Another PONTIAC story!

[87GTA]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090502/ap_on_re_us/us_pontiac_s_falling_star

[Camaro.Joe.LT1]

Gm can always bring back the Pontiac brand sometime in the future when the economy is strong and there is a demand for modern muscle cars. It is very possible to see its return. I remember when I was in my 20's and thought how cool would it be to build a retro Mustang, Camaro, Trans am etc. I felt the car should look very close to the original. But the car should have all the modern upgrades suspension, engine, drive train, etc. so the car would have the retro looks but present technology. Back in that time people laughed and said that will never happen, car companies want to move forward with design not back. Well just look at the Mustang, Challenger, new Camaro. And if things went as planed Pontiac would have made a retro Trans am modeled after the 77 Bandit style but that didn't happen. Maybe someday. As for the camaro, GM could have done better with styling in my opinion. The Mustang, well ford got it right. The Challenger dodge pegged it, the only problem in my opinion is those huge 20 inch wheels. They just don't look right on that car; 17's would have been the way to go. Save those big 20's for the 300c cars.

[NJSPEEDER]

Some time in the near future GM isn't going to exist any more. Like so many great world brands of the past, most of the General will soon be lost. A few brands may live on as niche marques, but most will be gone.

GM is basically spinning it's wheels at this point and hoping for a miracle. The government is gonna end up owning a chunk of the company at some point which is in no way a good sign. These are the same people who failed to run a whore house for a profit, how can anyone think they can successfully intervene in the auto industry that they half put behind the 8ball in the first place.

[BigAls87Z28]

Pontiac is not a Muscle car brand.
Pontaic's #1 customer is a woman.
Outside of the Firebird, GTO, and G8, there hasnt been a "muscle car" in Pontiacs line up since 74.
Pontiac is dead. It wont come back.

[r0nin89]

I like how they knock the GTO. For the last time someone tell these clowns that insist that car failed that it was slated for a 3year run from the beginning and sold great.

The only thing I'm sad to see go is the g8 and the name.

[PolarBear]

and sold great.

I would like to see some sales numbers. I see leftover GTO's at almost every Pontiac dealer I pass and I know last year Greenbrook sold 3 or 4 of them way under sticker just to get rid of them.
I like the car so I am not knocking it but I dont think it sold all that well, and yeah I knew about its 3 year production run

[cdacda13]

I would like to see some sales numbers. I see leftover GTO's at almost every Pontiac dealer I pass and I know last year Greenbrook sold 3 or 4 of them way under sticker just to get rid of them.
I like the car so I am not knocking it but I dont think it sold all that well, and yeah I knew about its 3 year production run

Total production was 40,808.

[87GTA]

I would like to see some sales numbers. I see leftover GTO's at almost every Pontiac dealer I pass and I know last year Greenbrook sold 3 or 4 of them way under sticker just to get rid of them.
I like the car so I am not knocking it but I dont think it sold all that well, and yeah I knew about its 3 year production run

yeah they did sell pretty well! sold more then the camaro&Firebird in 2002!

[69BirdX]

most people call the Gto the start of the muscle era. sad to see a company that started alot go away

[LS1Hawk]

Pontiac is not a Muscle car brand.

Pontiac WAS a performance brand. It went from a lineup in the 60s with cars like the LeMans, GTO, Catalina 2+2, Firebird and Grand Prix - all performance vehicles relative to their time - to the Gsh*ts of today.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, its been 40 years and they havent made jack.
People get teary eyed about these classic muscle cars when most couldnt out-drag race a Solstice GXP or a Cobalt SS.
Its sad, but Pontiac stopped being relevant and now its just overlap.

[Frosty]

Its sad, but Pontiac stopped being relevant and now its just overlap.

...and there's no one to blame but GM...I mean the Sunfire? The Aztek? The G5? Please....if you want to learn how to run a brand into the ground look up GM/Pontiac.

How many rebadged pieces of crap do they need?

[BonzoHansen]

How many rebadged pieces of crap do they need?And that is why they need less brands.

