Ak-47

[BigRocsFirebird]

Anyone else buy an ak-47.. We got a call tonight from the state police.. They're giving us 24 hours to turn her in:-x The reason ours was legal there was a loop hole and it was listed as a cattle rifle. They got turned in now we need to give it up.

I loved that gun more than all the others we have. I was so good at shooting with it. Never missed any shot. Luckly we get our 1900$ back for it. So pissed off we need to turn it in. We have boxes and boxes of ammo for it. Now we can't shoot it. I really hate this state.

I understand we got it through a loophole but still it stinks to lose it. I'm not getting to far into this but if anybody bad person wants to get their hands on it they will. Why take it from the good honest people.:evil:

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/Capture-1.jpg
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/Capture2-1.jpg

[GrandmasterCow]

Welcome to New Jersey !

[sweetbmxrider]

sell it to someone who lives in PA

[Blacdout96]

Time to move into the mountains...

[BigRocsFirebird]

yeah we are talking about moving. Then we can get more guns and fully auto. Jersey FTL

[procamaroz28]

umm what kind ak??? why is it not legal??? what if it is made jersey compliant???

[procamaroz28]

make sure "ak" is not on receiver. if you have a threaded barrel u gotta weld a tip on.. and ofcourse 15 round mags...
o yea and shave of Bayonet lug if u have..

[BigRocsFirebird]

has everything to comply with the law but they changed some crap so they're taking them. Were taking back to the gun shop we got it from. the guy said they are trying to change it back to where we can still have it. it may happen within this week so were going to have him write a check to us. not going to cash it right away but if we can get it back due to the ban then we'll cash it.

[7998]

Put me in the
'Loves their AK' group

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/7998photo/Firearms/Justins009.jpg
http://http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/7998photo/Firearms/rpk079.jpg

That sucks you have to give it back. Jersey does have some of the stupidest firearm laws.

[procamaroz28]

PA.. LUCKYYY!!
is the bottom one a WASR 10/63??

[PolarBear]

I hope you realize you now need a PERMIT to transport that firearm ANYWHERE in NJ. If you do not have a transportation permit you can be arrested.

You need the permit to transport all firearms including paintball and pellet guns

[sweetbmxrider]

more info on the permit?

[PolarBear]

more info on the permit?

UNfortunately all I know is what my friend told me. His cousin is a Trenton cop and they had to arrest someone because they didnt have the transportation permit :cry:

[7998]

PA.. LUCKYYY!!
is the bottom one a WASR 10/63??

Yeah the bottom one is a WASR, I love it. It is deadly accurate and reliable and my go to rifle.

Speaking of stupid Jersey laws. This guy got 7 years for trying to be legal. Thats appalling and shame getting locked up for trying to do the right thing.
http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/117179-new-jersey-man-gets-seven-years-being-responsible-gun-owner.html

[Knipps]

Q6.

How do you transport firearms?

A6.

Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.

Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

[PolarBear]

Aparantly the law went into effect very recently and I dont think the state police page has been updated yet.

I will get more details but it falls under some other laws or something

[procamaroz28]

^^ yup even check state police site...

[procamaroz28]

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html

[PolarBear]

So what you are all saying is that EVERYTHING posted on the internet is
a. ALWAYS correct
b. always up to date

And the fact that I have no proof to back up my information is false and therefore not worthy of your own investigation.
My friends cousin is on TAC in Trenton, so I think he knows WTF he is talking about

[bad64chevelle]

They are going to be locking a lot of us up then, since no one knows about it.

OP....Im sure those 30 round magazines were used in another state too, correct? Or they are pinned to a 15rder?
You're not the only one...supposedly many people got a call today even with other AK variants. Dodged a bullet by about 24 hours myself, was about to go pick up a Saiga tomorrow night.

[procamaroz28]

wow so what is the meaning behind all these "calls" and what is their reasoning?

[procamaroz28]

+ how do they know that a rifle was not modified to meet NJ compliance?

[91chevywt]

The hippie d-bags won't rest until all the guns are melted down. Small steps at a time.

[BigRocsFirebird]

damn i come back from a car meet i didnt expect any replys lol

but i can't wait to move out of jersey. the gun laws are insaine. soon as we move out i'm getting a ton of fully autos. also i havent heard of the transport permit. this is getting old with them and laws

[V]

I'm just gonna get a .50 cal rifle....

[BigRocsFirebird]

I'm just gonna get a .50 cal rifle....

Yes! We were looking also. The one were looking at is around 14k

[afclubkid21]

This makes me second guess wanting to move back to NJ. Here in AZ we can legally open carry and concealed carry without a permit. I go almost everywhere with my gun on my hip or thigh.

[procamaroz28]

^^^ he wins...

[WildBillyT]

soon as we move out i'm getting a ton of fully autos.

Get ready to open your wallet wide.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Get ready to open your wallet wide.

yeah i know how much they are but i'm making pretty good money for an 18 year old kid. i've got a good amount saved already but i can buy a few here and there. i know theres people who probably make a lot more than me but after taxes i'm still getting over 1k a week, its not bad for my age.

[Firebird92]

AHH i understand now ... see what happen my neighbor is the BIGGEST anti-gun person you will ever meet and he's also a little ***** *********....... anyway he came over my house with a simile on his face saying we got to turn all are guns in to the police we was like WTF and if we don't he will call the police on us.

my father has an SW 500 , a .22 of course , crossbow ,G20, and some hunting shotguns and rifles..

I'm thinking of putting this on my lawn

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/house-not-armed.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

dude that sign is awesomeeeeeee

[98CamaroSS]

NJ gun laws suck. :moon: You can't legally own a AK but you can pick one up illegally in Newark or Camden no problem. :wink: Time to move to PA. :nod:

[ryanfx]

So what you are all saying is that EVERYTHING posted on the internet is
a. ALWAYS correct
b. always up to date

And the fact that I have no proof to back up my information is false and therefore not worthy of your own investigation.
My friends cousin is on TAC in Trenton, so I think he knows WTF he is talking about


My thoughts pretty much... on top of the fact that a transport permit is not mentioned a single time on any searchable website, including the state government's.

