Pin on Vs. Bolt on Hood

[KirkEvil]

Im looking at the 3" SS hoods by VFN. I kind of want to get a pin on hood to delete the latch nonsense up front for a custom air box, and its a decent weight difference from the bolt on (~11 lbs.).

Anyway, has anyone had regrets going to a pin on hood for a DD?

Looks like this...
http://www.vfnfiberglass.com/02cuscam.jpg

[KirkEvil]

no stealing

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mrg-1472.jpg

[transmaro93]

cool for a race car... but for a street car... ehh... do you really want 4 pins sticking out of your hood... kind of an eyesore... but looks cool on a 8 sec race car that getting trailored everywhere... if you catch my drift... other than that though i dont see why it would be a big deal other than youll need 2 people every time you want to pop your hood... unless you dont care about scratching it or your fenders... just some things to think about

[1QWIKBIRD]

Dzus buttons to the rescue, but you still will need an extra set of hands to get the hood off. Do people really steal hoods and stuff anymore? I thought they just took the whole damn car?

[sweetbmxrider]

i'd do a pin on, wouldn't do it myself though.

[jts98z28]

arent pin ons a lil cheaper?...id do it i think they look sick

[BonzoHansen]

Pin on can get real old fast. 4th gen hoods aren't that big so you can probably take it on & off yourself w/o issue, but still, one slip and something is getting scratched. You can find 11 pounds somewhere else.

Or just make more HP. :)

[jts98z28]

Pin on can get real old fast. 4th gen hoods aren't that big so you can probably take it on & off yourself w/o issue, but still, one slip and something is getting scratched. You can find 11 pounds somewhere else.

Or just make more HP. :)

thats where im lucky cause my paint looks like **** so it doesnt matter if it wood get scratched lol....and im broke as **** so i take weight out rather than make more power....poor mans way to go faster imo

[BonzoHansen]

But KirkEvil's car is nice.

[LTb1ow]

Pin on can get real old fast. 4th gen hoods aren't that big so you can probably take it on & off yourself w/o issue, but still, one slip and something is getting scratched. You can find 11 pounds somewhere else.

Or just make more HP. :)

You need to hear his big plan for that area... he wants to ditch the latch badly... :wink:

[KirkEvil]

The weight wasnt really that big of a deal. Personally I like the bolt on hood because it is structurally braced better. My main concern is to get rid of the latch assembly to build an air box.

I guess my new question should be how hard is it to modify a bolt on hood to attach with hood pins in the front only? Do pin on hoods come with the pin holes pre-drilled?

[BonzoHansen]

Probably not, I've never seen one pre-drilled. But maybe.

[KirkEvil]

Do pin on hoods have extra bracing around where the pin holes should be drilled?

[BonzoHansen]

Not really sure, you might need to contact manufacturers. None of them are real strong (not the ones I've seen). They aren't really made for DD use.

[jts98z28]

my brothers hood on his beater stopped opening so he put pins in the front of his stock hood and they supposedly work good

[KirkEvil]

Its not hard to drill through a stock metal hood. Drilling holes in fiberglass is what Im concerned with.

[LTb1ow]

Its not hard to drill through a stock metal hood. Drilling holes in fiberglass is what Im concerned with.

Easy enough, sharp bit, and a steady hand.

[NJ Torque]

I wouldnt do pin on... just my opinion.

[sweetbmxrider]

plenty of guys put pin ons on stock hoods. go to a car show.

[mc73nova]

If the pin on will help you obtain your goal for an airbox, go for it. So what its your DD, how many times do you actually pop your hood? Unless you are having car troubles in which case I would fix those before buying a hood! I have a pin on and can man it by myself no problem and if your body lines are good you shouldnt have any problems worrying about scratching your fenders. I have had both and I didnt mind either one, pin ons are better for when you need to work on your car and normally that happens at home or at the track. As far as security, those locks you posted will do fine, besides if someone wants to steal something bad enough it doesnt matter if its bolted or pinned on.

