2012 Camaro won't be a Z28

[NJ346]

Just saw something pop across the internet, I'm sure Al will chime in with more info, but for now, this is what I have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7eD0_dlXYM&feature=player_embedded

Specs from Camaro5.com
2012 CAMARO ZL1
6.2L Supercharged V8 LSA
6 Speed Manual Transmission
Heavy Duty Driveline
Magnetic Ride Control
Brembo Brakes
Electric Power Steering
Track Ready Cooling Systems
Aggressive bodywork, including vented hood, Transformers 3 style bumper, special wheels
New steering wheel and interior trim with nice silver accents throughout

[maroman88]

just saw a video... gave a web address of chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1, however that comes back page not found... so i duno

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/chicago-2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-100307/

Someone at Chevy is listening. Thank you

[WildBillyT]

Bummer about the name I guess. But nice to see something better than the SS out there.

[sweetbmxrider]

That thing is going to be a beasttttttttt

[Tru2Chevy]

Bummer about the name I guess. But nice to see something better than the SS out there.

Would you have preferred it be the Z28, or something else entirely?

I am glad that they didn't end up choosing Z28 for this setup, doesn't fit at all for the car. ZL1 probably isn't the best fit either though.

- Justin

[LS1Hawk]

Whatever the name, you're going to need deeeeep pockets for this car.

[WildBillyT]

Would you have preferred it be the Z28, or something else entirely?

I am glad that they didn't end up choosing Z28 for this setup, doesn't fit at all for the car. ZL1 probably isn't the best fit either though.

- Justin

Could be Z28. I'd have been cool with that.

Granted, the original ZL1 was a FAIL back in the day, but the RPO was associated with something that was really out there for the time.

Honestly, I'd rather see a ZL1 turbodiesel than this thing. This is like a mini-ZR1-partial-CTS-V deal. To me ZL1 will always be the cutting edge of what GM is capable of- not just a normal powerplant shoved in a pretty normal car.

[V]

should have made it an IROC-Z, lol

[BigAls87Z28]

Could be Z28. I'd have been cool with that.

Granted, the original ZL1 was a FAIL back in the day, but the RPO was associated with something that was really out there for the time.

Honestly, I'd rather see a ZL1 turbodiesel than this thing. This is like a mini-ZR1-partial-CTS-V deal. To me ZL1 will always be the cutting edge of what GM is capable of- not just a normal powerplant shoved in a regular car.

ZL1 diesel? I think this covers the cutting edge stuff.

[WildBillyT]

ZL1 diesel? I think this covers the cutting edge stuff.

How so? There's nothing cutting edge about the powerplant, in the sense that it's already available and nothing new out of GM. Or is it very different than the CTS-V/ZR1 stuff? I'm sure you know more about it than I.

[V]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/random/2011irocz.jpg

[LTb1ow]

Is it still gonna weigh in at blue whale status?

[BigAls87Z28]

No numbers...but talk is 4100lbs.

[LTb1ow]

No numbers...but talk is 4100lbs.
http://www.theepicnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/50smh1.gif

[BigAls87Z28]

How so? There's nothing cutting edge about the powerplant, in the sense that it's already available and nothing new out of GM. Or is it very different than the CTS-V/ZR1 stuff? I'm sure you know more about it than I.

1) what would a diesel Camaro offer that would be high tech?

2) the ZL1 was about advanced technology? What, aluminum engine blocks?

This ZL1 has magnetic shocks, dual mode exhaust, as well as electric power steering to adapt steering input depending on driving mode.
While the LSA has been around for a while, its still a high-tech engine with one of the most efficient superchargers ever made.

[maroman88]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/random/2011irocz.jpg

hell muthafookin yes!

[redsoxsstink]

im still gonna find myself calling it a z/28

[WildBillyT]

1) what would a diesel Camaro offer that would be high tech?

2) the ZL1 was about advanced technology? What, aluminum engine blocks?

This ZL1 has magnetic shocks, dual mode exhaust, as well as electric power steering to adapt steering input depending on driving mode.
While the LSA has been around for a while, its still a high-tech engine with one of the most efficient superchargers ever made.