I obviously did my own research to tell you that you're wrong though :)

[Tsar]

1. You paid 1900 for an AK?!?!

2. Never heard of any transportation permit crap, even the cops told me to throw my gun in the trunk, unloaded, if I wanted to take it somewhere.

[Knipps]

Tsar, that's bc apparently it's some new law that's not posted anywhere yet...

[procamaroz28]

1. You paid 1900 for an AK?!?!

.

no way.. something wrong there

[Savage_Messiah]

he came over my house with a simile on his face saying we got to turn all are guns in to the police we was like WTF and if we don't he will call the police on us.

slap that bastard with a copy of the bill of rights

[BigRocsFirebird]

1. You paid 1900 for an AK?!?!

2. Never heard of any transportation permit crap, even the cops told me to throw my gun in the trunk, unloaded, if I wanted to take it somewhere.

You're right i'm sorry i mixed it up with our AR-15 for some reason i thought our AK was 1900$ I knew it sounded high but I thought it was it. The Ak-47 was around 900$. ooops lol

[redsoxsstink]

1k a week!? i thought i was doing alight for a kid my age making 270 a week cash, for 35 hrs of work. never understood the states gun laws, well actually i never understood most of the laws. there is alot of pointless ones.

[BigRocsFirebird]

1k a week!? i thought i was doing alight for a kid my age making 270 a week cash, for 35 hrs of work. never understood the states gun laws, well actually i never understood most of the laws. there is alot of pointless ones.

that is good money, i just lucky that my father and another guy started a company 18 years ago and it kind of blew up and we cover 7 states of fedex repairing the conveyors. but as of 2 years ago fedex wanted a single company to cover everything. So now we cover everything in fedex but the roof and we don't fix the trucks. But i love it its fun. I like to go places i couldnt sit in a office. (not busting on anyone sitting behind a desk) i like to work with my hands.

[redsoxsstink]

that is good money, i just lucky that my father and another guy started a company 18 years ago and it kind of blew up and we cover 7 states of fedex repairing the conveyors. but as of 2 years ago fedex wanted a single company to cover everything. So now we cover everything in fedex but the roof and we don't fix the trucks. But i love it its fun. I like to go places i couldnt sit in a office. (not busting on anyone sitting behind a desk) i like to work with my hands.

bad ass, how many hrs do you work?

[BigRocsFirebird]

bad ass, how many hrs do you work?

its not always the same hours it goes between 70-85

[redsoxsstink]

its not always the same hours it goes between 70-85

psh f that, 35 is plenty for me with school and stuff. but i guess if your making that much who needs school

[BigRocsFirebird]

psh f that, 35 is plenty for me with school and stuff. but i guess if your making that much who needs school

well its not all full true hours. fedex thinks they save money buy setting times for us on some things. we get 10 hours to service each conveyor and some stations over 20 but say we do it in 30 min which it normaly does take that little time we still have to charge the 10 hours. they screw themselves over.

[Savage_Messiah]

that is good money, i just lucky that my father and another guy started a company 18 years ago and it kind of blew up and we cover 7 states of fedex repairing the conveyors. but as of 2 years ago fedex wanted a single company to cover everything. So now we cover everything in fedex but the roof and we don't fix the trucks. But i love it its fun. I like to go places i couldnt sit in a office. (not busting on anyone sitting behind a desk) i like to work with my hands.

you cover ground in south hackensack?

[BigRocsFirebird]

you cover ground in south hackensack?

we don't cover ground or kinkos

[procamaroz28]

sorry to go off topic but i guess u cant be too careful.. read...
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-10/104870-arrested-having-gun-vehicle-permit.html

[BigAls87Z28]

I cant believe someone wouldnt live in a certain state because of you cannot walk around with a gun on your waist.
Really? Is looking like a ****in cowboy that important to some people?
If owning a machine gun is the deciding factor where you might want to live, then I think some people need to get checked out.

[LTb1ow]

I cant believe someone wouldnt live in a certain state because of you cannot walk around with a gun on your waist.
Really? Is looking like a ****in cowboy that important to some people?
If owning a machine gun is the deciding factor where you might want to live, then I think some people need to get checked out.

Some people value certain rights more than others. Benefit of living in a free country, you can like your GMI and car stuff, I can like my guns.

Would I move out of the state for it? Eh, NJ hasn't hampered me to much with my guns, but MD lets you buy a pistol with just a proof of age and residency. Very tempting. 8-)

[BigAls87Z28]

That sounds ultra-safe. Any ******* with a drivers license can get a gun. Maybe thats why Baltimore Police are one of the few citites still hiring police.

[BigRocsFirebird]

I cant believe someone wouldnt live in a certain state because of you cannot walk around with a gun on your waist.
Really? Is looking like a ****in cowboy that important to some people?
If owning a machine gun is the deciding factor where you might want to live, then I think some people need to get checked out.

thats not the only reason we want to get out of this state. were not that nuts of it but owning and shooting guns is a big hobby we have. if you were into it you'd understand.

[LTb1ow]

That sounds ultra-safe. Any ******* with a drivers license can get a gun. Maybe thats why Baltimore Police are one of the few citites still hiring police.

Arguing guns with you is pointless. Guns kill people yadda yadda yadda, guns are evil, dump in the bottom of the sea...

Gun laws hinder people that follow the law, criminals will always get them illegally and in most cases with ease. Its in their nature.

Now go swing your anti gun flag proudly.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Arguing guns with you is pointless. Guns kill people yadda yadda yadda, guns are evil, dump in the bottom of the sea...

Gun laws hinder people that follow the law, criminals will always get them illegally and in most cases with ease. Its in their nature.

Now go swing your anti gun flag proudly.

100000000000% right

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, you are an ******* because I grew up around guns and have been shooting guns since you were ****ting in your diapers.
Im not anti-gun, Im against people who think that the 2nd ammendment means they should be able to own a howitzer if they had the means.
People get all choked up because you cant have a 100 round magazine, massive caliber rifles. People who think that if everyone had guns on them, there would be less crime.

[BigRocsFirebird]

who you calling an *******, me?

[sweetbmxrider]

well the zombies come, you are gunna look like a jerk.

