I'm really kicking myself for not....

[Frosty]

....investing in Ford. Another $2.6 billion in quarterly profits. The stock is up to $12.64/share prior to today.....ughhhh

A few grand would have turned into something happy nice.

[LS1Hawk]

Stop reminding me.

[Frosty]

Oh and in before Al spins it to show that Ford isn't doing well. :D:D:D:D

[Tsar]

GM rocks, Ford sucks :rock:

[Untamed]

Worship the Ford Fusion and Mustang for verily have they pulled Ford ahead in thy game.

[Mark B]

The Fusion is a really nice car. Espically for the price. Im considering getting the wife one.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Ford is definitely on its way up in the world. I like my Exploder - it's lacking in power, but I have not done a thing to it outside of tires/oil change/etc. It rides stiffer and better Trailblazers of the same year. It's also quiet as hell.

[BonzoHansen]

This thread makes Al cry.

[Frosty]

The Fusion is a really nice car. Espically for the price. Im considering getting the wife one.

Yeah my mom has an '09...she loves it. I hate Ford but I have to say it IS a nice car. Decent quality, a good amount of options and for the price it's a lot of car for the cost.

This thread makes Al cry.

:rofl:

[sweetbmxrider]

chrysler sucks

[Frosty]

chrysler sucks

Master of the Obvious ;)

[Knipps]

I "bought" Ford stock in a mock stock market in spring of last year. I haven't really touched it since then.

Here's a screenshot of today's numbers :lol:
http://i32.tinypic.com/2uyhwdu.jpg

[Blacdout96]

How U.S. steel around now that China took over much of that? :lol: and it seems to be doing well. i love my camaro, but I do enjoy fords, IMO I think they are of better quality then GM cars.

[BigAls87Z28]

Ford is making money, no doubt. Still has a much larger debt load then GM.

[91chevywt]

Ford is making money, no doubt. Still has a much larger debt load then GM.

How much of GM's debt load is owed to the federal government?

[BigAls87Z28]

Owed to the goverment? The goverment needs to make up something like 35-40 billion dollars, which will be mostly if not all, with some saying more, in return when the IPO launches, for purchasing 60% of GM in Chapt 11.
Chap 11 dissolved a large chunk of GM's debt.
Also remember that while Ford did not take a government bail out, they did mortage the entire company to banks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/27cnd-ford.html

They also took 5.9 billion from the government, but not with the same fanfare and hype that GM and Chrysler did.

[Kat]

Go Boeing! :D

[bubba428]

I bought a Ford.........

[91chevywt]

You'll have to excuse me for still being a little bitter about all the bailouts and the notion of a business being 'too big to fail.' If I was producing a product that a customer quite frankly didn't want, the government wouldn't prop up 60% of my business...because I'm not big enough. GM's time was up. At least Ford had enough forsight to put together enough capital to research, develop, and market a product that Americans want. There's a reason why Ford's shares are rising in value. I think a lot of people like myself are still a little bitter about the bailout and the national debt as a whole.

[Frosty]

I won't comment too much since it's brushing the no politics rule but I completely agree....

[BigAls87Z28]

You'll have to excuse me for still being a little bitter about all the bailouts and the notion of a business being 'too big to fail.' If I was producing a product that a customer quite frankly didn't want, the government wouldn't prop up 60% of my business...because I'm not big enough. GM's time was up. At least Ford had enough forsight to put together enough capital to research, develop, and market a product that Americans want. There's a reason why Ford's shares are rising in value. I think a lot of people like myself are still a little bitter about the bailout and the national debt as a whole.

America didnt want? Not to bring you back into reality...,but GM's problem wasnt sales. They were still #1 in America. Thier problem was making money per vehicle.
Ford didnt put any capital together! They put the whole company for sale to the banks to raise 18 billion!
When GM had a chance to do that, the banks were already failing and they had no where to turn.
Ford's shares are rising based on mentality like yours, a pure PR spectical.

Many of you dont recall nor gave a crap 2-3 years ago when Ford was doing this. Ford was on its heals, its stock sinking to all time lows, while GM was pumping out great product and striking one of the most historic deals with the UAW of all time, giving GM the ability to be compeditive in the market vs the imports.
As of 2007, GM had award winning products one after another. Malibu, CTS, Enclave, Acadia, Corvette, Tahoe, Suburban, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, new Escalade, one after another with more coming. Volt, Camaro, Equinox, LaCrosse, Cruze, all the new Opels like the Insigna and Astra. Then you had the all new Holden line up, keeping Holden #1 in sales in Australia.
At the end of 2007, GM's stock was at one of the highest it has been in a long time, over 45 bucks a share, while Ford was tripping in single digits.

