Another court thread... but I really didn't do anything... [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

79CamaroDiva

04-22-2010, 01:51 PM

I just need opinions whether people think I should bother fighting this with an attorney, or getting it lowered/dropped on my own..

I'll start by saying I currently have 5 or 6 points on my license, purely because if I get caught speeding, I don't bother fighting it because I KNOW I was wrong, and I got caught.. and also bc my insurance won't go up for points, so I never saw the need to pay $500 to get unsafe driving and no points..

Anyhow, a month or so ago I was in the left lane and passed a pack of cars on Rt 80.. one of those cars happened to be a cop, I didn't think anything of it because I wasn't actually blatantly speeding (only about 70 in a 65, tell me I'm wrong, but thats not a reason to get stopped).. I move over as soon as I finish passing this group of cars and see the cop followed me.. ends up pulling me over..

He pulls up, asks if I know why he pulled me over, I say no sir, not really. He says I was going a little fast back there.. I say "Was I really? I didn't notice" He never tells me how fast I was going, my guess is because he can't, and takes my paperwork and off he goes. That's when I realized my insurance card was expired so I had to give him the old one. I figured I'd get a document ticket, which I would pay and not fight.

He comes back and says "well, I won't give you a ticket for speeding or your documents, I'm going to let you off with a careless driving ticket for driving in the left lane. It's a 2 point ticket, you're only supposed to use the left lane for passing." Meanwhile, I WAS using it for passing, I passed HIM! As soon as it was clear I pulled back over to the center lane, mostly because I noticed him pulling out behind me, but regardless, I wasn't in the left lane longer than necessary.

There's a million threads on here for fighting tickets that are actually deserved, but I honestly feel this is a complete :bs: ticket... thoughts?

04-22-2010, 02:14 PM

SteveR

04-22-2010, 02:16 PM

Yea fight that. Go to court and tell the judge you WERE using the left lane to pass. Before court though talk to the prosecutor and try and work a deal with him before court starts. If you talk to him before court starts he can look into it and talk to the judge and see what they can do. If you know someone who's a cop see if they can go with you. It can sometimes help to have a cop friend with you to also talk to the prosecutor. Be prepared though, a lot of times if they change the ticket and remove the points, the judge likes to increase the fine. I would personally fight it. By getting points on your license it resets the timer to get points removed, so 12 months from the court date with zero infractions to get the first two points taken off. I forget what the barrier is in NJ but at some point and I think it's six points when you cross it the state fines you annually per point on your license until they're gone. So by crossing the six point barrier, you could end up paying an additional annually fee of a few hundred dollars to the state for having points on your license. Then if you get pulled over for anything and get even a minor ticket, your points timer resets to 12 months and you get another annual surcharge on your license. It comes in the mail and if you don't pay it they suspend your license. At least that's how it worked a few years ago when I got pulled over all the time and had a consistent nine to eleven points on my license lol

79CamaroDiva

04-22-2010, 02:18 PM

Well, technically either ticket will be a 2 point ticket. Careless is 2 and speeding 1-14 mph over limit is a 2 point ticket. Since you were in the wrong for speeding you really ended up just getting cuaght and it sucks but what can you do. Like you said he could have wrote you another ticket for the document expired too.

All that said, I would try to plead it to unsafe, simply because of the points and that if you are at 5 -6 points now on your license, you are now going to be surcharged for the next 3 years!

Also, how does your insurance not go up from points?

JW :D

1-14 over is a 2 point ticket, but from what I understand, 5mph or less is no reason to even run your plate, let alone pull you over.. between that and the fact that he was in the right lane, within a pack of cars and it appeared he was getting off at the next exit so I doubt he was even fast enough to grab my mph, I don't believe he has a speed on me. He couldn't tell me how fast I was going, and generally they say right away if they do.

Allstate platinum insurance does not go up for moving violations.. my insurance is the same rate its been for the last year almost 2 years since I got my HHR

SteveR

04-22-2010, 02:22 PM

Well, technically either ticket will be a 2 point ticket. Careless is 2 and speeding 1-14 mph over limit is a 2 point ticket. Since you were in the wrong for speeding you really ended up just getting cuaght and it sucks but what can you do. Like you said he could have wrote you another ticket for the document expired too.

