Gm changed their mind on the G8....

[Blacdout96]

http://www.fquick.com/blog/Oh_WTF__Now_Lutz_says_G8_will_not_become_Caprice/3111

Discuss...

[sweetbmxrider]

aw man!

[fire95bird]

OK kids your going to get some candy soon.....oh wait no, never mind

[BonzoHansen]

CEO said no from what I read.

[Jersey Mike]

CEO said no from what I read.

boo that man

[Blacdout96]

/\

:lol: :lol:

[NJ346]

from my understanding, the G8 was a lot like the GTO when it came to sales, Americans simply didn't buy it. With GM in the financial state it's in, the G8 probably wouldn't bring them the profit they want....but the same could be said about the volt, I don't think GM will be making a cent on them.

[JL8Jeff]

CEO said no from what I read.

Obama said no? :wink:

[BonzoHansen]

G8 sales have been going up the past few months.

[madness410]

i got one word..WTF

[BonzoHansen]

He got his hand slapped. I can't find the article where the CEO said "well he works for me".

JULY 17, 2009 WSJ
GM's Lutz Makes Another U-Turn

DETROIT -- General Motors Co. marketing chief Bob Lutz reversed course Thursday, saying the company wouldn't keep the Pontiac G8 sedan in its model line by turning it into a Chevrolet after all.

Mr. Lutz said Monday that GM, which is phasing out the Pontiac brand as part of its restructuring, would continue offering the rear-wheel-drive sports car in the U.S. but would sell it as the Chevrolet Caprice.

A day later, GM Chief Executive Frederick "Fritz" Henderson told reporters such a move was unlikely.

On Thursday, Mr. Lutz wrote on GM's "Fast Lane" blog that GM had been studying the idea of selling the G8 as the Chevrolet Caprice "because a car like the G8 was just too good to waste."

But he added that "upon further review and careful study, we simply cannot make a business case for such a program. Not in today's market, in this economy, and with fuel regulations what they are and will be."

The reversal suggests Mr. Henderson hasn't yet worked out all the kinks in the new, leaner GM, which emerged from bankruptcy protection on July 10. As part of the company's reorganization, Mr. Henderson is eliminating a number of senior executives' positions and shuffling his staff.

Mr. Lutz, who is 77 years old and led GM's vehicle development efforts until earlier this year, was set to retire but came back to head marketing and communications in the reorganized company. In Detroit circles, he is sometimes referred to as "Mr. Horsepower" because of his love of big, powerful cars like the G8.

The G8 was designed and built by GM's Australia unit and arrived in the U.S. market 15 months ago. With a sticker price of about $28,000 and gasoline prices high, it got off to a slow start. But this year, sales have jumped. Average monthly sales through June increased 57% to 2,615 from about 1,660 G8s a month in the first nine months of sales.

If GM sold 2600 G8s a month they'd sell more G8s in a year than probably the 04-06 GTOs combined.

[bobb1589]

G8 sales have been going up the past few months.

probably because they are giving them away pretty cheap...i test drove one with my friend and his dad and the salesman offered it to him at some ridiculously low number

[BonzoHansen]

local dealer is advertising a gxp ~35,000

[CamaroJoe1987]

local dealer is advertising a gxp ~35,000

mmmmmmmmm FTW!

[edpontiac91]

IMO the G8 GT is one of the finest cars GM has EVER come out with. It has style, power, performance and handling unlike ANYTHING I have ever driven. My son Darren has his 2008 GT (with a few mods) that sounds like a GTO, rides like a BMW and performs like muscle car of old. If I had that $35,000 to buy a 2009 GXP, I would do so in a heartbeat (sorry Chevy). Miller Pontiac has a Liquid Red GXP parked outside their showroom and it looks fantastic with those wheels. I can just imagine what a modded GXP would run like (mid 12's)would be a good estimate. Just when GM gets it right, they seem to shoot themselves in the foot and kill it. The Fiero started out as a piece of crap, but by 1988 they had it right and stopped production that year. If anyone has ever seen what the restyled 1989 Fiero was to look it, it was one hella of sharp looking sports car. LONG LIVE THE G8!

[sweetbmxrider]

i got one word..WTF

is that one word? in fact, is that even a word at all? :rofl:

[Jersey Mike]

i got one word..WTF

pronounce that word for me, if you could, please

[NJ346]

If GM sold 2600 G8s a month they'd sell more G8s in a year than probably the 04-06 GTOs combined.

