Advice needed on winter driving and different types of cars.

[ws6 jim]

I was prompted to question you guys after being stuck in the snow yesterday for an hour and finally being pushed out by my brother in law's Jeep uphill and on a sheet of ice. It was impressive what the Liberty could do and pathetic how little the GTA could do. It got me thinking.I've only had fbodies since I started driving and always worked close until the last year.
With all this snow and terrible vehicles to drive in what would you guys do.

My new Camaro stays in, my 99 may be sold to make some options possible, and my 91 is barely passable in any sort of snow as it sits.

1. Suck it up and just keep using sick days as needed.

2. Invest in a set of dedicated winter tires and 15' wheels for the GTA

3. Buy an economical fwd sedan

4. Buy a used awd sedan Subaru, Speed 6, G35x etc-are these that great in snow or are they marginally better than a regular fwd sedan.

5. Just get a 4x4 Jeep Cherokee Sport or Blazer to deal with any weather condition mother nature can throw at us.

Thanks in advance for the input and hope it may help others who may be in the same situation.

[Jared1970Chevelle]

get a nice older 4wd suburban.... cheap... great in snow ( i havent put mine into 4wd yet) lol

[deadtrend1]

I'd choose #5

[ws6 jim]

Anything has to be better than what I experienced yesterday my only thing against going straight to a 4x4 is mpg and aren't parts and labor on anything that breaks a lot more $$$. I'm still doing research on everything too.

[//<86TA>\\]

you need a truck Jim... f-bodys and snow just dont work well, but snow tires will help.

[Vinnie Madrox]

I have a 90 accord for every day driving. Good in the snow (i do need new tires tho) and great on gas

[NastyEllEssWon]

cheap economical fwd car for daily use :nod:

[Blackbirdws6]

Dedicated winter tire/wheel setup if you don't mind the car driving through the bad weather/roads.

Otherwise get a cheap/reliable fwd car.

[BonzoHansen]

unless you need a truck, an economical FWD will do just fine in this area. it's not like we live in the hinterlands. my civic with 4 snow tires got me through all winter weather. I went to Vermont like every other winter weekend to ski in the car and it was great.

[edpontiac91]

My son got stuck in our DRIVEWAY with his G8 GT. The summer tires were just spinning even with the high tech traction control. I have had a 2001 Neon since I bought it in 2004 and even with Uniroyal Tiger Paw all season 15" radials, it has gone threw every snow we ever had in this area with no problems and gets 32 mpg on the hwy. If you buy a cheap FWD coupe or sedan just for the winter, you can always sell in the Spring for what you paid for it. :nod:

[BonzoHansen]

Honestly, I have zero sympathy for anyone who lives in NJ and runs a DD with summer tires in the winter. It's not like winter surprises us. It gets cold, it snows and sleets. Either spring for snow tires or at least compromise with all seasons. I used to run summer pirellis until it got cold, say 40* or less in the day, so maybe mid December. Summer tires can act very skittish even on cold dry pavement, their compounding is not equipped to handle cold. Been there, done that, never again.

Snow tires really give you a great excuse to buy really nice summer wheels and use the OE wheels for snow tires. :)

[ws6 jim]

Yeah I have no real need for a truck, but I sure was impressed with what his little V6 Jeep Liberty did yesterday. It is a thought, but the upkeep and replacement parts discourage me. My GTA has all season Yokohamas I put on it last season on the 16x8 wheels, but I don't know how much better the car could do with say blizzaks and 15x7 wheels. Can anyone share if they've gone this route.

As for the fwd I don't think I'd be comfortable in too many smaller cars so I would be leaning towards an intermediate and I don't want bottom of the barrel either. Something not too new and something not duct taped together either. It would still most likely be better than what I've been driving mpg wise.

For an awd sedan I'm not sure how much better they are than a fwd I've never driven either in bad weather. Can anyone compare for me. There are a few I like, but are more expensive and would have more maintenance I'd assume.

