No 420 threads?

[12secondv6]

Yay!

Legal to grow in New Jersey for select businesses... but no dispenseries yet... but I am axiously awaiting the day.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2011/03/new_jersey_medical_marijuana_d.html

For me, it's not a matter of getting high... it is escaping pain. I've had 3 surgeries to my spine... and one more coming up... and I am in pain. Been that way for 4 years and oxycoton/ vicoden etc has bad side effects and my pain management doctor and neurosurgeon have said this will be my life so I'll be very happy when everything is set up.

Soooo, yay 420

[LTb1ow]

inb4tootsie

[wretched73]

Yay!

Legal to grow in New Jersey for select businesses... but no dispenseries yet... but I am axiously awaiting the day.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2011/03/new_jersey_medical_marijuana_d.html

For me, it's not a matter of getting high... it is escaping pain. I've had 3 surgeries to my spine... and one more coming up... and I am in pain. Been that way for 4 years and oxycoton/ vicoden etc has bad side effects and my pain management doctor and neurosurgeon have said this will be my life so I'll be very happy when everything is set up.

Soooo, yay 420

And I hope for your comfort that everything goes well

inb4tootsie

x2

[Frosty]

I don't smoke but it should be legal. One day...

[redsoxsstink]

I don't smoke but it should be legal. One day...

agreed. tax that stuff and make money.... i like money:twisted:

[NastyEllEssWon]

its getting there. having a state such as nj that has mandatory minimum sentencing to give in to medical marijuana is the first step. next step is decriminalization. i can live with that.

[BonzoHansen]

Yay!

Legal to grow in New Jersey for select businesses... but no dispenseries yet... but I am axiously awaiting the day.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2011/03/new_jersey_medical_marijuana_d.html

For me, it's not a matter of getting high... it is escaping pain. I've had 3 surgeries to my spine... and one more coming up... and I am in pain. Been that way for 4 years and oxycoton/ vicoden etc has bad side effects and my pain management doctor and neurosurgeon have said this will be my life so I'll be very happy when everything is set up.

Soooo, yay 420

I'm glad there are no '420' posts because of there were we'd axe them as we have no drug rules here. Plus the whole 420 things is stupid. most stoners are too stoned to remember anyway lol

they need these medical rules though, but I'm sure big pharma is fighting it bad, and they are big employers in NJ and that matters

note: keep this apolitical or we kill it.

[NastyEllEssWon]

keeping it on the apolitical side....making marijuana legal would open up a ton of jobs in the industrial and retail sides of things. we could always use more jobs in new jersey :nod:

[spina74]

Yes, so I'll have the chance to deal with more DUI's and stoned people along with drunks.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Yes, so I'll have the chance to deal with more DUI's and stoned people along with drunks.



how would it be any different than now. its not like marijuana use would go up, it would just keep non violent ''offenders'' out of jail and using up government resources arresting, prosecuting and housing these ''criminals''. alcohol is legal but still illegal to be behind the wheel while inebriated. the same rules would apply

[alamantia]

I was going to make a post but I forgot to

[greenformula92]

agreed. tax that stuff and make money.... i like money:twisted:

me and my cousin were just saying that last night

[V]

nj doesnt allow for PTSD... yet... but who knows, my other issues may qualify me.

[Frosty]

how would it be any different than now. its not like marijuana use would go up, it would just keep non violent ''offenders'' out of jail and using up government resources arresting, prosecuting and housing these ''criminals''. alcohol is legal but still illegal to be behind the wheel while inebriated. the same rules would apply

Exactly.

[mtnhopper1]

This is still a thing?

1997 much?

[mtnhopper1]

I was going to make a post but I forgot to

That's classic. Probably in the majority among your peers.

[Slow-V6]

It would put alot of Drug dealers out of buisiness causing them to find other illegal ways to make money!!

[coolmanvette75]

I say make it legal. Drug dealers would go out of business and our over crowded jails would have more room for people who actually deserve to be there like murderers and molesters, etc.

Tax it and make money

[Slow-V6]

Its a good idea but I know that most Drug dealers would turn to more violent crimes like murder, Breaking into peoples homes and **** if they lost alot of there customers.. I had friends that were dealers in Camden, and Philly growing up that had no Highschool deploma, and no credit or job experiance that only knew how to deal drugs and there biggest customers were people who purchased pot.. That would be the only thing that would scare me if they made pot legal! What would all these drug dealers do when they loose 50% or more of there customers??

[WildBillyT]

Its a good idea but I know that most Drug dealers would turn to more violent crimes like murder, Breaking into peoples homes and **** if they lost alot of there customers.. I had friends that were dealers in Camden, and Philly growing up that had no Highschool deploma, and no credit or job experiance that only knew how to deal drugs and there biggest customers were people who purchased pot.. That would be the only thing that would scare me if they made pot legal! What would all these drug dealers do when they loose 50% or more of there customers??

