taliban behind the mask

[chevyt454]

Did anybody see this on CNN? I know there are soldiers on this board. What are thoughts on reporter Paul Refsdal living with the taliban and shooting footage of taliban firing on American Soldiers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKcuBkgUYpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ON_LG5EGY

[Slow-V6]

It makes me mad seeing them shoot at the US but it is also strange to see them joking and acting like people too. They joke around and what not like we use to do on the ship. Wasnt expecting that.. And it is also CNN so I really dont take what they put out as news as always credible.

[Frosty]

I forgot to DVR it last night :mad:

[Knipps]

I forgot to DVR it last night :mad:

Just because of this there never will be a re-run EVER.

[Frosty]

Oh wow, I didn't think of that...thank you for the emotional rescue Captain Obvious. :rolleyes: :rofl::moon::mrgreen::wink:

[Knipps]

:flower:

[Frosty]

:rofl:

[BigAls87Z28]

It makes me mad seeing them shoot at the US but it is also strange to see them joking and acting like people too. They joke around and what not like we use to do on the ship. Wasnt expecting that.. And it is also CNN so I really dont take what they put out as news as always credible.

Out of the "Big 3", CNN is the most credible by a long shot.

I also missed it.

[Slow-V6]

Out of the "Big 3", CNN is the most credible by a long shot.

I also missed it.



Being in the military you learn not to listen to CNN for news about the Wars.. What I remember is us fighting in Iraq and CNN posting videos of people protesting about the war back home. I remember when we started bombing in Afganastan back in 2001 and the next day turning on CNN and them saying that there is still diplomatic discussions going on and we wont start bombing for another week or so. You turn on the AFN news and they are already reporting that we are bombing and they never show anti war videos because they know that it effects us who are over seas fighting this war. Anti war demonstrations is the last thing I want to see on the news. Makes us feel that our nation does not have our back. So yeah CNN is not my choice when it comes to news.. The only 2 news stations we got overseas were CNN and AFN.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Makes us feel that our nation does not have our back.




i'd hate to take it there but pretty much...its the politics that sends you guys to war...not us. most of those anti war demonstrations are people that want their family back home and not dying for oil.

[Blacdout96]

i'd hate to take it there but pretty much...its the politics that sends you guys to war...not us. most of those anti war demonstrations are people that want their family back home and not dying for oil.

This

[BigAls87Z28]

i'd hate to take it there but pretty much...its the politics that sends you guys to war...not us. most of those anti war demonstrations are people that want their family back home and not dying for oil.

Thirded.

[Mark B]

i'd hate to take it there but pretty much...its the politics that sends you guys to war...not us. most of those anti war demonstrations are people that want their family back home and not dying for oil.

I believe you are wrong. Nobody likes war... But I think most people understand why it is necessary. And the fact that you would say something like that to somebody who is in the military and is fighting for our freedom (Not oil) disgusts me.

I dont understand how you guys can feel that way. How do you say war is politics? Tell me exactly who did Bush & Obama make happy by going to war? They didnt do it for votes, they did it because they knew it was necessary.

[Blacdout96]

I dont understand how you guys can feel that way. How do you say war is politics? Tell me exactly who did Bush & Obama make happy by going to war?


Haliburton and oil companies.

Afghan was the original war that should of continued, instead it bled over to Iraq. Democracy or not, it was uneccessary, not only life wise, but tax payers money wise. Remember, Somewhere, somehow in war, someone's getting rich off of it.

[V]

i watched those youtube clips, and to get my real feelings across would mean just about every other word of mine being censored by the filter on here, so ill just leave it at that.

[Slow-V6]

i'd hate to take it there but pretty much...its the politics that sends you guys to war...not us. most of those anti war demonstrations are people that want their family back home and not dying for oil.

This

Thirded.



You guys do realize that we are out there working 12 hrs or more a day, 7 days a week, in temps that are 130 degrees and even higher on the flight decks of aircraft carriers.. When you get off work in Iraq or the Persian Gulf and you go inside your barracks or berthing areas on the ship and the only thing you see on CNN is how people say we dont support this war because of this or that and that we need to pull out of Iraq and the middle east. It hurts. I can tell you that for a fact that it hurts and makes you feel like we are the bad guys and that people in the US dont have our backs because they dont believe in the war that we are involved in. Its fine to protest the war and the war efforts but for stations like CNN who broadcast the protests and then say that CNN is patriotic then they post videos of news people with Taliban soldiers shooting at US soldiers and they still claim to be patriotic!! Come on.