1) It would certainly be different and factory hipo diesel cars are not GM's forte at this point. Not saying that diesel is 100% the way to go, but it would be a different offering than what they currently have. This is starting to show up the the old iron circles, too. Everybody and their brother does an LS swap into something these days. As an example, the diesel Nova and Chevelle are really turning heads, with others following.

2) Uh, yes? Aluminum blocks were certianly around but not at that level and were significantly more rare. ****, aluminum HEADS were considered "out there", and that's proven by the $$ that L89 cars pull. There's a lot of engineering that went into that project that did not cross over into others. For the time it was very exotic.

Mag shocks have been done (I think back in C5 vettes?) dual mode exhaust has been done, as has electric power steering. Nothing new there.

I dunno, I just think a ZL1 should have a real "WOW" factor. Like the original, or the 572 4th gen concept. This strikes me as a CTS-V on the Camaro chassis (and that's not to hate on the CTS-V or the LSA which I would cut my arm off for), or alternatively it's a factory supercharged Camaro much like some of the tuners are already offering. I don't know what this car needs but it's lacking something to really make it pop. The ZR1 reeks of awesomeness, the CTS-V is a businessman's rocket ship, the diesel pickups have queen mary towing capacity, etc etc. Call it ZL1 if you want, just make it more wild. Considering the environment around the Camaro right now, this thing is downright mediocre.

[qwikz28]

What the heck happened to the new interior for 2012? All I see is a new steering wheel

[Frosty]

I think it should have been called a Sport Coupe or Berlinetta :rofl:

[coolmanvette75]

i like it. i think they could have done a little bettet with the wheels and the interior, but oh well. and i dont care whats its called. all i care is that they get it into the showroom so it can smoke some mustangs

[T69SS]

Nice power numbers, but doesnt do much for me styling wise...

[NastyEllEssWon]

holy hell that thing is ugly, what the hell happened to the hood they were showing all over the concepts and what not. that thing screams mustang ripoff. still cant even get functional rear brake vents??


as for the name...couldnt of cared less either. z28 is more recognizable than zl1...told the news to my gf and she was like ''what the hells a ZL1''. seems like something they might have to end up renaming (ala ford 500/taurus). i dont like the giant wheels either. if it really is a zl1 i wanna see at least having the option to buy a stripper. that would be really cool.

[Frosty]

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

[LTb1ow]

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

I want an LSA in a 4th gen, hell, I would take it in a 3rd gen even.

Ballin wheels = no want.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?




id like to see it on a six banger body so you can have the baddest of the bad without the ugliest of the ugs with the big black ground effects and fog lights and big willie's wheels.

how about this....six cylinder body, probably gonna have to be that hood, 17/18'' plain jane wheels. i just dont like all the jazz that the camaro has going on.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.

[r0nin89]

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.


AM radio nly :mrgreen:

Power seats standard is ridiculous IMO. I completely agree with Anti Rice Guy.

It is nice to see they've incorporated alot of supporting characteristics instead of just dropping in a LSA.

[Frosty]

Yes and continued i.e. sound deadening. After driving work trucks like that I can't stand fancy vehicles. I'd be perfectly happy with a stripped down no-frills vehicle. Radio is questionable, but I can easily do without heat/ac/power windows, seats, locks.

...and that would sell about 4 units lol

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

...and that would sell about 4 units lol

You asked us what we would want to get rid of, not what would sell :wink:

[1QWIKBIRD]

Its typical GM, they dove head first into the parts bin and took the CTS-V stuff and smashed it into the Camaro, then took the nose (lower fog lamp areas look like the V's headlight area upside down?) of the V and the hood of the Vette and smashed them on to the nose of the Camaro. Sure its got incredible power, and a legendary name, and is the most technologically advanced Camaro ever produced but it still isn't a good looking car. It still rolls on hideously large wheels. It still weighs far too much (4100lbs? are you kidding? Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser wagons didn't weigh that much!!!) and I bet by the time it hits the dealer lots it will cost over $50k.