[Pampered-Z]

Issue I can think of:

SOME pin-ons are pretty thin and you need two people to remove them or they'll flex so bad you crack/peel the paint off.

Then you have to worry about what to do with the hood off, put it on the roof of the car? have to worry about scratching the paint or chiping the corners of the hood ect.

So I guess it depends on how carefull you can be?

[enRo]

If using bolt on, everyone recommends removing the hood struts because they can cause stress cracks, dents, and bends in the hood, reguardless how strong or weak they are. Just an FYI.

[Frosty]

Pin on can get real old fast. 4th gen hoods aren't that big so you can probably take it on & off yourself w/o issue, but still, one slip and something is getting scratched. You can find 11 pounds somewhere else.

Or just make more HP. :)

:werd: +1

[01blackz28]

Have a pin on hood on my racecar. Would NOT recommend it for a DD. If you need to pop your hood on side of the road it's pretty difficult to do alone without screwing it up.

[JL8Jeff]

Why not do the bolt on but put hood pins in the front corners so you can get rid of the latch like you want to. The GM fiberglass crossram hood for my 69 is actually built for the hinges and has the holes to pin it up front in the corners. The biggest risk is if it flies open because a pin comes out or breaks.

[KirkEvil]

Why not do the bolt on but put hood pins in the front corners so you can get rid of the latch like you want to. The GM fiberglass crossram hood for my 69 is actually built for the hinges and has the holes to pin it up front in the corners. The biggest risk is if it flies open because a pin comes out or breaks.

yeah this is what I think Im going to do.

[Tru2Chevy]

Why not do the bolt on but put hood pins in the front corners so you can get rid of the latch like you want to. The GM fiberglass crossram hood for my 69 is actually built for the hinges and has the holes to pin it up front in the corners. The biggest risk is if it flies open because a pin comes out or breaks.

yeah this is what I think Im going to do.

Somewhere I have pictures from when we removed the latch and took a holesaw to Little G's stock hood on his '02 Camaro - he did front pins, and left the rear hinges, and it worked great, so I would imagine the same would hold true for an aftermarket bolt-on hood.

I'll look on my computer tonight and upload 'em if I find 'em.

- Justin

[GP99GT]

Why not do the bolt on but put hood pins in the front corners so you can get rid of the latch like you want to. The GM fiberglass crossram hood for my 69 is actually built for the hinges and has the holes to pin it up front in the corners. The biggest risk is if it flies open because a pin comes out or breaks.

this is what i was thinking, thats why my mustang has

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah i thought that was one of your original ideas. i would do that as well.

[Whiplash Performance]

Kirk,
Are you going to buy the hood brand new?
if you are we can get you a good deal on the VFN hoods.

[KirkEvil]

Just a little update for those who dont follow the nonsense in the jersey shore section.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1088.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1089.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1090.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

i like how the heavens parted for the almighty ls1

[NJ Torque]

Looks kinda rough...

[KirkEvil]

Looks kinda rough...

Its black primer and has some sanding spots. Yes, it is pretty rough and needs a good deal more prep work before paint. Funny how there's a "VFN Quality" stamp under the hood :rofl:

[BonzoHansen]

what made you decide to get such a tall hood?

[JL8Jeff]

what made you decide to get such a tall hood?

Tunnel Ram! :mrgreen:

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Hood looks great...... not to happy with the zip ties on the licence plate. but as always, your car looks sweet in the pics. I would go with bolt on & pin the front or use dezus fasteners painted to match car (nice flush mount & clean)

I don't know if you went with the bolt on style but heres some pics of mine.
gives ya plenty of room for a custom ram air setup.
(don't think you want to go as drastic as i did)

pics below: Bolt-On Hood/Pin/Latch Delete MOD

[KirkEvil]

what made you decide to get such a tall hood?

Its 3" tall, which is still smaller than cowl hoods. I always liked the aggressive look of this hood, and not too many people have it. Plus I got a great deal from Ron. The underside is open, and you can actually see through the scoop vent from the driver seat. Its functional as a cowl, not a ram air.