Every one of us signed up for the Military and new what could happen. most of our families had our backs when we joined. My 2 brothers serve in the Navy as well as I did and my family might not agree with the war but they support it and our efforts and if they were to go on CNN thats what they would say!! They know that we overseas see the news as well and my parents would not want to effect our moral in any way.. The least thing you want is for a soldier to have doubts about being over there from the stupid press and anti war demos. The thing that keeps us going is knowing that our country has our backs. Thats the way I feel but keep in mind that I have not been over there since 2005. Maybe some more recent sailors or soldiers can chime in on how they view the war and the news.

The taliban bombed the world trade center back in the early 90's as a terror act. Clinton did not do anything about it military wise. Then September 11th happened. Bush did do something and now 9 years how many acts of terror has happened on our soil? I think our war efforts are more involed then just oil. I think its trying to weed out the terrorist and keep our land and people safe.. If it takes our military to be in Iraq and the middle east to do this then I am fine with that. As long as I know my family back home is safe then thats all that matters.

[WildBillyT]

I'll belly up to this bar.

If you think that any source of media is even remotely credible you are getting a lifetime ban for being a moron. It's a cash grab, and the more people that are feeling a powerful emotion, the more viewers/readers, and the more $ they get. I cannot get into details but I know the games firsthand- not through guessing or drawing implications. You can make people feel what you want them to feel. Plus ad serving is a a big business, and hits are dollars.

Guys in the service- for every 1 douche you see on TV, there are probably 1,000 others that appreciate what you do and have your back. Please remember that, and thanks!

To the OP:

I did in fact watch some of it, and it was just like I figured it would be. They can play with children and drink tea and whatever they want, they are still misguided hate-mongers at the core to me. Show me a group of Nazis doing a waltz at a 1940's ball and I'll tell you the same.

[Slow-V6]

I'll belly up to this bar.

Guys in the service- for every 1 douche you see on TV, there are probably 1,000 others that appreciate what you do and have your back. Please remember that, and thanks!

I know but its sad that CNN after the Iraq invasion they only seemed to air the people who protest.

[WildBillyT]

I know but its sad that CNN after the Iraq invasion they only seemed to air the people who protest.

Jeff,

A GD shame for certain. But please see the first part of my post.

:wink:

[NastyEllEssWon]

a few points and remember i too, as most of us given our geographic locations, lost friends and family in the 9/11 attacks.....




1. 9/11 was used as an excuse to re-invade Iraq, clean up the mess that bush sr. made over there and set up an interim government that would be friendly and deal with ours for future political and financial gain.

2. it sucks that you are over there on false pretenses and risking your lives to line the pockets of political big wigs and fat cat tycoons.

3. you voluntarily signed up for the military and are over there on your own recognizance.

4. its an americans right to disagree with government procedures when they feel they are in the wrong. in fact its that very freedom you are fighting to protect. when you see americans protesting you should feel proud that americans are exercising those freedoms that you are sworn to uphold and protect from the tyranny of the world.

5. just because they are protesting our governments involvement in the war you are fighting does not mean that they are protesting the soldiers and arent behind them. we are behind you 100 percent, but dont feel its fair that you are fighting a battle that isnt yours. which is why we protest the war and call for your safe homecoming. dont take the protest of the politics of war personally, you are the reason we are protesting, because you are risking your life to fight a threat that isnt there.

[LTb1ow]

a few points and remember i too, as most of us given our geographic locations, lost friends and family in the 9/11 attacks.....




1. 9/11 was used as an excuse to re-invade Iraq, clean up the mess that bush sr. made over there and set up an interim government that would be friendly and deal with ours for future political and financial gain.

2. it sucks that you are over there on false pretenses and risking your lives to line the pockets of political big wigs and fat cat tycoons.

3. you voluntarily signed up for the military and are over there on your own recognizance.

4. its an americans right to disagree with government procedures when they feel they are in the wrong. in fact its that very freedom you are fighting to protect. when you see americans protesting you should feel proud that americans are exercising those freedoms that you are sworn to uphold and protect from the tyranny of the world.

5. just because they are protesting our governments involvement in the war you are fighting does not mean that they are protesting the soldiers and arent behind them. we are behind you 100 percent, but dont feel its fair that you are fighting a battle that isnt yours. which is why we protest the war and call for your safe homecoming. dont take the protest of the politics of war personally, you are the reason we are protesting, because you are risking your life to fight a threat that isnt there.