Or that we would have to let a lot people out of prison who were convicted of pot possession or dealing all at once?

[V]

you all realize there are other drugs to be sold than just weed, right?

legalization of marijuana would maybe hurt some recreational dealers, like rich kids who do it to be popular, but true drug dealers will still fair well. so no need to worry about them losing their jobs.

[LTb1ow]

But, legalization would mean the govt. has been misleading me with lies all these years?

Weed won't kill me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0YtPi2QZSY

I feel betrayed.

[spina74]

The fact that it would be legal means it won't be as low keyed. Its done less publicly due to the deterrance of getting in trouble.

[Adam1978]

i am for the legislation, however, they did just find the exact chemical within marijuana that helps in the medical field. This is a big plus for the medical marijuana fighters, a big hit for the people who want it legalized for more nefarious causes. Although i dont smoke, a lot of my friends do, and i do not consider it a drug drug, for recreational use it could be taxed which is what we need, it could open jobs, and there could still be driving and smoking regulations like there are about booze. Although i did find it ironic that my friends and i spent most of 4/20 talking about business, politics, theological debates as well as quantum and theoretical physics...yeah we're cool lol

[Squirrel]

I personally dont smoke, and i think potheads are 3rd class citizens, but THC and its derivatives are one of the most beneficial compounds ever discovered, all the benefits and a shred of the side effects compared to other drugs used that THC can cover... Nasty, i'm gonna have to disagree with you on the job thing, I believe, especially in NJ where there are LOTS of Fortune 1000 companies based, that it will hurt jobs... Why buy an appetite enhancer, pain killer, sleep aid, arthritis reliever, cognitive relaxer, stomach relaxer, etc from all different companies when you can buy 1 medicine down the street at the shop next to the local 7-11 for much cheaper, easier, and with less side effects?.... I think it will cripple pharma companies in NJ

[WildBillyT]

i am for the legislation, however, they did just find the exact chemical within marijuana that helps in the medical field. This is a big plus for the medical marijuana fighters, a big hit for the people who want it legalized for more nefarious causes. Although i dont smoke, a lot of my friends do, and i do not consider it a drug drug, for recreational use it could be taxed which is what we need, it could open jobs, and there could still be driving and smoking regulations like there are about booze. Although i did find it ironic that my friends and i spent most of 4/20 talking about business, politics, theological debates as well as quantum and theoretical physics...yeah we're cool lol

I personally dont smoke, and i think potheads are 3rd class citizens, but THC and its derivatives are one of the most beneficial compounds ever discovered, all the benefits and a shred of the side effects compared to other drugs used that THC can cover... Nasty, i'm gonna have to disagree with you on the job thing, I believe, especially in NJ where there are LOTS of Fortune 1000 companies based, that it will hurt jobs... Why buy an appetite enhancer, pain killer, sleep aid, arthritis reliever, cognitive relaxer, stomach relaxer, etc from all different companies when you can buy 1 medicine down the street at the shop next to the local 7-11 for much cheaper, easier, and with less side effects?.... I think it will cripple pharma companies in NJ

I would bet that Pharma will find a way to extract the necessary chemical structures from MJ and concentrate them for more effective use. Squirrel, kinda like how supp companies process creatine. You can get it via a steak but in order to get a useful dosage you need it more pure and refined.

PS to everybody, thanks for keeping this civil and on topic.

[LTb1ow]

I would bet that Pharma will find a way to extract the necessary chemical structures from MJ and concentrate them for more effective use. Squirrel, kinda like how supp companies process creatine. You can get it via a steak but in order to get a useful dosage you need it more pure and refined.

PS to everybody, thanks for keeping this civil and on topic.


Yea but the supp market is far from being overseen by a regulating group. More regulations would be lame.

[Squirrel]

I would bet that Pharma will find a way to extract the necessary chemical structures from MJ and concentrate them for more effective use. Squirrel, kinda like how supp companies process creatine. You can get it via a steak but in order to get a useful dosage you need it more pure and refined.

PS to everybody, thanks for keeping this civil and on topic.

Well THC has been processed for medicinal use for decades, but theres only so many ways to skin a cat IMO

Yea but the supp market is far from being overseen by a regulating group. More regulations would be lame.

This too, the supp companies laugh all the way to the bank at the FDA lol, i have stuff in my closet that is lethal to an un-informed person haha

[sweetbmxrider]

I had a great time on 420........NYIAS BOOOOOO YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[jts98z28]

it should definitely be legalized imo cigarettes are 1000x worse than marijuana

[JL8Jeff]

It's getting to the point where we need to look at it from the point of view if fighting it is really worth the money and effort. I can see where it gets legalized for medicinal purposes but it will be tough to see it get legalized across the board. There are plenty of arguments both ways but changing perceptions and opinions will be tough. If people are willing to pay the huge tax on cigarettes, they will most likely be willing to pay a big tax on mj as well.

