Writing a Letter

[qwikz28]

Laugh if you want, but I am writing a letter to GM with the $1000 repair bill for my Saturn attached. My sway bar broke on a hard right-hand turn for the second time. The first one was covered under warranty, this one took out my front axle as collateral damage. I had just replaced that axle last fall at the Saturn dealer. There is no reason for this to happen. It is a manufacturing error or at least a negligent design. I can't find one other person on the Saturn forums that this has happened to. The gentleman at the Saturn service also said that this was the first time he has seen this happen when I had brought it in the first time.

They obviously won't be cutting me a check, but I'd at least like some sort of acknowledgment of the issue and a promise to cover the repairs if it happens again. The letter will take me only 20 minutes to write, so it is worth a shot in my opinion. What are you guys' thoughts? Any advice on what to include?

[BonzoHansen]

Did you make any calls? I'd call the district manager. get the number from the dealer.

[Frosty]

What Scott said, start making calls first. How was the dealer treating you? Include that(in a positive or negative light). Definitely try climbing the ladder via phone first.

[WildBillyT]

Laugh if you want, but I am writing a letter to GM with the $1000 repair bill for my Saturn attached. My sway bar broke on a hard right-hand turn for the second time. The first one was covered under warranty, this one took out my front axle as collateral damage. I had just replaced that axle last fall at the Saturn dealer. There is no reason for this to happen. It is a manufacturing error or at least a negligent design. I can't find one other person on the Saturn forums that this has happened to. The gentleman at the Saturn service also said that this was the first time he has seen this happen when I had brought it in the first time.

They obviously won't be cutting me a check, but I'd at least like some sort of acknowledgment of the issue and a promise to cover the repairs if it happens again. The letter will take me only 20 minutes to write, so it is worth a shot in my opinion. What are you guys' thoughts? Any advice on what to include?

FWIW, after I had an "experience" at Flemington GM I wrote an email and got a follow up phone call a week later. I was polite but firm and that's why I wasn't dismissed as a yahoo I guess.

[BonzoHansen]

What Scott said, start making calls first. How was the dealer treating you? Include that(in a positive or negative light). Definitely try climbing the ladder via phone first.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/Emos/withstupid.gif
this guy can probably get you numbers :mrgreen:

[maroman88]

wat year/model saturn

[BigAls87Z28]

Crazy man! How the hell do you snap a sway bar?!!?
Send a letter, they are very active with customer service right now, stretching into forums and social media sections.
Real crazy...

[sweetbmxrider]

bar or end-link?

[MyFirstZ]

i would deff. contact someone higher in the dealership they will hlep you out, they cant afford to lose a customer.

[NastyEllEssWon]

ive had the endlinks on my saturn replace twice already per warranty. it gets done per this tsb. theyve done the endlinks because they were worn prematurely because of the clunking.


Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
SATURN / ION 2003-2007

Service Bulletin Number : 040308006
NHTSA Item Number : 10007892
Summary Description :
CLUCK, THUMP OR RATTLE NOISE FROM FRONT SUSPENSION WHILE DRIVING OVER ROUGH ROAD CONDITIONS OR WHEN BRAKING (REPLACE FRONT LOWER CONTROL ARM REAR BUSHING). *MJ UPDATED 10/5/07. *NJ

[qwikz28]

bar or end-link?

the bar. Twice. The end-links I consider wear items, and replace them then they begin to clunk.

Dealer that did the work is now a used car lot. Called my local Chevy dealer and told them, and was told that the repair is no longer warrantied. Parts guy told me that sway bars on all cars break rather often. I'll make more phone calls this week.

Picked up the car today, and it is sputtering and the CEL is flashing and power is reduced. It shakes pretty violently on the highway too. I wish I had my scanner with me cause I am dying to know whats wrong with it.


wat year/model saturn

It's an 06 Vue by the way with 91k miles.

[CHRIS67]

Crazy man! How the hell do you snap a sway bar?!!?


I broke 3 bars in 3 years on my grand prix before the trans chit the bed and I traded it in. :nod:

[qwikz28]

I broke 3 bars in 3 years on my grand prix before the trans chit the bed and I traded it in. :nod:

whoa. how did that happen?

[CHRIS67]

whoa. how did that happen?

Having too much fun on highway on ramps. :mrgreen:

[sweetbmxrider]

the bar. Twice. The end-links I consider wear items, and replace them then they begin to clunk.

