Need some advice [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Firebird92

11-20-2010, 08:30 PM

well it's the winter time. time to build something for next year..
now i have a 1991 firebird TPI 350, th700r trans, stock gears

now that i wanted to do was Twin turbo it. making 400-500 HP
now i was thinking of getting a 383 block off summit racing and using that as my base. i dont know what heads to use so many to pick, but the biggest problem I'm having is the transmission i can't find a good trans shop or someone to give me some advice on to either upgrade my trans or buy new and then the rear-end. if anyone has any advice or knows a shop plzz tell me

as for the body, suspension and brakes i have all that taken care of

Tru2Chevy

11-20-2010, 09:02 PM

Best advice I can give if you are serious about making that kind of power is to spend your money from the back to the front. Lay out a budget and start with a new rear (12 bolt / 9" / S60 / Dana 44 all will work), then your supporting suspension, then a driveshaft and trans, then the engine.

Talk to SSP and JS Performance about beefing up your trans, I believe either shop can take care of that for you. Whiplash is also able to hook you up with a new trans from Performabuilt. You can also talk to Josh @ JS about building a 383 for you to complement your plans for the car.

- Justin

Firebird92

11-20-2010, 11:48 PM

sweet yea im super serious i saved up all like 12000 just for this so it's getting done i rented a garage got all the tools tape book everything lol the snapon guy loves me lol mmm a ford 9 sound nice a Dana i hear is hard to work on ooo a 12 bolt mmm so many things to pick ... oo and tuning who does that ?

S.J.SLEEPER

11-21-2010, 01:14 AM

s60 or dana
turbo 400 trans
set of cheap obx 1 3/4" headers, flip em, cut flanges off & weld vband flanges on it
buy & fab rest of your turbo parts
for a 383 twin 60-1's will work real nice
as for 383 you want a 9:1-9.5:1 cr
the TFS heads f'n rock on a sbc, I have seen them w/a mean cam make 500hp w/out power adder.

if going turbo hope you have a tpi setup that you can switch over to speed density or invest in a dfi or eldebrock efi setup.

good luck with build !!!

Firebird92

11-21-2010, 06:08 PM

ok i like this now in your personal opinion should i buy a 383, bore out the 350 or build the 350 already in the car with 120miles on it one owner I know i need to rebuild the whole motor in order to take the stress. and a other question the motor i have now has a MAF on it do can it be form an 88-90 3gen and wouldn't that be better then the speed density

NastyEllEssWon

11-21-2010, 06:28 PM

why turbo??? you can build a newer motor to handle plenty of power without wasting time on gen 1 garbage. hell even al went lsx :lol:

Tru2Chevy

11-21-2010, 06:32 PM

You are better off going with SD with a 2 bar MAP sensor over the MAF for a turbo setup.

- Justin

mc73nova

11-21-2010, 06:39 PM

Steve's Transmission Repair, 904 Fredon Road Stillwater, NJ 07875 - (973) 579-2055. He only works on High Performance applications.

BonzoHansen

11-21-2010, 07:02 PM

sweetbmxrider

11-21-2010, 07:52 PM

a single turbo on a low to moderate psi will make your power no problem.

why turbo??? you can build a newer motor to handle plenty of power without wasting time on gen 1 garbage. hell even al went lsx :lol:

you'd also spend half the budget on the motor, trans, wiring, exhaust and not have a turbo. you are also pretty funny called a gen 1 garbage.

BonzoHansen

11-21-2010, 07:55 PM

Yeah, because there are no fast SBC powered cars out there.

S.J.SLEEPER

11-21-2010, 09:23 PM

Yeah, because there are no fast SBC powered cars out there.

:stupid:

As I stated before, He can make 500 N/A But he wants to do a twin turbo,
wether or not its just the fact of having it +1 for coolness factor,but +2 for easily bumping the h.p. when he gets bored of 500hp!!!

500hp very easy w/twin turbo setup @ low boost settings, the BIG + for this is since he has a low #goal, will not need huge injectors or have to run meth injection.

OKay NOW..... Back to the OP.383ci very cheap these days to do. Look into a forged setup ie:
Eagle forged crank,Rods, pistons etc.. (these will put you to about 750hp limit)
machine shop can easily do the work for you with your stock block.