[Slow-V6]

Also I was in the Navy for 10 yrs and I cant imagine what would happen if they made it legal and you can go into a WaWa and get a pack of Pot cigs when it is Zero Tolerance in the military for drugs like pot!!

[LTb1ow]

Also I was in the Navy for 10 yrs and I cant imagine what would happen if they made it legal and you can go into a WaWa and get a pack of Pot cigs when it is Zero Tolerance in the military for drugs like pot!!

The same thing would happen if you came back from liberty reeking of alcohol and underage...

Routine drug tests would have no problem deterring something if you signed a contract agreeing to not use.

[Frosty]

The same thing would happen if you came back from liberty reeking of alcohol and underage...

Routine drug tests would have no problem deterring something if you signed a contract agreeing to not use.

Ding ding ding ding.

Also, who said anything about going to Wawa to get weed? I would like to think the government on federal/state/local levels would have strict oversight just like alcohol. They would have dispensaries. Can you go to Wawa and get alcohol?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Ding ding ding ding.

Also, who said anything about going to Wawa to get weed? I would like to think the government on federal/state/local levels would have strict oversight just like alcohol. They would have dispensaries. Can you go to Wawa and get alcohol?



in california you can buy alcohol at 7-11 :nod:

[Frosty]

I know that, same with some other states, just not around here. It all depends on state and local governments.

[WildBillyT]

I know that, same with some other states, just not around here. It all depends on state and local governments.

You PA guys have it rough that way.

[Frosty]

Eh, I'm not really a beer fan so it's no loss here. I'd rather just got to a local wine&spirits shop to get what I need. ;)

[BigAls87Z28]

But, legalization would mean the govt. has been misleading me with lies all these years?

Weed won't kill me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0YtPi2QZSY

I feel betrayed.

Guess you haven't seen ads for alcohol and cigs?

Legalize it, tax it, make it happen. Still would be illegal to be under the influence.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Guess you haven't seen ads for alcohol and cigs?

Legalize it, tax it, make it happen. Still would be illegal to be under the influence.



its not illegal to be high. just possessing it. :nod:

[WildBillyT]

Eh, I'm not really a beer fan so it's no loss here. I'd rather just got to a local wine&spirits shop to get what I need. ;)

I can buy beer, wine, and liqour and all of my groceries at the same place on a Sunday morning- and all on the same reciept :mrgreen:

[LTb1ow]

I can buy beer, wine, and liqour and all of my groceries at the same place on a Sunday morning- and all on the same reciept :mrgreen:

And I believe NJ is trying to expand the ability for most supermarkets and restaurant to sell alcohol.

Gotta love taking advantage of a slump in the economy by taxing more of the stuff depressed people use. :lol:

[Slow-V6]

The same thing would happen if you came back from liberty reeking of alcohol and underage...

Routine drug tests would have no problem deterring something if you signed a contract agreeing to not use.

Its not against navy policy to drink and get drunk as long as you are like you said 21, on liberty, and not at work.. When you are away from US waters like in the Med you can drink alcohol as long as you are 18.. And I know a few people who got caught drinking under age ( like myself) and we just got a slap on the hand for it.. Most of the chiefs and bosses in the navy say if you are old enough to die for your country @ 18yrs old then you should be old enough to drink as well.


You would be surprised on how many people get kicked out of the Navy for using Pot.. Thats the way the Navy WEEDS out the idiots who still smoke pot even though we get drugged tested sometimes 2-3 times a month.. If they make it legal to buy and smoke Pot then most of them who got kicked out with dishonorable discharge due to smoking pot would have a case to get that changed to a other then or Honorable dishcharge and may even get to come back in the military..

I am for making it legal as it will make the goverment money but there are alot of nagative effects as well that they better look at before doing so..

Ding ding ding ding.

. Can you go to Wawa and get alcohol?

When I was station is Virginia Beach the WaWa's down there had Beer, Wine and some alcohol in them..

[Tsar]

After they legalize it, someone is gonna attempt to legalize something else - perhaps something "harder". They will say "well, you legalized mj, this is just as harmless under controlled conditions" and a new **** storm will ensure.

[BonzoHansen]

After they legalize it, someone is gonna attempt to legalize something else - perhaps something "harder". They will say "well, you legalized mj, this is just as harmless under controlled conditions" and a new **** storm will ensure.

I never saw you as a slippery slope type. lol

[Tsar]

I never saw you as a slippery slope type. lol

Interesting, what type did you picture me as? :lol: Surely not a stoner?!

[BonzoHansen]

More of a personal responsibility, hey control yourself a**hole type. :) No, def not a stoner.

[Frosty]

Tsar, you're right....it's a slippery slope. With that said alcohol should be banned. Oh wait, we tried that and it failed miserably lol

Jeff, I know in other areas you can get alcohol in Wawa's and convenience stores. I meant up here. ;)

It's still a reach saying you'd be able to buy weed at a local store.