Dealer that did the work is now a used car lot. Called my local Chevy dealer and told them, and was told that the repair is no longer warrantied. Parts guy told me that sway bars on all cars break rather often. I'll make more phone calls this week.

Picked up the car today, and it is sputtering and the CEL is flashing and power is reduced. It shakes pretty violently on the highway too. I wish I had my scanner with me cause I am dying to know whats wrong with it.




It's an 06 Vue by the way with 91k miles.

i've got to imagine its pretty rare to break the actual bar with normal use. i bet there could be an issue with an outside supplier. also, sounds like a misfire if you didn't already assume so.

[Frosty]

I'd call the GM Customer Assistance number before writing a letter. They'll start a case for you and at least try to help. At the end of the day it's not up to the dealer. You could try getting the # to the district guy but your best bet is to start a case with GM. Let them make the calls, let them do the leg work...that's what they're there for.

[WildBillyT]

i've got to imagine its pretty rare to break the actual bar with normal use. i bet there could be an issue with an outside supplier. also, sounds like a misfire if you didn't already assume so.

I dunno man. I broke both ends of off the bar in my GTP.

[Blacdout96]

Get solid bars, they're heavier, but less to worry about, and if your snapping solid bars, you need to tell GM to move their suspension facility from China to Taiwan so this don't happen again.

[BigAls87Z28]

That's some hard driving! Shesh! I figure the link would snap first.

[CHRIS67]

That's some hard driving! Shesh! I figure the link would snap first.

Smaller bar on a wide car, or just some bad casting. Only car I had that had that issue.

[qwikz28]

Get solid bars, they're heavier, but less to worry about, and if your snapping solid bars, you need to tell GM to move their suspension facility from China to Taiwan so this don't happen again.

It is solid.

Tony- Thanks, I'm gonna start a case. I figure I'm going to start lofty and ask them to cover this repair too.

Al- It is hard driving, but its nothing that would constitute abuse or anything. It is NYC driving.

Sweetbmxrider- Yeah I had it scanned this morning. Multiple Misfire, Cyl 1 Misfire, and Cyl 3 misfire. Joy.

[sweetbmxrider]

i'd guess plugs if they haven't been done or coil packs. could obviously be more but given the mileage....

[Blacdout96]

Do you have any pics of the sway bar, and also, could you get an undershot between the endlinks and the bushings on th frame? either the manufacturing is defective, or the placement between those tw oare causeing too much stress on the member over a period of time and it just breaks.

[alamantia]

You can probably find out the contact information for the zone rep for the dealer that last preformed the work.

[alamantia]

Here is an e-mail address..

cac@saturn.com

[qwikz28]

i'd guess plugs if they haven't been done or coil packs. could obviously be more but given the mileage....

The mechanic that fixed the sway bar, also did Timing belt, water pump, a new axle, and spark plugs. It is possible that he incorrectly installed the spark plugs somehow.

I don't know anymore. I'm going to cry.

[sweetbmxrider]

that or the belt is off :shock: doubt it'd run though. just bring it back to him, maybe he made a simple mistake. mechanics are only human :lol:

i'd be interested in seeing the sway bar setup though. especially the endlinks.

[qwikz28]

that or the belt is off :shock: doubt it'd run though. just bring it back to him, maybe he made a simple mistake. mechanics are only human :lol:

i'd be interested in seeing the sway bar setup though. especially the endlinks.

I'm more mad at the car than at them. The misfire thing I'm sure is simple. The sway bar thing I know will come back and haunt me again. I did a google search for broken sway bars, and most of the hits were GM cars. Mainly, W-bodies.

I'll get pics of the sway bar when I get the chance.

[NastyEllEssWon]

what motor do you have?

[qwikz28]

what motor do you have?

Honda 3.5 from the Pilot and Odyssey

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=8664

what do you guys think?

[Blacdout96]

that or the belt is off :shock: doubt it'd run though. just bring it back to him, maybe he made a simple mistake. mechanics are only human :lol:

i'd be interested in seeing the sway bar setup though. especially the endlinks.

Maybe he didnt set the timing right when he went to put the belt back on? also, see what plugs the manufacturers say it needs to use. I know early saturns could only run base plugs, couldnt use iridium or platinum due to reading some kind of resistance off the plug wire or something super wierd, and also if it calls for iridium and you put platinums in, I know our 3.8's don't take too kindly to that, it would set the S.E.S light off once in a while, after I used iridium, never came back on for random multiple misfire.