Cam: you can go with realitivly high lift cam, just make sure the duration is close along w/ lift ie: 208/212 .491"/498" (not suggesting this cam, just comparison for the split of #'s your looking for!!!)

F.I.:tpi setup ok, you will need to run a 2 bar map, run it car in speed density (some yrs. were in speed density, not sure what yrs. early lt1 z28s I believe)
60lb. motron injectors
twin walbro 255's intank (modify bucket to fit)

Turbos: 60-1 (t60's or t61's will work great)t3/t4 housing
for very quik spool order with a .63 a/r exhaust housing
for good spool with broad boost/rpm range use .84 a/r exhaust housing

dual 38mm wastegates will do ya just fine

headers/piping: 1 3/4" primaries, 2 "- 2 1/2" hot side to turbo, 2 3/4"- 3" out from turbo exhaust housing merged to single 3 1/2"- 4" to muffler

intercooler: 3" thick 2.5"inlet/outlets all cold side 2.5" then to 3"+ right before throttle body.

All this here will get you 500hp in a heartbeat !!! just crank the boost up to 10-15 lbs and you'll be 750+
good luck w/ build.

p.s. my dream when I was 17 was to have the first twin turbo Z in South Jerzy, Now its finalyy getting done, I just won't be the First !!! :-x(but I might be the fastest:mrgreen:)

The Fixer

11-21-2010, 10:41 PM

just trying to keep things legal. tpi is trash and going carbed would be a step backwards in emissions. why not move forward and get the hp and economy.

Indeed, but TPI with twin turbos = ridiculous amounts of torque, which is tons of fun. I was in Andris Skulte's TT IROC years ago, and that car was just insane, even with the stock TPI intake. His site is just a shell of what it used to be, but here's some info about it - http://www.skulte.com/turbo.html .

Firebird92

11-21-2010, 11:17 PM

"i wanted to do was Twin turbo it. making 400-500 HP" - if that is all you make with twin turbo you're doing it wrong. That can be done NA.

IMO going twin turbo you are not buying an off the shelf crate.

What are your goals for the car? Drag racing? Showing? AutoX-road course? Doe sit need to be emissions legal?

emissions hahah no
well it was going to be my hot rod so to speak because in my family everyone has one so it's my turn now
i know I'm not doing anything different or new it just i want this and like SLEEPER said its the coolness of seeing TT once you pop the hood and i can get more HP with the push of a button

you'd also spend half the budget on the motor, trans, wiring, exhaust and not have a turbo. you are also pretty funny called a gen 1 garbage.
yea i'm seeing that now but i see it as this if i have to save a other 8000 for the turbo setup i want then so be it i will have a built 383 or 350 ready for TT

Tru2Chevy

11-22-2010, 04:41 PM

just trying to keep things legal. tpi is trash and going carbed would be a step backwards in emissions. why not move forward and get the hp and economy.

N/A TPI is not the way for any sort of horsepower, but when pressurized you can make great power with a TPI setup. Why spend 1/2 his budget to convert to an LSx setup when he can meet (or far exceed) his goals with the setup he already has?

- Justin

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 05:40 PM

What I want to know is how many 500 hp TPI powered SBC members are on here? I for one can say for a fact that I have not met anyone on here and aside from track cars I dont think I have ever met anyone. I have met a buch of 3rd gen owners who have modified cars but none making 500hp or with TT's. Is there a reason for that?

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 05:45 PM

:stupid:

OKay NOW..... Back to the OP.383ci very cheap these days to do. Look into a forged setup ie:
Eagle forged crank,Rods, pistons etc.. (these will put you to about 750hp limit)
machine shop can easily do the work for you with your stock block.

All this here will get you 500hp in a heartbeat !!! just crank the boost up to 10-15 lbs and you'll be 750+
good luck w/ build.

:)

If the motor has a limit of 750hp then why would you want to make 750+hp?

Kat

11-22-2010, 05:55 PM

sweetbmxrider

11-22-2010, 05:56 PM

actually eagle rates their forged pieces at 1000 flywheel hp. maybe him saying about 750hp limit meant it could be above 750hp and making 750+ on higher boost meant only a little more?