[maroman88]

i bought a blazer... why drive the nice cars when the roads are covered in salt and its crappy out... not to mention how bad drivers become in any weather

[Blackbirdws6]

Yeah I have no real need for a truck, but I sure was impressed with what his little V6 Jeep Liberty did yesterday. It is a thought, but the upkeep and replacement parts discourage me. My GTA has all season Yokohamas I put on it last season on the 16x8 wheels, but I don't know how much better the car could do with say blizzaks and 15x7 wheels. Can anyone share if they've gone this route.

As for the fwd I don't think I'd be comfortable in too many smaller cars so I would be leaning towards an intermediate and I don't want bottom of the barrel either. Something not too new and something not duct taped together either. It would still most likely be better than what I've been driving mpg wise.

For an awd sedan I'm not sure how much better they are than a fwd I've never driven either in bad weather. Can anyone compare for me. There are a few I like, but are more expensive and would have more maintenance I'd assume.

A proper set of winter/snow tires will give you a whole new respect for their design over all season tires. Buddy has a set on his G8 GXP W/ 400+ rwhp and he gets around just fine with the snow. Granted he can easily overwhelm the tires if he wanted but the safety factor is there. This will be cheaper than buying a used econocar or truck w/ 4wd since a new car means insurance payments, upkeep etc. You can do all the math to figure it out including fuel mileage and everything else.

[LS1Hawk]

Go with winter tires/wheels. It's the cheapest option. When my dad had his '06 GTO he had snow tires for them and never had any problems in the snow. Just make sure to get all four.

[Andrew R]

I'd get another affordable, reliable vehicle you can DD -best thing I ever did.

FWIW I have a 05 Subaru Legacy and it's great.

[V]

i was gonna get an EVO for the awd benefits but never got around to it and now my friend has one and says it doesnt do to well in the snow. Seems the awd subies are where its at, for awd cars.

i did the beater 4x4 thing(2 actually and both are currently in-op) and also the economical fwd nice car. My Cruze has been doing fine in the snow this winter so far.

up here at least, i wouldn't daily drive my V even with snow tires, they use real salt up here and a lot of it. Cleaning gets to be a real pain.

[JL8Jeff]

Would you be selling the GTA if you were going to get another vehicle for winter driving? If so, that helps offset the costs of another vehicle. If not, you may want to consider snow tires/wheels for the winter. I drove my supercharged 93 Z28 as a daily driver and the 00 SS with regular tires. Neither did well in the snow so I would stay home. But these last 2 winters are pretty extreme and that's why I got the Z71. If you do get something else, check the brake lines closely! :mrgreen:

[88WS-6]

My brother has an '08 AWD Impreza WRX with snow tires and he hasn't had any problems this winter. Last year he drove it all winter with the summer tires and he said it was a PITA. its an m6 BTW

~Matt

[BullittSVT]

Subaru - The King of AWD

My friend has a worked Audi S4 with a full set of winter tires and he gets around everywhere.. that is, where ground clearance is available. AWD cars are expensive and don't get good gas mileage, especially hurts the wallet with gas over 3$/gallon.

The econobox fwd car will do well on most surfaces as i've learned in an older Altima compared to my Camaro. Then again, the benefits of the 4x4 and ground clearance will help alot. We've got a month to go in the snow season anyway..

[88WS-6]

We are supposed to get another storm Tuesday so you'd better act fast!

~Matt

[Squirrel]

you can pick up a 90's cherokee for really cheap, with the right tires it can go anywhere

[LS1ow]

EVOs really arent all there cracked up to be in the snow i dont think. my friends got a worked even and granted he has a lot more power and breaks loose but it was so bad in the snow. i got a bone stock 99 audi a4 with all season tires on it and the thing is a animal in the snow! ive driven it threw unplowed parking lots no problem. audi awd is a very very good system

[Andrew R]

you can pick up a 90's cherokee for really cheap, with the right tires it can go anywhere

Hell yeah!

Look for the slant 6 those engines are impossible to kill -many of my friends use those jeeps to tow as well.

