Header leak help

[SeanC]

Hey guys,

I FINALLY got my header project to the point of being able to start the car (just refilling coolant and everything now). The car started right up, but the headers are leaking LIKE CRAZY. They're leaking to the point where I can stick my hand by the exhaust ports and feel each cylinder fire. I bought Mr. Gasket copper gaskets with the misconception that I was buying "the better" gaskets. Now that I have looked into it more, I hear they dont seal for anything. The flanges for the headers were straight when I put a straight edge on them, so I don't think thats the problem...Could the gaskets not be sealing that badly where I could feel each leak at the exhaust port?

Can't believe I have to unbolt these things again....lol. Thanks for the help!

[BarneyMobile]

When I had my LT1 Z28, I had great luck with the Felpro header gaskets.

[LTb1ow]

Could try some copper RTV on em, but at that point I would just get the felpros.

[transmaro93]

iv had good luck in the past with the mr gasket copper ones... are you sure they are the correct port shape... what kind of engine is it?

[LTb1ow]

iv had good luck in the past with the mr gasket copper ones... are you sure they are the correct port shape... what kind of engine is it?

Its an LT1.

[transmaro93]

make sure you have the "D" shaped port gaskets, because unless you didnt tighten the bolts even the worst gaskets will seal for a little while and your saying you can feel the pressure leaking on every cyl... something is deff wrong...

[deadtrend1]

make sure you have the "D" shaped port gaskets, because unless you didnt tighten the bolts even the worst gaskets will seal for a little while and your saying you can feel the pressure leaking on every cyl... something is deff wrong...

I was thinking along the lines that he may have cross threaded some bolts.

[SeanC]

Definitly didn't cross thread any bolts, and the gaskets are D-shaped...I did some more research and I think I may have figured out the problem. Mr. Gasket says that they need to be installed with the externally embossed "D" shape facing the headers (didn't make sense to me). Well, since that didn't work, I flipped them around and put the embossed part towards the head. WOW it actually works!!! I'm not convinced they are sealing perfect yet, but its definitly sealing a million times better than it was. Going to keep tightening the bolts after a couple of heat cycles and see how it goes. It was running so rich on one side when it was leaking that there were flames coming out of the open header :rofl: Kind of scared me a bit....lol

Has anybody had a problem with the pacesetter y-pipe? I started putting it together and it seems off. The bracket on the passengers side section i'm assuming should line up with the factory hanger coming off the Trans to put two bolts through. Well, its not even close....Its a few inches off, and I dont see any way of moving it over that much. Also, it looks like i'm going to have to cut a few inches off of the pipe between the ORY and my catback (LM II) to get it to fit. I'm guessing everyone else with pacesetters has had to do the same?

Thank you!

[JL8Jeff]

Nobody has a y-pipe that fits well. Don't even try to bolt the bracket, just get the y-pipe aligned the best you can. I put dual 3" cats in my old 96 and after I was happy with the fit/alignment I went to muffler shop and they welded the cats up. I used band clamps instead of their crush clamps so I could remove the y-pipe if I needed to. And I had a set of Felpro gaskets blow out so they aren't any better. Hopefully you can get them to seal, but you may not want to clamp the y-pipe too tight until you know for sure.

[SeanC]

Thats a relief to hear. I'm about fed up with Pacesetter to be honest. The threads on their AIR fittings werent right, and now their y-pipe is crap. Guess thats what you get for $400..

I was thinking about getting band clamps. They are just standard 3" right? Are you not able to get the pipes apart when you use crush clamps? I thought it did the same thing as a band clamp, just was a different design.

Any comment about cutting the pipe between the ORY and catback? Just want to make sure I actually need to before cutting everything up! haha

[deadtrend1]

.... It was running so rich on one side when it was leaking that there were flames coming out of the open header :rofl: Kind of scared me a bit....lol

o2 sensor that close to open air will get a incorrect reading and cause that.

Has anybody had a problem with the pacesetter y-pipe? I started putting it together and it seems off. The bracket on the passengers side section i'm assuming should line up with the factory hanger coming off the Trans to put two bolts through. Well, its not even close....Its a few inches off, and I dont see any way of moving it over that much. Also, it looks like i'm going to have to cut a few inches off of the pipe between the ORY and my catback (LM II) to get it to fit. I'm guessing everyone else with pacesetters has had to do the same?


I didn't bother to use the hanger with the Y Pipe since it was so far off

[SeanC]

Alright, guess i'm not using the hanger! haha

What kind of band clamps do you guys suggest? I'm guessing the rear one will be 3", but what about where the y-pipe connects to the headers?

[LTb1ow]

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/images/clamp_band_150.jpg

Best thing to use short of welding em.