And as its your right to say that garbage, its my right to say you are an *******.


:lol:

But as a outsider, the videos offer insights to a very much one sided war that has been shown through the media. History is written by the victors and while these people may not be the nicest or whatever, they are fighting for what they believe is right.

/Advocate

**** em, anti american ********.

[DevilDougWS6]

I'm staying out of this one because everyone knows how I stand.

I will throw this out here though, the media is NOTORIOUS for stretching and even changing the truth just for ratings. No one in this world is straight (media, politicians, banks) except for the hard working American that supports a family and provides to society, everyone has an alternate agenda that they disguise with something that looks nice.

I remember shoot outs in Iraq that would result in many enemy casualties, that all of a sudden turn into "innocent civilians being killed" because when the media shows up, all the weapons have been mysteriously removed from those combatants. The media has done this on more than one occasion, and only makes unnecessary drama for everyone back home who thinks we are murderers, which is complete ********

[WildBillyT]

Everybody please keep in mind the no politics rule on here. Posts will be axed from here on out if they get that way.

[Blacdout96]

10-4 WBT

[Slow-V6]

a few points and remember i too, as most of us given our geographic locations, lost friends and family in the 9/11 attacks.....




1. 9/11 was used as an excuse to re-invade Iraq, clean up the mess that bush sr. made over there and set up an interim government that would be friendly and deal with ours for future political and financial gain.

2. it sucks that you are over there on false pretenses and risking your lives to line the pockets of political big wigs and fat cat tycoons.

3. you voluntarily signed up for the military and are over there on your own recognizance.

4. its an americans right to disagree with government procedures when they feel they are in the wrong. in fact its that very freedom you are fighting to protect. when you see americans protesting you should feel proud that americans are exercising those freedoms that you are sworn to uphold and protect from the tyranny of the world.

5. just because they are protesting our governments involvement in the war you are fighting does not mean that they are protesting the soldiers and arent behind them. we are behind you 100 percent, but dont feel its fair that you are fighting a battle that isnt yours. which is why we protest the war and call for your safe homecoming. dont take the protest of the politics of war personally, you are the reason we are protesting, because you are risking your life to fight a threat that isnt there.

1. The taliban had no connections with Iraq you are saying right? Saddam had no connections with the Taliban you are saying correct?

2. It might be true what you are saying but It was my job and I followed orders. Would Iraq just have stood there and watched us invad afganistan? Is it a good bet that a bunch of Taliban officials escaped into Iraq? Would saddam have helped the terrorist who attacked us? are these risks that you are willing to take when you are trying to protect a nation?

3. Yes I did.. and if I didnt have a kid I would still be in fighting in Iraq right now.

4. I wasnt worried about your right to free speech. I did not have that right in the Military and I am an american citizan. If my Commander told me to do something I couldnt protest it or tell him Go F himself because I dont believe in the war. I cared about saving lives. I bet that most high officials in the military after 9/11 werent worried about saving peoples rights to free speach, They were worried about protecting a country against further terror attacks. Did going into Iraq help that cause? I dont know. You tell me. Once again how many terror acts have happened on american soil since invading Iraq vrs before getting rid of Saddam?

5. We are risking our lives to fight a threat that isnt there..

I was risking my life to protect the people who live in the US against a terror act like 9/11 or any other attack on american soil. There might not be WMD's in Iraq but there was and still is terrorists in Iraq and they are a real threat. This battle is my battle because its my job and I want to help protect my family. You speak for US in the military that we think this war is not worth fighting for and is not our war to be fighting. So your protests put these thoughts in our head and excpect us to be on our top game when fighting the enemy! I was trained to shoot guns, hand to hand combat, use grenades and just about every other weapon and one point or another. What I wasnt trained is how to keep your mind focused when you have people back home like you who always end up on the stupid news saying that Our troops dont need to be over there because there is no threat and its not our war when you guys are at home going to work and going out to bars watching football games and ****.. You go out to the persian gulf and load 200 1500lb bombs onto F14's in the 140 degree weather with full flight deck gear on and watch a fully loaded F14 with 10-15 bombs launch then hours latter come back with no payload at all and then you tell me that there is no threat out there and that its not my war!! Tell the Soldiers on the ground that are taking fire that there is no threat over there and its not there Battle..

Hopefully this isnt considered a political statment. I am just telling how it is for some of us who are actually over there fighting this war and how the News effects our moral and well being..