[LTb1ow]

Well, you are an ******* because I grew up around guns and have been shooting guns since you were ****ting in your diapers.
Im not anti-gun, Im against people who think that the 2nd ammendment means they should be able to own a howitzer if they had the means.
People get all choked up because you cant have a 100 round magazine, massive caliber rifles. People who think that if everyone had guns on them, there would be less crime.

Um, yea.

If I were a criminal and I knew everyone had a gun and knew how to use it... I would be much more hesitant to steal/rob/kill/rape etc etc etc.

But such logic is lost on the minds of people like you, "oh everyone is a good person who is in a bad place" and "oh its not their fault" wah wah wah.

Bleeding heart liberal. Kids can't even play with toy guns anymore, but they can blast the crap out of realistic images in video games. Logic.

And yes, I want a howitzer. For what reasons, I don't know, but I am sure I could find uses for it.

[WildBillyT]

Some areas in the country are so rural it is basically a requirement to have a gun for protection. Calling the police will get them there in a hour or two.

Here in NJ we have a relatively quick police force in most towns, so it seems absurd to some.

Whatever. Somebody would call me crazy for wanting a 1000hp pro touring car that can only legally go a max of 65mph. So go ahead and own your guns.
The only thing is regarding the full auto/Class III's. Home ownership of those can interfere with the police having to do their job in case of "issue". Speeding is one thing, going full auto on some cops is another.

[LTb1ow]

Some areas in the country are so rural it is basically a requirement to have a gun for protection. Calling the police will get them there in a hour or two.

Here in NJ we have a relatively quick police force in most towns, so it seems absurd to some.

Whatever. Somebody would call me crazy for wanting a 1000hp pro touring car that can only legally go a max of 65mph. So go ahead and own your guns.
The only thing is regarding the full auto/Class III's. Home ownership of those can interfere with the police having to do their job in case of "issue". Speeding is one thing, going full auto on some cops is another.

Most local towns will know if you have guns based on LAW abiding citizens having to register their fire arms. I know my police chief knows what my family has in our house, and all the fire arms/ammunition is locked in a safe anyway.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Some areas in the country are so rural it is basically a requirement to have a gun for protection. Calling the police will get them there in a hour or two.

Here in NJ we have a relatively quick police force in most towns, so it seems absurd to some.

Whatever. Somebody would call me crazy for wanting a 1000hp pro touring car that can only legally go a max of 65mph. So go ahead and own your guns.
The only thing is regarding the full auto/Class III's. Home ownership of those can interfere with the police having to do their job in case of "issue". Speeding is one thing, going full auto on some cops is another.

i want a 1000hp pro touring car. go halfs? but yes i agree with you

[Tsar]

Well, you are an ******* because I grew up around guns and have been shooting guns since you were ****ting in your diapers.
Im not anti-gun, Im against people who think that the 2nd ammendment means they should be able to own a howitzer if they had the means.
People get all choked up because you cant have a 100 round magazine, massive caliber rifles. People who think that if everyone had guns on them, there would be less crime.
Wanna show me some stats on Austin/Dallas/Houston vs DC's murder & assault/population comparison rates? I'll let you guess which one is higher. :lol:

[LTb1ow]

Wanna show me some stats on Austin/Dallas/Houston vs DC's murder & assault/population comparison rates? I'll let you guess which one is higher. :lol:

Logic is lost on people buzzed on the koolaid.

[BigRocsFirebird]

i feel this thread is going to get nastyyyyyy but what's with this guy on top gear? hes getting off to the shifter

[LTb1ow]

I want my howitzer.

[BigAls87Z28]

Wanna show me some stats on Austin/Dallas/Houston vs DC's murder & assault/population comparison rates? I'll let you guess which one is higher. :lol:

here are stats of each state.

NJ, which is such a ******** with gun laws, keeping them out of the hands of the right, and into the hands of the wrong, is #48

Mass, also a place of lefty nut bags who want to take your guns away....is 50.

Texas, home of the six-shooter, guns for everyone? #26.

DC is a ********, guns or no guns.

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-crime-gun-violence

More stats

Texas 15, NJ 29

[LTb1ow]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__BKv3hOOzvY/SZrLbHMZgzI/AAAAAAAAA9o/BM2si1FMXaw/s400/HowaboutitLiberals.jpg

[Tru2Chevy]

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-crime-gun-violence

More stats

Texas 15, NJ 29

:lol: SOURCE: Wikipedia: Gun violence in the United States by state

Facts from wikipedia FTW!

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahh, oh well. Checkin for more
Cant find where the data is from, but it shows crimes per state.

http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/2010/Crime_State_Rankings_2010.pdf

[LTb1ow]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:fHhvM3HoQUIi4M:http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/p/parisgn2.jpg&t=1

Gimme?

[Tsar]

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_gun-crime-gun-violence

More stats

Texas 15, NJ 29
Even according to that "awesome" website that copies stuff from Wiki - Vermont, open carry state, is number 50. Illinois, cough Chicago cough, is number 2.

[j0n]

Al, you're an anti and you know it. Don't kid yourself. And OMFG at all the stupid **** posted in this thread :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

[j0n]

People get all choked up because you cant have a 100 round magazine, massive caliber rifles.

In NJ I can have a semi-automatic Barret .50bmg rifle capable of putting a round through an engine block from over a mile, however with a Marlin Model 60 chambered in .22 short rifle I would be thrown in jail for over 5 years. Explain that to me please.

People who think that if everyone had guns on them, there would be less crime.

In every state that has adopted a shall-issue concealed carry weapon policy violent crime has decreased.