[SeanC]

Who makes them? Summit has a ton of clamps, but some are $7 and then others are $30 a piece...

[LTb1ow]

I get mine from NAPA, 10 bucks a pop

[JL8Jeff]

Some of the band clamps are stainless so they cost more. I would look for the band clamps that are "stepped" so one side goes on the outside pipe and is a little wider than the side that goes on the inside pipe. I actually cut the I-pipe on the cat-back and used a 3" butt connector. It seemed crazy to run dual 3" into the 2-3/4" knockdown at the front end of the I-pipe.

[RamAir95TA]

I have used the Felpro 1406s on MAC mids (2001 - 2004), Jet Hot long tubes (2004 - 2009), and now LPPs (2009 - present) without one header leak. Ever.

[SeanC]

Okay....I just finished replacing the Mr. Gasket copper gaskets with percy seal-4 good gaskets. They looked a lot better, and was sure that they would seal the leak up. I installed them, let it heat up, and made sure all the bolts stayed tight (none of them loosened). I drove the car for a while, came back, and checked the bolts again (again, not loose). The thing is STILL ticking away. I really dont know what to do; I guess my next step would be the felpro gaskets but i'm really getting tired of changing gaskets..

The AIR connection on each header is a bit loose. I'm going to have to get a washer to take up the extra slack to tighten it up..... Would this being a little loose cause an exhaust leak (or what sounds like one)?

[LTb1ow]

I would first get those AIR fittings nice and tight before replacing any other gaskets.

[transmaro93]

^^^ agreed those will tick tick tick if they are loose enough to leak...

[NastyEllEssWon]

this is the reason that everyone gets them without emissions

[SeanC]

Alright, that will be my next step.....And yes, I feel retarded for getting them with emissions. I had all intentions of running CATS and figured I'd keep emissions, but now of course the CATS didn't make it on. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

The copper gaskets were definitly leaking just by looking at them, but now the ticking almost seems worse with the Percys....Really hoping that tightening the AIR connections up will fix it.

Thanks for the help!

[LTb1ow]

Alright, that will be my next step.....And yes, I feel retarded for getting them with emissions. I had all intentions of running CATS and figured I'd keep emissions, but now of course the CATS didn't make it on. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

The copper gaskets were definitly leaking just by looking at them, but now the ticking almost seems worse with the Percys....Really hoping that tightening the AIR connections up will fix it.

Thanks for the help!

Don't feel bad, I did that as well, live and learn. I would say swap to felpros though if the AIR fittings turn out not to be the culprit.

[JL8Jeff]

I started with Felpro's and they blew out and leaked. I switched to the Percy high temp carbon gaskets and never had a problem after that. Make sure you don't have a leak somewhere else like the AIR fittings or the y-pipe connections though. The Felpro 1406 is really for ported heads and has very little material on the edges so be careful if you switch to them. These are the Felpro 1406.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/FPP-1406.jpg

-

[SeanC]

I installed band clamps on the y-pipe and they look like theyre sealing well.....Would a leak at the y-pipe cause the engine to tick? The tick is definitly coming from the engine bay. I'll have to fix the AIR fittings. I believe it was you JL8Jeff that said you had a similar problem getting the AIR fittings to tighten down (and had to add washers to make up the excess room). Guess I really didn't think about exhaust gases leaking out of there. I'm just praying that the gaskets are sealing on the header flange and the sound is coming from somewhere else...

[Pampered-Z]

Haven't followed this entire issue,

What headers are you running? If you have the #1 cyclinder as a slip fit joint ( Jethot, Macs for sure ) they can leak. You need to pull the tube out, use a good bead of O2 safe sealer and then slip the tubes together.

Also make sure yu didn't crack the EGR tube or it's not loose at the intake?

Remove the hoses from the AIR Check valves/fittings and run the car, if the check valve is bad and exhaust is pushing past the valve that will also sound like an header leak.

If you do switch to Felpro gaskets a strongly recommend you spray them with copper coat before installing. The Felpro gaskets do not have much material on the ends and it's fairly commong for them to blow out at te ends.

[SeanC]

The headers are Pacesetter longtubes (with emissions obviously). I dont think the exhaust is leaking through the check valve. The actual fitting that screws onto the header is not bottoming out and forcing the tube tight against the fitting (I dont know the technical name for this type of fitting). If I grab the metal tube, I can move it up and down a little bit....Obviously if there is a check valve to keep exhaust gases from going back to the AIR pump, then this tells me that there IS exhaust leaking out of this fitting if it is not tight. Not sure why I didn't think of this previously. I'm not completely convinced that the headers are sealing properly at the flanges, but sounds to me like the AIR fittings are definitly part of the problem...

