game changing vehicle, and that they can combine there powerful engineering resources to making a vehicle that can do more then any hybird vehicle to date has been able to do.
But the Volt, at the end of the day, hurt GM more. GM will lose money on every car. But Toyota loses money on every Prius they sell too.
Cars like the upcoming Chevy Cruze, with the ability to hit 40mpg or greater with no help from hybrid technology, is what will save GM. They can turn out several hundred thousand of these vehicles, making a solid compact car for teh first time in...ever, and perhaps turn a profit after a year or so of selling them.

Making Firebirds, RWD performance cars, and the like wont save GM. At this point, they are thier own worst enemy.
Poor marketing, poor brand direction, poor vehicle management, ****** PR team, and a solid 30 year run on being the tail end of quality, design, durability, has taken its toll and most americans wont ever consider a GM vehicle. Throw in the fact that they are paraded in front of national TV talking about how they are gunna fail, and how the hell are you gunna get people to buy thier vehicles? It was on everyones lips at the autoshow. Everyone I talked to at both press and public days kept brining up the same stupid "well, who knows if they will be around much longer."

Let me put it this way. While the name GM might disappear, Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Buick names will not. They will be bought up, cut up, moved around, what have you, but these names will not be going anywhere.

[BonzoHansen]

"this is gonna make it even harder for me to find parts for my third gen isnt it? how about older cars like my 87, will this help out its value at all, or will it hurt it?"

You buying lots of parts at the dealer? Probably not, so the question is moot.

IMO people with newer (2003+) will see the biggest drop in value. By drop I mean owners will take a beating (sorry James, Craig, John, Brian, etc.). Hell, I bought my 2002 Olds Intrigue new off the dealer lot after the decision to kill olds was made and I got that car so cheap it was insane. That news alone made the dealer invoice the true MSRP (ie high $$ point).

IMO it will not hurt the value of old cars, and a nice 3rd gen T/A should hold current (and rising) value because these cars are less bought for daily use so the buying criteria/process is much different. 4th gens are loosing value now as the new camaro, stang, genesis, challenger and such hit the road and they are still just "used cars".

"As said before, if that was the case, BMW would be the #1 selling brand on this planet, followed by other brands like Benz, Holden, Infinity, Caddy, most of Lexus, etc etc.
FWD is easier to package, easier to make, and easier to design around. "

And for 90% of the public, much easier to drive, especially in rain/snow.

[LS1Hawk]

Oh...poor Trans am owners:moon:

Have you looked at the banner on the top of this forum lately? It's an F-Body club. You act like the Firebird is a Mustang. I'm sure if it were Chevrolet getting killed Camaro owners would be just as upset.

For all you whining about PMD going DOA, were any of you really going to buy a new one in the next 2 years, or have in the past 2 years? Talk doesn't pay the bills.

No. I have already decided my next car is going to be a 2010 or 11 LaCrosse. But it's not the buyer's fault when Pontiac isn't offering something the public wants. GM could have made Pontiac a surviving brand years ago. They decided Pontiac's fate, not the buyer, when they took the excitement and heritage out of the division. The bigger issue to me here is the fact that another iconic, American brand is lost and gone forever.

[racerx520]

i didnt realize that saab was that big of a company for GM, i never really saw much good from them really, always thought they were really ugly and the few people i knew that owned them said they broke down as much as VW's

and yes, i must agree that the world seems to have fallen for the FWD, and i understand why, just still not much of a fan lol

and youre right that unless i get parts from a dealer, it shouldnt be harder to get parts, but i also wasnt sure if this meant aftermarket companies may just stop dealing with pontiac parts to begin with. and i asked about 3rd gen values because as of the last couple years the value of my car has slowly, very slowly been coming up fromt he bottom and appreciating barely. but i'll have to wait another 20 yrs for it to be worth much? so a 42 year old car? man, i guess i better get a good car cover once i get a truck lol

[jims69camaro]

as far as cars appreciating in value or not, that won't be tied into pontiac's demise. cars closer to the current model year will be impacted the most.

things take a long time to come around from just being considered junk to being valued for the history or whatever and saved/cherished. while you may be doing that now, the rest of the public takes a long time to come around to that type of thinking. while you might have seen a slight increase in used-car prices, specifically your year/model, we are a long way off from exponential price increases. it was only back in the early '90s that the first gen camaro saw the first of its price surges thanks to the auction houses. that didn't automatically make a 1970 1/2 Z28 worth any more or any less. only recently have the earlier second gens been increasing in worth. remember, it's what the person will pay, not the sticker price that will increase the value of a car. you can put whatever price you want to on a car, but that doesn't mean that people will actually pay that.