JW :D

That actually works out better for her. He chose to only issue her a ticket for something she'll have a much easier time fighting in court. Speeding is a bit harder to disprove. He did her a favor, but she still has the right to defend herself. He can't issue the other tickets after the fact so all she has to do is prove she was using the left lane to pass.

Since police cars have dash cameras, ask if it is available in court. If you were only going 5 over, it'll show you passing responsibly and moving back into your lane.

SteveR

04-22-2010, 02:28 PM

Whiplash Performance

04-22-2010, 02:31 PM

Fight it since you were in the left lane to pass the slower pack of cars. Going 5 over is usually a slow pace for route 80.

Mike

04-22-2010, 02:53 PM

Since police cars have dash cameras, ask if it is available in court. If you were only going 5 over, it'll show you passing responsibly and moving back into your lane.

not all cruisers have dash cameras , and they don't usually come on until the lights and sirens are turned on, so it probably would have shown her passing either way

Fight it since you were in the left lane to pass the slower pack of cars. Going 5 over is usually a slow pace for route 80.

passing yes, saying you were only speeding because everyone else does is not the best argument:lol:

r0nin89

04-22-2010, 02:57 PM

He can't site you with speeding after the fact so don't worry about that. He can say whatever he wants in court but the judge will ask him if he sited you for it, he'll say no, and the judge will tell him to move on. The only issue in court will be the one ticket you got which is the careless, which is a retarded ticket for passing. If anything it would be like a failure to yield. The more I think about it now, I'm sure the judge will lower it. I've never heard of a careless for driving in the left lane.

How is a careless suitable for driving in the left lane anyway? The definition of a careless in layman's terms is performing an illegal act/maneuver that you didnt do on purpose. So if you were purposely in the left passing like you were suppose to how is that careless or illegal?

If its illegal to pass in the left lane they might as well plant ****ing flowers and trees in all lanes but the right cause theres no point in having multiple lane roads then...

I would go there and explain yourself. It'll probably get thrown out and as said he cant say well fine heres a ticket for speeding I didnt cite you for then. On top of the fact that its not very hard to get a pacing ticket thrown out. Just be careful driving through that area again. The cops probably gonna wanna stick it to ya if he ever sees you again.

79T/A

04-22-2010, 10:19 PM

1-14 over is a 2 point ticket, but from what I understand, 5mph or less is no reason to even run your plate, let alone pull you over.. between that and the fact that he was in the right lane, within a pack of cars and it appeared he was getting off at the next exit so I doubt he was even fast enough to grab my mph, I don't believe he has a speed on me. He couldn't tell me how fast I was going, and generally they say right away if they do.

I gotta break this down a little.

1-14 over is a 2 point ticket, but from what I understand, 5mph or less is no reason to even run your plate, let alone pull you over..

I understand that this is the general belief that the public has on speed enforcement, and I'll admit, most cops won't bother with someone doing less than five or ten miles per hour hour over the speed limit, but there's nothing in Title 39 that says they can't. And a cop can run your plate randomly anytime he/she wants to (Note: By randomly, I mean that the officer can run the plate through the computer in a random mode that only reveals the make, model and year of the car unless it or it's owner is suspended, wanted, etc. For a detailed inquiry that includes the owner's name and address, there must be reasonable suspicion.) The actual stop requires an articulable reason, such as a violation, well-being check, or investigation.

between that and the fact that he was in the right lane, within a pack of cars and it appeared he was getting off at the next exit so I doubt he was even fast enough to grab my mph, I don't believe he has a speed on me. He couldn't tell me how fast I was going, and generally they say right away if they do.

Most people think that the way radar works is that the cop points the radar, reads your speed, then pulls you over for it. In order to be certified as a radar operator, it requires at least 80 hours of training (At least, that's how it was when I did it many years ago). The officer is supposed to be able to see the approaching vehicle and gauge its speed and then use the radar to confirm what he/she sees. Therefore, an officer is supposed to know how fast you are going whether the radar is on or not. That training is just for occasions like this one. Careless was issued rather than speeding because the radar most likely wasn't used to confirm what the trooper saw.

All this means is that the officer would be subpoenaed for court, as would the record of his training. Once the judge is satisfied the officer is a certified radar operator capable of judging your speed with or without radar, you'll probably lose.