[Frosty]

And that is why they need less brands.

But they can still keep Pontiac for the G8, Solstice and maybe a high line SUV/minivan.

Pontiac dying is what it is....it's all business but the media and people are looking at Pontiac isn't fair...GM ****ed them, GM didn't give them any type of support aside from the GTO, G8 and Solstice...no wonder their sales sucked ass.

[BigAls87Z28]

Ask the dealer network. In all reality it was just what everyone else was doing. Remember that pontiac is aor was a full line brand. So having compacts suvs and minivans is just like having station wagons etc. Making pontiac into a performance only brand doesn't mean v8 rwd muscle cars only. Now gm not making good cars for the last 20 years or so well that's gms problem.

[LS1Hawk]

I agree. It seems GM just decided years ago that they wanted nothing to do with Pontiac anymore. When you think about it, it is amazing that the brand lasted this long. I really hope GM will do something to commemorate the end of Pontiac, like some special limited edition 2010 model: Firebird, GTO, something. I don't care at this point. Just let it go out on high note.

[Frosty]

I never said it should be a V8 RWD only...give them a turbo AWD car to compete with the ugly ass WRX's, ditch the cheesedick Cobalt and have Pontiac build a FWD car to compete with the Civic Si's and stuff.

People, to this day, still think "ewww" when they hear Pontiac....so even having a performance division probably won't overcome the stigma.

[BonzoHansen]

People, to this day, still think "ewww" when they hear Pontiac....so even having a performance division probably won't overcome the stigma.And the question is answered.

[BigAls87Z28]

Pontiac is gms 2nd best selling car brand but have dropped off big time. They gave pontiac a lot. This is the best line pontiac has had in a long time. That could be said for all of gm. If nothing excites you now to buy from pontiac or gm now then you shouldn't be too sad.

[Frosty]

And the question is answered.

Pretty much....and that's GM's fault...that's what I'm mad about....I'm actually hoping the entire company crumbles....I actually hope The Messiah, ahem...excuse me, Obama says F YOU and pulls all funding and lets these idiots fend for themselves. The government is going to own a HUGE chunk of GM after all is said and done(even though he says he wants nothing to do with owning a car company). I'm sorry but I'm through with seeing my tax dollars support ******* companies and a corrupt and worthless union. You mark my words...if GM comes out of this OK and doesn't file any bankruptcy you WILL see the UAW gain strength in the long run.

[BigAls87Z28]

I never said it should be a V8 RWD only...give them a turbo AWD car to compete with the ugly ass WRX's, ditch the cheesedick Cobalt and have Pontiac build a FWD car to compete with the Civic Si's and stuff.

People, to this day, still think "ewww" when they hear Pontiac....so even having a performance division probably won't overcome the stigma.

I thi k you are way wrong on that. First off you either want sales or you want performance. Cobalt out sells the impreza and I'd say that the ss out sells the WRX. Saturn has the astra a true worl cass compact ad no one bought it. Poor marketing or damaged brand?

[Frosty]

Pontiac is gms 2nd best selling car brand but have dropped off big time. They gave pontiac a lot. This is the best line pontiac has had in a long time. That could be said for all of gm. If nothing excites you now to buy from pontiac or gm now then you shouldn't be too sad.

Ok, NOW they have some decent cars(G8, Solstice, the G6 is decent) but a few years doesn't make up for decades of boring cars.

It's almost like GM has the attitude of "Ok, we're making good cars now after 20yrs of ****...we're good now...really".

[Frosty]

I thi k you are way wrong on that. First off you either want sales or you want performance. Cobalt out sells the impreza and I'd say that the ss out sells the WRX. Saturn has the astra a true worl cass compact ad no one bought it. Poor marketing or damaged brand?

...and overall sales doesn't mean much if you can barely muck a buck off of said product, no?

I'd like to see some sales numbers of SS's vs WRX. Now granted I can only go by what I see with my own eyes I'd say in this area WRX trumps the SS by over 2 to 1.