[Firebird92]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:fHhvM3HoQUIi4M:http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/p/parisgn2.jpg&t=1

Gimme?
that's where i left my howitzer mmm how i lose that

[BigRocsFirebird]

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/guns-dont-kill-happy-gilmore-costume-shirt-screengrab-1.jpg
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/dinoooo.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Al, you're an anti and you know it. Don't kid yourself. And OMFG at all the stupid **** posted in this thread :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Im not anti-gun.
You can compare guns to cars, there are limits to cars and there should be limits to guns.
I dont understand why you can have a .50 cal and not a .22 rifle. There are stupid laws, and there are laws that control what people should have.
Yes, criminals will continue to break the law. Thats what makes them criminals.
You look at the US as a whole, we own the most guns by a large margin, and have the highest level of crime, and high levels of murder by guns. Its shocking, I know.
Like I know having a car that gets 10mpg on the highway, going downhill with a tail wind is not great for the enviroment, I know that guns are very dangerious and have the ability to bring lots of destruction in the hands of some.
I also dont see a crime-free Dallas, I will never buy that if everyone has a gun, that everyone is that much safer.
If everyone has a gun, when the situation calls for it, everyone will pull theirs out.
I dont buy the guns for everyone deal one bit. Biggest crock of **** ever to be spilled into the NRA kool-aid.
Guns are dangerious, like cars are dangerious. There are laws for cars, there are laws for guns.

[afclubkid21]

I cant believe someone wouldnt live in a certain state because of you cannot walk around with a gun on your waist.
Really? Is looking like a ****in cowboy that important to some people?
If owning a machine gun is the deciding factor where you might want to live, then I think some people need to get checked out.

Was this directed at me? I still want to move to NJ. I was just stating a fact. There are some parts of Phoenix that you DO NOT want to go to even with a gun. Too much gang violence and Illegal aliens that dont want to make an honest living. Not to mention Mexican drug cartels are sending people to Phoenix to kidnap honest, hard working Americans. Also, Im in the military. Guess who is a bigger terrorist target then you or any other civilian. I stand by the 2nd amendment, and I do believe that anyone that is 21 years old, and has no felonies should be able to openly carry a hand gun. Maybe Im just used to the laws here. Im not into looking like a cowboy or any or that non-sense. I just want a potential mugger, car thief, or even robber in a convenience store to know that I have the gun on me, and if they try something they will get four rounds of jacketed hollow point to the chest.

[sweetbmxrider]

you also have to factor who is accounting for the stats when dealing with statistics such as these. skewed would be an understatement.

[7998]

To quote Mark Twain "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".
More guns Less crime
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

http://www.gunmyths.com/
But regardless nobody should have the right to tell me I can't a certain rifle or handgun. Instead they should address the gorilla in the room thats at the core of the problem. Even though I live in PA and we can carry open or concealed and I can buy whatever I want as long as I have no criminal record what so ever. I should not have to dis-arm myself when I cross state lines. The average response time is something like 10 mins, by that time I have already been assaulted, mugged, beating, carjacked, raped,killed,etc...
Sorry but I tell people all the time, you couldn't give me a house in Jersey unless I could just sell it.

I know its a cheesy bumper sticker but "Gun kill people like spoon made Rosie Odonnell fat"

[BonzoHansen]

no politics

[Frosty]

I should not have to dis-arm myself when I cross state lines.

Yes you should, State's rights are a beautiful thing.

[BigAls87Z28]

To quote Mark Twain "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".
More guns Less crime
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

http://www.gunmyths.com/
But regardless nobody should have the right to tell me I can't a certain rifle or handgun. Instead they should address the gorilla in the room thats at the core of the problem. Even though I live in PA and we can carry open or concealed and I can buy whatever I want as long as I have no criminal record what so ever. I should not have to dis-arm myself when I cross state lines. The average response time is something like 10 mins, by that time I have already been assaulted, mugged, beating, carjacked, raped,killed,etc...
Sorry but I tell people all the time, you couldn't give me a house in Jersey unless I could just sell it.

I know its a cheesy bumper sticker but "Gun kill people like spoon made Rosie Odonnell fat"


Gun and a spoon are tools. Gun kills, spoon scoops.
Gun kills lots of things. Spoon scoops lots of things
Guns kill people, Spoons scoop ice cream

No one here is saying remove all guns. Even I, "Capt. Lib", do not want to see wepons taken away.
I do want to see stronger regulation on the most dangerious guns. Assault rifles are not needed for home defense, IMO. I dont see the need to have an M60 or a SAW in the house and claim that as home defense weapon.

AK47 is another weapon like that. People, as a group, are dumb. Laws are not ment for you, or you, or you, but for the WHOLE group of people, be it county, state, or country.

[LTb1ow]

Gun and a spoon are tools. Gun kills, spoon scoops.
Gun kills lots of things. Spoon scoops lots of things
Guns kill people, Spoons scoop ice cream

No one here is saying remove all guns. Even I, "Capt. Lib", do not want to see wepons taken away.
I do want to see stronger regulation on the most dangerious guns. Assault rifles are not needed for home defense, IMO. I dont see the need to have an M60 or a SAW in the house and claim that as home defense weapon.

AK47 is another weapon like that. People, as a group, are dumb. Laws are not ment for you, or you, or you, but for the WHOLE group of people, be it county, state, or country.


Technically, bullets kill people.

[7998]

20,000 plus firearm laws on the books already.
I want to see stronger regulation on criminals, not the guns.
When we ban assault rifles, are we going to ban assault knives and assault spoons and assault shovels?
Who says an AK isn't a good home defense weapon? I live within a couple of miles of Trenton, and they might invade. Or the rest of the country has to liberate those poor oppressed souls living in Jersey.
Besides my 1942 M-1 Garand which is just like the one my grandfather dragged across europe can flip you over backwards long before Jerome can get in range with an AK. Should we ban them too. We should abolish the laws on the books now and concentrate more on the criminal element. The criminal will rob or kill you with a sharp stick, or a hammer, or even a sharpened spoon.

[7998]

Yes you should, State's rights are a beautiful thing.

States right do not trump the constitution. Jersey can't abolish the right to free speech.
And thankfully NJ is getting sued to over turn that
http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=346

[sweetbmxrider]

No one here is saying remove all guns. Even I, "Capt. Lib", do not want to see wepons taken away.
I do want to see stronger regulation on the most dangerious guns. Assault rifles are not needed for home defense, IMO. I dont see the need to have an M60 or a SAW in the house and claim that as home defense weapon.

just curious what makes a gun "the most dangerous" and when the lawmakers can stop making stronger regulations on them. i hate to pick you apart but every time you ban a gun, there will be another "most dangerous" one to replace it. any real gun has the ability to kill you, its simply their design intent.