The prosecutor is also going to make your record of points and speeding well known to the judge, and between that and the only defense you'd be putting up would essentially be yours versus the trooper's, I don't believe it's worth fighting. I would look into reducing the points if possible. The judge isn't going to care about how fast you think you were going. The judge is going to side with whoever is the most believable.

fmybody

04-22-2010, 10:24 PM

in most cases if you go to fight they drop it down a level regardless.. so u can go and get the unsafe for 0pts... thats all i can say lol it would be a waste to get a lawyer cause it would cost u more than its worth imo

on the other hand u now have a good 8 pts or w/e so i dunno how they will treat you.

i would at least try to fight it, worse comes to worst you get the same ticket you came in with right?

sweetbmxrider

04-23-2010, 07:31 AM

i thought they got rid of unsafe operation of a motor vehicle? anyways, if your insurance doesn't go up for points, you'll be paying way more for the unsafe ticket than the careless ticket.

04-23-2010, 08:26 AM

The surcharges are what I would be worried about.

JW :D

Mark42

04-23-2010, 09:48 AM

I would talk to the prosecutor and see if it can be reduced to a non-moving infraction. Then pay the fine and leave. Otherwise, you are stuck with the points and fine.

Frosty

04-23-2010, 10:16 AM

How is that a careless driving offense? I thought there was a specific infraction for driving in the left lane...can anyone clear that up?

sweetbmxrider

04-23-2010, 10:21 AM

How is that a careless driving offense? I thought there was a specific infraction for driving in the left lane...can anyone clear that up?

officer's discretion. misuse of the left hand lane for passing could be careless. exceeding the speed limit to pass a car doing the speed limit is careless. (not accusing, just saying)

Frosty

04-23-2010, 10:22 AM

That's a pretty big gray area, no?

r0nin89

04-23-2010, 10:37 AM

officer's discretion. misuse of the left hand lane for passing could be careless. exceeding the speed limit to pass a car doing the speed limit is careless. (not accusing, just saying)

How is that careless? If anything depending on the officers prerogative it would be either unsafe or reckless.

Careless at least the way the prosecutor explained it to me doesnt suit a case in which an individual willingly perform the act the officer finds illegal. I was always told that this ticket was pretty much originally for people who were in accidents because they did something stupid (IE someone who slams the gas instead of the brake or just couldnt negotiate a situation) but was doing it willingly. Doing it willingly would be the laws definition of a reckless.

Please would a LEO correct me if I'm wrong because this is how I had it explained to me by a cop, prosecutor, and people who have faced either or.

Frosty

04-23-2010, 10:44 AM

Please would a LEO correct me if I'm wrong because this is how I had it explained to me by a cop, prosecutor, and people who have faced either or.

I'm curious to the answer as well, I'm certainly not an expert but know a little(dad's side of the family is law enforcement so I picked up a little from them before I cut them out of my life, lol).

I just don't see how that's careless driving.

SteveR

04-23-2010, 11:17 AM

How is that a careless driving offense? I thought there was a specific infraction for driving in the left lane...can anyone clear that up?

Yep, there is a specific ticket for driving in the left lane without passing.

sweetbmxrider

04-23-2010, 12:50 PM

Yep, there is a specific ticket for driving in the left lane without passing.

she was passing and she admitted she did not know why the officer pulled her over. she was carelessly not observing her speed. its a catch all or umbrella ticket. there really isn't a true definition and i have gotten one before without it pertaining to an accident or the like.

r0nin89

04-23-2010, 01:13 PM

she was passing and she admitted she did not know why the officer pulled her over. she was carelessly not observing her speed. its a catch all or umbrella ticket. there really isn't a true definition and i have gotten one before without it pertaining to an accident or the like.

Ah ok viewing it from that angle I can understand what your saying.