[91chevywt]

Whether you support the war or not, the truth is Saddam Hussein committed atrocious crimes against his own people. Including murder, abduction, torture, rape of women, all in the name of ethnic cleansing. This was not hundreds of people. Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered, abducted, due to the sect of Islam they practiced. Saddam Hussein ranks among the most evil of dictators, including Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, etc.

[LTb1ow]

Whether you support the war or not, the truth is Saddam Hussein committed atrocious crimes against his own people. Including murder, abduction, torture, rape of women, all in the name of ethnic cleansing. This was not hundreds of people. Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered, abducted, due to the sect of Islam they practiced. Saddam Hussein ranks among the most evil of dictators, including Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, etc.

Which is ironic cause the US of A installed him.

[BigAls87Z28]

Whether you support the war or not, the truth is Saddam Hussein committed atrocious crimes against his own people. Including murder, abduction, torture, rape of women, all in the name of ethnic cleansing. This was not hundreds of people. Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered, abducted, due to the sect of Islam they practiced. Saddam Hussein ranks among the most evil of dictators, including Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, etc.

Matt said it and guess where he got all those weapons?
Guess where he got the military might?
Guess who trained the Taliban and other Afganistan tribes?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If we were to invade EVERY single country that did that, we could set up shop in Africa.

I think that Wikileaks gave us a little window, and possible a clue into what was going on.

Wikileaks shows that most of the friendly Arab countries want us to dismantle Iran, and I think that you could say the same for Iraq.

What is the point of winning Afganistan? What is the point of me losing ANOTHER friend in that hell hole? Do we think that if we "win", that terrorisim will just stop? We took our eye off the ball. Russia had a death-grip over that country, pouring all thier resources into that country, and thanks to a little red white and blue, they walked out of that country, tail between legs.
My feelings on pulling out of both those places still stands as it did 4 years ago. The time to leave is now. We are not going after any sort of terrorists, and we sure as hell arent going to get them by sending another hundred thousand troops into that rocky ********.
But we have torn apart that country, as well as Iraq, and we cannot leave it crumbling, even if it was crumbling before we got there.
I dont pretend that in war, the civilians will be left unscathed, and when I hear that a few died here and there, it does not effect me and my outlook of the war.

We are stuck in these two places, forever. And the longer we are there, the more that we will not be welcome.

The Taliban is different than Al Qaeda, which is different than Iraq's former government.

Saddam was a terror, no doubt. But he had to control 3 warring factions of the Muslim faith, all trying to take claim to part of this sacred country.
I have a feeling that the Saudi's wanted the US to remove Saddam as they we were pissed about 9/11. No one wants a crazy man next store, and instead of launching a muslim war in the middle east, America would be more then happy to fight that war.

[JL8Jeff]

Obviously this is a very political issue so please try not to go overboard, but it really comes down to whether you would prefer to see us sit back on our asses and wait for the people that hate us to come over here and bring it to our front yard(which we are definitely not prepared to deal with) or we be a pro-active country and try to deal with it where it currently is happening. We all know we can't win every battle but I think most of us agree it's better to fight the enemy over there(wherever that is) vs have them show up here. It has nothing to do with who is the president or who has control of the congress or senate but the overall decision to not allow them to make it to our borders to fight us. So I don't understand how anyone who has family in the military could protest it either way. It's us against them and it will never go away. I salute those who chose to represent us in the military and back them 100%. :usa:

[BigAls87Z28]

No one here is making any sort of political comments.

If you think that launching an unprevoked invasion into every country to find terrorists is the right idea, then we in fact become the terrorists, and that only INCREASES the anger that the radicals have towards us.
The further and deeper the west invades muslim lands, the further down the rabbit hole we go.
Invading country after country is NOT the way to stop terror.

[Frosty]

The further and deeper the west invades muslim lands, the further down the rabbit hole we go.
Invading country after country is NOT the way to stop terror.

I agree to a point but do you really think the wacky Muslims who hate us are just going to say "wahooo the infidels are gone, now we can all live in peace"? Not a chance. They hate us based on our beliefs..PERIOD. Yes, we absolutely made our own mess too, the whole "the enemy of my enemy is now my friend" BS got us in some serious trouble, hell we're still doing it NOW over there. The fact is we, as a country, stick our noses in too much business but we're also looked at to police the world so it's a fine line. Anyway, I'm rambling, these people over there hate us based on religion, there is no overcoming that through rhetoric and diplomacy. Would I love to see some of my friends and family to come home? Abso-freakin-lutely....however would everything suddenly become honky dory if we just up and left? We did that once when that area was fighting Russia and look how that ended up biting us in the ass....why do it again?

