help with my combo

[Flippindabird]

im going dirt cheap bang for the buck but i want the car to be as fast as possible this year and next year im gonna spend some real money on a 383 with 23degree heads...

350 4 bolt vortec long block
LT1 cam/ lt4 hot cam now
howards matching valve springs
cc Qjetand matching distributor(LG4 car)
hooker 2055Rs w/ hollow 3" cat and slp LM2 for 4th gens

700r4 w/ transgo shift kit and 2600stall converter

3.23 posi from a 98 formula
245/55/16 nittos all around
totally stock suspension

my goal is to be solidly in the 13s with the stock suspension(13.9/13.8 or better just no 14.2s could have done that with the 305)

my question is about intake choice
should i use an edelbrock performer rpm
or a GMPP daul plane Qjet egr

the gmpp will run me about 125 and i can probably get the rpm for 85
-the gmpp will allow the vehicle to look stock easily passing the pa "visual inspection"
-the rpm is less money and but its not going to get me through inspection easily ill have to bribe someone
-the gmpp is based on the performer intake so i will make power up to 5000rpm
-the rpm obviously makes it 1500 to 6500

which intake will make the car faster in the 1/4?
keep in mind the lt1 cam has like 202/208 dur and 447/459 lift
will the amount of low end lost by the rpm make the car slower?
will the amount of top end lost by the gmpp make it slower?
i HAVE to answer these questions or im dead in the water, i dont want to waste money because like i said next year i will have a completely different combo and im gonna be selling all this or i would buy them both and test them to see, thanks for your help

[sweetbmxrider]

just an observation, why spend the money twice? why not add things that can be used in the next build? drivetrain, rear, and suspension work never hurts and if the right parts are bought; they can be used in the next build.

[btownws6]

just an observation, why spend the money twice? why not add things that can be used in the next build? drivetrain, rear, and suspension work never hurts and if the right parts are bought; they can be used in the next build.

agreed

[LTb1ow]

And why an LT1 cam? There are so many better cams out there for SBC's....

[WildBillyT]

Are you running Vortec heads or L98s? This post and your other one asking for a machine shop are not consistent.

[LTb1ow]

If you are dead set on an LT1 cam, I have one with ~75k on it in my closet if you want it.

[Pampered-Z]

And why an LT1 cam? There are so many better cams out there for SBC's....

My first thought was that cam is going to be too small for a carb'd 383. Not enough duration to feed it in the upper RPMs. It's going to "nose over" 5,000 RPMs.

Also we need to know what you are tageting for CR, and what RPM you're looking to turn.

Also intake is less of an issue with a loose convertor and 3:23 gears. The car will most likely be soft in the lower RPMs.

[Flippindabird]

wow thats alot... i have a set of l98 heads and i have a vortec longblock i want to use the l98 heads but im thinking about selling both heads and getting aftermarketones. supension etc is done for now. only doing the engine im a family man and most of my money gets spent on toys the whole family can enjoy(boats, jetskis,4wheelers other cars etc) i havent driven the firebird for 3 years and i want to drive it at the track this summer, it needs suspension and new tires/brakes but they are fine to run 13s at a dragstrip for now, the lt1 cam is the cheapest cam with the most lift and you can use it with stock heads with no guide mods ive got like 400$ in everything im trying to go bang for buck not buck for bang. next year i will have a forged 383 built with a custom cam taller gears and possibly a manual tranny as well as supension tires and LS1 brakes all around then N2O hope this answers everything if not ill go look... basically im thinking that most ppl would say the rpm is the better choice correct?

[WildBillyT]

Well, I am very satisfied with my Vortec combo. Runs very strong and was pretty cheap to build. You may want to consider running yours.

[Flippindabird]

i am going to run the vortecs this year but next year im gonna have aluminum heads on a 383 the vortec heads are very good, everyone uses them, thats one of the reasons i dont want to, but i also want to drop weight, the car is a heavy sob and i want to put as much aluminum on her as poss i want it to be fast and handle good and heavy isnt really in the requirements for either of those things

[WildBillyT]

i am going to run the vortecs this year but next year im gonna have aluminum heads on a 383 the vortec heads are very good, everyone uses them, thats one of the reasons i dont want to, but i also want to drop weight, the car is a heavy sob and i want to put as much aluminum on her as poss i want it to be fast and handle good and heavy isnt really in the requirements for either of those things

So which heads are you having the machine work done to? Are they not for this current engine?