I got an idea. GM should take the LS7 (in full trim, not some detuned version) and stuff it into the fenderwells. Include a true dry sump (not the bastardized thing on the vette's). Lower the car on a true performance suspension, include the trick shocks and other suspension improvements, drop the wheel size down to 18" (make them lightweight as well) with as much brake as you can package. Just put a set of factory headers and a good exhaust on the damn thing (not some 2 tone electric gizmo). Full carbon fiber hood and deck lid. Seat upgrade and steering wheel upgrade.

Get the car to weigh something around 3600-3800lbs by losing the super charger/intercooler, hideous large wheels and corresponding brakes (if the car doesn't weigh so much you won't need as much brake), two tone exhaust and associated wiring and controls, and by doing the carbon hood and decklid. If other things need to be sacrificed, then power seats go bye-bye, followed by excessive sound deadening.

Offer from the factory:
A rear seat delete option with a harness bar.
Functional brake ducting front and rear.
A/C delete.

Do not offer as an option under any circumstances:
Convertible
Moon/Sun Roof
Automatic transmission (paddle shift or not)

If they really are going for on-track performance, that's what they should build or something along those lines.

If you want uber comfort with world class performance, go by a V. If you want world class super car performance, go get the Vette of your choice. If you want a bad ass Camaro, this is your car.

And sell it out the door for no more than $42K with a full tank of gas. Then maybe you could call it a ZL1, but I would still prefer to call it a Z28.

[Frosty]

You asked us what we would want to get rid of, not what would sell :wink:

LOL, true. You got me there. :D

[BigAls87Z28]

1) It would certainly be different and factory hipo diesel cars are not GM's forte at this point. Not saying that diesel is 100% the way to go, but it would be a different offering than what they currently have. This is starting to show up the the old iron circles, too. Everybody and their brother does an LS swap into something these days. As an example, the diesel Nova and Chevelle are really turning heads, with others following.

2) Uh, yes? Aluminum blocks were certianly around but not at that level and were significantly more rare. ****, aluminum HEADS were considered "out there", and that's proven by the $$ that L89 cars pull. There's a lot of engineering that went into that project that did not cross over into others. For the time it was very exotic.

Mag shocks have been done (I think back in C5 vettes?) dual mode exhaust has been done, as has electric power steering. Nothing new there.

I dunno, I just think a ZL1 should have a real "WOW" factor. Like the original, or the 572 4th gen concept. This strikes me as a CTS-V on the Camaro chassis (and that's not to hate on the CTS-V or the LSA which I would cut my arm off for), or alternatively it's a factory supercharged Camaro much like some of the tuners are already offering. I don't know what this car needs but it's lacking something to really make it pop. The ZR1 reeks of awesomeness, the CTS-V is a businessman's rocket ship, the diesel pickups have queen mary towing capacity, etc etc. Call it ZL1 if you want, just make it more wild. Considering the environment around the Camaro right now, this thing is downright mediocre.

Then you are way more jaded then even the oldest car journo...

ZL1 packs a lot of stuff, way more then the former ZL1 did. All it had was an engine that cost as much as the whole car did. The rest of the car was nothing. What technology did the rest of it have? ****, it didnt have AC, radio, power seats, windows...were front disk brakes even stardard on a $8,300 car?



What the heck happened to the new interior for 2012? All I see is a new steering wheel

Dash is altered a bit, this one has Alcantara coverings.

holy hell that thing is ugly, what the hell happened to the hood they were showing all over the concepts and what not. that thing screams mustang ripoff. still cant even get functional rear brake vents??


as for the name...couldnt of cared less either. z28 is more recognizable than zl1...told the news to my gf and she was like ''what the hells a ZL1''. seems like something they might have to end up renaming (ala ford 500/taurus). i dont like the giant wheels either. if it really is a zl1 i wanna see at least having the option to buy a stripper. that would be really cool.

Your GF is not the target buyer. Your gf wouldnt know the difference between an S class from a 7 series from a Ferrari.

I keep hearing that people want a stripped down model...exactly what options would you want taken out? A radio? Power windows? Power locks?