Hood looks great...... not to happy with the zip ties on the licence plate. but as always, your car looks sweet in the pics. I would go with bolt on & pin the front or use dezus fasteners painted to match car (nice flush mount & clean)

I don't know if you went with the bolt on style but heres some pics of mine.
gives ya plenty of room for a custom ram air setup.
(don't think you want to go as drastic as i did)

pics below: Bolt-On Hood/Pin/Latch Delete MOD

Damn Curt, no turning back now :rofl:. Do the dezus fasteners need to be welded in? Basically, could the position of the hood be changed to match body panels after the rails are installed?

My hood is bolt on. My bumper support is gone, and the underside of front bumper cover is trimmed underneath. The only thing that would block a box ducting would be the "V" shape support of the hood latch assembly. I was thinking of cutting the V supports and mocking up a serious ram air box...I'll have to start looking for sheet metal.

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Damn Curt, no turning back now :rofl:. Do the dezus fasteners need to be welded in? Basically, could the position of the hood be changed to match body panels after the rails are installed?

My hood is bolt on. My bumper support is gone, and the underside of front bumper cover is trimmed underneath. The only thing that would block a box ducting would be the "V" shape support of the hood latch assembly. I was thinking of cutting the V supports and mocking up a serious ram air box...I'll have to start looking for sheet metal.

yeah, no turning back. car will be twin turbo w/ A.C. and me deleting the latch assembly & other stuff I cutout, will help me do several things:

1.move radiator and conderser where I want them
2.room for me to make a cold air panel up & over the rad support and under the turbos which will then wrap behind the turbos to block heat from the engine and supply cold air to the filters while cooling the turbos a bit @ the same time.

as for hood & dzus fastenersL:
you need to fit hood & adjust as best as possible. than make little brackets like picture (1) below, when installing the brackets oblong the mounting holes, this will allow you to move the mounting plate (catch) of the dzus clip.

the clips in the hood itself can be rivetted in, screwed or epoxyd. once installed you can clean them up/sand finish & paint the hood all 1 shot. very clean look when your done.

any final adjustments can be done with the mounting plates that are attached to fender wells.

i believe you want to use whats called a oval barrel dzus. that is pic (2)

[KirkEvil]

Its more practical for me to keep my hood on hinges. Dzus fasteners are a great idea but Im not really a fan of the pins all over the hood. I think Im just going to cut the V shape of the latch bracket and make some new supports for it.

I spent some time yesterday taking measurements and designed an the airbox using Autocad.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/RamAirBox.jpg

My goal is to keep cost under $100 in materials, weigh under 5 lbs, and be constructed with only hand tools. My plan is to make decals to scale, then stick them to the sheet metal as a stencil to cut out. I dont have a break bender so most of the bends will be separate pieces, riveted together with tabs and sealed with 200mph tape.

For materials, Lowes had 22ga steel, 26 ga coated steel, and .020 Aluminum. Im leaning towards the 26 ga steel because it would be the easiest to wrk with, and slightly stronger than the aluminum. The only thing Im worried about is noise with the thinner sheet, but I guess that could be fixed with supports.

Thoughts on any of this?

[S.J.SLEEPER]

KIRKEVIL,
As for the hood, I wasn't stating to pin your hood all over the place, was just showing you the mounting brackets.

I am keeping my hood with hinges but no front latch assy.
i will be putting in only 3 dzus fasteners: (1) @ top center of each headlight & (1) in dead center front above chevy emblem.

as for the cold air kit. my personal fav is stainless steel sheetmetal. no rust,no need to paint & looks really trick.
my buddy works @ lowes and he tosses out tops for bbq grilles all the time due to dents and such. i have 2 of them to make my cold air kit. if you want I see if i can get 2 more for ya.

other route I would do aluminum (light,no rattles) but you'll need to tig it.

if going with sheetmetal steel, use the galvanized sheetmetal thats used for hvac ductwork. thicker,won't rust & can be bent,rivited,painted etc..

p.s. If you cutout the urethane part of bumper behind the lower grille you can get a s*&tload more airflow.