Total GTO sales for 04-06 was 40,808. G8 is nowhere near that. G8 is a great car, just americans aren't buying it. The 57% in sales isn't much when you think of last years sales of under 2,000 a month. Selling G8's at 2600 a month steadily would still only put production at about 31,000 a year...that wasn't enough to keep the f-body a live...so what has changed now other than the economy is worse?

[Blackbirdws6]

IMO the G8 GT is one of the finest cars GM has EVER come out with. I has style, power, performance and handling unlike ANYTHING I have ever driven. My son Darren has his 2008 GT (with a few mods) that sounds like a GTO, rides like a BMW and performs like muscle car of old. If I had that $35,000 to buy a 2009 GXP, I would do so in a heartbeat (sorry Chevy). Miller Pontiac has a Liquid Red GXP parked outside their showroom and it looks fantastic with those wheels. I can just imagine what a modded GXP would run like (mid 12's)would be a good estimate. Just when GM gets it right, they seem to shoot themselves in the foot and kill it. The Fiero started out as a piece of crap, but by 1988 they had it right and stopped production that year. If anyone has ever seen what the restyled 1989 Fiero was to look it, it was one hella of sharp looking sports car. LONG LIVE THE G8!

I've checked out this car. If I didn't love my IOM and the payment jump was a bit more reasonable, I may have traded up.

[NastyEllEssWon]

gm loves not making money

[Blacdout96]

Where's BigAl to put his 2 cents in? :lol:

[BonzoHansen]

Total GTO sales for 04-06 was 40,808. G8 is nowhere near that. G8 is a great car, just americans aren't buying it. The 57% in sales isn't much when you think of last years sales of under 2,000 a month. Selling G8's at 2600 a month steadily would still only put production at about 31,000 a year...that wasn't enough to keep the f-body a live...so what has changed now other than the economy is worse?Everything has changed.

GTO vs. G8 is really apples to oranges. Assuming a continuing trend of 2600 a month it is nearly as many GTOs built in 3 years (thanks for proving my math, lol). You cannot look at sales from 8/08-5/09 because the whole industry just about stopped, total collapse. And it is not ripping now and won’t be anytime soon. So I think that jump is pretty impressive and may very indicative of the potential of this car. Yes, it is one month, my point was simply it is catching on and gets great mainstream press. I know a lot of folks ask me about it. Killing this car seems really stupid.

Are 31,200 G8s annually enough? Not sure, but as things get better I’d expect that 2600 to continue go up if not for the demise of PMD. The auto business, both GM and industry wide, is very different now than 2002. Expected total sales are projected to be down 20%+ across the industry for the next few years. And GMs footprint is much smaller than before, as well as their capital structure – this is huge, really. So selling 35,000 cars may be a much more viable situation now. Plus it is generally accepted the Camaro died for other reasons as well so no comparison there either.

[BurninrubberGT]

from my understanding, the G8 was a lot like the GTO when it came to sales, Americans simply didn't buy it. With GM in the financial state it's in, the G8 probably wouldn't bring them the profit they want....but the same could be said about the volt, I don't think GM will be making a cent on them.

gm actually hit their mark for how many g8's they wanted to sell, so it actually did sell well, it was never meant to be a big production car


local dealer is advertising a gxp ~35,000
anyone want to loan me 35k? please? haha

[NJ346]

gm actually hit their mark for how many g8's they wanted to sell, so it actually did sell well, it was never meant to be a big production car


That's why earlier this year GM cut their production for the first 6 months of the 09 G8 from 10,000 units to well under that.....right:rofl:

[BonzoHansen]

That's why earlier this year GM cut their production for the first 6 months of the 09 G8 from 10,000 units to 1,000.....right:rofl:

they cut everything. hell for a while they cut almost all production.

[NJ346]

they cut everything. hell for a while they cut almost all production.

but to cut a reported almost 97%(going off of facts on the internet)...c'mon...Gm obviously saw they weren't selling.

[Blacdout96]

97% would be 300 cars, thats like 1.64 cars a day if they only made that many over 6 months, thats 10 x's slower then what ferrari does.....so maybe thats why they are such nice cars, they actually took their time on them? ;)

Even if it was 1,000 cars over 6 months, that would be 5/12 cars a day.

[BonzoHansen]

but to cut a reported almost 97%(going off of facts on the internet)...c'mon...Gm obviously saw they weren't selling.

they totally stopped making trucks at one point, and 1/2 of what they sell are trucks. nothing was selling.

[The Fixer]

Everything has changed.

<snip>

The auto business, both GM and industry wide, is very different now than 2002. Expected total sales are projected to be down 20%+ across the industry for the next few years. And GMs footprint is much smaller than before, as well as their capital structure – this is huge, really.