EDIT: I'm not saying one way or the other if we should just pack up and leave or continue the fight....we're all playing armchair military generals here...there is no right answer. It's not as cut and dry as people think.

[Blacdout96]

There is a reason I don't read newspapers, except for local news, or watch television news, and the simple answer is, it's not news, it hasent been for 30 years, and it wont be for another 30 years.

IMO the biggest mistake was allowing media to even travel to that country, let alone tell everyone our every move in the war. It prevented us from being stealthier, as far as our movement, or next engagement goes, and to always talk about civilian casualties, it did paint us as being brutal, but so is war. With those two factors, we have to walk on egg shells, slowing down our advancement, and softening our tactics.
Take a look at Russia during WWII, they lost 40,000,000 civilians during the war, yet that seems to be a silent factor when talked about, you know why? cause Russia kept tight lips on something such as that. Same thing when we were advancing in the Pacific, or in the Black Woods. Media was kept to a minimum, as it should be. I feel the media is the new form of terrorists. If they really cared about our troops, and the American people, they will keep their ****ign nose out of everything.

[Slow-V6]

No one here is making any sort of political comments.

If you think that launching an unprevoked invasion into every country to find terrorists is the right idea, then we in fact become the terrorists, and that only INCREASES the anger that the radicals have towards us.
The further and deeper the west invades muslim lands, the further down the rabbit hole we go.
Invading country after country is NOT the way to stop terror.



If that keeps them from not attacking us on american soil then whats the problem? You are against us invading to get rid of terrorists yet you are against terror attacks in the US.. The way to stop the terror attacks is to attack them werever they are and to keep them moving and transfering money and not give them the time to get together a good plan and actually being able to pull it off.. They have tried to attack us but every time they have been caught since invading Iraq.. It seems they dont have the time to train there terrorist properly and they send them out not fully trainded and they **** up and get caught. Seems they are more focused on our troops then they are the people living in the US.. All this is due to them knowing that no matter where they go they are going to be hunted down and killed.. Its one thing that they can blow up a building but its another thing that they know that the most powerfull force in the world is not going to stop untill they are all dead.. If you dont agree with this then I dont know what to tell you... Would you rather us stay and kill them or us pullout and they kill us?

[Frosty]

Any time I hear the war and media coverage I think back to Geraldo Rivera and the scumbag that he is....drawing out attack plans in the sand and giving out locations.

[BigAls87Z28]

I don't believe in a full invasion of every country that has terrorists. Invading country after country will destroy us. Small elite squads can isolate and target these cells. I don't believe that as long as we are there they wont try to attack us. Its not a religious war either but I know lots of people would like to believe it is. I don't see muslims as angry blood thirsty people. We need to expand our special ops in a time like this. We can no longer afford to send hundreds of thousands of troops into every hole. Our military is still designed to fight the big one.

[Frosty]

Its not a religious war either but I know lots of people would like to believe it is. I don't see muslims as angry blood thirsty people.

Most aren't, most are just like us aside from coming from a different culture. But the minority of that religion/culture are the ones making waves, the ones wanting to kill every non-Muslim. You can choose to bury your head in the sand and not believe that but religion is a driving force behind it. The Muslim community really needs to step up and silence and fight these extremists.

I honestly would love for us to become isolationists again like in the late 1800's/early 1900's but it's impossible. We've pissed away most of our manufacturing base and other key economic industries....plus it's really a global economy. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone...mess with us and we'll obliterate you...but that's just a pipe dream.

[BigAls87Z28]

Impossible at this point. I don't see it as a religious war but a war of ideas. They see the west as an over indulgent bunch of sinners. We take everything and leave a.disaster in our wake. This is reinforced by us heading into wars and invading countries. We topple the government and then we fail at trying to force our ideas on people that don't want us there. We cannot get over the fact that in some parts of the work Democracy does not work.

[Frosty]

I agree with the democracy not working everywhere. That's why at times I think we should just stay the hell out of everyone's business. But Al, you can't sit there with a straight face that religion plays no part. You say it's a war of ideas....their entire ideology is based on religion. Right or wrong, good or bad that's how it is.

[LTb1ow]

Crusades round 6 and a half?