Ford's rise in share prices is because of perception. They still cary the largest debt load out of all of the Big 3. They still havent produced world class product, offering just mild refreshes to keep up.
You can say Im biased and whatever makes you feel better about your opinion, but the truth is that the only thing Ford is doing is winning the PR fight over GM.
BTW, GM is still posting increase in sales, even when compared to the company 2-3 years ago whent hey had twice the brands.
GM is making money as well, but they dont have stock prices to point to to show their "great job".

[sweetbmxrider]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wGr8njEWjtI/SS2OrcMhqPI/AAAAAAAABIY/77DW_1szodU/s400/deer+cake.jpg

[Knipps]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/hotkizzle/DSCN5395.jpg

Ooh Cake!

(SFW Version)

[Frosty]

Al, you talk about debt load and all...fine...Ford mortgaged the house, the farm, every pen, pencil and paperclip...you're absolutely right. However they didn't **** over dealers, suppliers and creditors in the process. You do know when the government came riding in on their chariot to save the "old GM" they basically forced GM's debtors to take pennies on the dollar right? You know they basically strong-armed them into taking whatever they decided or else they were getting NOTHING right?

So yes, Ford does carry the highest debt load out of the 3 and still has a ton of work to do...however they didn't have an organized crime syndicate(that's pretty much how I view both parties now lol) muscling people off of the debt. Just sayin'....

I wish I could have someone come in and tell Capital One and a few other of my credit cards that I'm going to pay them 5% of what I owe them and they're gonna like it :( That would be sweet! :rofl:

[BigAls87Z28]

You can do that. All that debt relief you see commercials for are doing something similar to that for the person.
I hate that stupid comparision. You would either take out a reverse mortage on the house and lose all your equity hoping that you can pay it back, or you can fix your problems and settle in court your debts.

The government is an organized crime synidcate? What does that make the banks that hold the note to Ford Motor Company? Swell bunch of guys and gals? Shesh...talk about picking your points

Point is that Ford has this squeeky clean image that it shouldnt have. It also has a few billion dollars in goverment funding, but I guess since its smaller number, it doesnt count.

Ford, as well as Chrysler, cut lots of dealers, and workers. They also shafted some suppliers. Again, everyone acts as if GM was the one and only with problems. It shows ignorance on the subject.
Amazing....
And GM regained lots of dealers due to the same "organized crime syndicate" that got them through Chap 11.

Again- Ford and GM took similar routes in how they could regain and maintain thier solvency. Ford went to Banks, which then got bailed out by the government, GM just skipped the middle man.

[Frosty]

GM regained a some of those dealers because they were forced to, my dealership included ;)

Al, face it, Ford was better prepared for the collapse than the other 2, PERIOD. Maybe you're right, maybe it IS image but again, just another area where GM fails...more of the same. BTW, those debt relief commercials are completely different compared to this. Also, you're trying to make the comparison of Ford getting bailout money because the banks they used EVENTUALLY got bailout money? :rofl: C'mon....really man? The deal was cut in 2006 with those banks/investment firms, Citi,Goldman and J.P. didn't get bailout $$$ until years later. MAYBE you can make the argument that since Ford had a revolving credit door and still had fund tied up with those firms in '09 you could make the argument they took "bailout" money but that's a big maybe. And yes, the government is an organized crime organization, we're not talking about banks right now so deflecting to that topic is irrelevant.

Now I'm not one of those 'tards that says I'm never going to buy a GM product because of the bailout...however I can understand why people feel that way. I just won't buy a product with that f'in 3.6 motor in it :rofl:. Three have come in for timing chains in the last month and a half....baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad things happen when those chains snap on those motors.

[BigAls87Z28]

I heard its becoming a problem. I dunno if its an oil problem, or a metal problem.

It is one in the same. Whatever could be said about GM, could be said about Ford. Yes, Ford was in a better spot come late 08 then GM was, but GM was in a better spot then Ford was in 06. Everyone, like normal, worries about the now, and not the long term.
The reason GM went to the government was not because people didn't want to buy their cars, its because banks could no longer loan money. Hell, Ford had to put up the whole company in order to get enough funds to stay alive, and still ended up taking 6 billion from the government!
Im not trying to say that GM comes out clean in any of this, but I dont think Ford gets a pass at anything. For any of the automakers to say that they built a SINGLE car in America without tax-payer dollars involved is the most ignorant statement in the history of the automobile. At least with GM, the government could actually see a ROI.