[5.7TA]

Aww man this sucks, parts are gonna get expensive now. Yeah there has been a lot of talk about Pontiac dying as a division of GM for a little bit now, so this comes as no surprise, although I had hoped they were all rumors though

[BigAls87Z28]

Parts wont be expensive because they share so much with other GM products.
Stop having panic attacks, everyone. If you own an LS1, you should be used to getting raped in the ass on the price of headers, heads/cam packages, etc etc.

[miketa95]

Overlap can be overlooked when you bring in profits like the trucks do.
The research shows that people who buy GMC trucks will not switch to Chevy trucks, but go to Dodge or Toyota.
Odd huh.

Yeah I can vouch for that. My dad owned an 01 Sierra and was convinced that his truck was made "on a truck assembly line" while the silverado was made "on a car assembly line," and therefore he would never consider buying a chevy truck.

[firebirdcrazy]

Its one very sad year. The hopes of ever seeing a firebird again just went out the window. I now know that I will never give up my firebird Formula! NEVER!!!!!Its just horrible

GM Just dissapointed me big time

[BurninrubberGT]

its official, pontiac ends in 2010.......i love how people think buick and gmc are safe, they wont last much longer than pontiac


R.I.P. Pontiac, gm will never see one of my family members in their showroom again

[BonzoHansen]

Pay attention, GMC makes real trucks so that name plate will survive, and Buick is a bigger seller worldwide so it is reasonably safe and could even expand. Make the G8 a Regal!

[Tsar]

its official, pontiac ends in 2010.......i love how people think buick and gmc are safe, they wont last much longer than pontiac


R.I.P. Pontiac, gm will never see one of my family members in their showroom again
If I read your sig correctly your family hasn't been to a showroom in awhile... Maybe there's someone you missed there?

[BurninrubberGT]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f89/pontiac-enthusiasts-owners-will-you-flock-other-gm-brands-78488/#post1718414

^^ got the front page poll :D

[maroman88]

its official, pontiac ends in 2010.......i love how people think buick and gmc are safe, they wont last much longer than pontiac


R.I.P. Pontiac, gm will never see one of my family members in their showroom again

i refuse to read any of the articles! but damn... they atleast drug out the killing of olds for a few years

[DevilDougWS6]

well. when i get home from iraq i should be able to pick up a g8 for real cheap! this sucks though. i suppose ill keep my TA and stick it in my garage for some years it could become worth something.

[LS1Hawk]

i refuse to read any of the articles! but damn... they atleast drug out the killing of olds for a few years

Yeah, that's another sad thing. It doesn't look like they are going to do anything to commemorate the end of Pontiac. No special edition vehicles or anything, just 2010 see ya. Very sad.

[wrong generation]

plans of pontiac getting axed were long time coming, id heard months and months back, something like by 2011 all pontiacs will just be rebadged chevys and then by 2014 pontiac will be no more.

pontiac's have been nothing more then rebadges chevys for 30 years now. its just taking them this long to cut the final string and put the last nail in the coffin. as much as i hate to see pontiac go i really cant say anything due to i didnt have any plans on buying a new car any time soon and personaly dont care for any of the current new cars being made.

[BonzoHansen]

pontiac died in 1979!

[BurninrubberGT]

If I read your sig correctly your family hasn't been to a showroom in awhile... Maybe there's someone you missed there?

lol thats true i guess...