America should get on the whole self reliance part, ditch oil and go to full on isolation mode. F the rest of the world, don't like us fine, have fun dealing with the disaster of the human race. Oh you need aid cause you had a huge earthquake? Shucks, maybe next time don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Frosty]

We're too wrapped up in other economies and we rely on other economies, we're intertwined.

[LTb1ow]

We're too wrapped up in other economies and we rely on other economies, we're intertwined.

Yea I know, we could take over mexico and canada though and then say peace to the rest of the world.. .. :lol:


And I think I am agreeing with you on something. Damnit! :shock:


:rofl:

[Frosty]

We usually see eye to eye on most political stuff you mook lol. It's Al you have your hissy fit with lol

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

There are way too many semi-coherent thoughts and complete sentences in this thread, this can't be NJFBOA.

[LTb1ow]

There are way too many semi-coherent thoughts and complete sentences in this thread, this can't be NJFBOA.

Finals are making me use my brain for once, tis lame I know, don't worry, regularly scheduled nonsense will return come Thursday afternoon.

[Blacdout96]

Yea I know, we could take over mexico and canada though and then say peace to the rest of the world.. .. :lol:

:rofl:
MMMM, canadian bacon tacos FTW. lol.


Most aren't, most are just like us aside from coming from a different culture. But the minority of that religion/culture are the ones making waves, the ones wanting to kill every non-Muslim. You can choose to bury your head in the sand and not believe that but religion is a driving force behind it. The Muslim community really needs to step up and silence and fight these extremists.

I honestly would love for us to become isolationists again like in the late 1800's/early 1900's but it's impossible. We've pissed away most of our manufacturing base and other key economic industries....plus it's really a global economy. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone...mess with us and we'll obliterate you...but that's just a pipe dream.

I think a small percentage of terrorists are fighting because of our innability to convert to Islam, but IMO, if they were mainly set on attacking our religion, they would of bombed churches, synagoges ( probably spelled that wrong), but instead they attacked our Government and financial sectors ( Pentagon and WTC). Now maybe they are looking to swipe our legs out from under us before they attack our religious sectors, but wouldn't they of also attacked like the Vatican and what not by now?

As for the isolation from the world, I agree to a part, we lent too much our our dependancy to overseas manufacturing, which prevents us from giving the world the big one-finger salute when **** hits the fan, but also places like China, who hold 95% of the worlds precious metals that are used in things like microchips, missile and rocket navigation, etc, to lock them out we would fall behind.
Now as superior as we might become if we were to became isolated again, there would be a snag. We could become too isolated, and looking at how North Korea turned out, there would be a point where we would have to stay globally connected. I do feel our hand should stay out of most international problems, and our money should not be used in aid unless we the people donate it. Why? we give and give, and yet **** is still shoved in our faces from other countries.

We need to stop trading with China Period, or at least put a cap on manufacturing percentage over there. They are fueling North Korea, and what kind of sway do we have in words when we owe THEM Billions in debt, and more then 60% of our basic products here are produced there.
I will say if there is one thing to model after China is how they produce. They have the majority of raw material brought in from the country they are manufacturing for ( import profit) they produce it there and then ship it back out (manufacturing and export fee) We, on the other hand dig up our own raw material and ship them out. So we miss a key point for profit making, AND we waste our own raw material here for someone else.

Or we could shift our productions to Taiwan, a DEMOCRATIC country ( not Communist) and bring the jobs back here. I know alot of people out there could get a job, but they feel they are too good to do some manufacturing job, or wouldn't pay well, yet some pay is better then none. I think we are just plain lazy, and we have the idea, but no motivation to set things right.

We could do it if we wanted to America....but Dancing with the Stars is going to be on in 45 minutes, and I'll die If I don't get to see who is casted off, so bother me afterwards. :rollseye:

[Slow-V6]

I don't believe in a full invasion of every country that has terrorists. Invading country after country will destroy us. Small elite squads can isolate and target these cells. I don't believe that as long as we are there they wont try to attack us. Its not a religious war either but I know lots of people would like to believe it is. I don't see muslims as angry blood thirsty people. We need to expand our special ops in a time like this. We can no longer afford to send hundreds of thousands of troops into every hole. Our military is still designed to fight the big one.



I am not saying to invade every country but the fact that we invaded Iraq probably has scared alot of other countries that are helping terrorists into thinking that we would invade their country as well. Now if I was the President or whatever of Turkey and I was helping out terrorists I would probably stop knowing that the US can and will invade us if they find out.

