Suspension question(drag launch)

[MIKES NOTCH]

whats the difference between the suspension on 93-97 cars to 98-02 cars? im talking strut and shock wise...everywhere i look, eibach only offers drag launch for 93-97

[WildBillyT]

As far as I know most of the parts are the same. I know that spring rates are different due to the LT1 being heavier. That is probably why they list it as 93-97.

[MIKES NOTCH]

how much less does the ls1 weigh compared to the lt1? cant be more than 100lbs...

[Mike]

i believe the consensus is that the eibach drag springs are junk........."decent" on the track, but completely useless on the street, i actually got that directly from an eibach tech support guy.

i have had my best results with stock rear springs and upgraded shocks, and if you want the lower look, take out the rear isolator

[LTb1ow]

For the 1996 LT1 and 1996 LT4:

LT1 Mass: 785.3 lbs (356.2 kg)
LT4 Mass: 1003.5 lbs (455.2 kg)

For the 2001 LS1 and 2001 LS6:

LS1 Total Dressed Engine Weight: Auto. - 457.6 lbs. (208 kg); Manual - 497.2 lbs (226 kg)
LS6 Total Dressed Engine Weight: (Manual only) - 497.2 lbs (226 kg)

Edit: I don't like those numbers, but bascially a 100* difference LT1/LS1

[Mike]

holy crap, snm those are just engine and trans weights for the ltX's?

[MIKES NOTCH]

cbrmike...ive ran eibach before and the do suck..im looking for a single rate drag spring...any suggestions?


shownomercy....wow what a difference..

[LTb1ow]

Eh, I am not sure, I just did a quick search. The LT4 weight is with the ZF tranny from the vette so its heavier than a T56/A4.

[MIKES NOTCH]

still...didnt realize the lt1 was so porky.

[Mike]

still...didnt realize the lt1 was so porky.

iron block vs aluminum, and apparently some accessories are heavier, because thats a major difference

[LTb1ow]

Iron block compared to an aluminum block, should be a huge difference...

[Mike]

cbrmike...ive ran eibach before and the do suck..im looking for a single rate drag spring...any suggestions?..

i spent a bunch of time looking for the same info on ls1tech's drag section, and from what i can find, people either stick with stock springs, or switch to oem v6 springs.......or spend the big bucks and do the rear coil over conversion. but there are quite a few very fast cars on oem rear springs.

the tq arm angle, lca angle and tires have a LOT bigger affect on 60' than a spring swap.

[WildBillyT]

still...didnt realize the lt1 was so porky.

It isn't. I was looking that stuff up and saw that same page he was looking at. Those have to be fully dressed w/the trans or something. A fully dressed big block with iron heads and an aluminum intake is around 650 lbs.

[MIKES NOTCH]

yea, guess i underestimated ALOT.

[LTb1ow]

Don't you want the rear to plant the tires not squat?

Wouldn't V6 springs make it squat more?

[sweetbmxrider]

the fronts are coilovers

i believe the v6 springs allow the body to pull up thus pushing the rear harder into the ground. i was reading a little into it last night so don't hold me to it. i hear adjustable qa1's all around with stock springs works well. also, like mike said, correctly setting up the rear geometry and a good tire helps the best.

[MIKES NOTCH]

u wanna get the front up and the back end planted..a softer spring in the fron would help the car transfer the weight to the back but u also need a strut to keep the front end up. too bad they dont make lakewood struts and shocks for these cars. all i can seem to find are adjustables...i have no knowledge on them

[sweetbmxrider]

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1993-1997-GM-F-Body/Suspension/Rear-Coil-Over-Kits/

[LTb1ow]

Thats not to bad of a price, welding is required though right?

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah you weld the plate into the body. definitely something i am looking into though. you need the adjustability on all 4 corners if you really want to dial it in. and with rear coilovers, you can stick an airbag where the stock spring goes on the right side for help with the launch. that or a drag sway bar.

[MIKES NOTCH]

race car stuff right there

[sweetbmxrider]

i like to think i own one :laugh:

[Tru2Chevy]

too bad they dont make lakewood struts and shocks for these cars.

The 3rd gen rear shocks will bolt right in on any 4th gen, not sure how close the valving would be though.

- Justin

[MIKES NOTCH]

ill prob stick with the stockers.. different struts, shocks, no front sway bar

[NJ Torque]

i too am looking for these answers....

what will get the front wheels to pull off the ground...?

[Mike]

i too am looking for these answers....

what will get the front wheels to pull off the ground...?

mine pulls them with my setup and a stock motor

[NJ Torque]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/lehighvalley1/l_6d7d68aacc30632e5e4001b9594e9f23l.jpg

thats the best i've gotten with stock springs/struts... with just tubular lca's and a umi tubular stock replacment tq arm.

[Mike]

still have your front sway bar?

[NJ Torque]

still have your front sway bar?


yes, as well as stock rear

[MIKES NOTCH]

drop the front sway bar, leave the back one on. u need a strut that will throw the front end up fast and slowly let itself back down. i run all drag suspensions on my mustangs and 90/10 lakewood struts are the best..too bad they dont make em for fbodys. u might find a good adjustable to accomplish wut u want..stock struts suck for drag racing..as soon as the go up the come right back down

[NJ Torque]

yeah, i run 90/10's in my buick... just dont know what people run in an fbody...

[sweetbmxrider]

don't they run qa1's all around? i just think a fully adjustable coilover in the front is your best bet, not sure on the spring weight though

[lilredjeep91]

well going on with what everyone is talking about here i have a question about my set up, i have lakewood 50/50's is rear with tube lcas, stock springs and tq arm and stock up in the front and still have both swap bars, my question is what else could i do to get the best 60 foot and best set up for drag ?