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 05:56 PM

You're right. I make over 500 hp NA... :D

Like I said I have never met anyone so I guess you would be a 1st. Would love to see some dyno numbers of your car..

Kat

11-22-2010, 06:04 PM

Like I said I have never met anyone so I guess you would be a 1st. Would love to see some dyno numbers of your car..

Me to. I just have timeslips. :shrug: Last time I was there (about a year ago) I had fuel/ignition problems and put 394 to the wheels.

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 06:06 PM

actually eagle rates their forged pieces at 1000 flywheel hp. maybe him saying about 750hp limit meant it could be above 750hp and making 750+ on higher boost meant only a little more?

Actually it depends on what Rod and Crank you get! They range from 500-1200hp depending on the style and amount of money you want to spend..

Me to. I just have timeslips. :shrug: Last time I was there (about a year ago) I had fuel/ignition problems and put 394 to the wheels.

Thats very cool. Hope you got that Fuel and Ignition issue taken care of. Is it a stealth ram setup?

Kat

11-22-2010, 06:12 PM

Thats very cool. Hope you got that Fuel and Ignition issue taken care of. Is it a stealth ram setup?

Oh they have been taken care of. 30lb SVO's weren't enough. So I bought 42lb'ers. Ign was the crappy stock ing mod that comes in the MSD billet dist's. Replaced that with a stock GM one I had kickin around. All was good after that.

Yep it is a stealth ram.

sweetbmxrider

11-22-2010, 06:15 PM

Actually it depends on what Rod and Crank you get! They range from 500-1200hp depending on the style and amount of money you want to spend..

I have met hundreds of TPI/TBI 3rd gen owners who's car dont move either, Reason being?

a standard weight 4340 3.75" eagle crank is actually rated at 1500 hp, sorry.

do you actively search for 500hp 3rd gens with tpi intakes and a couple snails? i sure don't

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 06:25 PM

a standard weight 4340 3.75" eagle crank is actually rated at 1500 hp, sorry.

do you actively search for 500hp 3rd gens with tpi intakes and a couple snails? i sure don't

You stated that all Eagle forged parts are rated to 1000 hp.
http://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=40

No I dont actively search for 500hp TPI 3rd gens. I just mentioned that I dont really know of any and just wonderred if there is a reason behind it?

JSPERFORMANCE

11-22-2010, 07:35 PM

What I want to know is how many 500 hp TPI powered SBC members are on here? ?

HI.. Its for sale too.. :)

S.J.SLEEPER

11-22-2010, 08:28 PM

OK...... to all you numbnuts arguing about horspower/Eagle parts

Sure.... crank rated to 1500hp Buuuuutttttt what good is the crank to 1500 if the rods are only rated for 500, 700, or 1200?

as for the approx. hp rating I stated:
750 limit (talking Rear Wheel hp) that is what I PERSONALLY would push Eagle Products to.
if rods he purchases is only rated to 500, evryone knows they will go farther than that, But OBVIOUSLY.... If he was to build a motor looking for 500hp, he wouldnt buy the rods that are rated for 500 he would buy ones that are good for 700 or higher.

I am not an Eagle Product fan, but 700-800hp max, they are about the best bang for the buck !!!
I personally use Callies or Lunati cranks.

For the O.P....... If your going with the Eagle Setup, Make sure you buy a rotating assy that is good for 1000hp and you will have no problems w/ 500-750 goal.

okay now..... Proceed with the bickering

:popcorn:

:popcorn:

:popcorn:

Slow-V6

11-22-2010, 09:21 PM

HI.. Its for sale too.. :)

That makes 2 so far. And I have never met you as well.
OK...... to all you numbnuts arguing about horspower/Eagle parts

Sure.... crank rated to 1500hp Buuuuutttttt what good is the crank to 1500 if the rods are only rated for 500, 700, or 1200?

as for the approx. hp rating I stated:
750 limit (talking Rear Wheel hp) that is what I PERSONALLY would push Eagle Products to.
if rods he purchases is only rated to 500, evryone knows they will go farther than that, But OBVIOUSLY.... If he was to build a motor looking for 500hp, he wouldnt buy the rods that are rated for 500 he would buy ones that are good for 700 or higher.