[Tsar]

I think I'm one of those too. :lol: I've also ran into a few stoner types, and we generally don't get along, so I'm not a big fan of mj to begin with. Maybe it's the whole "personality" thing, who knows. I just know that wouldn't magically start smoking it if they made it legal, it provides absolutely no benefits to me. And I do honestly believe in the slippery slope argument.

[Squirrel]

After they legalize it, someone is gonna attempt to legalize something else - perhaps something "harder". They will say "well, you legalized mj, this is just as harmless under controlled conditions" and a new **** storm will ensure.

well... in the early 1900's you could find heroin in a sears catalog

[Tsar]

well... in the early 1900's you could find heroin in a sears catalog

OMGWTFBBQ and they use to have real coke in coca cola! Who would have thought.... I'm aware of the fact that drugs were not illegal back in the day. They also gave people radioactive material to ingest to make those fancy movies of how stuff moves through your body, I doubt you'd find volunteers today..

[NastyEllEssWon]

it all comes down to the basic fact that america can benefit so much from not only legalizing recreational marijuana, but we would be revitalizing an entire industry. im sure i dont have to tell you all the benefits that hemp production in america would do.....and thats all just ''byproducts'' of growing marijuana.

[JL8Jeff]

When they find a way to make fuel out of mj, it will be legalized! :lol:

[Frosty]

When they find a way to make fuel out of mj, it will be legalized! :lol:

:rofl: If that happens the stoners will be running their cars in the garage with the door shut. Exhaust high FTW :lol:

[Squirrel]

it all comes down to the basic fact that america can benefit so much from not only legalizing recreational marijuana, but we would be revitalizing an entire industry. im sure i dont have to tell you all the benefits that hemp production in america would do.....and thats all just ''byproducts'' of growing marijuana.

http://hwcdn.themoviedb.org/oldimg/backdrops/44579/Biodome_poster.JPG

[NastyEllEssWon]

im not sure what a picture of pauly shore tending to some big daddy purple is doing in this thread...let alone relevant to the conversation.

i speak the truth though. hemp seed oil is not only very nutritious but its also a natural lubricant and also used in the future as a crude renewable bio diesel. the fact that hemp is also very fibrous and can be used in rope, paper, clothing and various other products it would not only bring much needed domestic products to america, but revitalize the farming industry as we know it. lets face it, hemp grows very tall, very fast and is only considered the ''garbage'' that gets thrown away when cultivating marijuana for buds.

throw in the fact that you can make money off the valuable female plants with recreational users and medicinal purposes via taxes then you have a very profitable foundation for bringing america back into prosperity and out of a recession.


thats not even touching on the fact the millions saved per year not pursuing, arresting and housing non violent ''criminals'' per year. all for a plant.

[BigAls87Z28]

im not sure what a picture of pauly shore tending to some big daddy purple is doing in this thread...let alone relevant to the conversation.

i speak the truth though. hemp seed oil is not only very nutritious but its also a natural lubricant and also used in the future as a crude renewable bio diesel. the fact that hemp is also very fibrous and can be used in rope, paper, clothing and various other products it would not only bring much needed domestic products to america, but revitalize the farming industry as we know it. lets face it, hemp grows very tall, very fast and is only considered the ''garbage'' that gets thrown away when cultivating marijuana for buds.

throw in the fact that you can make money off the valuable female plants with recreational users and medicinal purposes via taxes then you have a very profitable foundation for bringing america back into prosperity and out of a recession.


thats not even touching on the fact the millions saved per year not pursuing, arresting and housing non violent ''criminals'' per year. all for a plant.


This is the best argument for legalizing the stuff, and the one that more and more people should make. $$$ talks, ******** walks.
When people say its not as harmful or just as harmful as tobacco, liquor, etc etc, that argument just highlights the bad parts, and does not help the cause.
Keep talking about how it makes money and could be 100% American, most people will gobble it up.

[Brendan713]

okay i am on the fence, could someone show/tell me the things that allow people to use medical mj in NJ? like cancer, guacloma etc etc

[NastyEllEssWon]

nj is strict on the prescriptions right now. its mostly terminal patients right now to ease the pain and suffering. its regulated tougher than california is, which you can get it for all types of pain.

[Brendan713]

ah okay, i wanna find the full list because i might be eligible for it depending on certain regulations, California im sure i could get it no prob, still i dunno what i would do, haven't ever done it before.

[NastyEllEssWon]

ah okay, i wanna find the full list because i might be eligible for it depending on certain regulations, California im sure i could get it no prob, still i dunno what i would do, haven't ever done it before.




basically gotta have aids or cancer in nj right now.

[Squirrel]

im not sure what a picture of pauly shore tending to some big daddy purple is doing in this thread...let alone relevant to the conversation.


ever seen bio dome?