Firebird92

04-23-2010, 01:18 PM

i don't see any reasoning behind this
you can go on any highway in NJ and clock 50+ cars going 80+ (now i know the law only apply for the one getting pulled over) so it was your turn that day :)

the only way the officer knows she was going "a little fast" is because she passed him but what if he was going 55? 45?. i got pulled over for a 51 in a 50 the judge laughed at the ticket. i would just fight it because in the end there's not prove just the cops word in some cases that enough but a traffic needs some evidenced i believe

sweetbmxrider

04-23-2010, 01:25 PM

Ah ok viewing it from that angle I can understand what your saying.

yeah i'm not saying i'm right, just my take.

i don't see any reasoning behind this
you can go on any highway in NJ and clock 50+ cars going 80+ (now i know the law only apply for the one getting pulled over) so it was your turn that day :)

the only way the officer knows she was going "a little fast" is because she passed him but what if he was going 55? 45?. i got pulled over for a 51 in a 50 the judge laughed at the ticket. i would just fight it because in the end there's not prove just the cops word in some cases that enough but a traffic needs some evidenced i believe

ever see the check box on the bottom of a ticket labeled "PACE"? ya, that works too.

79CamaroDiva

04-23-2010, 02:13 PM

ever see the check box on the bottom of a ticket labeled "PACE"? ya, that works too.

I know for sure he didn't pace me, he was literally in this pack of cars, probably a dozen or so, all going less than the speed limit presumably because he was in it. He was in the right lane, as soon as I saw that he was in it, I finished passing the people and moved over. He didnt get behind me until after I was already out of the left lane. He had to move 3 lanes over to the left (this is where its a 4 lane road, and he was in the farthest right lane) then move one lane right to get behind me along with come out of a bunch of traffic so he's gotta look where he's actually going. I don't think accurate pacing is possible during this type of a maneuver..

And I'm not saying that he couldn't have gotten a speed on me, I'm saying that if he HAD, he wouldn't have pulled me over for it.. and if he really did need to give a ticket for 4 or 5 over, he would have told me what he clocked me at.

The speed is really not the point of this thread though, since he didn't cite me for it.. I'm just curious what kind of a chance I have of fighting a careless driving ticket in court that I (and most others) feel is unwarranted.

Firebird92

04-23-2010, 11:03 PM

yeah i'm not saying i'm right, just my take.

ever see the check box on the bottom of a ticket labeled "PACE"? ya, that works too.

yep I fight every ticket with that "PACE" marked because one a cop always guns it to he's on your bumper, by this time any person normal person would have slowed down or shift to a lower gear. and on top of that i ask in court when was the speedometer last calibrated and since no one every been able to come up with that paper work bye-bye ticket :)

well you can fight it because the cop has to prove u was driving careless which you wasn't .. you can even if the cop does come to court get him to put himself in a hole if he is asked to recall the date in question. in which you pass him and a group of cars then pulled back over to the right lane.

79T/A

04-24-2010, 12:56 AM

its a catch all or umbrella ticket. there really isn't a true definition and i have gotten one before without it pertaining to an accident or the like.

Yup. It's a great tool for when you have someone who commits more than one violation and rather than hammering out multiple tickets, you can just give the one that covers everything. In this instance, there's:

1. Speeding ("You were going a little fast there.") I know you don't believe you were speeding and that he would've just written you for it, but the latter is not necessarily the case.

2. Failure to keep right (Which is a simple way of saying cruising in the left lane) I know you don't believe this either as you were, by your account and perception, passing.

O.P., as I said earlier, fighting the actual violation assigned and actually winning: Chances are slim to none. Talking to the prosecutor and downgrading to unsafe (Which still exists and costs about $400+ and avoids points): Better odds. Whatever you do, please take everything posted here as opinion. If you are thinking of contesting the ticket and going to trial, the best course of action would be to ask the advice of a lawyer.

yep I fight every ticket with that "PACE" marked because one a cop always guns it to he's on your bumper, by this time any person normal person would have slowed down or shift to a lower gear. and on top of that i ask in court when was the speedometer last calibrated and since no one every been able to come up with that paper work bye-bye ticket

well you can fight it because the cop has to prove u was driving careless which you wasn't .. you can even if the cop does come to court get him to put himself in a hole if he is asked to recall the date in question. in which you pass him and a group of cars then pulled back over to the right lane.

