Rebuild or Replace?

[Adam1978]

hey gang! my 78 has a pretty worn 350 in it, and it DEFINITELY needs at least a rebuild. my quesion was, would it be cheaper to just buy perhaps a 350 crate or maybe an LS1 or something. i would like to build my own but this is sort of my daily driver lol, i figured get a crate and drop it in while i build mine up in the garage. although if just the rebuild will be noticeably cheaper i'll just do that, i found a nice rebuild kit from Summit Racing that comes with a nice cam for around 1,600, and idk how much a machine shop is going to cost me to bore out and dip the block, then comes the heads and all that jazz, what do you guys think?

[Adam1978]

i found completely rebuilt engines that come with a warranty for rather cheap, i might go this rout and then rebuild my 350 whenever i have spare time and money, what do you guys think about these options, i dont want to go bigger than a 396, gas is still a factor for me lol http://www.rebuiltcrateengines.com/chevy-performance-engine-c-103_104.html

[HardcoreZ28]

Most likely it will be less expensive to go with a crate engine...plus it will come with a warranty. Machine shop costs can easily hit $1,000-$1,500 for a stock rebuild. Add in your $1,600 in parts and you're already in GM crate engine prices.

I would stick with reputable name crate engine manufacturers though....do some research before buying.

[CHRIS67]

Hold up a minute. What are you planning on doing with the car? If you have a numbers matching 78 and are restoring it then rebuild it. If you plan on using it for a show/weekend car and don't care about the resto then go with a crate.

[WildBillyT]

I would say a crate Gen I is bar none your best bet- especially if you don't know too much about working on it (yet!).

Look into GM performance crate motors. Places like Jasper and Blueprint look good, but there are some real horror stories out there. And regarding the warranty, read the whole thing BEFORE you buy the motor. They are not all the same and some barely cover anything and are a bitch to collect on.

[edpontiac91]

I would say go with a GM Target 350 crate motor. EVERYTHING is brand new and it comes with a warranty. If it is going to be your daily driver it will easily fit into your plan and if you want to, you could always build your old motor at your own pace. Plus if and when the time comes that you'll have your old motor built, you could always sell your crate motor and recover some of outlay.

[Adam1978]

yeah, im going with a crate lol, i forgot about jasper somehow, i bought a rebuilt tranny off them for my suburban and it was practically new lol, what do you guys think about an LS2 being in a 2nd gen? i dont know that much about new engines, could they be carbureted easily? i dont want any computers in my car lol

[WildBillyT]

yeah, im going with a crate lol, i forgot about jasper somehow, i bought a rebuilt tranny off them for my suburban and it was practically new lol, what do you guys think about an LS2 being in a 2nd gen? i dont know that much about new engines, could they be carbureted easily? i dont want any computers in my car lol

Adam,

If you are just getting started, don't start retrofitting stuff. Yes, it's cool, and yes, all the magazines are doing them but it's a lot easier to learn on a Gen I.

[Adam1978]

Adam,

If you are just getting started, don't start retrofitting stuff. Yes, it's cool, and yes, all the magazines are doing them but it's a lot easier to learn on a Gen I.

yeah i know =[ im just get a turn key crate and live with it and learn on the gen 1 im taking out of the car, this way when i want to start fooling around i will know what im doing lol

[BonzoHansen]

plus the incremental costs can grow fast.


when looking at crates make sure you know what you are looking at. A roller block would be nice but you face a few extra costs like a different flywheel. Also watch heads if you need to reuse your intake, etc.

[Adam1978]

well i just replaced my flywheel and from my experience most flywheels match up the engine just fine its the tranny spline that gave me the problem, and since i just changed them less than 100 miles ago i would try to just keep those, and if i can i'll try to re-use the water pump/alternator ect... that i already have to keep costs down

[BonzoHansen]

1-pc main seal blocks use different flywheels! that is the point I'm trying to make, check out the details before you buy.

[Adam1978]

oh lol i didnt know that, i'll be sure to check it all out, how do i tell what type i have? i believe it was an early 80's late 70's 350 made in mexico lol i forgot the casting number, or is there a way to look and check easily?

[BonzoHansen]

that is probably a 2 pc main seal block. get the casting# or even if you have the flywheel part number I bet we can back into it.

Now, a nice deal on a roller cam (1pc) block might be worth a new FW!

[B4C]

I would build my own but that's just me. I'm just waiting on some cash flow to start my 427 build. It really all depends on what you want to do with the car.