Maybe this war is the big one. Terrorist are everywere and we owe it to the families of the thousands that were lost on 9/11 and all the other terror attacks on our nation to find these groups and destroy them. You said before that us invading Iraq makes us look like terrorists. Even with all the Terror activities and Terror camps they have found and destroyed in Iraq you still say this? The terror groups say that we are terrorist for invading Afganastan and Iraq and that they are heros for attacking NYC and Washington.

I have been to Spain, Italy, France, Greece, England, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Slovakia, Austria, and Portugal as recent as 2005. They all had our backs and were Thankfull that our goverment is trying to get rid of the terrorists in the world. No one said that we are terrorists for invading Iraq but they were greatfull that we took a stand and that we also got rid of saddam. I havent been to Europe in 5yrs so I dont know what the feeling is over there but I still contact my buddies in the Navy that are over there and they say that everyone is still pretty nice to them and what not. Hell every bar we went to in most of those countries they bought us rounds of beer. Just because you see on CNN that the world is not behind us or what not doesnt mean that the Civilians in those countries are not greatfull. Thats what this war is about. Who cares what other Goverment officials say or allegedly say about us. If they dont have the balls to step up and help us when there own people want to fight with us then there is something wrong with them. I have been there in person talking with these people in bars and resturants. Not making my judgement based off of CNN or the News but off of actual people who see there countries as a easy target for these terrorists and there goverments not doing a thing about it..

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

long china quote

China can't keep up what it's doing forever - it's causing inflation in its own country and making it so the average person there can buy less and less meanwhile enriching foreign citizens. Overspending in the US is helping keep the momentum of the vicious cycle going.

The way China keeps the Yuan devalued is by buying American dollars/bonds. We keep spending too much, thus printing more of them. What the Fed did recently with its quantitative easing was to try and cause a little inflation which would bring the value of the USD down slightly which when China owns trillions worth of USD, means a big hit. It's a matter of give and take.

1995-2005 China had fixed its Yuan - USD exchange rate by printing money and increasing its currency reserve to match the 1995 USD-Yuan level. It restricts the amount of foreign assets that locals can invest in.

[WildBillyT]

China can't keep up what it's doing forever - it's causing inflation in its own country and making it so the average person there can buy less and less meanwhile enriching foreign citizens. Overspending in the US is helping keep the momentum of the vicious cycle going.

The way China keeps the Yuan devalued is by buying American dollars/bonds. We keep spending too much, thus printing more of them. What the Fed did recently with its quantitative easing was to try and cause a little inflation which would bring the value of the USD down slightly which when China owns trillions worth of USD, means a big hit. It's a matter of give and take.

1995-2005 China had fixed its Yuan - USD exchange rate by printing money and increasing its currency reserve to match the 1995 USD-Yuan level. It restricts the amount of foreign assets that locals can invest in.

Not to mention the wealth gap in China is massive. That pot is nearing a boil.

It's bad enough that they can steal money right out of people's mouths with their lack of policing knock-offs and IP theft.

[Blacdout96]

China is putting a hell of a fight right now to keep the yuan devaluated, which is making the rich richer there, and the poor starving. It will explode, and things will come unteathered, but When will ti happen? will this happen before America is forced into a hole it won't be able to dig out for generations to come?

Overspending is America's MO right now, and we don't know how to learn from it, except for the people on the streets without even a pot to piss in. When I shop, I shop anti-China. If I have to buy store brand, or spend more just to avoid China, I have no problem doing that. I also don't shop at Wal-Mart since they have major contracts with China. Rarely do I buy, unless it's something no one else has. I also have my wife help me pick out which brands are from Taiwan. I don't do it because she is from Taiwan, I do it because I support her country, and what they have to endure on a political, and national state from China, and yet have prevailed so well, while the daily threat from China looms over every day.

[BigAls87Z28]

We usually see eye to eye on most political stuff you mook lol. It's Al you have your hissy fit with lol

Matt likes to pick on me for fun. When you talk to him, he is very much like me, split down the middle. He says stuff that just gets on people's nerves. Hard to imagine...

MMMM, canadian bacon tacos FTW. lol.




I think a small percentage of terrorists are fighting because of our innability to convert to Islam, but IMO, if they were mainly set on attacking our religion, they would of bombed churches, synagoges ( probably spelled that wrong), but instead they attacked our Government and financial sectors ( Pentagon and WTC). Now maybe they are looking to swipe our legs out from under us before they attack our religious sectors, but wouldn't they of also attacked like the Vatican and what not by now?