I am not an Eagle Product fan, but 700-800hp max, they are about the best bang for the buck !!!
I personally use Callies or Lunati cranks.

For the O.P....... If your going with the Eagle Setup, Make sure you buy a rotating assy that is good for 1000hp and you will have no problems w/ 500-750 goal.
:

Very well put.

Frosty

11-23-2010, 07:37 AM

It's all about economics, most people that own thirdgens aren't willing to put the time and $$$ or don't have the means to build a monster. Most get caught up in buying ugly as **** 4thgen Camaro(aka Metro and Sebring look-a-likes) or they want a LS1 T/A.

Building a N/A TPI motor can get costly but like Justin said...you boost a TPI motor and it's a ton of fun and can make some serious power.

The OP is looking for 400-500 according to the post...which is obtainable for a TT SBC. Would a LS1 make more power? Possibly but the massive amounts of torque will easily overcome not having an insane amount of HP however that's just my opinion. I make less horsepower than bolt on LS1's but the torque makes them look silly(well, until higher mph lol).

EDIT: Also, I think he said he has a $12K budget....if you think you can do a twin turbo LS1 swap the RIGHT way(no hack jobs, no shortcuts) you're on crack ;):D. Factor in everything else...it's just not happening on that budget. LS1 swaps the right way aren't cheap...and I don't mean hacking up wiring harnesses, cutting this and cutting that...

sweetbmxrider

11-23-2010, 10:08 AM

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53819

OP, here's a high boost build. this is not someone who takes things lightly either. he also doesn't swap ls1's cause not everyone can have the bestest thing ever.

sweetbmxrider

11-23-2010, 10:37 AM

OP, you also need to consider where your piping and turbos will be placed. space is something you need to be aware of. you should make a thread in the tech area to further explore YOUR desired build. plenty of 3rd gen nerds here to help :)

Firebird92

11-23-2010, 10:58 PM

p.s. I'm 35 yrs old and I think the 2nd to oldest here.....So if there will be any Skooling Around here.....It will be me!!!:nod:
:bow::bow:

anyway I'm about to pull the motor tomorrow i think i'm going to have a engine shop bore out the 350 i have now and i get a built turbo 400 or th700r i know the 700 are alot of money but the 400 is crazy strong... i found a S60 rear beat and a 12 bolt lsd with disk brakes idk what to get here .... i looking at alot of cams and heads .... would it be better to get a cam/head kit or not and Im thing of mounting the turbos over the valve covers or like this im making my own i don't trust this cheap $300 dollar turbo manifold
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/eworldgaragesales/Picture005-eworld.jpg

NastyEllEssWon

11-24-2010, 02:02 AM

p.s. I'm 35 yrs old and I think the 2nd to oldest here.....So if there will be any Skooling Around here.....It will be me!!!:nod:

lol you are far from the second eldest on this board. hell i can think of plenty that have at least 10 years on you around here. hell old man bill might be 4 times older than you :lol:

S.J.SLEEPER

11-24-2010, 06:20 PM

lol you are far from the second eldest on this board. hell i can think of plenty that have at least 10 years on you around here. hell old man bill might be 4 times older than you :lol:

hahaha, I don't actually know, it was a comment posted to me awhile back saying that I was like the 2nd or 3rd oldest here, oh well, don't really matter.

O.P.:
I would just look for a set of 1 3/4" shorty headers by Edelbrock,JBA,Slp, doesn't really matter as long as they are a quality header and won't crack. you can then flip them so facing foward, I do not suggest building your own cuz they take up quite amount of time to do correctly.
you can either cut flanges off and weld vband flanges or you can weld a 3bolt flange to the 2 1/2" pipe you are connecting it to w/ t3/t4 flange on end.

Take you time,mount the turbos where you want them located & them work your way back to the headers

Firebird92

11-24-2010, 10:05 PM

hahaha, I don't actually know, it was a comment posted to me awhile back saying that I was like the 2nd or 3rd oldest here, oh well, don't really matter.