[BullittSVT]

Yeah, those old 4.0s are amazing engines. My brother brags about it with his Wrangler

[NastyEllEssWon]

the ion trucks through every snow ive thrown at it...and its seen a lot of snow since 07 :nod:

[BurninrubberGT]

Honestly, I have zero sympathy for anyone who lives in NJ and runs a DD with summer tires in the winter. It's not like winter surprises us. It gets cold, it snows and sleets. Either spring for snow tires or at least compromise with all seasons. I used to run summer pirellis until it got cold, say 40* or less in the day, so maybe mid December. Summer tires can act very skittish even on cold dry pavement, their compounding is not equipped to handle cold. Been there, done that, never again.

Snow tires really give you a great excuse to buy really nice summer wheels and use the OE wheels for snow tires. :)

lol, i like looking at tire rack comments for summer only's and seeing people complain and giving them 1 star because they suck in the snow :rofl:


dedicated snow tires obviously wont be better than a 4x4/awd, but its a hell of a lot better then any other option

[maroman88]

for a fwd car.... gm's w-body's are the king of gettin around in the snow! the first winter i had a license i drove my moms 92 lumina... unstopable! as well as both of her grand prixs

[Njgunslinger]

Subaru Legacy, inexpensive, GREAT in the SNOW!

[WiMiMc]

hopefully i'll be getting an 80s k5 soon, watch, as soon as i get it, no more snow. watch.

so far i've been sucking it up and going out in the SS. i have the extreme performance summer tires in the back, and the kumhos in the front (i'll be replacing them soon)

i've just been driving smart and easy where i need to be, and avoiding certain roads.

[NastyEllEssWon]

hopefully i'll be getting an 80s k5 soon, watch, as soon as i get it, no more snow. watch.

so far i've been sucking it up and going out in the SS. i have the extreme performance summer tires in the back, and the kumhos in the front (i'll be replacing them soon)

i've just been driving smart and easy where i need to be, and avoiding certain roads.



driving smart with extreme summer performance tires in the snow is an oxymoron :nod:

[01SS]

Problem with getting the second car is if you dont have a lot of money the insurance on a second car can still be killer. I had taken the camaro off the rd. and put a dodge pickup on. I priced collector car ins. on the camaro so i could drive it again best price i got was 300 a year to have a 1000 mile limit while not being able to leave a 150 mile radius which sucks. I said screw it im selling the truck and putting the camaro back on the road. I hate the truck or driving pretty much anything but my camaro. As for summer/winter tires hell the price of these tires and a second set of rims can get pricey. The cheapest tires ive found so far for the 17" rims were 150 a pop. And i dont think they are even all seasons.

[HeadlessNorseman]

all you need is all season tires with good tread. anything more is overkill, any more than that and its good enough reason not to drive at all.

[Andrew R]

hopefully i'll be getting an 80s k5 soon, watch, as soon as i get it, no more snow. watch.

so far i've been sucking it up and going out in the SS. i have the extreme performance summer tires in the back, and the kumhos in the front (i'll be replacing them soon)

i've just been driving smart and easy where i need to be, and avoiding certain roads.

I have a beater 89 GMC K1500 -love it. Tows good -just EATS fuel.

[BonzoHansen]

I priced collector car ins. on the camaro so i could drive it again best price i got was 300 a year to have a 1000 mile limit while not being able to leave a 150 mile radius which sucks.I find that shocking. What companies did you call?

As for summer/winter tires hell the price of these tires and a second set of rims can get pricey. The cheapest tires ive found so far for the 17" rims were 150 a pop. And i dont think they are even all seasons.Look at it this way, the used of dedicated snows makes your other tires last longer, and your rims stay nicer longer. And you could put 16" wheels & snows on it unless you've changed brakes or something. you want to run narrower snows if you can anyway.

[bandit88]

my vote is a FWD car with snow tires.... beetle is not having any trouble this winter :)

[Tru2Chevy]

I voted for #2 or #5. Dedicated snow tires make a world of difference on an F-Body - the only time you will run into an issue if you go that route is if you are trying to drive through deep unplowed roads. The nose will just try to plow and that won't last too long.