[BigAls87Z28]

just curious what makes a gun "the most dangerous" and when the lawmakers can stop making stronger regulations on them. i hate to pick you apart but every time you ban a gun, there will be another "most dangerous" one to replace it. any real gun has the ability to kill you, its simply their design intent.

Ban the caliber and style of bullet. Some of the laws now are all over the place, where you are allowed for this type of gun, but soemthing along the same lines is allowed.
I guess there inlies the problem, what is in fact a gun that could cause more damage when all guns are potential to do a ton of damage.

So, lets just ban all guns? Easy enough....

[LTb1ow]

Ban the caliber and style of bullet. Some of the laws now are all over the place, where you are allowed for this type of gun, but soemthing along the same lines is allowed.
I guess there inlies the problem, what is in fact a gun that could cause more damage when all guns are potential to do a ton of damage.

So, lets just ban all guns? Easy enough....

And that would solve....?

Guns are tools, and people will always find ways to make a tool to accomplish the task they are at, whether it be, getting dinner, or robbing a bank.

But whatever, arguing with you is useless, however, when the zombies come, have fun.

[Frosty]

States right do not trump the constitution. Jersey can't abolish the right to free speech.
And thankfully NJ is getting sued to over turn that
http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=346

What does free speech have to do with guns?

BTW, States' rights is kinda in the Constitution....

[sweetbmxrider]

if you banned guns, would you ban bow and arrows too? i mean they are whisper quiet so stealth robberies are much more possible.

[Frosty]

Sporks are where it's at.

[LTb1ow]

if you banned guns, would you ban bow and arrows too? i mean they are whisper quiet so stealth robberies are much more possible.

What about people trained in karate or ninjas?

I mean, they could be deadly!

[Frosty]

They can't ban ninjas, I already hired one in case zombies invade. FML.

[LTb1ow]

Well if fanboii has his way, we will all live in padded cells and eat food like in the matrix cause its SAFE! No more driving cars, heck you really shouldn't breath, thats dangerous to your health.

And everyone wants to be safe.

[sweetbmxrider]

nah yo, neo pops from that ****!

[BigAls87Z28]

Everyone just needs Viper alarm systems really. It kept a bunch of crazies at bay from a Z06 with a park bench on it in Brick.

[BigRocsFirebird]

i can see why a ak-47 wouldnt be the best to use in home protection since if i shoot that and its not going into something solid that babys going right through my house into my neighbors. personaly if someone was to break into my house i'm using the shotgun, duel 45's or our snake gun. the double barrel shoots a 410 shotgun shell or a 45 longcolt

[WildBillyT]

i can see why a ak-47 wouldnt be the best to use in home protection since if i shoot that and its not going into something solid that babys going right through my house into my neighbors.

Exactly. Spray and pray will sling a lot of bullets.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Exactly. Spray and pray will sling a lot of bullets.

yeah not to much spray since nj can't have fully auto or burst. but theres a way to shoot the gun and use the recoil to shoot it like a fully auto. its called Bumb fireing i've gotten really good at it. i could empty a 30 round mag under 4 seconds. or if your triger happy yes theres a lot of spray lol

[WildBillyT]

yeah not to much spray since nj can't have fully auto or burst. but theres a way to shoot the gun and use the recoil to shoot it like a fully auto. its called Bumb fireing i've gotten really good at it. i could empty a 30 round mag under 4 seconds. or if your triger happy yes theres a lot of spray lol

Yeah, I was figuring you meant a full auto AK or other full auto rifle. Your point is still valid though. :nod:

[LTb1ow]

You should only be allowed to own the gun if its barrel is filled in and you only can throw the rounds at people.

[sweetbmxrider]

what if you had a .50 cal blow gun?

[LTb1ow]

what if you had a .50 cal blow gun?

With poison darts???????

[j0n]

Gun and a spoon are tools.

Guns are tools, each designed with a specific job in mind. To say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.


I do want to see stronger regulation on the most dangerious guns. Assault rifles are not needed for home defense, IMO.

What, exactly makes one gun "more dangerous" than another? And while we're on the subject... WTF is an assault rifle? Assault is an action. A gun is an inanimate object. If you're referring to an AR or AK-type variant, they make fantastic home defense weapons. Most high-speed small diameter rifle ammo will fragment upon impact, stopping an assailant in his tracks, and minimizing the chance of injury to any bystanders.

Ban the caliber and style of bullet.

WTF!? Ban a particular caliber and style of bullet? I'd imagine you are referring to hollow-point type ammunition, which has the LOWEST chance of collateral damage, and is the BEST choice for self defense. And caliber restrictions??? The fact that you even bring this up as an option shows how ignorant you are. I'd love to know what you think any caliber restriction will accomplish.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Yeah, I was figuring you meant a full auto AK or other full auto rifle. Your point is still valid though. :nod:

Yes sir:lol:

[BigAls87Z28]

Guns are tools, each designed with a specific job in mind. To say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.

Specific? Kill would be specific I guess.


What, exactly makes one gun "more dangerous" than another? And while we're on the subject... WTF is an assault rifle? Assault is an action. A gun is an inanimate object. If you're referring to an AR or AK-type variant, they make fantastic home defense weapons. Most high-speed small diameter rifle ammo will fragment upon impact, stopping an assailant in his tracks, and minimizing the chance of injury to any bystanders.

I wouldnt call the AK a small diameter round, AK round is pretty big.
5.62 round is a bit smaller, and doesn't fragment as much as it just can be tossed around easier inside the body, reducing the bullet blowing through the body. As far as stopping power...AK has much better chance at stopping someone due to caliper, but also has a greater chance the bullet going through the body.



WTF!? Ban a particular caliber and style of bullet? I'd imagine you are referring to hollow-point type ammunition, which has the LOWEST chance of collateral damage, and is the BEST choice for self defense. And caliber restrictions??? The fact that you even bring this up as an option shows how ignorant you are. I'd love to know what you think any caliber restriction will accomplish.