The department I work for now frequently calibrates the speedometers by dyno, and the department I worked for years ago did it a few times a year by having a trained officer drive every car in the fleet past another trained officer working a calibrated radar unit. As far as the date in question, it's on the ticket. On the officer's copy of the summons, there's a spot for remarks. The wiser cops use this space to make sure they don't forget details. Remember that if you choose to go to trial, barring physical evidence, it becomes your word against that of someone who routinely testifies in court on the side of the prosecution, as well as that of the prosecutor. In the ten years of doing what I do, I can count on one hand the number of times I saw someone represent themselves on a moving violation and win.

chemicalstylez

04-27-2010, 10:28 AM

Don't fight it. The system is so rigged, its legal extortion. The reason why i changed majors, law enforcement for moving violations is one big scam. Just going to waste your time and money in court... every lawyer knows every judge and their prosecutors. I stopped fighting the legal system long ago, just not worth it. Everyone's bound to cross a cop who's going to screw you for no reason, was just your time.

NastyEllEssWon

04-27-2010, 12:33 PM

it is also up to the prosecutor and judges if they will allow you to plead unsafe to this offense. the 8 points on your license will be reason enough for them to keep the ticket as it stands. also the unsafe statute used to be 1 time in 3 years, but iirc they chopped it down to a one time deal only...if that is correct then you might wanna save that for a larger offense (say a 15+ ticket or something).

if you do fight it the judge is going to look at your record and see that you have a history of motor vehicle violations. when it comes down to your word vs the cop, those 8 points will weigh heavily on him favoring the cop over you.

it sucks and sometimes seems unfair. also you said its a 4 lane road and he had to go over a few lanes to get up to you....which means you had to pass those cars too. the cop might have given you the ticket for carless for changing multiple lanes too quickly or something along the lines which would be covered in the umbrella of ''careless.''

either way i think you are gonna waste your time fighting it. if you can pay the ticket and not go to court it might just be worth it to do that and save yourself the hassle.

79CamaroDiva

04-27-2010, 03:15 PM

also you said its a 4 lane road and he had to go over a few lanes to get up to you....which means you had to pass those cars too. the cop might have given you the ticket for carless for changing multiple lanes too quickly or something along the lines which would be covered in the umbrella of ''careless.''

While I see what you're saying, here you have me misunderstood... I never moved over multiple lanes.. I was in the center left lane going 70, came on a group of cars going about 60 (which is under the speed limit), moved to the left lane to pass, moved back to the center left lane after I was done passing. For all intents and purposes, I passed correctly.. He gave me the ticket for using the left lane..

I also do not currently have 8 points, I have 5 possibly 6, in the last 10 years. My 2nd 2 point ticket came when my first 2 pointer was almost 2 years old, but not quite long enough for the points to be gone. I know points are points, and it sucks to have them, but none of them were crazy moving violations. All speeding, less than 10mph over. They didnt seem worth fighting at the time, that might have just been a bad decision on my part.

91chevywt

04-27-2010, 05:28 PM

It's worth fighting in my opinion. The best you can do is state your case. You've never tried to "get one over" on the system. The best you can do is be honest, and if the state doesn't want to honor that, then at least you'll know you gave it a shot. Might be worth it to seek legal advice. For me it would be more about the principle than the money or points.

Some of the traffic laws throughout the state can get a little rediculous. Along with the points system. I can't wait to get out of this state.

SteveR

04-27-2010, 08:43 PM

I also do not currently have 8 points, I have 5 possibly 6, in the last 10 years. My 2nd 2 point ticket came when my first 2 pointer was almost 2 years old, but not quite long enough for the points to be gone. I know points are points, and it sucks to have them, but none of them were crazy moving violations. All speeding, less than 10mph over. They didnt seem worth fighting at the time, that might have just been a bad decision on my part.

Points are supposed to be erased every 12 months of ticket free driving. I'd see if someone could run your license and tell you exactly how many you currently have.

04-27-2010, 10:05 PM

You can simply call the DMV and they will tell you.

JW :D

NastyEllEssWon

04-28-2010, 12:49 PM

You can simply call the DMV and they will tell you.

JW :D

theyll tell you to come down and pay 5 dollars for your printed out drivers abstract. :nod:

04-28-2010, 01:05 PM

I called trenton and they look it up on the computer and give it to me, I do it every year... I finally got my surcharges done :)

JW :D

r0nin89

04-28-2010, 04:06 PM

While I see what you're saying, here you have me misunderstood... I never moved over multiple lanes.. I was in the center left lane going 70, came on a group of cars going about 60 (which is under the speed limit), moved to the left lane to pass, moved back to the center left lane after I was done passing. For all intents and purposes, I passed correctly.. He gave me the ticket for using the left lane..