[S.J.SLEEPER]

got a copy of the autocad program? i would love to have it, or any other edition of cad,cadkey, etc... lol

[KirkEvil]

got a copy of the autocad program? i would love to have it, or any other edition of cad,cadkey, etc... lol

:shifty:


Nice seeing ideas take shape...

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1095.jpg

[S.J.SLEEPER]

looks galvanized sheetmetal.....good choice!

have fun cutting it, let me know how many bandaids you need me to send ya!






:popcorn:

[KirkEvil]

Its some kind of plated steel. Im going to paint it black anyway so it doesnt look too obnoxious in the engine bay.

I've learned my lesson and now wear gloves with sheet metal, Haha. Cutting so far isnt that bad just using tin snips, its only 26 ga.

[KirkEvil]

The box is coming together...

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1096.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/IMGP1098.jpg

[S.J.SLEEPER]

looks good! keep up the good work.

i swear that looks like galv sheetmetal!

[KirkEvil]

Teaser Pics

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/KirkEvil%20Ram%20Air/IMGP1100.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/KirkEvil/NJFBOA/KirkEvil%20Ram%20Air/IMGP1102.jpg

[LTb1ow]

That thing got central air?

[KirkEvil]

Zone climate control, with a built in air purifier. Smells like lavender.

[LTb1ow]

That thing is gonna suck alright.

[NJ Torque]

Like a hoova.

[S.J.SLEEPER]

I wonder how many birds you can suck in with that thing !!! lol

looks great man, nice work ! I would have you make me one but my lame set-up isn't worthy of it.:wink:

[sweetbmxrider]

get some dyno numbers and become an ls1tech sponser!

[KirkEvil]

Cant dyno ram air...

[LTb1ow]

Wind tunnel.


OR... mobile dyno truck.. and do the pull while going 80mph down the parkway.

[KirkEvil]

find me a wind tunnel with a dyno. Oh yeah, and the dyno has to have a conveyor belt system around it to simulate the ground moving at 80 mph

[BonzoHansen]

I'd like to see a wind tunnel test. I hate to say it, but I think that hood is a wind drag. A w/t test might prove me wrong. Get daskinnyfella on the horn, they got a w/t down in nascar land.

The air box you're building is neat.

[LTb1ow]

The whole front of a 4th gen is a wind drag, I don't think GM put any thought into it at all.

He def gains from the weight loss, and the added wind resistance is negligible being as I doubt he plans on traveling at speeds higher than a 120mph often... IMO of course.

[KirkEvil]

Psh, the GSP cruises at 120.

I doubt the hood really has much drag. The high pressure zone would be right infront of the scoop, which has an opening, and the back of it is completely open at the cowl. I think I'll see more gain from the weight savings then the drag loss.

The air box is all mounted up, I just need to take pictures. You wouldnt know it was there unless I popped the hood. Im still babying the car since I replaced the head gaskets 2 days ago, so I'll post up some impressions once I get it on the highway.

[sweetbmxrider]

then dynooooooooooooooooooooooo

[BonzoHansen]

I think I'll see more gain from the weight savings then the drag loss. .Could be. How much less does that hood weigh over the stock hood?

[KirkEvil]

I just weighed my stock hood with no mounting brackets or struts came to 47 lbs. VFN's website says the bolt on 3" ss hood weighs 25 lbs. I never weighed it but it felt lighter than that, so at least 22 lbs off the front.

[WildBillyT]

I doubt the hood really has much drag.

It doesn't. I seem to remember seeing an automotive drag test back in the early '00s that showed an LT1 Camaro and Dodge Intrepid (a '96 or so?) to have very good aero.

[BigAls87Z28]

4th gens are pretty aerodynamic overall, as are most cars over the last 20 years.
Even third gens, which put down a very low .cD