[WildBillyT]

I think this is a good commentary on the subject. Makes a strong political statement about both the positives and negatives of MJ while exploring both the historical and social contexts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAyUN0KNs-c

[79T/A]

You would be surprised on how many people get kicked out of the Navy for using Pot.. Thats the way the Navy WEEDS out the idiots who still smoke pot even though we get drugged tested sometimes 2-3 times a month.. If they make it legal to buy and smoke Pot then most of them who got kicked out with dishonorable discharge due to smoking pot would have a case to get that changed to a other then or Honorable dishcharge and may even get to come back in the military..

Not at all surprised. I've seen cops lose their jobs because they peed hot. But I seriously doubt the flood gates would open up and all the ships at sea would be filled with formerly rejected stoners. Any employer, including the Federal government, reserves the right to say, "Legal or not, our employees can't do it. You want to take the job, then you agree not to smoke weed." Legal or not, I don't want someone who spent the weekend with his or her face stuck to a bong in control of a nuclear missile on a submarine on Monday morning, or at the controls of a multi-million dollar aircraft. I haven't yet seen research data that disproves marijuana's effects on short-term memory, the ability to concentrate, coordination and reflexes. It also has an effect on the ability to judge speed, distance and reaction time.

[Squirrel]

Not at all surprised. I've seen cops lose their jobs because they peed hot. But I seriously doubt the flood gates would open up and all the ships at sea would be filled with formerly rejected stoners. Any employer, including the Federal government, reserves the right to say, "Legal or not, our employees can't do it. You want to take the job, then you agree not to smoke weed." Legal or not, I don't want someone who spent the weekend with his or her face stuck to a bong in control of a nuclear missile on a submarine on Monday morning, or at the controls of a multi-million dollar aircraft. I haven't yet seen research data that disproves marijuana's effects on short-term memory, the ability to concentrate, coordination and reflexes. It also has an effect on the ability to judge speed, distance and reaction time.

correct, speed is the more suitable substance for increased senses

[quasar34]

the government spends around $9billion fighting to keep weed of the streets, which is rediculous..

the male plants (hemp) - theres an estimated 50,000 products that can be made from it

the female plants - have medicinal uses, and can generate some serious income which we could use..

i have no problem with it, and i view it as being alot safer than alcohol

[Slow-V6]

Not at all surprised. I've seen cops lose their jobs because they peed hot. But I seriously doubt the flood gates would open up and all the ships at sea would be filled with formerly rejected stoners. Any employer, including the Federal government, reserves the right to say, "Legal or not, our employees can't do it. You want to take the job, then you agree not to smoke weed." Legal or not, I don't want someone who spent the weekend with his or her face stuck to a bong in control of a nuclear missile on a submarine on Monday morning, or at the controls of a multi-million dollar aircraft. I haven't yet seen research data that disproves marijuana's effects on short-term memory, the ability to concentrate, coordination and reflexes. It also has an effect on the ability to judge speed, distance and reaction time.


If you cant get a job in the real world as a HS dropout Stoner then the Navy would take you.. It took me and I was a hs dropout stoner.. The thing is that once I joined I havent touched another illegal drug.. Now if Pot is legalized then it will be like underage drinking in the Navy.. Everybody does it even though you signed a contract that states you would not drink until you are 21..

[Tsar]

the government spends around $9billion fighting to keep weed of the streets, which is rediculous..


Really now? That's at least 3 times greater than the whole DEA budget. Care to educate me on this figure that you have made up?

Edit* I believe that figure also exceeds FBI's entire budget.

[Squirrel]

Really now? That's at least 3 times greater than the whole DEA budget. Care to educate me on this figure that you have made up?

Edit* I believe that figure also exceeds FBI's entire budget.

maybe he's including all areas of law enforcement from local to federal, or maybe its just pro-pot propaganda, both possible

[LTb1ow]

maybe he forgot where the number came from?

[quasar34]

ehh i saw that number on a site..just found another site saying 1.3 billion, and another saying 20 billiob..anyway you put it , it is still way too much to fight something that is pretty damn harmless..

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/19/eap31.shtml - site stating 1.3 billion spent to fight war on weed

i also found an answer on chacha stating the us has spends nearly $20 billion a year to fight he war on weed - http://www.chacha.com/question/how-much-money-does-the-us-spent-fighting-marijuana-each-year

anyyyway heres an article stating that the mj game is a $113 billion a year industry in the US..and thats just fromn the female plants.. i couldnt imagine how much more the use of male plants would generate. http://www.alternet.org/drugs/64465/

[NastyEllEssWon]

you can shout this from the rooftops but its like rolling a grenade uphill. ignorance and stubborn people rule in america.

[WildBillyT]

ehh i saw that number on a site..just found another site saying 1.3 billion, and another saying 20 billiob..anyway you put it , it is still way too much to fight something that is pretty damn harmless..