They attacked our Ideas, what we stand for. They attack our way of life. if you want to make it about religion, then it would be materialisim. They also dont like us backing a small little country that we planted in the middle east either...

As for the isolation from the world, I agree to a part, we lent too much our our dependancy to overseas manufacturing, which prevents us from giving the world the big one-finger salute when **** hits the fan, but also places like China, who hold 95% of the worlds precious metals that are used in things like microchips, missile and rocket navigation, etc, to lock them out we would fall behind.


Its obvious that we cannot be isolated from the world, as we depend on it as much as it depends on us. We have become too important to ourselves, and why we left blue collar jobs behind for more money.
This country is in rough shape, and we have torn at the strongest pillars that have gotten this country through the toughest times.
Industry and Education are now on the bottom rung, as we pour nearly 1 trillion dollars into military spending EVERY year. For what? For putting a 1/4 million 18-25 year olds in harms way. Yes, they signed up for it, and they are there to protect us, but I dont see going into Iraq as protection. We had Iraq wrapped up, having total control over everything that goes in and out of that hell hole.
Surrounded by its enemies on 3 sides, and the UN flying and driving all over that sandbox, there was no way anything was getting done.

[LTb1ow]

Matt likes to pick on me for fun. When you talk to him, he is very much like me, split down the middle. He says stuff that just gets on people's nerves. Hard to imagine...



They attacked our Ideas, what we stand for. They attack our way of life. if you want to make it about religion, then it would be materialisim. They also dont like us backing a small little country that we planted in the middle east either...




Its obvious that we cannot be isolated from the world, as we depend on it as much as it depends on us. We have become too important to ourselves, and why we left blue collar jobs behind for more money.
This country is in rough shape, and we have torn at the strongest pillars that have gotten this country through the toughest times.
Industry and Education are now on the bottom rung, as we pour nearly 1 trillion dollars into military spending EVERY year. For what? For putting a 1/4 million 18-25 year olds in harms way. Yes, they signed up for it, and they are there to protect us, but I dont see going into Iraq as protection. We had Iraq wrapped up, having total control over everything that goes in and out of that hell hole.
Surrounded by its enemies on 3 sides, and the UN flying and driving all over that sandbox, there was no way anything was getting done.

Peace sells, but whose buying.

And, as far as it being a war over material etc... idk man, you need to open your eyes, extremists HATE us for what we as Americans are. Lazy, free to do whatever, practice whatever religion, and other wise "insult" the ways of Islam. So while to us, they may have attached our ideas of being free from harm of hatred etc... sure, but they still will continue to despise and loath Americans for what we are.

And what do you mean I pick on you? You be straight trippin.

Lay off the kool aid guy. :lol:

As far as military budget, as much as I begrudgingly will say, there is more sense in preparing for a large scale economic war versus a land war involving more than three large armies. Cold war era style war is dead.. a few idiots with an RPG can wreck havoc on a slower moving heavy frontal army.

But, I like the peace and comfort of having the worlds best military so I feel no pain at paying to stay that way. And I think as said world superpower, we need to take the gloves off and stop giving a F about what countries think about us. Don't like us? Tough. Stay out of our way.

/angry simpleton.

[BigAls87Z28]

I think that 850 billion dollars a year is excessive, especially when we have everyone talking about reducing spending, and up in arms about a 700 billion dollar stimulius that was designed to stop the out of control spiral.

250 billion could be shaved from budget, and put towards education, roads, industry, electrical grid, anything else that is in dire need of support.

Open my eyes? You are saying exactly the same thing I am. They hate us for how we live, our life, and what we want. They hate the way we do things, and they attack that. They dont hate our religion, they just hate us. They dont like the west for a host of reasons. We support and promote everything they stand against.

[LTb1ow]

I think that 850 billion dollars a year is excessive, especially when we have everyone talking about reducing spending, and up in arms about a 700 billion dollar stimulius that was designed to stop the out of control spiral.

250 billion could be shaved from budget, and put towards education, roads, industry, electrical grid, anything else that is in dire need of support.

Open my eyes? You are saying exactly the same thing I am. They hate us for how we live, our life, and what we want. They hate the way we do things, and they attack that. They dont hate our religion, they just hate us. They dont like the west for a host of reasons. We support and promote everything they stand against.

"pal drinks strawberry coolatas not kool aid" - Underground decalz

:rofl: