Custom supercharger install...

[V]

Shortly i hope to be undertaking a custom install of a centrifugal supercharger in my V. However NO ONE makes such a kit for the car as of yet.

So its up to me. Most likely i will be getting an F body kit and adapting it to work for me.
The most complicated part is figuring out how/where to mount the s/c itself.
On an fbody, it has the s/c pulley placed to replace the fixed idler between the alternator and the crank pulley. IN the V there is not enough room the fit it between the motor and the radiator, even with removing the one electric fan. So... I figured i could mount it off to the side some more.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/vmotor.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/IMG_1343.jpg


Now here are some rough belt diagrams showing what im thinking, please let me know if you see any issues.
the middle pic was my first concept, but due to how the s/c pulley needs to rotate it would be backwards.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/beltdiagram.png


This is the additional idler setup id have to add. I have 2 of theses setups on my '79 vette that im not using. id just have to make a solid bracket to hold them, which shouldnt be too hard IMO.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/vetteidler.jpg


So... you think i can make it happen?
And yes there will be an intercooler.
And the S/C would also be solidly supported.

[Blackbirdws6]

Take a look at the procharger for the G8 for some other ideas. It has the head unit in an odd location.

[V]

Take a look at the procharger for the G8 for some other ideas. It has the head unit in an odd location.


ive looked at the GTO kit, not bad but prevent use of an intercooler.
ill check out the G8 stuff.

[Jersey Mike]

EPP retrofits a Fbody Procharger kit onto the V1; they only allow for inhouse install on it though because of the complication
I'm sure you could get more info from them, and if I remember correctly, there is a hugeee article with install pictures somewhere on the web.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/EPP_photo/BobJCTS-VPIC44.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/EPP_photo/BobJCTS-VPIC49.jpg



*Edit*

found it: http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=33

^^ maybe that will give you some ideas

[V]

yea, i know that install, seems theres only one or two, (black and silver V's) that they've ever done and is FAR from a stock setup in the car. They used the GTO bracket which ive researched and decided against.
Rad and everything was eventually changed in that EPP build. Notice upper rad hose going to driver side. Fans were also swapped to dual pushers in front of the rad. Thats a one-off build not a common install, so therefore im not even looking into how they did stuff, besides for what they charged to do that i would go rear-mount twin turbos, and still have money left over.

----------------

For my setup, my major item will be the custom bracket/mounting plate.
My question is, what material and thickness should i use?
I want to do aluminum due to weight and that it would look better IMO.
Id do 6061-T651 Aluminum, but im not sure on thickness id need.
The stock smaller bracket plate that comes with the kit looks to be no more than 1/2" thick.
So id do 1/2" at the minimum, but probably 5/8" thick just to be safe since the bracket would be about 10"x16"(rough estimate).

I figure a 1'x2' plate of 6061-T651 Aluminum would be big enough and i would use some of the scraps cut off for parts of other brackets.

1'x2' 1/2" plate is about $100
1'x2' 5/8" plate is about $140

[WildBillyT]

Shortly i hope to be undertaking a custom install of a centrifugal supercharger in my V. However NO ONE makes such a kit for the car as of yet.

So its up to me. Most likely i will be getting an F body kit and adapting it to work for me.
The most complicated part is figuring out how/where to mount the s/c itself.
On an fbody, it has the s/c pulley placed to replace the fixed idler between the alternator and the crank pulley. IN the V there is not enough room the fit it between the motor and the radiator, even with removing the one electric fan. So... I figured i could mount it off to the side some more.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/vmotor.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/IMG_1343.jpg


Now here are some rough belt diagrams showing what im thinking, please let me know if you see any issues.
the middle pic was my first concept, but due to how the s/c pulley needs to rotate it would be backwards.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/beltdiagram.png


This is the additional idler setup id have to add. I have 2 of theses setups on my '79 vette that im not using. id just have to make a solid bracket to hold them, which shouldnt be too hard IMO.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/vetteidler.jpg


So... you think i can make it happen?
And yes there will be an intercooler.
And the S/C would also be solidly supported.

Just thinking out loud of a few possible hiccups:

1.) Your diagrams are not close to scale. According to the picture of the engine you would have trouble introducing anything extra between the alternator and power steering in the picture, but in the diagram it looks fine.

2.) According to the last diagram, the supercharger would work off the back of the belt?

3.) I'd be concerned about belt tension. One tensioner on a system like this with one long belt may be iffy regarding belt slip. Plus the belt doesn't look to wrap around the S/C a lot in the last pic- looks like what's in the second pic (contact wise) is better.

[V]

Just thinking out loud of a few possible hiccups:

1.) Your diagrams are not close to scale. According to the picture of the engine you would have trouble introducing anything extra between the alternator and power steering in the picture, but in the diagram it looks fine.

2.) According to the last diagram, the supercharger would work off the back of the belt?