[Firebird92]

That's some hard driving! Shesh! I figure the link would snap first.

lol i broke both swap bar links , bent the bar and destroyed passenger side axle boots and this was within 5 miles on the NJ turnpike and this was in my 1994 chevy corsica the tow truck driver couldn't believe it

[qwikz28]

a bit of LOL:

So I took the car to a Honda dealer near my school in Queens. I brought it in, and the guy immediately says that they only work on Hondas. The following is the correspondence:

-It has a honda motor in it.
-You swapped it in?
-No, it came with it.
-Uhh... Pop your hood.
...
Yo that's a Pilot motor!
I know, that's what I said.
Yo guys, check this out!
....
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/Snake3660/photo6.jpg


I convinced one guy I swapped it in.
Only one tech knew that it came with it cause his "boy" worked at saturn. (the one in blue leaning on the car)
Another guy brought a flashlight because he refused to believe it and went over every part in the engine bay.
The general consensus there was that it is most likely that it jumped timing. The general consensus online is that it is either the valve lash or non-OEM plugs

[sweetbmxrider]

i mean i initially thought timing but it wouldn't be drivable imo

[qwikz28]

i mean i initially thought timing but it wouldn't be drivable imo

I don't believe that the car jumped timing either. Its likely just a issue with plugs or something. I just hope I don't burn a valve or ruin a cat in the process of driving it like this.

[NJ Torque]

Make sure they are NGK/Denso/NTK plugs... Hondas don't like anything else.

[BonzoHansen]

Make sure they are NGK/Denso/NTK plugs... Hondas don't like anything else.

+1. dealer plugs best bet

[qwikz28]

is there anything wrong with driving around with bad plugs? Am I risking burning a valve or anything?

[NJ Torque]

If its misfiring, you can possibly damage the cat.

[DaSkinnyGuy]

The general consensus there was that it is most likely that it jumped timing. The general consensus online is that it is either the valve lash or non-OEM plugs

Highly doubt its vavle lash, could simply be one of the spark plugs has a really bad gap or fouled, i sure hope they installed oem plugs and checked to make sure there wasn"t a TSB on an updated spark plug to install.

[qwikz28]

I wish they would tell me what they used. Unfortunately all I can do at this point is demand oem plugs tomorrow.

[BonzoHansen]

you just take it back and ask for it to be fixed. you don't know plugs are the issue so you really can't demand new ones.

[qwikz28]

you just take it back and ask for it to be fixed. you don't know plugs are the issue so you really can't demand new ones.

Valid. I was just trying to expedite the process. I need my car next week. I can't go another week without it. I suppose I technically can, but it really is burdening everyone in my family who have graciously loaned out their own cars so I don't have to drive my Camaro into Queens so it can get stolen and banged up.

[WildBillyT]

Did you check the firing order? Easy to screw up and easy to check.

[qwikz28]

1-4-2-3-5-6

Why is that significant? They are coil on plug, so I'm not sure they can be crossed. It is two adjacent cylinders that are misfiring though....

[sweetbmxrider]

Did you check the firing order? Easy to screw up and easy to check.

silly old guys :lol: nowadays, its 1 coil per plug! 8-)

[BigAls87Z28]

Hahaha yeah that big HEI cap in them hondas are fun......old guys. Just take it back and ask them to fix it.

[WildBillyT]

silly old guys :lol: nowadays, its 1 coil per plug! 8-)

I was not talking about that. I meant that he should check to see if they crossed two wires since they did the plugs. He said that it's two adjacent cylinders that are misfiring. He also said they did plugs- not plugs and wires, so I don't know if they even removed the wires from the coils.

Could be a moot point if the wires are short like an LS1, but if it's like my GP or the Mali then you could do it. Although they are two plugs per coil :D I dunno. Something stupid that's easy to check.

[sweetbmxrider]

no no, i know what you are saying. literally the coil bolts to the valve cover and on the bottom of the coil is the boot which attaches to the plug. the only wires you could possibly cross are the harness connections but even then, they are a specific length so they can only go to the correct coil. literally coil-on-plug :lol:

[qwikz28]

It's there. The car was shaking violently the entire way there. I hope no other damage resulted :(

[qwikz28]

Got the car back. They replaced the plugs on cyl's 1 and 3 and tested the coils. To cover their bases, they swapped coil 1 for coil 2, and coil 3 for coil 6. I don't know if I'm imagining it, but the car feels like power is substantially reduced. They used Autolite Double Platinum plugs, but offered to swap for Iridiums if I wanted. Ah well. We'll see what happens. Thanks guys.