[sweetbmxrider]

whats your 60' and what tires and wheels are you running and psi?

[lilredjeep91]

the last time i went to the track it was a 2.0 60 foot with bold 275/40/17 with 18psi on y2k vette wheels but now i have brand new htr-z 275/40/17 still on the y2k vette wheels but i havent been back to the track yet with the new tires.

[sweetbmxrider]

see what it does in comparison to the old 60' first before throwin parts at it. i am not familiar with those tires so i can't really give any tips there. your best bet is to remove weight off of the front and transfer the weight rearward. adjustable front coilovers will help this. being an m6 though, i would say seat time and launching practice will help your 60' the best.

[NJ Torque]

1.62 60' with MT ET street radials... 275/40/17

[HeadlessNorseman]

Just for the record, 4th gens dont have any struts. tubular LCAs and good bushings will help a lot. The stock ones are quite flimsy. On my monte carlo just welding plates over the stamped LCAs made a huge difference. What is the deal with disconnecting your sway bars? what does that do aside from make your car more dangerous to drive? They dont have any front to back load on them. Adjustable torque arm mount would help too if you can adjust the height at the front. I dont know if such a part exists. The torque arm/lca design is a pretty good design. Lots of weight transfer ability with the right geometry

[Mike]

Just for the record, 4th gens dont have any struts. tubular LCAs and good bushings will help a lot. The stock ones are quite flimsy. On my monte carlo just welding plates over the stamped LCAs made a huge difference. What is the deal with disconnecting your sway bars? what does that do aside from make your car more dangerous to drive? They dont have any front to back load on them. Adjustable torque arm mount would help too if you can adjust the height at the front. I dont know if such a part exists. The torque arm/lca design is a pretty good design. Lots of weight transfer ability with the right geometry

yes, they do, struts in the front, shocks in the rear

[Formulalt1]

For the 1996 LT1 and 1996 LT4:

LT1 Mass: 785.3 lbs (356.2 kg)
LT4 Mass: 1003.5 lbs (455.2 kg)

For the 2001 LS1 and 2001 LS6:

LS1 Total Dressed Engine Weight: Auto. - 457.6 lbs. (208 kg); Manual - 497.2 lbs (226 kg)
LS6 Total Dressed Engine Weight: (Manual only) - 497.2 lbs (226 kg)

Edit: I don't like those numbers, but bascially a 100* difference LT1/LS1

http://www.lt1engine.com/tech/camaro-firebird-f-body-weight/

Edit- Don't know how accurate this is cause I just found this as well http://www.bfranker.badz28.com/fbody/weights.htm .

I do know that a auto LT1 with all accessorys on, in 4 bolt version weighs roughly 565lbs (and the 4 bolt block is slightly heavier than the 2 bolt). Bought a 93 Ybody complete engine and it was put on the scale at the yard before it was loaded into my truck.

[Tru2Chevy]

What is the deal with disconnecting your sway bars? what does that do aside from make your car more dangerous to drive? They dont have any front to back load on them.

Disconnecting the front sway bar allows the front suspension to droop down further and / or faster, which will help weight transfer to the rear of the car. Also if you elect to take it off completely it's a few more pounds off the nose of the car which never hurts either ;)

- Justin

[Pampered-Z]

i too am looking for these answers....

what will get the front wheels to pull off the ground...?

Lots of RPMs and traction!


Just FYI, you need the rear to squat and stay planted, so you really want the double adjustable shocks to control compression and rebound.

On the front you want the shocks to extend and stay extended/compress slowly. For the rear you want then to compress and come up/rebound slowly.

Basically, compression plants the tires, rebound (or lack of) keeps them planted. On the initial hit the front lift and the rear drops = plants the tires, when the rear shocks rebound ( lift the body back up to original ride hieght ) it needs to be controls or at the top of rebound the inertia works to lift the tires off the surface. If you don't control rebound the car is basically rocking fron to back. So even if you plant the tires at the line after a few feet you start spinning. The air bag in the spring is used to prevent the car twisting side to side which causes the driver's side tire to loose traction. The amount of air is minimal or you are just adding rebound.

If you can adjust your shocks to be firm for street driving you won't notice the sway bar missing. I have the SLP suspension with revalved Blistens and no sway bar, the car handles fine, but I don't do any high speed turns.

[Mike]

What is the deal with disconnecting your sway bars? what does that do aside from make your car more dangerous to drive? They dont have any front to back load on them.

Not both, just the front, and unless your taking exits like a f1 driver its not extremely noticeable. i never had any problems driving with no front sway bar either in my current setup or with my old setup lowered with 17s.

Adjustable torque arm mount would help too if you can adjust the height at the front. I dont know if such a part exists. The torque arm/lca design is a pretty good design. Lots of weight transfer ability with the right geometry

you don't want to change the height of the front of the tq arm, you use the adjustments in the rear to change the pinion angle of the rear.

[HeadlessNorseman]

yes, they do, struts in the front, shocks in the rear

They are just coil over shocks, struts handle the lateral load too. they have an upper control arm for that

[JerzLT1]

so its clear. what shocks (other then switching to QA1s) does everyone reccomend for drag racing

[sweetbmxrider]

fully adjustable....

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

As far as I know most of the parts are the same. I know that spring rates are different due to the LT1 being heavier. That is probably why they list it as 93-97.

The part numbers are different but I did some research over on tech about LS1 guys using LT1 springs and vica versa and the stance was perfect...Guess the 30-40 pds doesnt make a huge difference in the spring rate.

[cdubbzz]

For std weight LS1 Fbody
QA1 12 ways all around
300# front springs (I believe stock is 292#)
160-180# rear springs

For LT1 car go with 325# or a lighter car go with 275#

this is assuming you have an aftermarket torque arm and other
common suspension pieces