GM HD 2500/3500 Best In Class Diesel Power

[BigAls87Z28]

Ford launched its SD F series trucks ratings not to long ago, talking about how it has the best in class yadda yadda givesaf.
GM held its cards, and now have released the info!

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/595/medium/shd1.jpg

According to GM, the revised 6.6L Duramax diesel will be rated at 397 horsepower and 765 lb-ft of torque, easily besting Ford's 2011 Super Duty diesel by 30 lb-ft of torque. Also revised is the 6.0L Small Block V8, which will now be rated at 360 horsepower and 380 lb-ft of torque. Both powertrains have seen a host of improvements and revising for 2011. Hit up the below press release for more details.


http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f13/gm-hd-trucks-best-class-diesel-power-89868/#post2006085

[01ws6TA]

765 ft lbs of torque stock :shock:

I wish i could afford one of these newer diesel trucks.

[sweetbmxrider]

:drool: do want

[bandit88]

yey diesel ftw!

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

397 hp? They couldn't squeak 3 more out? :mrgreen:

That's a damn kick-ass motor.

[maroman88]

holy torque!!!!!!

[Squirrel]

http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201310f843689970c-800wi

[SteveR]

"According to GM"

I'll wait and see a third party comparison. And 30ft/lbs. isn't much of a difference, especially taking things like trans gearing, weight, rear gearing, and chassis stiffness into account. Either way, those are some sick numbers. I'm liking the diesel wars :D

[Foosh]

It was in diesel power mag, a chipped only 2011 duramax ran a the same 1/4 that a brand new 2010 SS ran, and beat it at 0-60

[BigAls87Z28]

GM challenged Ford to a tug of war with their new SD trucks and Ford didn't bite.

[SteveR]

Either way, they're both awesome trucks and it's good to see competition in the diesel market. Now if Dodge can only fix the problems with the 6.7 or replace it and it can be a three company competition.

[BigAls87Z28]

That is actually the NEW cummings 6.7. Sad.

[SteveR]

That is actually the NEW cummings 6.7. Sad.

Did they fix the EGR, turbo grenading, and engine catastrophic failure problems yet?

[Foosh]

I wouldn't bash on Dodge, overall they do have the best diesel... afterall its the only marine based engine that wasn't created off a gas engine block, thats why its a inline 6 and not a v8.

[SteveR]

The 6.7, at least the first version if it was total crap. Melissa and I went to a dealership in Oct-Nov '08 and they had one there with a sticker of $48+k and it was marked down to $24k or something and after reading all of the reviews and talking to a lot of people, it turned out the design of the 6.7 was garbage. The EGR system was over restrictive and was causing the turbo to grenade as well as causing catastrophic engine failure. It wasn't recalled (at least in the first year that I know of) because Dodge didnt have a fix for it. Instead, they would replace the broken parts. The problem was that if you were using it to haul cargo across country and you died in the middle of nowhere, you were on the hook for the massive towing cost to get you and your trailer to a dealership, then hang out in a hotel until it got fixed. For commercial purposes, it was no longer a viable option. Word got out and nobody was buying them, which is why the one we looked at sat there forever and they couldnt even sell it for 50% off. You could remove the EGR system yourself to fix the problem, but then the truck wouldnt pass emissions and it would void your warranty on a brand new truck. The 5.9 was amazing, but the 6.7 set Dodge way back.

[BigAls87Z28]

I wouldn't bash on Dodge, overall they do have the best diesel... afterall its the only marine based engine that wasn't created off a gas engine block, thats why its a inline 6 and not a v8.

Dmax and new 6.7 "Scorpion" Powerstroke does not use any sort of gas engine block.
Im at a loss for words reguarding the I-6 vs V8 comment.



The 6.7, at least the first version if it was total crap. Melissa and I went to a dealership in Oct-Nov '08 and they had one there with a sticker of $48+k and it was marked down to $24k or something and after reading all of the reviews and talking to a lot of people, it turned out the design of the 6.7 was garbage. The EGR system was over restrictive and was causing the turbo to grenade as well as causing catastrophic engine failure. It wasn't recalled (at least in the first year that I know of) because Dodge didnt have a fix for it. Instead, they would replace the broken parts. The problem was that if you were using it to haul cargo across country and you died in the middle of nowhere, you were on the hook for the massive towing cost to get you and your trailer to a dealership, then hang out in a hotel until it got fixed. For commercial purposes, it was no longer a viable option. Word got out and nobody was buying them, which is why the one we looked at sat there forever and they couldnt even sell it for 50% off. You could remove the EGR system yourself to fix the problem, but then the truck wouldnt pass emissions and it would void your warranty on a brand new truck. The 5.9 was amazing, but the 6.7 set Dodge way back.


No idea, but Ford took a BIG dump on itself when they replaced the 7.3 with teh 6.0. ECM and Fuel injector rail problems galllllllore! That was just the start of it!
The Twin turbo 6.4's made it a little better, but Ford dropped Navistar after two dismall engines. The new 6.7 is an all new, all-Ford design.

[Foosh]

Sorry not that up to date on the 6.7, i'm a fan of the 12 valve 5.9... BA! but the I-6 design has a lot of perks

[BigAls87Z28]

The 6.7 is a bigger version of the 5.9 Cummings. Somewhere in the .8 liters it gained, it went to ****.