[Flippindabird]

does it matter??? im going to run vortecs this year and if the machine work was cheaer id probably have them done but since its so expensive i think im just gonna get a set of aftermarket heads

[Flippindabird]

and no the when i created the machine shop thread i was actually thinking next year, but then this vortec long block came up and now ive got something that should be able to run 13s this year with very little cash outlay... like i said though if it was cheap id get it done to the vortecs and then find a GOOD used cam cheap

[Flippindabird]

i know this is gonna kill most of you guys, thats why im posting it lol :moon:
im gonna use the STOCK vortec springs with the LT1 cam:-P, after talking to the po he told me the heads were rebuilt with new springs and seals about 30k ago(also a "better cam" was used), when i inspected them, they look brand new, the seals too, and since this was in a suburban, i highly doubt it saw alot of the upper rpms for an extended periodthe timing chain looked new too. so last night i saw in the scoggin dickey catalog that the stock L31 heads are good to .450" lift, i called scoggin dickey and said "can i use an LT1 cam with the stock l31 springs, he said "youll be fine. the LT1 cam is only .459 lift and the springs are good to .460, itll probably see a few more rpm with better springs and be safer in the long run but if your only gonna use them for a little while you should be fine"
so lets see how cheap i can go 13s on a basically junk motor ! :nod:

[Flippindabird]

new question, what should the redline be on this engine? im thinking 5600rpm??
sound right?

[JerzLT1]

just spin it to 6500, thats what i did with my stock bottom end LT1 ;)

[Flippindabird]

lol yeah i have a stock bottom end with unknown mileage, GM says 5700 for a stock LT1 thats funny though, drive it like you stole it huh? if mine breaks i have to buy another one:wink:

[Flippindabird]

NAh F it! 7k all the way!:-P

[Featherburner]

6 grand should be fine.

[HeadlessNorseman]

from this thread it doesnt seem like you really understand what your in for. First off... a vortec 350 is not a "junk" motor. You could easily pull 400+ crank hp out of that thing with a little machine work on the heads for the cam lift, a bigger cam, and the right intake and carb. As for your intake, any dual plane will be fine. Holley carbs in my experience tend to be awesome. And next, if your going to build a 383, it shouldnt be on a "budget". You basically have to get the stock block bored and rebuilt, a new crank, all new pistons and rods, etc. also you mentioned not wanting to use vortec heads cause "everyone else does that", well who doesnt put a 350 in a camaro or other gm car? who cares what everyone else is doing?

[HeadlessNorseman]

just an observation, why spend the money twice? why not add things that can be used in the next build? drivetrain, rear, and suspension work never hurts and if the right parts are bought; they can be used in the next build.

also... + 1 to this. You should be doing this stuff before the stock motor ever leaves the car. No matter what you do, the 10 bolt is going to be the weak link followed by the stock trans

[Flippindabird]

i put a transgo kit in a 110k transmission that was used by my dad(who changes fluids eccentrically sometimes when its not even needed) for transportation for 9 years then garaged and used occasionally for leisure, the 10 bolt is from a 98 formula with 65k im sure they will run 13s just fine, im thinking if theres a weak link, its the ujoints and the driveshaft cause they are 1987 vintage base V8 Firebird i have a 600$ budget for this car this year, and the vortec long block w/ rpm manifold set me back 275(junk motor) the cam was 50, luckily i have a new cloyes timing, set a gmpp gasket set and a melling hv oil pump, im reusing just about everything i can, as for the suspension, how much hook do you think theres gonna be with 245/55/16 nittos?? i got about 275 to button it up, and then, after i have the car running smooth and any issues that MIGHT come along are taken care of, i can get some upgrades, until then if anyone has something to donate (ie suspension or drivetrain items) it would be greatly appreciated:mrgreen: like i said earlier im a family man im the lone income in my family and i have more to worry about then just making my car better, i save little by little for my car, and im tired of not being able to enjoy it once in a while, gets boring driving the Z71, explorer, and subaru and i havent driven the bird for 3 years, the 305 was slow so i vowed to make it faster, so i parked the car, now im gonna enjoy it a little this year, then park it again, and have a 383 built ls1 brakes up front, t56 swap complete suspension upgrade w/ sfc and roll bars then ill get a carpet and a headliner lol and 4th gen console and seats, then she'll be done until im ready to get a cowl hood and have it painted...
so now you know the plan, your warnings are duly noted but if she cant withstand being driven nicely for 45mins to the dragstrip, ran for a few times and driven back... then its a good thing i have triple A:nod:

and reed, how much would your "little machine work" cost? becuase i have it priced out to 325, the block work 350, and we all know what a balanced forged rotating assembly, w/matching flexplate, and balancer cost, bottom line is im not ready to spend that much this year i do believe that the heads im gonna get will be edlebrock Etec heads, they are aluminum, a good price, flow well out of the box and ill be able to reuse the rpm intake anyway try to remember we dont all have the same budget and when someone clearly states that they are not going to do it this year, telling them over and over agian to do it isnt going to change the fact that they dont wanna spend the money

[HeadlessNorseman]

Well it sounds like your going to do what you want no matter what... so why ask questions?