I also do not currently have 8 points, I have 5 possibly 6, in the last 10 years. My 2nd 2 point ticket came when my first 2 pointer was almost 2 years old, but not quite long enough for the points to be gone. I know points are points, and it sucks to have them, but none of them were crazy moving violations. All speeding, less than 10mph over. They didnt seem worth fighting at the time, that might have just been a bad decision on my part.

After reading this you need to go fight this. Your saying you were driving down a 4 lane road? As in 4 lanes going the one direction? And you got pulled over for driving in the left for using a middle lane?

Even if thats not that case go and represent yourself. Yes the legal system can be quite rigged BUT its totally untrue that people dont win. Yes you need to be smart, and ask the right questions but its definitely doable. My friends step father completely humiliated an officer in court and tore his bs argument down on a pacing ticket. And to boot hes a bearded rough looking biker.

You honestly need to go in there like you know exactly what your talking about and ask him a bunch of questions you know he wont be able to answer and come off good. Start by asking him how well he recalls the incident. Right off the bat you'll have him against a wall because hes either gotta say not well and look shoddy or say well and need to answer every little nit picky question you choose to ask him.

The point is to make him loose credibility in front of the judge. This is exactly how my friends stepfather won his case. You gotta get them to say they'll be able to provide every little detail and then grill them on it. When they come up short on a question you stick it to them and ask them well if they're unsure of that detail how can they be sure you were really improperly passing?

All that coupled with the fact that your actually right will win your case. And if speed even comes up then all you have to say is if you were really pulling me over for going faster than you than why didnt you properly pace me and issue me the correct ticket?

NastyEllEssWon

04-28-2010, 04:13 PM

I called trenton and they look it up on the computer and give it to me, I do it every year... I finally got my surcharges done :)

JW :D

yeah hq can do it. forgot about that

edit: trying to make a cop look bad in front of a judge is asking for future trouble. its not right, but its a fact of life. if you do fight it, with or without a lawyer, just dress up, be intelligent, speak clearly and with proper grammar and articulate your situation as best as you can to the judge. with a little luck youll garner a little bit of support and beat it

r0nin89

04-28-2010, 09:19 PM

yeah hq can do it. forgot about that

edit: trying to make a cop look bad in front of a judge is asking for future trouble. its not right, but its a fact of life. if you do fight it, with or without a lawyer, just dress up, be intelligent, speak clearly and with proper grammar and articulate your situation as best as you can to the judge. with a little luck youll garner a little bit of support and beat it

I'm not saying you have to try and show your outright trying to make him look bad but the whole point of your argument in court needs to be to discredit his recalling the situation better. Its the only way to win in he said vs she said.

NastyEllEssWon

04-28-2010, 10:48 PM

r0nin89

04-29-2010, 09:01 AM

04-29-2010, 09:33 AM

eh most likely it'll go like this. go to court, check in with the prosecutor at the desk, he'll let you know what the options are then you go sit back down. when you are called up most likely the cop will already have talked to the prosecutor, the prosecutor will speak to the judge, then you will speak to the judge and then the judge will rule on it. its not a trial so you dont get any chance to ask the cop any questions.

Lol thats bs thats not how its "suppose" to go. The right to a trial isnt just speaking with a judge at a separate time from the person defending.

what nasty is describing is amending the charge and then you plead guilty to the amended charge and not the original one, thats where the prosecutor usually lessens the offense of fine.
Courts almost always do all the "guilty" please first, then move on to the "not guilty" please where then a "trial" takes place, just without a jury of your peers. The judge is the jury so most of the time it is more difficult to convince him to rule in your favor. And once you go that route, there no chance at lessening the charge so thats why people plead guilt to lesser offense because its more of a sure thing.
However in a case where you have solid undeniable proof, by all means ask for the trial, but your word vs a cops word is a no brainer in a judges eyes, youll lose.

now melissa, as for your situation. i really dont know what to tell you. at the minimum go try to get it reduced. Youd have to listen to any LEOs on here that have said their opinion since im sure they've been through a similar case and can predict how it would turn out if taken to trial.

jims69camaro

05-06-2010, 02:53 PM

If you are thinking of contesting the ticket and going to trial, the best course of action would be to ask the advice of a lawyer.

this is the best advice, so far.