Agreed. A lot of this is to blame on the gluttony of Americans that "need" to have a new car every 2-3 years when their lease is up. The automakers have been building more cars than we really needed for a few years now, and it's finally caught up to them. Now there is a ton of used cars on the market, and a decent amount of brand new '08's and '09's still sitting around. I also think a lot of this has to do with the depreciation of a new car, and how much you shell out for it in the beginning. If you spend 35K on a brand new vehicle, and then it's worth 15K in 3 years, that sucks! Personally, I just wait until the car is a few years old and buy it at it's greatly reduced price, because the reality is the price of all these cars is inflated (IMO).

For example, my 2001 Cherokee stickered for somewhere around $20-21K. I bought it in 2005 with 48K miles on it for just under $11K. So, the original owner lost about $10-12K on that car in 4 years, because you know the dealer didn't give him $11K on it as a trade. I think I should be able to sell it this winter (demand is up for 4WD in winter) for around $7K. So, in the 4 years that I've owned it, it's only depreciated 4K. That's a helluva lot better deal IMO.

[Frosty]

Comrade Fritz is a douche and nothing more than a puppet.

[LS1Hawk]

He got his hand slapped. I can't find the article where the CEO said "well he works for me".

Yeah, Fritz just made Lutz his bitch. Bring on the shower caps and ass spanking!

[BurninrubberGT]

That's why earlier this year GM cut their production for the first 6 months of the 09 G8 from 10,000 units to well under that.....right:rofl:

why would you produce cars for a company that is going to be shut down?

[r0nin89]

Wait wait wait.

I thought that the g8 not getting brought over to chevy was all based on the fact that part of the Government Motors bailout moved rules into play about mileage restrictions and forbid imported rebadging??????

[Frosty]

Wait wait wait.

I thought that the g8 not getting brought over to chevy was all based on the fact that part of the Government Motors bailout moved rules into play about mileage restrictions and forbid imported rebadging??????

That was part of the agreement(the imported part) which is why I thought it was odd that the G8 was still alive(****ing UAW). Oh well, got excited over nothing. :(

[BigAls87Z28]

from my understanding, the G8 was a lot like the GTO when it came to sales, Americans simply didn't buy it. With GM in the financial state it's in, the G8 probably wouldn't bring them the profit they want....but the same could be said about the volt, I don't think GM will be making a cent on them.

Eh, yes and no. GTO didnt sell well till they put the LS2 in there. 04's were the worst in sales.
G8 doesnt bring in much profit at all, with the exchange rate cutting any and all out. The only thing that the G8 does is keep the Elizabeth plant active with another shift.
G8's are selling very well now, because people dont like spending 30k for a Pontiac.
And no, the Volt wont make any money for GM for a while.

Total GTO sales for 04-06 was 40,808. G8 is nowhere near that. G8 is a great car, just americans aren't buying it. The 57% in sales isn't much when you think of last years sales of under 2,000 a month. Selling G8's at 2600 a month steadily would still only put production at about 31,000 a year...that wasn't enough to keep the f-body a live...so what has changed now other than the economy is worse?

Over 40 years, 40k units.
G8 has only one year of sales, and they sold 15k in aprox a year. And the trend was coming up.

That's why earlier this year GM cut their production for the first 6 months of the 09 G8 from 10,000 units to well under that.....right:rofl:

While GM cut a lot of plants to save money, Holdens plants were at full swing from what I can remember.


but to cut a reported almost 97%(going off of facts on the internet)...c'mon...Gm obviously saw they weren't selling.

No...no such thing happend. Actually as things got worse in the market, G8 sales started going up. It bucked the trend.

Wait wait wait.

I thought that the g8 not getting brought over to chevy was all based on the fact that part of the Government Motors bailout moved rules into play about mileage restrictions and forbid imported rebadging??????

um...there are no rules for "Goverment Motors". The rules are one thing: make money.
Its not to build green cars
Its not to build cars that people dont want
Its not to build cars that get 50mpg and everything else is getting junked.

In fact, the Auto Task Force were climbing all over the CTS-V coupe preproduction car, along with apparently the Z28, and several other very cool cars coming out of GM, all designed, developed and moved foward BEFORE "goverment motors."

The MPG rules were set up by Bush, and redefined and reconfigured by Obama. Bush had a rule that all cars and trucks must have a combined MPG of 35 by 2014. Never before have the cars and trucks been combined.
Obama came in and adjusted it with the cars getting 35.5 and trucks in the mid 20s.
GM can do that very easily now that trucks dont have to get an average of 35mpg as well.
As for the imported part, GM can import X amount of vehicles.