[BigAls87Z28]

its official, pontiac ends in 2010.......i love how people think buick and gmc are safe, they wont last much longer than pontiac


R.I.P. Pontiac, gm will never see one of my family members in their showroom again

Really? So what brand will you buy from? What cars were drawing you into Pontiac show rooms before?
G6? G3? G5? Vibe?

G8 will most likely get rebadged with ME Chevy badges and show up in Chevy dealers as Caprice.

Buick is safe.
GMC is safeish

And Scott, here is your Regal...

http://www.speedheads.de/auto/zukunft/bilder/opel_insignia_opc-5626-56.jpg

this was ins the 325hp turbo 6cyl AWD 6spd manual version that will start to show up in Europe.

With Saturn gone, Opel will be Buick in America.

[Mike]

al whats the "me chevy badge" mean

[BigAls87Z28]

ME = Middle East.

Anyway, I had this big thing typed up, but i hig backspace and it went back 3 pages...****in computer

Anyway, what really would detract you from any GM dealer considering that any one of thoes cars could easily be swapped over to another brand in a model year?

[Mike]

so are they gonna rebadge the kidney grill, or put the chevy nose on all of them?

i might be more tempted by a g8 with the chevy badges honestly

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/2008-chevrolet-lumina-ss-24.jpg


No photoshop needed. Only problem is that it doesnt match the new Chevy twin grill design.

[BonzoHansen]

I'll take that Al.

[Mike]

al, i know about that car over there, but i was wondering if they are gonna use the fascias that they already made for pontiac or not, any current rumors?

[HeadlessNorseman]

ME = Middle East.

Anyway, I had this big thing typed up, but i hig backspace and it went back 3 pages...****in computer

Anyway, what really would detract you from any GM dealer considering that any one of thoes cars could easily be swapped over to another brand in a model year?

I think they need more solid RWD cars. There going the right direction, like the CTS, G8, re releasing the camaro. Something they can sell as cop cars again, with lsx motors(how scary would an ls2 powered cop be?). I even like the new design and style of cars like the g6, impala, and the new malibu. They just need the world to start buying cars again. And the cobalt still needs a lot of work. The base model, anyway. The thing about it is...its just no fun to drive. The feel/handling is just not there. And the seats and seating position are kind of lame. That is one thing that i think makes cars like the corolla and civic stand out a little more. And the cobalt has a better motor than both too, more power, better power band, and i like the trans and clutch better too. They should at least offer a more sports oriented small car without the extra power or novelty items like the SS, just better tires, and a little stiffer suspension tuning and more bucket-ed seats

[BigAls87Z28]

There was some article scaring everyone that Holden would lose $1 billion if they shut down Pontiac.
They could probably double sales by making it a Chevy. You now have a Camaro and a Caprice (id keept he C names tied together again, keep the relation going)
Keep the W body Impala as a fleet car, mass sales car untill next gen Malibu comes around and/or another car gets signed up for Oshawa to take up slack.

[Mike]

cobalt dosent need work, cobalt is done

[91chevywt]

The only people that really care about pontiac are guys that write on boards like this. A majority of Americans have turned their back on GM. The ONLY way to save GM is to cut back...and show the guys that are totally sold on hondas and toyotas that GM is making big changes. Buick needs to stay because it is a large source of income overseas. So far I think GM is doing the right thing. They need GMC for the heavy duty trucks, they are a large source of income as well. Cadillac will be the luxury brand while Chevrolet will go back to being the car aimed at the average joe...targeted at defeating the hondas and toyotas of today.

As far as the electric car, GM has had the technology to make a good electric car for a long time. They did have one, the EV1, which was killed by the powers above. The people who had them loved them. They are General Motors...they can make anything...rest asured when the Volt comes out it will be a great car. I just hope all this cutting back isn't too late.