Again, GM= Bad, Ford= God. I get it. GM and Ford are both on a current product offensive, with GM launching a few more cars then Ford.
Ford has right now, the Fiesta, Explorer (that was shown yesterday) and the new Focus.
GM will be launching a lot of new cars, Regal and 2 more variants, Cruze, Volt, XTS, refreshed pick ups and SUV's, and will probably be showing a new Malibu in detroit.
The only one still in question is Chrysler. So far they have the new Grand Cherokee, but the new 2nd gen 300 and Charger will be a good test. I hope they have a better mid-sizer this time around. The Sebring and Avenger are both straight-to-Avis special

[T69SS]

How did i know this thread would end up like this... :lol:

[Frosty]

I don't even talk about Chrysler any more...they're dead in the water.

It's not GM=bad Ford=God. However it's a big thing that Ford didn't come crying to the government, to me, personally, that's huge. The fact that GM was being investigated/question whether they paid back to the bailout loans is huge.

I don't hate GM, that's all I've pretty much driven in my life aside from the Tbird. I work for a GM dealer, I want them to succeed just as much as the next guy, I'm still loyal to them but I'm not gonna sit here and act like they're different right now, I'm not going to act like they've changed because they haven't...not yet.

[91chevywt]

The whole point of this is that Ford shares are up because the public sees a government bailout of GM and Chrysler, but they want to buy an American car. Ford comes out looking like the winner while noone knows, or cares what GM or Chrysler is doing except for the people that will already buy GM and Chrysler. The American public doesn't care to look into the specifics of it all, as theres too many other things to worry about in life for the average person. You can argue all you want about specifics, but in the end it just doesn't matter, and probably isn't going to change anyone's mind.

[BigAls87Z28]

But it is. GM is seeing very successful sales numbers out of all of GM's new products, meaning that people are still going to GM. Equinox and Camaro are two very good products that people cant get enough of. LaCrosse is another.
Ford is doing a good job too, and riding this anti-government wave a bit as well. I dont see people pulling their money out of bailed out banks, and I dont see people not believe in GM products. They were good before the bail out, they are still good after.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Gm's numbers arent up really. The numbers just seem up because the customers the are just buying the main brands cars...instead of one of the sister cars from pontiac/saturn etc. its just a consolidation of sales

[BigAls87Z28]

The numbers are up when compared to last year when they had 8 brands instead of 4.
GM's does publish the number of increased sales vs the 4 core brands of last year too.
Example is last month or the one before, GM was up like 10%, but when you compare Chevy, Buick, GMC and Caddy to a year ago, they were up 30%

[Frosty]

Got the motor out of the Enclave....holy Jeebus...talk about carnage. Timing chain snaped while the customer was doing 40mph. Cracked one of the cam bearings in half...snapped 4 rocker arms...this was on the back head. I'm really afraid to see everything once my guys completely tear the motor down.

I'm really disappointed in this 3.6...it's a good motor as far as power/fuel economy but this is happening more and more it seems(not only here at my dealership but I was reading some more about it)

[BigAls87Z28]

I've read about it here and there but it is starting to become a larger problem. I read one place is because of oil? Either wrong stuff or not being changed on time. Can't possibly be like this all the time.

[Stupercharged]

I bought a Ford.........

Then I'm sorry for your loss

[Knipps]

don't be, it probably didn't last very long. He was just taking it off the road for us

[Frosty]

I've read about it here and there but it is starting to become a larger problem. I read one place is because of oil? Either wrong stuff or not being changed on time. Can't possibly be like this all the time.

I would agree with that in isolated cases, unfortunately these aren't isolated cases and I would certainly hope GM doesn't use that as an excuse, they're in essence, calling their customers idiots lol.

These are cheap fixes either, well over $6K+ in warranty repairs per incident...scary stuff. I think my guys are pulling off the heads today...I guess we'll see what else is trashed.

[Frosty]

Front head is fine....back head...yeah.....the valves looked like they got beat by the LAPD.

[deadtrend1]

Front head is fine....back head...yeah.....the valves looked like they got beat by the LAPD.

:lol: I hope someone got a video of that ... :wink:

[bubba428]

don't be, it probably didn't last very long. He was just taking it off the road for us

Actually its one of the best running cars I've had. and the only one with working A/C. 95 T-bird LX with a 4.6. I still have an F-body too, 2 of them actually.