Its typical GM, they dove head first into the parts bin and took the CTS-V stuff and smashed it into the Camaro, then took the nose (lower fog lamp areas look like the V's headlight area upside down?) of the V and the hood of the Vette and smashed them on to the nose of the Camaro. Sure its got incredible power, and a legendary name, and is the most technologically advanced Camaro ever produced but it still isn't a good looking car. It still rolls on hideously large wheels. It still weighs far too much (4100lbs? are you kidding? Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser wagons didn't weigh that much!!!) and I bet by the time it hits the dealer lots it will cost over $50k.

No doubt it weighs a lot, but its a lot lighter then the CTS-V, and that is one fast car.
Large wheels are 22lbs lighter per wheel to teh smaller 20 inch wheels on the SS.
Looks are subjective.

I got an idea. GM should take the LS7 (in full trim, not some detuned version) and stuff it into the fenderwells. Include a true dry sump (not the bastardized thing on the vette's). Lower the car on a true performance suspension, include the trick shocks and other suspension improvements, drop the wheel size down to 18" (make them lightweight as well) with as much brake as you can package. Just put a set of factory headers and a good exhaust on the damn thing (not some 2 tone electric gizmo). Full carbon fiber hood and deck lid. Seat upgrade and steering wheel upgrade.

Get the car to weigh something around 3600-3800lbs by losing the super charger/intercooler, hideous large wheels and corresponding brakes (if the car doesn't weigh so much you won't need as much brake), two tone exhaust and associated wiring and controls, and by doing the carbon hood and decklid. If other things need to be sacrificed, then power seats go bye-bye, followed by excessive sound deadening.

Offer from the factory:
A rear seat delete option with a harness bar.
Functional brake ducting front and rear.
A/C delete.

Do not offer as an option under any circumstances:
Convertible
Moon/Sun Roof
Automatic transmission (paddle shift or not)

If they really are going for on-track performance, that's what they should build or something along those lines.

If you want uber comfort with world class performance, go by a V. If you want world class super car performance, go get the Vette of your choice. If you want a bad ass Camaro, this is your car.

And sell it out the door for no more than $42K with a full tank of gas. Then maybe you could call it a ZL1, but I would still prefer to call it a Z28.

What you want is a Z28, or what I believe to be a real Z28.
This is not supposed to be that type car. This is a GT500 fighter, a super-car for under 60k.
This car is not for you, no doubt. The ZL1 will not be offered with an auto, or a convertable, or with a sunroof.
LS7 costs more then the LSA does by a good margin. Would be easier to make a higher output LS3.


99% of the people on this board are not buying this car. Cars of this caliber, despite the badge, need to have certain things. It needs heated seats. It needs fancy interiors. It needs it because everyone else is doing it.
If they dont, then you guys come on line and say that GM makes 2nd rate cars that dont compete.

[LTb1ow]

So it comes with a pair of dead hookers in the trunk standard? Or is that an option?


:rofl::rofl:

[WildBillyT]

Then you are way more jaded then even the oldest car journo...

ZL1 packs a lot of stuff, way more then the former ZL1 did. All it had was an engine that cost as much as the whole car did. The rest of the car was nothing. What technology did the rest of it have? ****, it didnt have AC, radio, power seats, windows...were front disk brakes even stardard on a $8,300 car?



I thought I was being pretty consistent about only concerning myself with the engine. That is my point. I wish they had done something more off the wall under the hood, like the original. I am fully aware that the wrapper for the ZL1 cars back in 1969 was a stripped down L78 car. I am also aware that that is not where GM wanted to stop with the car, which is a lesser known fact.

[1QWIKBIRD]

...snip

No doubt it weighs a lot, but its a lot lighter then the CTS-V, and that is one fast car.
Large wheels are 22lbs lighter per wheel to teh smaller 20 inch wheels on the SS.
Looks are subjective.


What you want is a Z28, or what I believe to be a real Z28.
This is not supposed to be that type car. This is a GT500 fighter, a super-car for under 60k.
This car is not for you, no doubt. The ZL1 will not be offered with an auto, or a convertable, or with a sunroof.
LS7 costs more then the LSA does by a good margin. Would be easier to make a higher output LS3.


99% of the people on this board are not buying this car. Cars of this caliber, despite the badge, need to have certain things. It needs heated seats. It needs fancy interiors. It needs it because everyone else is doing it.
If they dont, then you guys come on line and say that GM makes 2nd rate cars that dont compete.