[Adam1978]

well i am building my own, but since this is my daily driver im throwing a crate in there that'll be fast but nothing too crazy while i build the worn 350 thats in it now into a monster

[mc73nova]

The cheapest way to do it is to drop a crate engine in. Unless you have parts laying around that will work for you.

[WildBillyT]

that is probably a 2 pc main seal block. get the casting# or even if you have the flywheel part number I bet we can back into it.

Now, a nice deal on a roller cam (1pc) block might be worth a new FW!

Yup. Even though a lot of Gen I stuff is the same there are differences.

What makes you think it needs a rebuild anyway? Any chance it could just have a bad tune?

[BonzoHansen]

what is the budget?

[Adam1978]

im not too sure of the budget lol i just got a job, it pays crap but its not bad, and i have another job i'll work at the same time for 8/hr but that job gives me 60+ hours a week so its goodish money not to mention student loans for "college spending" lol. as for what makes me think it needs to be rebuilt is the fact that everything rattles lol the headers are nearly rusted through and cylinder 7 i believe it was is losing compression, not to mention it is burning oil, you can see and smell it in the exhaust, its not bad, but still, i would like to get it done lol

[WildBillyT]

im not too sure of the budget lol i just got a job, it pays crap but its not bad, and i have another job i'll work at the same time for 8/hr but that job gives me 60+ hours a week so its goodish money not to mention student loans for "college spending" lol. as for what makes me think it needs to be rebuilt is the fact that everything rattles lol the headers are nearly rusted through and cylinder 7 i believe it was is losing compression, not to mention it is burning oil, you can see and smell it in the exhaust, its not bad, but still, i would like to get it done lol

Try this:

1.) Leak down test or compression test
2.) Check the PCV system
3.) Check the timing, carb, and vacuum advance.

Then report back :D

PS- new headers are not that expensive for a gen I.

Don't jump the gun. Do some testing first.

Actually, if you are light on time call one of the sponsors to the right, like JS or SSP. This stuff should be very easy for them. Paying a trained eye/ear can be a lot cheaper than a rebuild you don't need.

[BonzoHansen]

WBT, I know where there is a set of 2nd gen headers. :)

[WildBillyT]

WBT, I know where there is a set of 2nd gen headers. :)

LOL. Shame that they are rusty, dented, and the flanges are cut.

[Adam1978]

timing and carb are WAY out of sync lol i know that, my tach is broken and i dont have a timing light, and the carb itself has linkage issues and is just worn out from 33 years of use, i rebuilt it but alot of the inside looked kinda used lol and the dashpot has a hole in it and doesnt work anymore, plus the choke linkage to the back butterflies seems flakey and idk why, all vacuum lines were replaced and vacuum is working fine, it was running really bad and i found an open line in the carb and plugged it with a rubber nipple and it seems to run alot better now, the tach is an easy fix i just broke the wire that comes off of the distributor, once i get that fixed im gunna buy a timing light and try to set the timing, does anyone know what the timing is supposed to be on one of these things?

[BonzoHansen]

blast em paint em good as new


I doubt his are nearly rusted through. Me thinks he needs an intervention! :)

[WildBillyT]

timing and carb are WAY out of sync lol i know that, my tach is broken and i dont have a timing light, and the carb itself has linkage issues and is just worn out from 33 years of use, i rebuilt it but alot of the inside looked kinda used lol and the dashpot has a hole in it and doesnt work anymore, plus the choke linkage to the back butterflies seems flakey and idk why, all vacuum lines were replaced and vacuum is working fine, it was running really bad and i found an open line in the carb and plugged it with a rubber nipple and it seems to run alot better now, the tach is an easy fix i just broke the wire that comes off of the distributor, once i get that fixed im gunna buy a timing light and try to set the timing, does anyone know what the timing is supposed to be on one of these things?

Adam,

All due respect, you are jumping the gun something awful. It sounds like you need to spend some time and a little money figuring out what you have before you go balls deep into a rebuild.

1.) If you don't know what you are doing rebuilding a Q-Jet you probably made a few mistakes. Even seasoned car guys trash Qjets because they can be hard to tune or work with. I'm not going to say run to a Holley, but this establishes that your carb is an issue.

2.) You had a big vacuum leak. If you tried to tune it with the open line you need to redo your tune.

3.) The vacuum advance that I am speaking of can help your car run cleaner. Make sure there is a vacuum line running to your distributor.


If you can, take a couple pics and post them up. And some more info about the underhood setup would help.

[Adam1978]

idk lol, where they attach to the block itself the metal and rust is coming off in rather large flakes, not to mention even with a new header back exhaust i still here exhaust coming from right infront of me so i know there's a hole in them somewhere, how much are a nice set of long tube headers? i want more acceleration in this puppy lol i dont care about top end speed really, just 0-60, i never go faster...unless on the parkway lol

[WildBillyT]

idk lol, where they attach to the block itself the metal and rust is coming off in rather large flakes, not to mention even with a new header back exhaust i still here exhaust coming from right infront of me so i know there's a hole in them somewhere, how much are a nice set of long tube headers? i want more acceleration in this puppy lol i dont care about top end speed really, just 0-60, i never go faster...unless on the parkway lol

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9001-9/

$170 with the discount posted on here. These are also ceramic coated so they will look nice for a while and will keep the underhood temps down. That exhaust is probably an exhaust leak from blown gaskets or a monkey fisted install.

[Adam1978]

Adam,

All due respect, you are jumping the gun something awful. It sounds like you need to spend some time and a little money figuring out what you have before you go balls deep into a rebuild.

1.) If you don't know what you are doing rebuilding a Q-Jet you probably made a few mistakes. Even seasoned car guys trash Qjets because they can be hard to tune or work with. I'm not going to say run to a Holley, but this establishes that your carb is an issue.

2.) You had a big vacuum leak. If you tried to tune it with the open line you need to redo your tune.

3.) The vacuum advance that I am speaking of can help your car run cleaner. Make sure there is a vacuum line running to your carb.


If you can, take a couple pics and post them up. And some more info about the underhood setup would help.
i didnt do the rebuild, my dad is a general foreman over at NJ transit, he had one of his machinists that used to be a car machinist rebuild it, he said he has rebuilt many cars and carbs lol so i trust him, he just said that the rebuild kit itself did help alot although alot of the internal workings looked pretty worn, and my friend's dad tuned the carb for me, the vacuum leak we found when we brought it home from NYC, those bennies just dont know how to take care of cars lol

[BonzoHansen]

WBT is right, time to stop guessing & start testing!

you might just be seeing flakes of old coating & hear gasket leaks. amazing what a sandblaster and some eastwood manifold paint will do to old rusty headers:

Rusty:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/My77Z28/IMG_0247x.jpg

Sandblasted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/My77Z28/IMG_0250x.jpg

Done:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/My77Z28/IMG_1454a.jpg

[WildBillyT]

OR:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/3416170016_18c76a7043_b.jpg

TO:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/IMG_2591-1.jpg

Yes, not as good, but this was with hand sanding and painting pitted headers.

[Adam1978]

ooo not bad, i want to get a new exhaust regardless of what happens with the engine, it just doesnt sound mean enough and it feels like it is being really held back, the carb i was thinking about going Edelbrock, what would you guys think? i like Holey, but i heard Edelbrock is just as good and i can get them for cheaper from my buddy. any who, when i get my first few checks i was going to go for long tube headers with an x pipe and duel exhaust. now back to the engine, i want to learn how to rebuild engines eventually, so sooner or later i want to get a crate and drop it in while working on the engine, or maybe have a beater while i rebuild that engine, not sure yet. oh and yes there is a vacuum line running to my carb lol

[BonzoHansen]

mine are pitted to hell, what cha gonna do?

[WildBillyT]

ooo not bad, i want to get a new exhaust regardless of what happens with the engine, it just doesnt sound mean enough and it feels like it is being really held back, the carb i was thinking about going Edelbrock, what would you guys think? i like Holey, but i heard Edelbrock is just as good and i can get them for cheaper from my buddy. any who, when i get my first few checks i was going to go for long tube headers with an x pipe and duel exhaust. now back to the engine, i want to learn how to rebuild engines eventually, so sooner or later i want to get a crate and drop it in while working on the engine, or maybe have a beater while i rebuild that engine, not sure yet. oh and yes there is a vacuum line running to my carb lol

Vacuum line running to the can on the distributor.

An Edelbrock carb is fine. They are based off of the Carter AFB.

[Adam1978]

hmm im not sure if there is, i believe someone said that it wasnt a vacuum advance distributor, but i cannot remember, i will have to check when it is sunny 2marow, should i take pictures of the engine if i can get my camera working to better explain everything?

[WildBillyT]

hmm im not sure if there is, i believe someone said that it wasnt a vacuum advance distributor, but i cannot remember, i will have to check when it is sunny 2marow, should i take pictures of the engine if i can get my camera working to better explain everything?

YES

[Adam1978]

YES

lol okay i'll see what i can do.