[Mike]

ill buy that al....... unless

v6...... caprice
gt........impalla
gxp.......impy ss

[BigAls87Z28]

I thought of the line up a few times.
Could be like Vette where there is no "LS" package.
But...
Caprice LS gets DI 300hp V6 with 6spd auto cloth
Caprice LT gets same engine, just leather
Caprice LTZ is the L67 V8 360hp 6spd auto aka G8 GT
Caprice SS is the G8 GXP complete with manual trans

[Mike]

works, but it would be fun having it be like your gen caprice, with the imp being the top model

[CamaroJoe1987]

even still, i dont see the point in cuting pontiac, who buys a buick anymore? the new enclave lloks eaxactly like the traverse and gmc, same thing as the silverados and suburbans. no if Gm just cut those 2 and maybe a model or 2 from pontiac, the G5 is pointless, thats a freggen cobalt in pontiac tags maybe the G6 too.

[Tsar]

even still, i dont see the point in cuting pontiac, who buys a buick anymore? the new enclave lloks eaxactly like the traverse and gmc, same thing as the silverados and suburbans. no if Gm just cut those 2 and maybe a model or 2 from pontiac, the G5 is pointless, thats a freggen cobalt in pontiac tags maybe the G6 too.

People overseas, mainly Chinese and guess what? There are over 1 billion of them and their money is just as good as yours.


OMG WORLD OUTSIDE OF AMERICA :willy:

[BurninrubberGT]

Really? So what brand will you buy from? What cars were drawing you into Pontiac show rooms before?
G6? G3? G5? Vibe?

G8 will most likely get rebadged with ME Chevy badges and show up in Chevy dealers as Caprice.

Buick is safe.
GMC is safeish

And Scott, here is your Regal...

http://www.speedheads.de/auto/zukunft/bilder/opel_insignia_opc-5626-56.jpg

this was ins the 325hp turbo 6cyl AWD 6spd manual version that will start to show up in Europe.

With Saturn gone, Opel will be Buick in America.

g6/g6 coupe/g8/solstice/g5/trans am/bonneville/grand prix/gto just to name a few

im tired of this chevy/buick is the perfect car **** from people like you, i am and will continue to be a proud pontiac enthusiest, as well as my family will be, and why buy from a company that has destroyed your favorite brand? please tell me

[Mike]

g6/g6 coupe/g8/solstice/g5/trans am/bonneville/grand prix/gto just to name a few

im tired of this chevy/buick is the perfect car **** from people like you, i am and will continue to be a proud pontiac enthusiest, as well as my family will be, and why buy from a company that has destroyed your favorite brand? please tell me

the question was what new pontiacs draw you into a dealership, and you named cars that they dont make any more. you just explained why pontiac is dead.

so how many of those new cars does your family own? get over it man, if pontiac was outselling buick, BUICK WOULD BE GONE, you really ****ing think they just picked pontiac out of a hat?

[Savage_Messiah]

i feel the need to reiterate on what Mike said.

g6/g6 coupe/g8/solstice/g5/trans am/bonneville/grand prix/gto just to name a few

Congratulations, 4 out of 8 (I'mcounting g6 and g6 coupe as the same because.... they are) new cars you said you'd buy haven't been made in a little bit. And realistically someone would not be looking at the whole range of pontiacs... if you're shopping for a solstice you're gonna be also looking at other roadsters, not midsize 4 door cars.


im tired of this chevy/buick is the perfect car **** from people like you, i am and will continue to be a proud pontiac enthusiest, as well as my family will be, and why buy from a company that has destroyed your favorite brand? please tell me

They've all been the same cars with different faces for years.

[Predator86]

Real quick

I was considering buying a g8 sometime in the next few monthes....do u think will they still honor the warranty? And do u think this killing of pontiac will drive the g8 price up or down?

[Savage_Messiah]

I'm pretty sure any GM dealer will honor the warranties, but not 100% on that

[dan]

i honestly hope gm tanks, and tanks hard...the government needs to stop WASTING money to do nothing more then prolong the inevitable
gm got themselves into this mess and now they need to pay the price and if that means being disolved/broken up/parted out .however you wanna put it...so be it
same with chrysler

[BigAls87Z28]

I dont agree 100% on that. I do agree that they have made mistakes, but why should people know pay for the mistakes of people in the past?
GM over just the last 8 years have done so much to improve the company in every single way. Everything from 2004 foward was a huge departure from what they had been doing.
And remember that what tehy are going through is not because GM is stupid. Toyota is also going though the same problems, as is just about every car company.