The goverement, ie us, is an investor in GM Co.

[Frosty]

Al, the UAW forced GM agree not to import any vehicles over in the bankruptcy agreement. The ironic thing is that the G8 is nicer than half the cars the overpaid, scumbag UAW schleps in Detroit make.

[87GTA]

Just when GM gets it right, they seem to shoot themselves in the foot and kill it. The Fiero started out as a piece of crap, but by 1988 they had it right and stopped production that year. If anyone has ever seen what the restyled 1989 Fiero was to look it, it was one hella of sharp looking sports car.!

you mean this one!!!

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/knight2000_2008/1990fiaro.jpg

[edpontiac91]

THAT PHOTO WOULD BE IT. If you look at it from that angle, it looks like a 1993 Firebird. Tell me that would not have been some hot car.

[HeadlessNorseman]

THAT PHOTO WOULD BE IT. If you look at it from that angle, it looks like a 1993 Firebird. Tell me that would not have been some hot car.

the fiero would have been better if they based the suspension/chassis off of something a little tougher than the chevette or whatever they used. Maybe something like f body front end and front end from a bigger v6 car for the back. just my opinion. fiero is still extra cool though

[edpontiac91]

By 1988 they had stopped using the Chevette steering and suspension. It was all new and they had planned on using a variable electronic power steering for 1989, along with a bigger V/6 and a completely new body design. All the tools were in place, but because of "POOR" sales (the crap they tried to sell to the public before the 1988 redo) it was killed. Buick tried to resurface part of it with the Reatta, but that also failed due to the bad write-ups from the Fiero.

[HeadlessNorseman]

By 1988 they had stopped using the Chevette steering and suspension. It was all new and they had planned on using a variable electronic power steering for 1989, along with a bigger V/6 and a completely new body design. All the tools were in place, but because of "POOR" sales (the crap they tried to sell to the public before the 1988 redo) it was killed. Buick tried to resurface part of it with the Reatta, but that also failed due to the bad write-ups from the Fiero.

Ah i didnt know that. I would still like to get a later model fiero gt one day. I love that body style. Would also be nice with a 350 swap :mrgreen: But i think the solstice/sky is a pretty good fiero rebirth, even if FR layout. At least they bothered with a 2 seat small car again

[edpontiac91]

Ah i didnt know that. I would still like to get a later model fiero gt one day. I love that body style. Would also be nice with a 350 swap :mrgreen: But i think the solstice/sky is a pretty good fiero rebirth, even if FR layout. At least they bothered with a 2 seat small car again

One of the best swaps for this car is the Cadillac Northstar V/8. It drops in like it was made for the Fiero and is one of the cleanest swaps I have ever seen. No cutting the body up or anything, but I think they had to modify the hood hinges just a little.

[BigAls87Z28]

Fiero actually soold very well in 86 and 87, and the 88's did really well.

[Savage_Messiah]

you mean this one!!!

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/knight2000_2008/1990fiaro.jpg

that looks like the bastard spawn of a lt1 bird, a miata and a sunfire.

[HeadlessNorseman]

that looks like the bastard spawn of a lt1 bird, a miata and a sunfire.

I think it looks like an NSX a little bit. Pretty cool but i like the original fiero gt better

[madness410]

Agreed. A lot of this is to blame on the gluttony of Americans that "need" to have a new car every 2-3 years when their lease is up. The automakers have been building more cars than we really needed for a few years now, and it's finally caught up to them. Now there is a ton of used cars on the market, and a decent amount of brand new '08's and '09's still sitting around. I also think a lot of this has to do with the depreciation of a new car, and how much you shell out for it in the beginning. If you spend 35K on a brand new vehicle, and then it's worth 15K in 3 years, that sucks! Personally, I just wait until the car is a few years old and buy it at it's greatly reduced price, because the reality is the price of all these cars is inflated (IMO).

For example, my 2001 Cherokee stickered for somewhere around $20-21K. I bought it in 2005 with 48K miles on it for just under $11K. So, the original owner lost about $10-12K on that car in 4 years, because you know the dealer didn't give him $11K on it as a trade. I think I should be able to sell it this winter (demand is up for 4WD in winter) for around $7K. So, in the 4 years that I've owned it, it's only depreciated 4K. That's a helluva lot better deal IMO.

definately well stated and a great example given...which is why i want to wait a few years to buy a 5th gen :-)