Now you are putting words into my mouth. Hollow points are good for home defense, bad when they are used by the wrong people. Hollow point is designed to be a killer round, and when that round finds its way into the hands of the wrong people, bad things happen. The hollow point round does limit collateral damage, yes, but if the round is fired accidentally, or at the wrong person, you are looking at a world of hurt for that person, possibly an innocent bystander. There is no safe bullet, there is no safe gun.

You can go back and forth on this, and its why this is such a heated topic. How do you decide who is a good American that can enjoy the 2nd amendment right, and who do you say cant? How do you limit certain guns to reach the hands of bad people?
Limiting guns that have fully automatic capability, large capacity magazines, larger caliber rounds, etc etc are there to stop the flow of these types of guns to the general public.
Yes, criminals can get these types of guns, but that is not a great point for average Americans to have them. Average Americans are not law enforcement or military.

[sweetbmxrider]

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

[WildBillyT]

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

[BigAls87Z28]

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?
j0n talks about stopping power, and I would say a 1911 .45 ACP round will do way more at stopping people from harming you then a fully automatic machine gun would.

[LTb1ow]

12 guage straight to the face. I would take a nice shotgun over an ak for cqb

[crainholio]

That sounds ultra-safe. Any ******* with a drivers license can get a gun. Maybe thats why Baltimore Police are one of the few citites still hiring police.

Maryland's carry permit process is as restrictive as NJ's, average law-abiding citizen can not get one.

So while any *** with a drivers license can buy a gun, only police and a very tiny few others can be armed in public.

Compare violent crime statistics from either NJ or MD to any state with non-discretionary issuance of carry permits if you're ready for an awakening.

[crainholio]

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ. Felony crime just for possessing it.

[WildBillyT]

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ. Felony crime just for possessing it.

I am aware of this. I think there are issues with pistol grip shotguns anyway, correct? However I can see the value in making those OK for home defense. It's full auto stuff for home use I don't get. Seems like there are much better options.

[Frosty]

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ.

That shotgun gives me a stiffie.

[WildBillyT]

That shotgun gives me a stiffie.

Side note. I want one really ****ing bad. Yes, it's a heavily used hollywood wonder gun like the Desert Eagle. I STILL want one.

[crainholio]

Ban the caliber and style of bullet.

So, lets just ban all guns? Easy enough....

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

[Featherburner]

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?
j0n talks about stopping power, and I would say a 1911 .45 ACP round will do way more at stopping people from harming you then a fully automatic machine gun would.Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

[BigAls87Z28]

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

So, you would protect that same constitution if the 2nd was repealed?
Not that I want that, I just wanted to see the reaction.

[j0n]

Specific? Kill would be specific I guess.

There are probably twice as many gun-related contests as there are car-related contests. They don't count then I suppose? Do you also have a problem with my desire to hunt deer and pheasant? Would you rather bambi destroys the front end of your turd gen? How about hunting bear? I need a pretty beefy round to take down a bear.


I wouldnt call the AK a small diameter round, AK round is pretty big.
5.62 round is a bit smaller, and doesn't fragment as much as it just can be tossed around easier inside the body, reducing the bullet blowing through the body. As far as stopping power...AK has much better chance at stopping someone due to caliper, but also has a greater chance the bullet going through the body.

And this is why you should never, EVER, have anything to do with firearm laws and this state, country, or any municipality. An AK-type variant typically fires a 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or 7.62x54r round. Guess what? Two out of three of those are 1.5 times SMALLER in diameter than the .45acp you recommend yourself! Also, all 3 have way more stopping power, and guess what... at close range, THEY FRAGMENT! The "5.62" you refer to, is I suppose 5.56x45, is larger than the 5.45x39 fired out of a LARGE cross-section of ak-type rifles yet you allude to it being smaller, and it TOO has shown that in typical inside-the-home distances it will fragment. Use frangible ammo, and there is less than a 1% chance of collateral damage.


Now you are putting words into my mouth. Hollow points are good for home defense, bad when they are used by the wrong people. Hollow point is designed to be a killer round, and when that round finds its way into the hands of the wrong people, bad things happen. The hollow point round does limit collateral damage, yes, but if the round is fired accidentally, or at the wrong person, you are looking at a world of hurt for that person, possibly an innocent bystander.

Remember the Hollywood shootout? How many cops and civilians were killed and wounded as a result of the bad guys having more powerful weapons than the cops? The instant that tragedy ended, police departments everywhere began equipping themselves with semi-automatic rifles to give them a fighting chance. The mere possibility that some "omfg scary hollow-point" bullet could make its way into the hands of a criminal makes it THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT that I have the ability to arm myself with the same firepower. On a similar note, if you fire a FMJ bullet accidentally, not only the person in the line of fire will be injured, but so will the person behind him, and behind him, etc etc.


You can go back and forth on this, and its why this is such a heated topic. How do you decide who is a good American that can enjoy the 2nd amendment right, and who do you say cant? How do you limit certain guns to reach the hands of bad people?


Anyone who is not a criminal is entitled to EVERYTHING listed on the Bill of Rights, without restriction. The second I commit a crime I lose those rights, but while I am a law-abiding citizen of the United States of America, the 2nd Amendment guarantees me the right to own and carry any gun I choose to have.


Limiting guns that have fully automatic capability, large capacity magazines, larger caliber rounds, etc etc are there to stop the flow of these types of guns to the general public.
Yes, criminals can get these types of guns, but that is not a great point for average Americans to have them.

How many legally purchased fully-automatic weapons find their way into the hands of criminals? Any idea? Do you know how much they freaking cost, and how hard it is to get them? I'd wager my salary that less than .01% of legally purchased fully-automatic weapons in the United States ever made their way into the hands of criminal, let alone were used in a crime. Yet, illegally purchased guns continue to find their way into the hands of criminals. That reason alone is a FANTASTIC POINT for me to have them too.

Average Americans are not law enforcement or military.

Exactly, and when seconds matter, the Police and Military are minutes, even hours away.

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

You're right Billy. That would be an excellent home-defense weapon, but in the state of NJ it would be illegal.

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?

100-round drum would be fun for the range, and would be the only thing I would use it for. A 30-round magazine is what the AK and AR platforms were designed for, and would be my choice should I ever need to defend myself with one, however, it is illegal for me to own one in this ridiculous state.