now, to make sure we're all on the same page:
(UPDATED THROUGH P.L. 2010, ch. 6, and JR 16 of P.L.2009)
TITLE 39 MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC REGULATION
39:4-97. Careless driving
39:4-97. A person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving.

there is also:
39:4-97.1. Slow speeds as blocking traffic
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

but, since we're not talking about slow speeds, disregard 39:4-97.1. so, a person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving.

i'd like to know what property or person she was likely to endanger or did endanger. yes, it is an umbrella ticket, meant to describe a manner of driving that could encompass driving fast (would likely endanger those going slower than her, if above the limit then those doing the limit). BUT... i don't see her driving without caution (she was aware of the cop and the pack of cars he was in) and circumspection (she moved over immediately after passing) or in a manner likely to endanger anyone. 5 mph over the limit is not endangering anyone, as a tap on the brake pedal is enough to slow you to the limit. this, i believe, is the reason that a cop will not usually write a citation for vehicles passing at that speed (the other reason is simply a change in tire can put you 5 mph over the limit, even though your speedometer says the limit). they are looking for the people who are a danger to others. melissa, in this respect, was not endangering anyone nor was she likely to endanger anyone if she had kept doing the same speed.

bottom line: the cop was wrong in writing this ticket. fight it. with or without a lawyer, although with a lawyer you have a better chance of winning. now, it comes down to how much you want to pay. most traffic lawyers that i know of charge $500+ for a court appearance, so i guess it comes down to who you want to pay... the lawyer or the court?

and, of course, i am not a lawyer. i am merely a private citizen with an above average knowledge/interpretation of traffic laws. the best advice, as stated, is to seek out the counsel of an attorney. the above stated is not to be thought of as fact; merely my opinion of the circumstances as stated.

NastyEllEssWon

05-06-2010, 03:47 PM

the really bad part is the grey area of the law that is open to interpretation and intent. thats a huge area :lol:

79CamaroDiva

05-07-2010, 11:53 AM

r0nin89

05-07-2010, 12:03 PM

so... i went for the 1st court date.. the prosecutor offered me unsafe driving, which is that bs where they get more money but you get no points and you can only use it 2 or 3 times in your life.. I'm not paying $500, i feel like that's just them trying to weasel more money out for no reason.. They tried to call the State Police to get the officer that wrote the tickets statement, couldn't get ahold of the barracks.. so now I wait for another date. If I go to court 2 or 3 more times and it gets dismissed, I'll be happy. Municipal court always makes me feel better about my life anyhow :lol:

If you plead not guilty, did you?, and the cop didnt respond they should give you ONE date. If the cop doesnt show or respond to defend his giving you the ticket it should get dismissed.

Dont let them give you a date to show up on and then when your case gets called them tell you theyre rescheduling if the cops not there. If they try to pull that **** call them on it and tell them that he had an obligation to be there, your making your case, and that you guess thats the only side of the story thats going to be heard that day.

SteveR

05-07-2010, 01:29 PM

If you plead not guilty, did you?, and the cop didnt respond they should give you ONE date. If the cop doesnt show or respond to defend his giving you the ticket it should get dismissed.

Dont let them give you a date to show up on and then when your case gets called them tell you theyre rescheduling if the cops not there. If they try to pull that **** call them on it and tell them that he had an obligation to be there, your making your case, and that you guess thats the only side of the story thats going to be heard that day.

Exactly.

And the court trying to get more money? Welcome to NJ :lol:

jims69camaro

05-15-2010, 09:25 AM

Municipal court always makes me feel better about my life anyhow :lol:

i pay attention to what others are doing in municipal court. some of them are so funny to watch.

ryanfx

05-15-2010, 02:23 PM

If you plead not guilty, did you?, and the cop didnt respond they should give you ONE date. If the cop doesnt show or respond to defend his giving you the ticket it should get dismissed.

Dont let them give you a date to show up on and then when your case gets called them tell you theyre rescheduling if the cops not there. If they try to pull that **** call them on it and tell them that he had an obligation to be there, your making your case, and that you guess thats the only side of the story thats going to be heard that day.

this.

I think you messed up by saying you'll come back =/

As far as feeling better about yourself.. oh yeah. The person before me in court was facing fines for being drunk, high, AND underage while driving with no license. I was like alriiiight I can follow this =D