I understand you not wanting to go back to pontiac to a point, but to be honest, and this is coming form the biggest Gm fanboi on this site
The G6 is a hunk of ****, as is the G5.
Id rather get a G3.
Solstice and G8 was thier only hope. And both could be moved to somewhere else.

[Knipps]

I'd totally buy the G8 with Chevy badges, ditching the kidney grill would be the best thing they could do for it

http://www.motorauthority.com/content/thumbs/p/o/pontiac_g8_holden_commodore_conversion_main630-1106-630x360.jpg

[dan]

I dont agree 100% on that. I do agree that they have made mistakes, but why should people know pay for the mistakes of people in the past?
GM over just the last 8 years have done so much to improve the company in every single way. Everything from 2004 foward was a huge departure from what they had been doing.
And remember that what tehy are going through is not because GM is stupid. Toyota is also going though the same problems, as is just about every car company.


toyota isn't about to tank hard though..gm is..
and everything 2004 forward may be huge improvements..but the old saying "too little too late" comes strongly to mind

[BigAls87Z28]

toyota isn't about to tank hard though..gm is..
and everything 2004 forward may be huge improvements..but the old saying "too little too late" comes strongly to mind

Eh....if the reports are true, Toyota has about 18 billion in reserves, and is burning money 2x faster then GM was.
When GM went to Congress in late 08, they had about 12 billion and burned about 2 billion a month.
Toyota is burning through so much cash, that the Toyoda family forced the CEO Wantabe out a few months ago to but one of the Toyoda sons in so that they can control costs.
They have spent BILLIONS in trying to make themselves American, build thier truck plants and pour tons of cash into the SUVs.
Oh yeah, and they lose money on every Prius. Remember that.

[transmaro93]

it is sad to sit back and watch an american company as large and as prestigious ( at least years ago thought to be) as general motors just implode... at least i can tell my kids if i ever have them i was alive to watch the demise of America... THE END HAS JUST BEGUN FELLAS.... just sit back grab a beer and watch... because there is nothing that any of you can do about it... sorry to make this political but it really is being GM's controlling stock holder is the federal government...

[LS1Hawk]

I don't feel sorry for GM. I feel sorry for guys like Bunkie Knudsen and DeLorean who brought Pontiac to prominence when they transformed it from its jalopy image to the high performance brand that it will be remembered for. Or Jim Wangers who poured his heart and soul into marketing the wide-tracks, GTO and Firebird only to see these dumbasses throw out storied models and replace them with "G" cars and stupid ad campaigns like "Pontiac is CAR." I wonder how many brain cells GM wasted coming up with that.

[BigAls87Z28]

You know, outside of the current Pontiac is CAR, Pontiac has had some of the best commercials for GM.

[Untamed]

I read the reason for Pontiac's demise was for profitability, not lack of sales. There are lots of G6's on the road, but apparently the decision to "shutter" Pontiac was because it was too expensive to maintain.

Why?

I guess I don't have insight into the costs associated with... what? Salaries, marketing, R&D, etc? Was it really that expensive to make the vehicles, that their margins were paper thin?

[WildBillyT]

I don't feel sorry for GM. I feel sorry for guys like Bunkie Knudsen and DeLorean who brought Pontiac to prominence when they transformed it from its jalopy image to the high performance brand that it will be remembered for. Or Jim Wangers who poured his heart and soul into marketing the wide-tracks, GTO and Firebird only to see these dumbasses throw out storied models and replace them with "G" cars and stupid ad campaigns like "Pontiac is CAR." I wonder how many brain cells GM wasted coming up with that.

I work for a marketing research firm and we are pretty much all in agreement that GM's marketing strategies suck balls. For every division.

[LTb1ow]

So how big will the repercussions be if GM falls?

[sweetbmxrider]

... sorry to make this political but it really is all i do...

:moon: :lol:

[WildBillyT]

So how big will the repercussions be if GM falls?

Enough to make millions of people do a collective facepalm, shouting "Why didn't I buy American."