3.) I'd be concerned about belt tension. One tensioner on a system like this with one long belt may be iffy regarding belt slip. Plus the belt doesn't look to wrap around the S/C a lot in the last pic- looks like what's in the second pic (contact wise) is better.


ok..
1, yea i know its not to scale but its mainly the idea, if i have time ill try to draw it up realistically. I based that diagram off the stock belt routing picture under the hood.

2. yes, this supercharger runs off the smooth side of the belt, not the ribs. I have to look into that more. The red idler is what is replaced by the S/C in the original f body supercharger setup, how its designed from the manufacturer, and uses the back of the belt there.

3. as in #2, you can see the amount of surface contact is very similar to where it would go on the original f body kit. And i would probably switch to a fixed adjustable style tensioner, not the stock spring loaded one.




Once i actually have the supercharger headunit, then ill get a 1/2" piece of plywood and work on cutting out a design for a bracket and see my mounting options. once a wood template works, mocked up with the idlers as well, then ill transfer it over to some aluminum plate stock.

Also, keep in mind, if this whole thing doesn't work out, its not like i'm stuck with a useless supercharger, ill just use the stock kit and slap it on my SS.



EDIT:

it would be closer to this actually, but once again it isnt 100% to scale. I wont be able to figure out the exact distances etc until i can start mocking it up IN the car, and then i can arrange stuff to maximize belt contact.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/beltdiagram2.png




Edit #2...

and as for Aluminum, i think id go with the 7075 Aluminum Alloy, which for a 1'x2' section of 1/2" thickness would cost $115.
Im not saying 7075 Al since i have been reading it is stronger than most mild steels and more corrosion resistant than 6061 alloy Al.

[Pampered-Z]

I don't think the stock belt is going to be strong enough or have enough tension to make any boost. You'll probably have tons of issue with belt slip and tearing up belts.

How much clearance is there lower/under the fans. Could you do an install with the blower turned around, facing backwards conpared to how it would mount on an F-body?

[Mike]

would the gto style work with a air to water intercooler and a meth kit to keep it cool when you dont have time to get ice?

[V]

pampered-Z, the rad is way to close to fit it the f-body way, I MAY be able to get away with mounting it after moving the fans, but then theres no way id fit the air intake pipe onto the supercharger.


mike, with the GTO kit, it's the air intake ducting and piping that doesnt easily allow for it. Theres no room to run IC piping up on the passenger side without several major modifications.

with my idea, the IC piping would exit low to the IC then back up past the blower from the driver side into the TB.




-------------

I could possibly make the bracket to mount the unit with pulley forward and then get a ribbed pulley. The reason i liked the pulley back fitment was due to space concerns. but it is something to look into once i have the unit.

[LTb1ow]

I would try and ditch the low mount alt, stick the head unit there and then relocate the alt up top somewhere.

[sweetbmxrider]

I would try and ditch the low mount alt, stick the head unit there and then relocate the alt up top somewhere.

i thought the same but i think that would spin it backwards?

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Its a reverse rotation charger must so it will have to run with the bulk of the unit facing away from the motor. running it up top or to the side would be only option

[JL8Jeff]

I would think running a separate crank pulley straight to the supercharger with a tensioned idler would work better. Trying to get the stock serpentine to do all that work is really pushing it.

[V]

I would think running a separate crank pulley straight to the supercharger with a tensioned idler would work better. Trying to get the stock serpentine to do all that work is really pushing it.


i was thinking that too. from what i found out, those add-on blower pulleys do not fit the CTS balancer, so id have to switch to an aftermarket one and then id be good to go.

[BonzoHansen]

why that style sc and not a magnacharger/roots type setup?

[V]

Its a reverse rotation charger must so it will have to run with the bulk of the unit facing away from the motor. running it up top or to the side would be only option


i was pondering that... but now if it uses the smooth side of the belt and rotates clockwise(as when looking at from the front of S/C) in the normal f body application... If you turn the s/c around so that now the pulley faces forward AND you switch to a ribbed pulley to run the inside of the belt... the s/c would still be turning in a clockwise manner... correct? lol

i hope someone else can make sense of my drawing, but they should equal the same final rotation....

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/CTS-V/rotation.png

[V]

why that style sc and not a magnacharger/roots type setup?


Because the magnacharger is 6k bucks and limited with upgrades.
plus i wanna be different and once i figure out mounting and such i can easily do this for around 3k, plus if i get bored or change my mind, it can go on the SS, a magnacharger cant.

[V]

As it seems now, my best bet is to flip the blower so the pulley is facing forward, mount it off to the drivers side, get an ATI Super dampner, Procharger 8 rib bolt-on crank pulley, 8 rib S/C pulley, and a fixed adjustable tensioner setup... along with the custom mounting bracket...

[Frosty]

why that style sc and not a magnacharger/roots type setup?

That's pretty much what I was thinking too. Spend the $$$, be done with it and go fast instead of trying plans A B C D and E.