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/19/eap31.shtml - site stating 1.3 billion spent to fight war on weed

i also found an answer on chacha stating the us has spends nearly $20 billion a year to fight he war on weed - http://www.chacha.com/question/how-much-money-does-the-us-spent-fighting-marijuana-each-year

anyyyway heres an article stating that the mj game is a $113 billion a year industry in the US..and thats just fromn the female plants.. i couldnt imagine how much more the use of male plants would generate. http://www.alternet.org/drugs/64465/

A Q&A site for statistics?? They could say anything! Those facts are not checked.

[LTb1ow]

you can shout this from the rooftops but its like rolling a grenade uphill. ignorance and stubborn people rule in america.

How is it ignorance?

Majority of people are looking to get this legalized to abuse a recreational drug legally. And as already stated, if you give a mouse a cookie......


I mean hell, weed is lame, I find pcp to give me less pain, so let's legalize that.

Society is degrading.
Bah.

[NastyEllEssWon]

How is it ignorance?

Majority of people are looking to get this legalized to abuse a recreational drug legally. And as already stated, if you give a mouse a cookie......


I mean hell, weed is lame, I find pcp to give me less pain, so let's legalize that.

Society is degrading.
Bah.




because it all boils down to the lesser of two evils. as said before, medicine, industry and saving money and resources prosecuting non violent ''offenders''. marijuana was only illegalized because it was poised to take over as the major industry in america...including big oil. the government ran a propaganda (yes your fav word) campaign against it and simple minded people like you believe their rederick.



i find this all amusing that im arguing this with someone who has no problem tanking a few beers then driving home. :nod:

[Squirrel]

because it all boils down to the lesser of two evils. as said before, medicine, industry and saving money and resources prosecuting non violent ''offenders''. marijuana was only illegalized because it was poised to take over as the major industry in america...including big oil. the government ran a propaganda (yes your fav word) campaign against it and simple minded people like you believe their rederick.



i find this all amusing that im arguing this with someone who has no problem tanking a few beers then driving home. :nod:

rhetoric*.... otherwise, good arguement

[Frosty]

So what if people want it legalized so they can use it for recreational purposes? What's the big deal? Is it any worse than alcohol? IMO, no it's not. The only big issue I have is how can an officer tell if someone is truly under the influence? What kind of guidelines would there be for legal limits(like how we have BAC levels)? Once that gets sorted out legalize it. Just because you smoke up doesn't mean you're some drain on society or some burnt out stoner...hell I know people that use it and make more $$(legally lol) than most people on the board...everything in moderation.

Tsar brought up the slippery slope argument and he's right to a point but IMO weed isn't nearly as dangerous as some of the heavier drugs out there so I don't know if there would be a big push to legalize meth, crack, etc.

I don't know, I just don't see the big deal about it, while it's not exactly my thing I see it no worse than alcohol, maybe even the lesser of the two.

[NastyEllEssWon]

that part is the tough part. i also believe it would fall under the same parameters it does now. there is no real ''test'' to find out if someone is under the influence of marijuana, however a series of field tests and judgement call by the officer is usually how it goes, and probably would go. there is a saliva test but it would prove inaccurate because thc in your saliva lasts for 12 hours at the least.


either way id like to think that a few field tests, checking for dilation of the pupils would still be used.


thanks squirrel i knew it was spelled wrong when i typed it. couldnt find the correct spelling. :nod:

[LTb1ow]

Still do not see the need to legalize it, de criminalize? Yes. Use for medical purpose? Yes.

Allow it to be like alcohol? No.

[JL8Jeff]

That's kind of what I was referring to that you can't use alcohol as an arguing point because that shouldn't be legal either. But regarding the "how do you measure" the legal limit of mj you would also need to create a new scenario that combines an alcohol limit and mj limit together. So that really opens up a can of worms. Using both substances at the same time would change the existing alcohol limit. And it would probably take years for them to test and find the limit of mj level. But I'm sure they would have no problem finding volunteers to figure out the limit! :lol:

[Frosty]

Allow it to be like alcohol? No.

Why not?

Jeff, I agree, alcohol should be illegal too but we see how well prohibition worked out lol. Check that, GOOD alcohol should be legal, garbage stuff like beer and bottom shelf liquor should be banned. Natty Light can still be legal for the broke college kids. :rofl:

[LTb1ow]

Why not?

Jeff, I agree, alcohol should be illegal too but we see how well prohibition worked out lol. Check that, GOOD alcohol should be legal, garbage stuff like beer and bottom shelf liquor should be banned. Natty Light can still be legal for the broke college kids. :rofl:

Cause alcohol is a lousy thing to have legal as is, why add more stuff to the list.

[Slow-V6]

They are trying to make it illegal to smoke cigs in public and now what happens if it is legal to smoke weed in public? What about second hand Highs from pot??

I fix the machines that test you for drugs and there is a set number that if you have more then XXX ng's in your urine then you pop positive, If you test less then XXX then you test negative. That could be a scale for cops to use..