Obviously I think you can't go wrong with a mid-90s cherokee. They can be found pretty cheap, parts are cheap and available anywhere, and you can't kill the 4.0 / A4 combo as long as you keep up with fluid changes.

- Justin

[Squirrel]

Obviously I think you can't go wrong with a mid-90s cherokee. They can be found pretty cheap, parts are cheap and available anywhere, and you can't kill the 4.0 / A4 combo as long as you keep up with fluid changes.

- Justin

yup... mine ran low 16's all day too
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs547.ash1/31985_566147534100_45901798_32825300_3976534_n.jpg

[xrelapse13]

either snow tires or a 4x4 jeep. My mom has a new g25x sedan and my T/A with blizzaks drives circles around that thing in the snow. She got stuck on our street when it wasn't really plowed recently and I got past with no issues. Our cars are not bad at all in the snow with the right tires. My car with blizzaks out does my dad's mazda 6s with good all seasons and my mom's awd g25x like stated before with w/e the dealer put on there. Also have no TCS and a good amount of power.

[WiMiMc]

driving smart with extreme summer performance tires in the snow is an oxymoron :nod:

:wink:

[ws6 jim]

for a fwd car.... gm's w-body's are the king of gettin around in the snow! the first winter i had a license i drove my moms 92 lumina... unstopable! as well as both of her grand prixs

Good to know I do like some of the w-bodies and I think the 3.8 is a versatile motor for that kind of car.

all you need is all season tires with good tread. anything more is overkill, any more than that and its good enough reason not to drive at all.

I have newer all seasons on the 91 and it still isn't that great and it can be a white knuckle drive at times.

I voted for #2 or #5. Dedicated snow tires make a world of difference on an F-Body - the only time you will run into an issue if you go that route is if you are trying to drive through deep unplowed roads. The nose will just try to plow and that won't last too long.

Obviously I think you can't go wrong with a mid-90s cherokee. They can be found pretty cheap, parts are cheap and available anywhere, and you can't kill the 4.0 / A4 combo as long as you keep up with fluid changes.

- Justin

Thats what I wasn't sure of Justin with winter tires being so much better of an upgrade over all seasons on the same car.

I think if I do go 4x4 I would lean towards a cherokee sport, if I go FWD it would be a GM w-body. I've been researching some AWD cars and don't like what I've been reading as far as being expensive and not having the best efficiency for what they are.

In the meantime I'm just going to call tirerack and talk to them about snow tires for the 91.

If I sell the 99 I'm going to keep my eyes open and just get the best vehicle I can get when the time is right.

Just trying to be sensible about the whole situation. I realize another car would add to the insurance and maintenance budget as well as parking.

[BonzoHansen]

all season tires cannot hold a candle to snow tires in winter weather. AS tires are by design a compromise that do nothing extremely well.

[Tru2Chevy]

all season tires cannot hold a candle to snow tires in winter weather. AS tires are by design a compromise that do nothing extremely well.

Exactly.


And Jim, if you do decide to go the Jeep route, feel free to bounce any questions off me.

- Justin

[NastyEllEssWon]

the l bodies are pretty good in the snow. id lean more towards a corsica than a beretta though, since youre a taller guy, they have a tad more room in the front. the six bangers are beasts in snow and can be found REALLY cheap :nod:

[01SS]

I find that shocking. What companies did you call?.

It was a couple of months ago but i think it was hagerty ins. They wouldnt allow less than 15000 dollar value on a show car and i knocked all the settings down to get lowest possible price. I cant remember what the difference was if i increased the allowed mileage. Now that im thinking about it what are the lowest prices anyone has found on summer and winter tires?

[BullittSVT]

All seasons are garbage for the winter.. doesn't so much matter how good they are.