Well if it needs all these "things" it should also have more extensive use of exotic materials to get the thing under 2 tons. Carbon fiber front fenders, hood and deck lid. If the 22's it rolls on are lighter, then I'd venture a guess that an 18" wheel would be lighter still. If Ford can get their car to 3820 lbs, why can't GM get into the same ballpark? 300lbs is 300lbs?

[BigAls87Z28]

I thought I was being pretty consistent about only concerning myself with the engine. That is my point. I wish they had done something more off the wall under the hood, like the original. I am fully aware that the wrapper for the ZL1 cars back in 1969 was a stripped down L78 car. I am also aware that that is not where GM wanted to stop with the car, which is a lesser known fact.

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

[LTb1ow]

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

Brian is doing it with an LT1. Tons of people do it all the time to regular ole SBC blocks...

A supercharger doesn't scream exotic to me at all.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well if it needs all these "things" it should also have more extensive use of exotic materials to get the thing under 2 tons. Carbon fiber front fenders, hood and deck lid. If the 22's it rolls on are lighter, then I'd venture a guess that an 18" wheel would be lighter still. If Ford can get their car to 3820 lbs, why can't GM get into the same ballpark? 300lbs is 300lbs?

They are forged 20's.
Realize that exotic materials means $$$. The GT500 dropped under 100lbs because it went to an all aluminum engine. GT500 does not have the magnetic shocks or the IRS system the Camaro has. There is a 200lbs difference between the two chassis.

Carbon fiber fenders, hood, and deck lid would be an easy extra 15k in materials. And that would save say 100lbs, since the hood and deck lid are aluminum already, the weight would come out of the fenders. So now its 4k, and now it costs 65k. Lets say it saves 200lbs....stil 65k.


Again, you guys are looking for a different car.

[BigAls87Z28]

Brian is doing it with an LT1. Tons of people do it all the time to regular ole SBC blocks...

A supercharger doesn't scream exotic to me at all.

Superchargers are different, Smash. Dont expect you to know the difference.

[LTb1ow]

Superchargers are different, Smash. Dont expect you to know the difference.

Yes, I realize there are differences in superchargers, but again, ford has been throwing them on mustangs since god knows when. Just cause something is new to GM, does not mean its "exotic".

Just saying and all. :wink:

[BigAls87Z28]

Yes, I realize there are differences in superchargers, but again, ford has been throwing them on mustangs since god knows when. Just cause something is new to GM, does not mean its "exotic".

Just saying and all. :wink:

The 4 lobe supercharger is not on the Mustang. They use the older 3 lobe guy. Never said it was exotic, just better and the newwest version.

[WildBillyT]

I really fail to see the difference or what you expected to be that spectacular here? Aluminum engines have been done before, and were put into cars before the ZL1. Rare, yes, but so is a 550hp 4 lobe rotor supercharger considering this is the 3rd car ever to get one from the factory.

I understand what you mean. But from what I gather, very few (if any) domestic cars during that time period got aluminum blocks, especially at that power level. The only brand I can think of off of the top of my head that made an aluminum V8 was Buick for a short time in the early 60's. It was unique in the fact that it was the best GM could offer. In this case I really fail to see the wow factor. You said yourself, this is the 3rd car to get one from the factory. So what really sets this apart? That it's in a Camaro? Pricing? If it's pricing I can see that.

[BigAls87Z28]

I understand what you mean. But from what I gather, very few (if any) domestic cars during that time period got aluminum blocks, especially at that power level. The only brand I can think of off of the top of my head that made an aluminum V8 was Buick for a short time in the early 60's. It was unique in the fact that it was the best GM could offer. In this case I really fail to see the wow factor. You said yourself, this is the 3rd car to get one from the factory. So what really sets this apart? That it's in a Camaro?

I guess nothing. There is nothing special about this car, what so ever. Its just another big heavy boat with a big boat anchor that will be slow.

[LTb1ow]

I guess nothing. There is nothing special about this car, what so ever. Its just another big heavy boat with a big boat anchor that will be slow.