[LS1Hawk]

IMO, the GTO could have saved Pontiac. But they were too quick to rush it to the market in 03 and didn't take the time to listen to buyers or sit down with focus groups to develop a car that people really wanted. It was a great car, but didn't have the impact it should have. Done right, the GTO would have been Pontiac's renaissance.

[Frosty]

You think so? I don't know...one car that was slated for a 3yr run can't save a car company IMO.

I personally don't get all excited about the GTO, I think they're over-hyped but what did GM do so horribly wrong that went against what people wanted?

[BigAls87Z28]

Make it look like an old one. That's it. GTO outsold ls1 trans ams year after year.
Gtot wouldn't save ****. A really good G6 would. That with a really good G5. GTO might have been a good halo var but hats I.
Problem is that you can't make three really good cars with a budget that car hardly support two.

[BigAls87Z28]

Looking at sales numbers the cobalt sold over ten thousand. Impreza was three. I'd say its a safe bet that the ss out sells the wrx.

[NJSPEEDER]

Well, its been 40 years and they havent made jack.
People get teary eyed about these classic muscle cars when most couldnt out-drag race a Solstice GXP or a Cobalt SS.
Its sad, but Pontiac stopped being relevant and now its just overlap.

The overlap and loss of image of the brand is a mess that GM created. How do you hand a brand the title of "Excitement Division" then stop advertising and racing it?

They screwed the pooch and it all started a long time ago. Just took a while for the sum total of the mess to get noticed or become important enough for them to bother doing anything about. Now that time is at hand and it is way too late.

GM made the mess and soon they won't be a company of any kind anymore. Congrats to them for making a mess of every individual brands image to the point that they are all meaningless in the broader market.

[BigAls87Z28]

When was the last time pontiac went racing? They didn't start racing till recently with the gto in formula drift and rolex. The with solstice and g6. And they won races! Sales kept dropping.
They did better with fwd w bodies, minivans and sunfires. Again this the best line up from an enthusiast point of view then ever before. You don't to buy a pontiac now then you were never gonna buy one.

[PolarBear]

Pontiac WAS a performance brand. It went from a lineup in the 60s with cars like the LeMans, GTO, Catalina 2+2, Firebird and Grand Prix - all performance vehicles relative to their time - to the Gsh*ts of today.

What (not sure you do or not) most people do not realize is these cars did not start out to be "muscle cars". They became what people made them out to be. Car comanies like Pontiac need more reagular cars to support one or maybe two performance cars.
Unfortunately I agree with the statements that Pontiac has been dead for quite some time. Gm really has been competing with its self with the re-badging off other platforms Pontiac hasnt been showing any excitement for a while, really the only thing they got from rebadging were some luxury upgrades that were standard that may have been upgrades on other vehicles.

I for one will TRUELY miss Pontiac as an owner of 4 of them and wanting at least 2 of the current/upcoming vehicles.

[LS1Hawk]

You think so? I don't know...one car that was slated for a 3yr run can't save a car company IMO.

I personally don't get all excited about the GTO, I think they're over-hyped but what did GM do so horribly wrong that went against what people wanted?

When they brought the GTO to the market, both Bob Lutz and I can't remember her name, but some female executive within Pontiac said the GTO would be Pontiac's flagship and stand as an example of the direction in design the brand would take. From my understanding, the Monaro the GTO was based off of was a design going back to 1997. Shouldn't design be new and fresh, not 6 years old? I think that went against what people wanted. Even if it was only intended to be around for 3 years, they could have really nailed the design and said this is sign of things to come at Pontiac.

[BigAls87Z28]

The GTO took a very popular Monaro coupe and brought it here with a few modifications.

If GM were to make it Retro, it would cost GM millions of dollars and we would probably have seen the GTO probably around last year. Problem is, that the VY/VZ chassis wasnt making it past 06.
So GM took a great performance coupe, gave it twin kidney's and dropped it off in America.

The GTO was the direction that Pontiac wanted to go. Maybe not design wise, but in execution wise, yes. G8 carries the same execution.