[JL8Jeff]

The actual fitting that screws onto the header is not bottoming out and forcing the tube tight against the fitting (I dont know the technical name for this type of fitting). If I grab the metal tube, I can move it up and down a little bit....Obviously if there is a check valve to keep exhaust gases from going back to the AIR pump, then this tells me that there IS exhaust leaking out of this fitting if it is not tight. Not sure why I didn't think of this previously. I'm not completely convinced that the headers are sealing properly at the flanges, but sounds to me like the AIR fittings are definitly part of the problem...

Yeah, the Pacesetter emission's headers I put on my old 96 SS didn't have enough threads on the AIR fittings so the stock AIR pipes wouldn't stay on tight. I put a washer on top of each fitting that was small enough to fit inside the AIR fitting and that took up the slack and still sealed it up. It's surprising they still haven't fixed this issue but they probably don't make the headers anymore and it's just leftover stock at this point.

[SeanC]

Well there are plenty of threads in my case...I have absolutely no idea why (and pacesetter claims the same), but the threads on the header do not match up well to the threads on the AIR fitting. I dont know if its the coating messing up the threads or what, but after finally getting the threads to grab, I had to crank down on it with a huge wrench to screw it down. It gets harder and harder, and i'm afraid to crank it down anymore with fear of breaking the welds on headers....If I could go back, I would NEVER buy from pacesetter again. They may be a good "bang for the buck" header, but they're quality really sucks....I'm hoping I can get a washer thick enough to take up the excess room.

Did you ever run your car with the AIR fittings not completely seated? If so, did it sound like you had an exhaust leak?

[JL8Jeff]

Did you ever run your car with the AIR fittings not completely seated? If so, did it sound like you had an exhaust leak?

It will definitely leak if the AIR pipe is not seated all the way on the fitting. It's basically a compression fitting. Even with the washer, I had to make sure the pipe was sitting flat and flush on the washer.

[SeanC]

So I got the AIR fittings tight...The EGR connection is leaking like crazy though (God why did I get emissions :-x ). I unbolted the EGR pipe from the header and the gasket was hard as a rock....It was leaking out the upper part, the opposite end of where the single bolt is. I'm trying to find a replacement gasket; any ideas where I could find one? Rock auto doesnt seem to have one. I'm hoping that I can get a new gasket, put some high-temp RTV on it, and tighten it enough to seal it up. Why in the world would that only have one bolt at the bottom?

[JL8Jeff]

That EGR pipe was a real PITA to get hooked up. The EGR tube is flexible and you should be able to bend it enough to get it lined up straight to stay flat and seal up properly. The stock cast iron manifolds have plenty of strength to keep it straight compared to headers which get welded manually and may be out of alignment. NAPA should have that gasket, did you check the website?

[LTb1ow]

I have an EGR gasket me thinks, I can look around and if I have it, just mail it to ya.

[SeanC]

Napa doesnt show the gasket on their site (going to a store in the morning). They only seem to have the gasket on the manifold side online. I can bend the tube easily enough to get it in to the header...its really hard to tell if its seated properly when its all bolted up. I noticed when I removed it this afternoon that the end of the tube looked deformed...almost like it got deformed from the heat escaping out (I dont remember the tube looking like this before).

Lts1ow, I unfortunately need to get this buttoned up by Wednesday morning (moving down the Maryland), but could you check to see if you have one anyways? I would really appreciate it. If Napa doesn't have the gasket, i'm going to buy some gasket material and some kind of high-temp RTV and make my own...I'm praying I can get this sealed up...If not, I guess i'm making the road trip to Maryland with it leaking.

I dont think there is any way I can bend the flange coming off the header..There is barely any room to work, even with the starter removed. Any other ideas?

[Tru2Chevy]

If Matt drops it in an envelope for you tomorrow, you should have it Tuesday and can fix it that night.

- Justin

[SeanC]

Good point...I just found out from someone that the stock manifold didn't use a gasket, so i'm not going to find one in the stores (couldn't remember if there was one or not). Let me know if you have one Matt!

[LTb1ow]

Sorry to say, I have the intake to EGR tube gasket, not the header to tube one.

My bad man..

[SeanC]

Its all good, thanks for looking for me! I'm going to buy some RTV in the morning and give that a shot. I dont know how im going to get RTV up in the but ill figure it out haha. Praying this works...

[RamAir95TA]

I was going to say...you don't need a gasket. Just some sensor-safe RTV.

[JL8Jeff]

I think I ended up ubloting the EGR from the manifold and made sure it bolted to the header nice and straight/flush before reconneting it to the manifold. Since the manifold side has a gasket that can be replaced. I remember how tight it was back there and the Auto trans tube gets in the way as well.