Oh don't give up pal. Just cause the meanies aren't agreeing with you doesn't mean you should throw in the towel. :nod:

[V]

ya know what... if you want it to be a z28, buy them dam car and put 1st gen z28 badges on it... problem solved

[BigAls87Z28]

Oh don't give up pal. Just cause the meanies aren't agreeing with you doesn't mean you should throw in the towel. :nod:

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

[LTb1ow]

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

Thats why I like the LT1, limited edition. :nod:

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually...rumors are that the LT1 RPO code will return...

[LTb1ow]

Actually...rumors are that the LT1 RPO code will return...

Damnit. :|

[NastyEllEssWon]

=BigAls87Z28;750318

Your GF is not the target buyer. Your gf wouldnt know the difference between an S class from a 7 series from a Ferrari.






why wouldnt she be a target demographic. isn't gm trying to sell this thing off heritage??

also she does know the differences about cars and she was rowing the gears way before you were a fetus fanboy.

[BigAls87Z28]

Congrats to her. Still not the target buyer for this car.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Congrats to her. Still not the target buyer for this car.




and explain yourself why not.

[LTb1ow]

and explain yourself why not.

Doesn't clear 150k a year, doesn't matter. :lol:

[WildBillyT]

Its not that. Trying to fight history is impossible. There is a time to just not bother. Its not a matter of agreeing with me, because for the most part I understand what they are saying.
Its that some people cannot be pleased. What some people want is just a 69 Camaro, reproduced, with a big block, a M22 4spd manual, 12 bolt rear, dog dish hub caps, and 1320 ft of open road.

Cars are more than just an engine. If this engine is not fancy enough for you because its not exclusive to Camaro and does not offer any sort of gee-wiz wow feature, then there is no pleasing you.

Eh, it's really not quite like that. Feel free to laugh openly, but I'm not one of the guys who feels that civilization was doomed the day they cut the compression ratio of the LS-6. Thing is, I deal with misbranding, bad positioning, and the like all the time in the MR industry. Right now it appears to me that the Z28 nameplate has much better recall: ask a joe off the street what a ZL1 is and they probably won't know, but they will know a Z28. GM has a lot of good vibes from the past in their naming, they just have to leverage it correctly.

From a positioning standpoint, it seems like the new ZL1 is in a bit of a tough spot- it's got a lot of competition from three fronts. First, internal stuff like the ZR-1 and the V. Yeah, pricing is different but to a lot of people that can afford it it's not that big a jump. Second, external stuff from other brands. Challenger, Shelby, etc. Third, places like SLP who are already offering those types of power levels, and people homebuilding stuff. So if they want this to be a hit, I think they need something that sets it apart from the rest of the pack, and (in my opinion) the place to do that is under the hood, where you can play on the old school vibe of the RPO. It doesn't matter if you are selling cars or cheeseburgers. Something's got to be there to make people want to buy your product over someone else's.

If you are done that's cool and I'll STFU about it. I am being honest when I am saying I am just trying to understand what they are trying to accomplish, because it looks like they took their kickass engine, dropped it in the Camaro, slapped a vintage emblem on it, and let 'er rip without thinking about much else. Naming aside I am very impressed with it.

[NJ346]

My belief on why the Z28 nameplate wasn't used because they are waiting until the camaro switches platforms to the alpha(I believe that's the new chassis name) and becomes smaller. From what I understand, that's only like 3 years off, and the Z28 would launch as a smaller,lighter,agile car that everyone associates with the heritage that the Z28 nameplate stands for. If this is in fact the plan by GM, it's some great marketing because the camaro will continue to get a refresh and stay "new" in consumers eyes.(Introduced in 09, top of the line car in 12, whole line refresh in ~14, and the long awaited Z28 a year after)

[DaSkinnyGuy]

wonder if any new color options?

[BigAls87Z28]

Eh, it's really not quite like that. Feel free to laugh openly, but I'm not one of the guys who feels that civilization was doomed the day they cut the compression ratio of the LS-6. Thing is, I deal with misbranding, bad positioning, and the like all the time in the MR industry. Right now it appears to me that the Z28 nameplate has much better recall: ask a joe off the street what a ZL1 is and they probably won't know, but they will know a Z28. GM has a lot of good vibes from the past in their naming, they just have to leverage it correctly.