[Tru2Chevy]

Well it sounds like your going to do what you want no matter what... so why ask questions?

All he asked is which intake to run......

- Justin

[Flippindabird]

duly noted bill and i agree thanks

[Flippindabird]

does anyone know if the vortec truck oil pan will fit in an fbody? or is it better to use the fbody pan ? i thought there was a windage tray in the fbody pan not sure of the turck pan, guess ill have to pull both and take a look

[Flippindabird]

nevermind figured that out...

new question: i am contemplating a T5 swap, i want a T56 but due to the expense a T5 is all i can do for now, and i figure i get a T5 run it till it doesnt run and swap in a t56 half the work will be done and maybe by the time the T5 dies the T56s will come down in price lol anyway besides the fact that it will be less consistent(becuase of me), what are your opinions 700R4 vs T5?

[Flippindabird]

ok t5 swap is scratched as i have a new problem i removed the heads to inspect the shortblock because my lifters looked a little muddy when i swapped the LT1 cam in yesterday, when removing the heads i hit the valve cover lip with the mallet and took a chunk out so now im forced to take the heads to the machine shop, luckily im selling some of my parts for 700$ and it will cover the head work pretty easy, now ill be using a ZZ4 cam and better springs so all you guys should be happy, the shortblock looks great however i now believe the po's story about the engine being rebuilt a short time ago with marine performance stuff. im gonna install the new HV oil pump and and reinstall the oil pan and wait on the heads.... so how much power should i make with

4 bolt vortec block,
vortec heads rebuilt with manly race flow valves(1.95/1.5) 30 degree back cut etc
zz4 cam
performer RPM intake
Hooker 2055Rs(1 5/8" primary 3" collectors)
into a SLP LM for 4th gens(single 3" glasspack dual 2.5 outs)
stock Qjet and HEI

sound like i should be solid in the 13s? i have 3.23 gears now but i will try to get some 373s in before the end of the year and the stall should be around 2500 the rear tires will be a limiting factor im sure 245/55/16s as well as the stock suspension, the car is pretty much gutted right now so should be pretty light for a thirdgen no egr no ac no AIR no interior im even thinking of getting rid of the stereo and speakers because im sure its gonna have to be way up to hear it anyway, itll have a fiberglass hood and a aluminum driveshaft im guessing somewhere around 31-3200 it was 3350 from the factory according to the build sheet any guesses?

[Kat]

350 hp.380tq.

Few years ago the combo I had in my old iroc was a 13.50@100mph car.

Stock L98 Bottom end
Stock B2L heads (with port matching to the lower intake of the TPI)
Felpro 1094 head gasket (.015 shim rubber coated)
Stock TPI with 24lb injectors
Stock TB
LT1 cam
GMPP 1.6 rrs
Hooker 2460 headers
My own real 3" Ypipe
Random Tech cat back
Turbine Tech 2500 12' convertor
3.42 gears
My own prom tuning

:shrug: Didn't take me much to go mid 13's.

Now I have a crap load into my 355 but I run 12.0@114 :D

[Flippindabird]

thanks kat thats very encouraging i was hoping for numbers close to the zz4

[crainholio]

I have a set of cast aluminum valve covers for center-bolt heads if you're interested, been on the shelf since 2004. Very strong sealing and very easy to torque. Fitted with same oil fill and PCV locations as factory TPI setup. Cheap. I work in East Stroudsburg so shipping might not be necessary.

[crainholio]

nevermind figured that out...

new question: i am contemplating a T5 swap, i want a T56 but due to the expense a T5 is all i can do for now, and i figure i get a T5 run it till it doesnt run and swap in a t56 half the work will be done and maybe by the time the T5 dies the T56s will come down in price lol anyway besides the fact that it will be less consistent(becuase of me), what are your opinions 700R4 vs T5?

T5 shifter hole won't be in the right place for a future T56 swap unless you hog out a hole big enough for both locations. Clutch master cylinder holes should be compatible.

If cost is the big factor I'd go with a TH700R4 and an S-10 converter, add a Vette servo to firm up the shifts a bit.

[Flippindabird]

thanks crane i actually got a set of valve covers with the long block, and i have a transgo kit, corvette style servo and a 2500 stall converter now, gonna keep the 700r4 becausee its cheaper to get the car running this year