It'd certainly be cool/different if any of these ideas came to fruition though.

[Pampered-Z]

Some of the SC units have the option if they run clockwise or counter clockwise, you would just need to note the rotation when you order it.

This might be way too much work. But The only other way I can think of is to delete the PS pump ( replace with one of those electric units ), relocate the atl to where the PS was, then put the SC where the alt was.

Sisnce the SC is fred from the back you may also need to fab motor mounts to gain more space ( based on the pic you posted).

[Slow-V6]

Because the magnacharger is 6k bucks and limited with upgrades.
plus i wanna be different and once i figure out mounting and such i can easily do this for around 3k, plus if i get bored or change my mind, it can go on the SS, a magnacharger cant.

Having a Magnacharged Caddy isnt different enough?

[V]

Having a Magnacharged Caddy isnt different enough?

nope, on the forums its one of the most common mods...

[Slow-V6]

nope, on the forums its one of the most common mods...

Werd. I have never seen one in person. Then again I dont get out much

[Featherburner]

nope, on the forums its one of the most common mods...There's a reason for that...

[V]

There's a reason for that...

And also the most threads of "my maggie bearings went" and everyones favorite... "strange noise, not supercharger whine"

[Slow-V6]

And also the most threads of "my maggie bearings went" and everyones favorite... "strange noise, not supercharger whine"

Nice. That can be said about any supercharger though.

What type of supercharger kit are you looking at? Procharger, Vortech?

[V]

Nice. That can be said about any supercharger though.

true, but you get my point, its been done, plus with the M112 unit, it limits power up top. They are all whining that they want a TVS style supercharger designed for the ls6.

Personally, i hate the look of the maggie, it looks so out of place IMO. plus to upgrade it with a 90MM snout would cost another couple hundred bucks.

still for half the price, i can make something "I can take credit for". Which is a huge deal to me. Anyone can buy a kit or pay a shop. I am not that way, i like showing my skills by creating and such. THis idea may be lost on some of you, but i bet a few of you guys can relate... you want something all your own, that you built... A one of a kind.

[sweetbmxrider]

oh we get it.......we're just waiting for pics! :)

[WildBillyT]

still for half the price, i can make something "I can take credit for". Which is a huge deal to me. Anyone can buy a kit or pay a shop. I am not that way, i like showing my skills by creating and such. THis idea may be lost on some of you, but i bet a few of you guys can relate... you want something all your own, that you built... A one of a kind.

Totally. I can definetly relate. If it screws up and you have to let the idea pass it's not a whole ton of money you will be out. You know the risks invovled.

But it pays to hear every opinion/idea. That will help you from overlooking stuff.

[Slow-V6]

true, but you get my point, its been done, plus with the M112 unit, it limits power up top. They are all whining that they want a TVS style supercharger designed for the ls6.

Personally, i hate the look of the maggie, it looks so out of place IMO. plus to upgrade it with a 90MM snout would cost another couple hundred bucks.

still for half the price, i can make something "I can take credit for". Which is a huge deal to me. Anyone can buy a kit or pay a shop. I am not that way, i like showing my skills by creating and such. THis idea may be lost on some of you, but i bet a few of you guys can relate... you want something all your own, that you built... A one of a kind.


I understand what you are saying completely. I had a 450hp V6 Firebird.. The only thing is its not like your putting a supercharger on a Mustang were everyone has one. Its a CTS-V which in its self is pretty rare to see yet alone it having any kind of supercharger on it. Its a top of the line Caddy.

I had a buddy Stefan back in the day that had a 98 V6 Firebird. 12secondV6 knows him as well. He put a Procharger on his car in 2000. It was a LT1 Kit that he made work on his 3.8. The car was very original but never stayed running for very long due to issues with the custom install. We had to send the blower in 2 times to get it rebuilt, The belt was always slipping, and it was just a PITA to get it to run good with it. He was one of the 1st if not the 1st that put a LT1 supercharger kit on his V6. Overall he spent way to much money on his setup were he could have just bought a LS1 motor. I think he was dissapointed in it towards the end.

[r0nin89]

So I like the concept but the whole totally custom brackets thing raises the question of your fabrication skills and what tools you posses.

Dont feel like I'm trying to patronize you but just thinking off the top of my head your going to need a drill press, a mill, tig welder, full access to air tools since its a bitch to cut/grind aluminum with an angle grinder, a plasma would help a ton, and I'm sure stuff I'm missing.

Thats talking aluminum. Now if you wanted to go steel you could probably get by with a cheap little flux core welder (MIG would be much better of course), drill press, and an angle grinder.

O and dont forget small heim joints with a reverse thread on one end and a keyed center link make great adjustable bracket links.

I'm really hoping to see you go through with this and post LOTS of picture :)

If I was you though I'd start redesigning my entire accessory setup to move everything up as high as you can and away as far as you can from where you decide the SC is going. That way you give yourself much more too work with.