Z28 has bigger impact, no doubt. Its that VERY reason I didnt want this car to be called Z28. People complain about GM just slapping badges on anything just for the hell of it. This here shows that they took history and enthusiasts into account, since they will be the ones that spread the word of mouth on this car. This car is not for the average joe, or for Nasty's girlfriend.

From a positioning standpoint, it seems like the new ZL1 is in a bit of a tough spot- it's got a lot of competition from three fronts. First, internal stuff like the ZR-1 and the V. Yeah, pricing is different but to a lot of people that can afford it it's not that big a jump. Second, external stuff from other brands. Challenger, Shelby, etc. Third, places like SLP who are already offering those types of power levels, and people homebuilding stuff. So if they want this to be a hit, I think they need something that sets it apart from the rest of the pack, and (in my opinion) the place to do that is under the hood, where you can play on the old school vibe of the RPO. It doesn't matter if you are selling cars or cheeseburgers. Something's got to be there to make people want to buy your product over someone else's.

So because of competition, they should not do this? That is ANOTHER thing that people bash GM on. They dont go far enough, they dont do certain things when others are doing it. When Ford was pumping out Mustangs from 03 to 09, GM got bashed for NOT making a Camaro.
So because some guy can bolt on a supercharger in his garage means that GM should avoid making this car? That is the worst logic in the history of the automotive world. If you think this, then GM should bail out of the mid-sized car arena and let Accord and Camry do its thing.
A ZL1, a Z06, and a CTS-V owner are 3 different people

If you are done that's cool and I'll STFU about it. I am being honest when I am saying I am just trying to understand what they are trying to accomplish, because it looks like they took their kickass engine, dropped it in the Camaro, slapped a vintage emblem on it, and let 'er rip without thinking about much else. Naming aside I am very impressed with it.

WHA!! You do not understand this car at all. They didnt just drop an engine in a car and hoped for the best.

[BonzoHansen]

why wouldnt she be a target demographic. isn't gm trying to sell this thing off heritage??

also she does know the differences about cars and she was rowing the gears way before you were a fetus fanboy.

so what does your girlfriend who seems to be BaddestBill's age drive now? That will speak volumes about if she is the target market for a $60k+ Camaro.


My belief on why the Z28 nameplate wasn't used because they are waiting until the camaro switches platforms to the alpha(I believe that's the new chassis name) and becomes smaller. From what I understand, that's only like 3 years off, and the Z28 would launch as a smaller,lighter,agile car that everyone associates with the heritage that the Z28 nameplate stands for. If this is in fact the plan by GM, it's some great marketing because the camaro will continue to get a refresh and stay "new" in consumers eyes.(Introduced in 09, top of the line car in 12, whole line refresh in ~14, and the long awaited Z28 a year after)

sounds reasonable to me.

[ws6 jim]

wonder if any new color options?

They said all colors would be available and I'm guessing thats including the new Carbon Black(metallic).

To the main topic I'm glad they threw their parts bin at the platform. It seems in comparison to the GT500 and SRT8 this car is way ahead of the curve. It seems like they did their homework and want that driveability and track readiness and that comes at a weight cost. I actually like my boat of a 5th gen because of its smoothness and effortlessness-I can only imagine the magnetic shocks and 125hp increase. I want to know pricing because it seems like there is going to be a big markup over the current 2ss. GM seems to have their act together in the matter that trans is upgraded over standard tr6060, rear is upgraded, and they have all the extra trim to give you a more complete package then an engine upgrade. The name doesn't bother me, but it doesn't scream out to you either. I guess we'll just have to continue complaining about who's not going to be the audience and why LT1s will one day rule the world until its released.

[qwikz28]

Interestingly, I just got back from class, and my buddy that sits next to me with a Nissan Z car just started spewing out history of the ZL1. He saw the nomenclature, and looked it up, and was shocked.

I'd love a Z28 for obvious reasons, but I see why they did what they did.