[79T/A]

I've got some perspective on this one, since I did the F Body in the snow thing through college and now have my choice of three other vehicles now that I'm an "adult." I commute about 86 miles a day (Round trip) from Sussex County to Essex County and back on Route 23 (This means hills in both directions).

My daily driver is a 2002 VW Jetta wagon. Very dependable little FWD car. I keep changing the oil and it keeps getting me to work. Drove it to work in the snow a few weeks ago and managed not to get stuck. I did have a few moments of panic, not because the car slid or skidded at all but because I was concerned that even with newer tires I wouldn't make it up some of the inclines (Like Hamburg Mountain). But I made it. Last week, during the big snow, I watched a coworker with a small FWD car (I believe a Matrix) try desperately to get home and not even make it a block from work.

My current toy is a 2001 Jeep Wrangler on 35" tires. Back when it was bone stock, that thing tracked straight and true through any snow. Like stated above, the 4.0 is a stump puller and is hard to kill. Very dependable. Once I went to bigger, more aggressive tires, it wasn't as straight or true anymore and even in 4WD High, the light back end would get a little skittish on the slick stuff.

get a nice older 4wd suburban.... cheap... great in snow ( i havent put mine into 4wd yet) lol

The family car is a 2000 GMC Yukon XL (3/4 Ton). This sucker is an absolute tank. Weighs in at over 7k pounds. I've yet to be able to make it slide or skid in the snow. Goes wherever I point it, and sometimes I don't even need to engage 4WD. Downside is that the 6.0 Vortec absolutely guzzles gas. But when I know the heavy stuff is coming, I won't hesitate to take it to work. Hands down, best vehicle I've ever owned in the snow.

Bottom line: If your daily commute isn't all that far, and you have the ability to take the day off when the really heavy snow comes down (My chosen profession makes me exempt from a state of emergency), you'll probably be fine with a good, dependable FWD vehicle. If you don't really have a need for a full-sized 4x4 other than transportation, it's probably not worth it. Middle of the road: The Cherokee suggested above. Plentiful in numbers, dependable engine, and the gas mileage isn't horrible as long as you don't start adding giant tires and stuff like some of us can't help doing.

[12secondv6]

Dedicated snow tires are good..... but putting them on an f body just doesn't make sense to me.

F body's suck in rain and snow.... so don't drive them in it.

I've had multiple 4wd Mercedes and they are great in the snow but I am always concerned about the carelsss drivers out there so this round I got a RWD one..... and I got a 2001 Ford Explorer.

It's a beast in the snow.... we see 2 ft of snow and I don't plow/ snow blow the driveway in the morning... I just put it in 4 wheel high and gun it and it has yet to let me down. The best part is.... if something happens because of a careless driver I won't worry as much because it is old.

So... I went with #5

[T69SS]

Finances permitting, buy a 4x4 and never think twice about road conditions again. Not to mention the extra fun you can have off road

[CHRIS67]

Finances permitting, buy a 4x4 and never think twice about road conditions again. Not to mention the extra fun you can have off road

......and helping to pull stuck FWD cars out of the snow. :wink:

[SilverDropTop]

#5. Get yourself a beater truck that will get you from a to b in the snow. The jeeps like everyone mentioned are hard to beat as well as an 80's blazer or suburban. You can even find 90's blazers pretty cheap.

[HeadlessNorseman]

If you don't really have a need for a full-sized 4x4 other than transportation, it's probably not worth it. Middle of the road: The Cherokee suggested above. Plentiful in numbers, dependable engine, and the gas mileage isn't horrible as long as you don't start adding giant tires and stuff like some of us can't help doing.

This is pretty much the /thread

[TAdan]

My T/A sucked in the snow. It is finally retired and I got a Mustang GT for a daily driver. Traction control and some good all-season tires and it has been O.K.

That being said there is no comparison to my wife's Corolla, you can actually drive it places when there is snow on the ground.

I'd opt for a cheap winter beater, FWD sedan or something.

[BigAls87Z28]

Pish posh....RWD is fantastic in the snow!

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/647/medium/IMG_0365-Edit.jpg