So why is Pot illegal if its not a bad drug?? Why is this drug illegal and drugs like caffine, and tobacco are not??

[Tru2Chevy]

Still do not see the need to legalize it, de criminalize? Yes.

Maybe I'm just having a dense moment, but what's the difference between decriminalization and legalization? I mean, if it's no longer a crime to possess / use MJ, then how would it not be legal?

They are trying to make it illegal to smoke cigs in public and now what happens if it is legal to smoke weed in public? What about second hand Highs from pot??

I am sure that if MJ was legalized that the public smoking rules would apply the same as tobacco products.

- Justin

[NastyEllEssWon]

decriminalization would bust things like possession down to a ticketable offense. the same as jaywalking basically. not enough to get thrown in jail on, but enough for the govt to waste their time and valuable resources writing tickets for.

[Tsar]

Tsar brought up the slippery slope argument and he's right to a point but IMO weed isn't nearly as dangerous as some of the heavier drugs out there so I don't know if there would be a big push to legalize meth, crack, etc.



Since you brought it up, what exactly is wrong with me smoking some meth in the privacy of my own home? Or snorting cocaine for example.

Am I hurting any 3rd party? No.

I pinky swear that I won't drive under the influence of either, and buy this substance with my own, not stolen, money.

Legalize it? Why not?

[Frosty]

They are trying to make it illegal to smoke cigs in public and now what happens if it is legal to smoke weed in public? What about second hand Highs from pot??


Dude are you serious? Can you drink in public? In most areas no, you can't...why could you all of a sudden be able use an intoxicating drug in public once pot is legal? Pot would be more compared to alcohol laws/restrictions, not cigarettes. Your point is a huge reach.

Since you brought it up, what exactly is wrong with me smoking some meth in the privacy of my own home? Or snorting cocaine for example.

Am I hurting any 3rd party? No.

I pinky swear that I won't drive under the influence of either, and buy this substance with my own, not stolen, money.

Legalize it? Why not?

Personally, what people do in their own home really IS none of my business(that's the Libertarian in me) but crack, meth, coke,etc is damn near instantly addictive regardless if people like it. There isn't enough evidence to prove that MJ is actually addictive in itself....hell some studies have shown caffeine is more addictive.

So that's why the drugs I listed shouldn't be legalized.

[Slow-V6]

Dude are you serious? Can you drink in public? In most areas no, you can't...why could you all of a sudden be able use an intoxicating drug once pot is legal? Pot would be more compared to alcohol laws/restrictions, not cigarettes. Your point is a huge reach.

.



Because it is real hard to make a joint look like a cigarette.. If they do make it legal then you will probably be able to go buy a pack of MJ cigarettes at the stores anyways..

I can drink outside in my apartment complex, and pretty much anywere I want as long as its in a not so obvious container.. Hell at Fuddruckers car shows on Fridays you can drink outside while walking around the parking lot..

[Frosty]

You will probably be able to buy MJ cigarettes? Says who? You're hung up on this whole "you'll be able to go to Wawa and buy weed" without a single shred of evidence to back up that type of claim.

I do get the 2nd hand stuff though, it's a good point. I don't know, you see how California handles it and see counties like Amsterdam handle it and it just doesn't appear to be that big of a deal.

[Tsar]

Dude are you serious? Can you drink in public? In most areas no, you can't...why could you all of a sudden be able use an intoxicating drug in public once pot is legal? Pot would be more compared to alcohol laws/restrictions, not cigarettes. Your point is a huge reach.



Personally, what people do in their own home really IS none of my business(that's the Libertarian in me) but crack, meth, coke,etc is damn near instantly addictive regardless if people like it. There isn't enough evidence to prove that MJ is actually addictive in itself....hell some studies have shown caffeine is more addictive.

So that's why the drugs I listed shouldn't be legalized.

Well I can drink in public in Vegas, hell I can buy a 100oz drink and walk around anywhere in that mofo. I can also smoke at the same time, or in a casino surrounded by 11ty billion people.

It's addictive? So what? I'm doing it in my home! It's my castle - I can do anything here, right?! Some people say that fast food is addictive! and it's legal last time I checked. I want cocaine and meth legalized!

I'm just trying to be difficult. :lol:

[Frosty]

I know you are lol...it's something you're good at. :D :D: :D

[BonzoHansen]

Well I can drink in public in Vegas, hell I can buy a 100oz drink and walk around anywhere in that mofo. I can also smoke at the same time, or in a casino surrounded by 11ty billion people.

It's addictive? So what? I'm doing it in my home! It's my castle - I can do anything here, right?! Some people say that fast food is addictive! and it's legal last time I checked. I want cocaine and meth legalized!

I'm just trying to be difficult. :lol:

McMeth :lol:

[Slow-V6]

You will probably be able to buy MJ cigarettes? Says who? You're hung up on this whole "you'll be able to go to Wawa and buy weed" without a single shred of evidence to back up that type of claim.