[NastyEllEssWon]

so what does your girlfriend who seems to be BaddestBill's age drive now? That will speak volumes about if she is the target market for a $60k+ Camaro.




lol right now we have the ion because the price was right and the mileage is great. but we/me are looking at picking up a fun car to jam around in the nice weather. i usually like to pay for my cars in cash to avoid payments, but she's been taking a look at the big 3 right now (stang, challenger and camaro) and keeping the girl happy while having a fun toy you both enjoy is always a plus.

as for 60k+ camaro, you really think it would be that high??? i was thinking more like high 40s low 50s to compete with the gt500. it would suck if gm outprices this car.

[Frosty]

as for 60k+ camaro, you really think it would be that high??? i was thinking more like high 40s low 50s to compete with the gt500. it would suck if gm outprices this car.

A loaded GT500 is almost $60K I believe.

[sweetbmxrider]

I think this car is going to sell great and that's the only thing that matters. All that technology from the other platforms being used will really make an outstanding car. That magnetic suspension is badass and the motor will keep you pinned to the backrest. Its going to be a great car.

[WildBillyT]

Z28 has bigger impact, no doubt. Its that VERY reason I didnt want this car to be called Z28. People complain about GM just slapping badges on anything just for the hell of it. This here shows that they took history and enthusiasts into account, since they will be the ones that spread the word of mouth on this car. This car is not for the average joe, or for Nasty's girlfriend. No argument here.


So because of competition, they should not do this? That is ANOTHER thing that people bash GM on. They dont go far enough, they dont do certain things when others are doing it. When Ford was pumping out Mustangs from 03 to 09, GM got bashed for NOT making a Camaro.
So because some guy can bolt on a supercharger in his garage means that GM should avoid making this car? That is the worst logic in the history of the automotive world. If you think this, then GM should bail out of the mid-sized car arena and let Accord and Camry do its thing.
A ZL1, a Z06, and a CTS-V owner are 3 different people

Not what I'm saying at all. Not even close. I'm saying if they position it right given the other options in the market right now it can do very well. If they don't, it will sell very poorly.


WHA!! You do not understand this car at all. They didnt just drop an engine in a car and hoped for the best. Wow, give me a little credit. I'm know it's not THAT simple due to other features and options that were added to make the car what it is. My point is that they built a bad ass car. Do they know what they are going to do with it, or how they can sell it effectively? I hope so, because their track record with stuff like that is hit or miss. The exposure for the Camaro itself is very well done, but this is a different deal. The aforementiond other options for consumers have been out there for a while and GM will have to take sales away from them.

Please see in red. Thanks.

[DaSkinnyGuy]

This car is going to be a blast with a upgraded cam, pulley,longtubes & tune. Of course swapping from the 1.9L supercharger to the 2.3L will net even more gain.

[1QWIKBIRD]

If GM really wants to do this right, lets go whole hog, all in and do it 100%. Here's the deal if you want to truly capitalize on the whole ZL-1 theme.

Take the LS7 motor out of the Vette (respect the 427 heritage) and turn up the wick, just a bit, maybe go from 505 to 550. Hand built or not, we need 427 cubic inches. Anything less is insulting. The orginal ZL1 was not sublte, neither should this version. Let people know you are arriving and you brought your A-game.

How satisfying would it be to kick Supercharged DOHC Ford mustang tail with a "boring" old OHV 2v per cylinder cam in block NA mill? And make sure the oiling system is up to the task, and doesn't starve the motor for oil and blow after being on track for 20 minutes, please.

Do a full carbon hood (give me that much, please).

Give the car headers and full performance exhaust (sorry aftermarket). A side exit style exhaust would be really nice touch if possible.

Keep all the suspension goodies and the P-Diddy huge by large by ugly wheels if you must. Get the car to sit lower or at least give the illusion with some side skirts (nicely done).

Give the car a seat upgrade (keep the heaters, the power lumbar etc.) Include some houndstooth or ZL1 stitching as appropriate.

Make only 69 (or maybe 112) of them in the first year and sell them for 69K. Then see where that gets you. That would honoring the heritage of the original ZL1.

[HeadlessNorseman]

now it will run 13.8 at 145.