Now back to the original plan, the letter...

[BonzoHansen]

hondas don't like autolites

[BigAls87Z28]

Nothing but LT1's like Autolites, and thats because the ignition system doesnt know what its doing.

NGK Iridium...go there and demand.

[qwikz28]

Nothing but LT1's like Autolites, and thats because the ignition system doesnt know what its doing.

NGK Iridium...go there and demand.

The car is super sluggish. I think I'm going to have to.

[WildBillyT]

no no, i know what you are saying. literally the coil bolts to the valve cover and on the bottom of the coil is the boot which attaches to the plug. the only wires you could possibly cross are the harness connections but even then, they are a specific length so they can only go to the correct coil. literally coil-on-plug :lol:

LOL. Ya got me there!

[NJ Torque]

If they MUST use Autolites, use the number they need in an "XP" series.

[Frosty]

Jake, did you contact GM Customer Care yet? I had a situation late last week with a customer...and unfortunate situation that seems to be happening more and more often. It seems this oh so wonderful 3.6 DI engines(you know, the one God built right after the LS1?) seem to be puking timing chains..well being that it's happening more and more often the chains and tensioners are in high demand. GM warehouse has none, we have 3 different SPAC cases on it hoping another dealer will sell us the parts. I have no ETA on ANYTHING so the customer called the GM line(she's not angry with us) and within 2hrs we got a call from them..so they DO try to help out the best they can.

I'm getting fed up with GM though, this isn't the first 3.6 to come in like this and we're a very small dealership. GM's TAC(tech assistance) off the record says it's because the customers aren't changing their oil every 3K. ****ing BS. First off, the 3K mile oil change is overkill on today's cars. Second off, GM tells their customers to go by their oil life monitor %, which typically at 3K is 65-68%. Third off, they also tell them go by their ONSTAR report if they receive it. So F GM on this. Lets blame customers for GM using junk parts. :rolleyes: Sorry for the ranting :rofl:

[qwikz28]

Jake, did you contact GM Customer Care yet? I had a situation late last week with a customer...and unfortunate situation that seems to be happening more and more often. It seems this oh so wonderful 3.6 DI engines(you know, the one God built right after the LS1?) seem to be puking timing chains..well being that it's happening more and more often the chains and tensioners are in high demand. GM warehouse has none, we have 3 different SPAC cases on it hoping another dealer will sell us the parts. I have no ETA on ANYTHING so the customer called the GM line(she's not angry with us) and within 2hrs we got a call from them..so they DO try to help out the best they can.

I'm getting fed up with GM though, this isn't the first 3.6 to come in like this and we're a very small dealership. GM's TAC(tech assistance) off the record says it's because the customers aren't changing their oil every 3K. ****ing BS. First off, the 3K mile oil change is overkill on today's cars. Second off, GM tells their customers to go by their oil life monitor %, which typically at 3K is 65-68%. Third off, they also tell them go by their ONSTAR report if they receive it. So F GM on this. Lets blame customers for GM using junk parts. :rolleyes: Sorry for the ranting :rofl:

Tony- I haven't yet, because my mind was completely consumed by the misfire that kept worrying me of having to spend more money on a cat or coil plug. The car is running great now but I still always have the fear of snapping another sway bar. So I will likely get around to contacting them this week.

I agree with the GM rant. That timing chain issue is something that worried my father and I when we got our Cadillac. It seems like the timing chain issue happens more with the 3.6, so we insisted on getting the 3.0 (which is newer, and hopefully improved). Out of principle, I will not consider another GM car to replace the Saturn unless they promise to cover any future repairs resulting from my sway bar snapping. I am a GM fanboi, but this is crazy. Besides, I lust over the next gen Kia Optima.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/26/breaking-hyundai-recalling-nearly-140-000-new-sonatas/

Look at that customer service. 10 complaints, and a recall is issued BEFORE the investigation is completed. Not trying to bash GM, and I know I am kinda asking for alot here considering every car has their issues, but 2 broken sway bars is not normal.

[Featherburner]

hondas don't like autolitesMy CR 250 says differently.

[BonzoHansen]

My CR 250 says differently.
ok, honda automobile engines don't like autolites

[Featherburner]

ok, honda automobile engines don't like autolitesFair enough.