O.P.:
I would just look for a set of 1 3/4" shorty headers by Edelbrock,JBA,Slp, doesn't really matter as long as they are a quality header and won't crack. you can then flip them so facing foward, I do not suggest building your own cuz they take up quite amount of time to do correctly.
you can either cut flanges off and weld vband flanges or you can weld a 3bolt flange to the 2 1/2" pipe you are connecting it to w/ t3/t4 flange on end.

Take you time,mount the turbos where you want them located & them work your way back to the headers

mmm yea but i would like to learn as much as i can if it takes 2 month for headers so be it.. that's something new i know how to do.. as my father say you never stop learning even in death you learn something--life sucks hahahha

Firebird92

11-25-2010, 09:54 PM

well it will be about a week before i will know if this block can be bored with no problems

Slow-V6

11-25-2010, 10:49 PM

well it will be about a week before i will know if this block can be bored with no problems

Figured I would post this up since I talked to you about it over PM's but will a Stealth ram fit under the stock Formula hood? I am pretty sure it will but most of the cars I have seen it on are either Camaros or Firebirds with Ram air hoods..

Kat

11-26-2010, 08:42 AM

Figured I would post this up since I talked to you about it over PM's but will a Stealth ram fit under the stock Formula hood? I am pretty sure it will but most of the cars I have seen it on are either Camaros or Firebirds with Ram air hoods..

Barely you have to cut the bracing under it.

If you have the extra money get a miniram. No clearance issues there.

Firebird92

11-28-2010, 12:26 AM

Barely you have to cut the bracing under it.

If you have the extra money get a miniram. No clearance issues there.

that's the ones on the round body SS Monte's?

deadtrend1

11-28-2010, 09:14 AM

that's the ones on the round body SS Monte's?

Looks like LT1 intake on a SBC

Slow-V6

11-28-2010, 09:46 AM

Barely you have to cut the bracing under it.

If you have the extra money get a miniram. No clearance issues there.

Whats the differance between the stealth ram and mini ram? Is it just the size or does it flow better then a Stealth ram? Is there a different lower intake with the Mini ram?

Firebird92

11-28-2010, 12:02 PM

Looks like LT1 intake on a SBC

how bout this
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf-xt_chevy.shtml

Slow-V6

11-28-2010, 03:26 PM

These are some of the stealth rams..

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Intake-Manifolds-Fuel-Injected/?keyword=stealth+ram

Kat

11-28-2010, 05:41 PM

Whats the differance between the stealth ram and mini ram? Is it just the size or does it flow better then a Stealth ram? Is there a different lower intake with the Mini ram?

Outta the box the mini ram flows better, tho you can port the stealth ram to flow slightly better...

There is no lower intake on the miniram. It is one peice. GM used TPIS's design ( or so the tale is told) for the LT1 intake.

As for the edlebrock intake, are you planing to use Vortec style heads or something different? Reading the fine print on that intake says that it only good for the vortec/etec style heads...

Slow-V6

11-28-2010, 09:44 PM

BonzoHansen

11-28-2010, 10:11 PM

BigAls87Z28

11-29-2010, 02:00 AM

How about the 91-92 Firehawk intake setup? and is it worth it to have the stock TPI ported and get the aftermarket runners or just switch to a Mini Ram style intake? I always wonderred this especially when I had my 3rd gens.

T-Ram systems are super-hard to find, and at that point, you could spend that money on a custom sheetmetal intake.

HSR for birds, yeah you will have to cut out hood bracing. Miniran is $$$ too. You can mod an LT1 intake to work with Gen 1 heads, and at a lower cost then the Mini or HSR.

As far as an LS1 swap goes, you can easily get carried away with spending money, and LS1 stuff is still not nearly as cheap as Gen 1 stuff is.

Kat

11-29-2010, 02:11 PM

How about the 91-92 Firehawk intake setup? and is it worth it to have the stock TPI ported and get the aftermarket runners or just switch to a Mini Ram style intake? I always wonderred this especially when I had my 3rd gens.

Not worth to port anything on the TPI stuff, unless your a low buck budget build, HS student, or just bored and have to replace the intake gaskets anyways. For how cheap the HSR is, vs lower intake and runners..

The T-Ram like Scot said.. Big money and they dont flow as well as a HSR or Miniram. They make decent torque tho.