[BigAls87Z28]

Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

Thats the argument being made here, that having guns is a personal protection thing.

[j0n]

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

Thank you for your service. Just remember that even in this godforsaken lib-tard infested state there are still those of us who do not take freedoms for granted.

Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

Amen. This discussion really is quite pointless, as the 2nd Amendment protects my right to own any firearm I want, regardless of reason.

So, you would protect that same constitution if the 2nd was repealed?
Not that I want that, I just wanted to see the reaction.

If that ever came to be, we would have a 2nd Civil War, and you can guess whose side I'd be fighting for.

[WildBillyT]

A 2nd amendment repeal would leave a lot of Americans extremely vulnerable.

[Frosty]

Thats the argument being made here, that having guns is a personal protection thing.

They are making the argument for personal protection but it's also just not their home they'd be protecting.

[Frosty]

A 2nd amendment repeal would leave a lot of Americans extremely vulnerable.

...and if it happened, which I don't think it ever would, we as Americans would deserve everything we got if we let it happen.

[BigAls87Z28]

It never would, and not because of some silly "right" to own a gun, but the industry that makes guns would probably have something to say.
Hell, look what happened to ammo prices and gun sales when a democrat was elected as President. Smith & Wesson, Colt, etc etc should write the DNC a check every month.

I still do not buy that CCW = Safer neighborhoods.

[j0n]

It never would, and not because of some silly "right" to own a gun, but the industry that makes guns would probably have something to say.
Hell, look what happened to ammo prices and gun sales when a democrat was elected as President. Smith & Wesson, Colt, etc etc should write the DNC a check every month.

I still do not buy that CCW = Safer neighborhoods.

Feel free to not buy it. The proof is in the statistics. I don't know how else to enlighten you, Al.

[crainholio]

So, you would protect that same constitution if the 2nd was repealed?
Not that I want that, I just wanted to see the reaction.

Arguing hypotheticals is pointless.

Conditions or circumstances which might lead to a Constitutional amendment eliminating any portion of the Bill of Rights do not presently exist. And I haven't seen any mention of a Constitutional Convention, either.

[BigAls87Z28]

You talk about Texas, where everything is spread out and compare it to a state like NJ where we have dense population.
I could point you to Japan, where guns are illegal and gun crimes are way below.
I can show you that as gun sales increase, gun crime increase in the US.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

The graphs that show Florida, Texas, and Michigan show decrease, but the country as a whole also saw decrease in murder rates.

[WildBillyT]

You talk about Texas, where everything is spread out and compare it to a state like NJ where we have dense population.
I could point you to Japan, where guns are illegal and gun crimes are way below.
I can show you that as gun sales increase, gun crime increase in the US.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

The graphs that show Florida, Texas, and Michigan show decrease, but the country as a whole also saw decrease in murder rates.

Correlation does not imply causation. Other factors are always at play.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hey, Im not the one trying to prove that CCW = safety. So far, guns are needed for protection and the more guns people have, the safer America is. I don't buy that at all.

[WildBillyT]

Hey, Im not the one trying to prove that CCW = safety. So far, guns are needed for protection and the more guns people have, the safer America is. I don't buy that at all.

Owning guns is a necessity for people who live in the more rural parts of the country. And there are a lot of those. For people who live in high crime areas, I'd say CCW is very beneficial as well. You can't argue that guns for all = more safety any more than you can argue that no guns equal the same thing.

[BigAls87Z28]

Owning guns is a necessity for people who live in the more rural parts of the country. And there are a lot of those. For people who live in high crime areas, I'd say CCW is very beneficial as well. You can't argue that guns for all = more safety any more than you can argue that no guns equal the same thing.

Sure I could, Japan.

Sure, and that's what states rights are there for, because what is good for New Jersey is not good for states like Texas or Maine.

[WildBillyT]

Sure I could, Japan.

Sure, and that's what states rights are there for, because what is good for New Jersey is not good for states like Texas or Maine.

No, you can't. Their values are different than ours. Guilt, shame, honor, etc. That plays a factor just like their gun laws.

How about Great Britain? Their firearms laws are way stricter than ours but they have a higher crime rate than us. And our population is 310,765,000 vs their 61,792,000.

I'm not going to start another argument, but comparing what works for other countries thinking it can apply to us is wrong. Happens all the time surrounding universal health care.

[bad64chevelle]

Besides my 1942 M-1 Garand which is just like the one my grandfather dragged across europe can flip you over backwards long before Jerome can get in range with an AK. Should we ban them too.

Please, don't even joke around about the banning of the M1 Garand, and don't get me started about how the M1Carbine is banned in NJ.

On another note, this thread is so full of fail now, that I had an entire post written up but deleted it since I know it would only add fuel to the fire.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Please, don't even joke around about the banning of the M1 Garand, and don't get me started about how the M1Carbine is banned in NJ.

On another note, this thread is so full of fail now, that I had an entire post written up but deleted it since I know it would only add fuel to the fire.

There's a lot of fuel for this fire, I'm shocked it didn't get locked. But this is like the biggest thread I've made sofar. But I want to get a M1 Garand bad

[WildBillyT]

There's a lot of fuel for this fire, I'm shocked it didn't get locked. But this is like the biggest thread I've made sofar. But I want to get a M1 Garand bad

It's staying respectful for the most part.

[bad64chevelle]

There's a lot of fuel for this fire, I'm shocked it didn't get locked. But this is like the biggest thread I've made sofar. But I want to get a M1 Garand bad

Out of what I own, it is definitely my favorite. An absolute beast, but such a joy to fire.

[BigRocsFirebird]

It's staying respectful for the most part.

Yeah it is but I just figured something I started would get shutdown cause its me but idk what al is on. He's sticking to his point strong but hey its his opinion

[NastyEllEssWon]

yeah al, the second amendment is also a protection for civilians against those that are supposed to protect you. if the govt wanted to just come in your house and take everything you own how are you going to stop them, they have more firepower than you now. there needs to be a level playing field. if the govt has the right to use it to protect you, you have the right to use it to protect yourself from them.


on a sidenote...what would happen if another country invaded us and we're all running around with 22 caliber pea shooters. :lol:

[j0n]

If shall-issue CCW works in 40+ states, why won't it work here?