[T69SS]

Very impressive numbers, but my favorite diesel is still the 5.9 Cummins (12 or 24 valve)

[Tru2Chevy]

The 6.7 is a bigger version of the 5.9 Cummings. Somewhere in the .8 liters it gained, it went to ****.

The problem was (to the best of my knowledge) the additional emissions controls that were added at the same time.

Fundamentally the engines are the same, and I know several parts are interchangeable.

- Justin

[SteveR]

No idea, but Ford took a BIG dump on itself when they replaced the 7.3 with teh 6.0. ECM and Fuel injector rail problems galllllllore! That was just the start of it!
The Twin turbo 6.4's made it a little better, but Ford dropped Navistar after two dismall engines. The new 6.7 is an all new, all-Ford design.

The 6.4 had great numbers, but to service one was a friggin NIGHTMARE. You couldn't get to anything on it without having to lift the body off the frame. I remember laughing every time someone brought one in to the service area and seeing all these bodies up on lifts. Imagine trying to work on one in your driveway? The twin turbo concept they had for that design was really nice though. The 6.0 had a lot of problems, and it was the loudest diesel motor Ford ever used. The aftermarket is pretty decent for it though.

[1QWIKBIRD]

The problem was (to the best of my knowledge) the additional emissions controls that were added at the same time.

Fundamentally the engines are the same, and I know several parts are interchangeable.

- Justin

Dodge/Cummins tried to get ahead of the emissions curve with the 6.7L engine meeting the new 2010 standards before all others. Didn't quite work out the way they had planned. The 5.9L Cummins is (or at least was) the only medium duty rated diesel available in a pickup truck. A 5.9L cummins in dodge trim is heavily de-fueled. If you look at medium duty Ford chassis (F600's and up, like a 26' box truck etc.) they came with Cummins power or Cat power, not a powerstroke. Chevrolet was the same way, the medium duty trucks don't run the Dmax, they step up to Cat power (or did anyway). I don't think Cat is in the on road diesel game anymore because of the emissions crap. I think they are solely making engines for off-road use only now, so I don't know who is supplying Chevy their medium duty engines (isuzu?). But either way the upgraded power plants are I6's not V8 variants. Not starting a diesel war, just getting the facts out there. I'm not sure of the exact reason for the I6 versus V8 deal. Its got something to do with the architecture/strength/packaging. An I6 is just a simpler engine to build versus a V8, especially as the displacement gets really really big (Cat's big dog is 15.2L and Cummins is 15L, about 1000 cubes). I think just about all of the big on road diesels are I6's.

For the pickup truck segment, I think the Duramax is the current king, especially when you consider the Allison automatic it is mated to. Like was stated earlier, competition is a good thing, so lets hope dodge and ford get their end figured out.

I love my 5.9l 12v engine cummins. As long as I can keep the dodge part from falling to pieces around it, it will be with me a long time. 225,000 is coming up fast, so she is just about broken in.:rofl:

[SteveR]

I don't think Cat is in the on road diesel game anymore because of the emissions crap.

I think they still make a lot of the motors for tractor trailers. I remember reading in Diesel Power last year that they had finalized the design for their new flagship tractor trailer engine that will last one million miles and make something like 2600ft/lbs of torque and get double the gas mileage of the previous design.

[BigAls87Z28]

DMax is a joint-venture between GM and Isuzu.
THe Mini-Max that was supposed to show sometime next year was an all GM unit.

[1QWIKBIRD]

I think they still make a lot of the motors for tractor trailers. I remember reading in Diesel Power last year that they had finalized the design for their new flagship tractor trailer engine that will last one million miles and make something like 2600ft/lbs of torque and get double the gas mileage of the previous design.

Maybe they quit the light duty segment and stick to what they do best and that's the medium and big stuff. I just checked their site for kicks and looks like you are correct. 15.2L specs here:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0806dp_caterpillar_c15_diesel_engine/index.html

Kinda sick to have all that power and at 2100 rpm. But I don't think 15.2L worth of internals could spin much faster than that.

[1QWIKBIRD]

DMax is a joint-venture between GM and Isuzu.
THe Mini-Max that was supposed to show sometime next year was an all GM unit.

I thought the GM/Isuzu partnership was a dead deal and GM took control or was bought out or something?

[BigAls87Z28]

Isuzu/GM partnership is pretty much over, but they still continue to share some things. I belive they are still working on a compact/midsized truck together.
Dmax is still shared between the two, and they sell some Zukes as Chevy/GMCs.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Isuzu/GM partnership is pretty much over, but they still continue to share some things. I belive they are still working on a compact/midsized truck together.
Dmax is still shared between the two, and they sell some Zukes as Chevy/GMCs.

That's good. Cause just as GM/Chevy got their diesel game together, it would suck to have to start over.

[BigAls87Z28]

To be honest, the Mini-Max that was supposed to show next year was pretty revolutionary for diesel engines.
Heads are turned around, so the exhaust goes to teh center where the turbo is mounted, intake system is intergratedi nto the valvecover or something.
Specs were something like 350hp and 500-600ftlbs, and the size/weight of a Gen IV so it could mate to a standard 6spd auto trans instead of the expensive Allison.

Edit: Pics

http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/diesel-news/310-horsepower-45-liter-half-ton-duramax-planned-for-2009/6469461+w640+cr1+re0+ar1/45-liter-light-duty-duramax.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2009/07/x10pt_8c002.jpg