[PolarBear]

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?
The point is the magazin restrictions are waaaaaay too strict. Honestly besides 2 what is the difference between a 15 rd magaizine and a 17 round mag that my Taurus originally came with? 2 LOUSY ROUNDS, that is considered HIGH CAPACITY. Seriously? Give me a friggin break. If 2 rounds is going to make or break a shootout God help us all.

Average Americans are not law enforcement or military.

I dont think this statement could be more incorrect. When the military DRAFTS people do you think they give a rats ass how you do on your ASVAB? (sorry if I got the spelling wrong) If you do piss poor on your test, guess where you wind up? Infantry. I knew a guy who was drafted in (korea I think) he is a super smart egghead but he got drafted. He is a skinny, no muscle guy who could barely get the grenade out of the bunker during training. He told me at the end of basic training the Sargent or who ever was erasing his scores to make him pass.

When the Bill of rights was drafted WE, the average American, WERE the military and the law written so we could defend ourselves from enemies foreign and domestic. I would consider a theif an enemy, wouldnt YOU?

A 2nd amendment repeal would leave a lot of Americans extremely vulnerable.

Holy s***, never thought about that before but yeah. I think a lot of people would be seriously f-ed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

ANY state law pretty much infringes on our RIGHT to bear arms.



I think the biggest thing with the state laws, which j0n has pointed out really well and several times, that laws ONLY hinder LAW ABIDING citizens.



Also I will have more about the permit thing soon.

[WildBillyT]

Holy s***, never thought about that before but yeah. I think a lot of people would be seriously f-ed.



I have been in some very remote parts of the country that have people living there, but are probably HOURS out of range of local law enforcement. I can imagine that living there means providing all local services on your own.

[BigRocsFirebird]

I have been in some very remote parts of the country that have people living there, but are probably HOURS out of range of local law enforcement. I can imagine that living there means providing all local services on your own.

That's a scarey thing. Helps far away for some of those people.

[BigAls87Z28]

If shall-issue CCW works in 40+ states, why won't it work here?

Who said it wouldn't work here?
For the most part, I'm playing devils advocate here. Ive shot guns since I was 12 years old, and was a member of the NRA for a long time.

Yes, laws are only designed to restrict the law-abiding. I love that one.
I don't see how having MORE guns, removing restrictions off all guns means that things will be easier?

I support gun control, and gun education.

[j0n]

Who said it wouldn't work here?

Seems like you did.


I still do not buy that CCW = Safer neighborhoods.

[BigAls87Z28]

No, I dont think that CCW would mean safer streets.
I do think that it would "work" in the sense that people would be civil about it. Problem I have is that I think some people will think CCW means they are peace-keepers.

[Firebird92]

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

my dad has a S&W 500 on the bed side ....... even if you miss the point is still clear

AL no matter how many laws, bans limits or restriction there are if someone wants something they will get it and do what they want with it just like drugs illegal but there are people that can get them in a matter of seconds.There is no safe place where there are people there is some sense or crime

[j0n]

No, I dont think that CCW would mean safer streets.
I do think that it would "work" in the sense that people would be civil about it. Problem I have is that I think some people will think CCW means they are peace-keepers.

And those few people (if any) would be convicted and tossed in jail soon after the process goes into effect. For reference, when Florida went to shall-issue CCW in 1987, they issued 204,108 permits in 6 years. In those same 6 years, EIGHTEEN permits were revoked. That sort of hard data surely supports your "vigilante fire-fights" stance.

[j0n]

my dad has a S&W 500 on the bed side ....... even if you miss the point is still clear

No offense to your father but that is a terrible choice for a nightstand gun. The recoil is tough to control with one hand at the range, let alone in a high-stress situation. Nevermind the fact that the majority of the round's energy won't transfer to your target. A .357 is the best choice if you use a revolver.

[BigRocsFirebird]

No offense to your father but that is a terrible choice for a nightstand gun. The recoil is tough to control with one hand at the range, let alone in a high-stress situation. Nevermind the fact that the majority of the round's energy won't transfer to your target. A .357 is the best choice if you use a revolver.

Yeah 357 is a good choice and we also have this in our nightstand also. For the top barrel they say you should use the 410 shotgun shell with birdshot. that was you can't miss and you stun them. Then you shoot again but you have the 45 longcolt in the bottom barrel to finish. The gun is pretty nasty we have one and its pretty small.


http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/gunSS4large.gif

[j0n]

Yeah 357 is a good choice and we also have this in our nightstand also. For the top barrel they say you should use the 410 shotgun shell with birdshot. that was you can't miss and you stun them. Then you shoot again but you have the 45 longcolt in the bottom barrel to finish. The gun is pretty nasty we have one and its pretty small.


http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u350/RockyV911/gunSS4large.gif

Birdshot is for little birds, not bad guys. Birdshot won't do **** to a bad guy. A Derringer like that is also a terrible home-defense gun. Two inaccurate rounds against a determined adversary = bad news.

[LTb1ow]

http://consumermaven.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/mossbergm590a1.jpg

Lil on the big side, but if its a strict home gun, folding stock ftw.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Birdshot is for little birds, not bad guys. Birdshot won't do **** to a bad guy. A Derringer like that is also a terrible home-defense gun. Two inaccurate rounds against a determined adversary = bad news.

you're not getting the point. birdshot to the face you can't miss them. if your shot in the face with that your gonna be stunned then you take them out with the 45 long colt. we also have buck shot for it. but we have shotguns and all kinds of guns.

[j0n]

you're not getting the point. birdshot to the face you can't miss them. if your shot in the face with that your gonna be stunned then you take them out with the 45 long colt. we also have buck shot for it. but we have shotguns and all kinds of guns.

Please for the love of God take a self-defense in the home class, or something similar. You're thought process on this topic is way off track, and could get you killed.

[j0n]

http://consumermaven.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/mossbergm590a1.jpg

Lil on the big side, but if its a strict home gun, folding stock ftw.

I prefer a full stock on my shotties... gives you WAY more control over the gun. Good looking rig!