I do get the 2nd hand stuff though, it's a good point. I don't know, you see how California handles it and see counties like Amsterdam handle it and it just doesn't appear to be that big of a deal.


You compare MJ to alcholol and I have proven that you can buy alcholol in WaWa's.. If you compare MJ to Alcholol then why wouldnt you be able to buy MJ in WaWa's if it is legal just like alcholol??

Just saw on the news that a city in NJ made it illegal to smoke in parks and playgrounds.. Pretty soon you wont be able to smoke outside at all..

[Squirrel]

Well I can drink in public in Vegas, hell I can buy a 100oz drink and walk around anywhere in that mofo.

i got hammered on the train to the yankees game yesterday, so i approve of DIP


Just saw on the news that a city in NJ made it illegal to smoke in parks and playgrounds.. Pretty soon you wont be able to smoke outside at all..

"You can't smoke on Earf no mo, you gonna have to leave Earf to have a square now." - Cedric the Entertainer

[NastyEllEssWon]

the whole point is that yes you can buy alcohol in convenience stores....but thats only beer or wine. you have to go to a special store to buy the hard liquor, they dont just sell it anywhere. i would suspect that MJ would take the likes of liquor and other countries that sell mary jane, where you can buy it in designated stores, government regulated by licenses and all types of red tape.


i have a ton of experience with the marijuana dispensaries in california. they are NON profit, government regulated and few and far between. we used to have to drive to san fransisco from san jose, visit one of the 5 dispensaries in the city, show id, verification and then follow a specific set of rules to transport it...which are very similar to how alcohol is supposed to be transported.

[Frosty]

You compare MJ to alcholol and I have proven that you can buy alcholol in WaWa's.. If you compare MJ to Alcholol then why wouldnt you be able to buy MJ in WaWa's if it is legal just like alcholol??

Just saw on the news that a city in NJ made it illegal to smoke in parks and playgrounds.. Pretty soon you wont be able to smoke outside at all..

I've already spelled it out

the whole point is that yes you can buy alcohol in convenience stores....but thats only beer or wine. you have to go to a special store to buy the hard liquor, they dont just sell it anywhere. i would suspect that MJ would take the likes of liquor and other countries that sell mary jane, where you can buy it in designated stores, government regulated by licenses and all types of red tape.


i have a ton of experience with the marijuana dispensaries in california. they are NON profit, government regulated and few and far between. we used to have to drive to san fransisco from san jose, visit one of the 5 dispensaries in the city, show id, verification and then follow a specific set of rules to transport it...which are very similar to how alcohol is supposed to be transported.

But he spelled it out better.

So basically stop talking out of your ass and making up stuff. ;)

[Slow-V6]

I've already spelled it out



But he spelled it out better.

So basically stop talking out of your ass and making up stuff. ;)



What am I making up?? That perhaps one day "IF" MJ is legalized it "could" be sold in 7/11's and convience stores?? Why do I need proof when its not even legal yet?? Show me proof that it wont be sold in Convience stores??

[NastyEllEssWon]

my proof that it wont be sold in convenience stores is the fact that you cant buy hard liquor in convenience stores. also america would look at other countries that sell legal marijuana and take a look at what works in controlling and regulating it effectively. currently the medicinal marijuana dispensaries in america are modeled after amsterdams own coffee shops...and would likely take another page from that book.

[Slow-V6]

my proof that it wont be sold in convenience stores is the fact that you cant buy hard liquor in convenience stores. also america would look at other countries that sell legal marijuana and take a look at what works in controlling and regulating it effectively. currently the medicinal marijuana dispensaries in america are modeled after amsterdams own coffee shops...and would likely take another page from that book.


That makes sense since this country follows other countrys ways of life..

[BigAls87Z28]

See, this is why if you are a fan of making MJ legal, you do not bring up the "oh, but its better/just as bad as *insert other bad thing* to use!" argument because it just enters the slippery slope.

If you want to legalize it, you push the $$$ factor or even the ecologocial factor, not the "its better than meth" argument.

[NastyEllEssWon]

See, this is why if you are a fan of making MJ legal, you do not bring up the "oh, but its better/just as bad as *insert other bad thing* to use!" argument because it just enters the slippery slope.

If you want to legalize it, you push the $$$ factor or even the ecologocial factor, not the "its better than meth" argument.



this is why you cant have this debate, because you get the hard heads that ignore all the good things and focus on whatever they want to say and make all sorts of comparisons and get off track forgetting the original argument of economical repair and only remember what they said about meth and coke.

[LTb1ow]

this is why you cant have this debate, because you get the hard heads that ignore all the good things and focus on whatever they want to say and make all sorts of comparisons and get off track forgetting the original argument of economical repair and only remember what they said about meth and coke.

Does a fiend need his fix? :rofl:

Still do not feel comfortable with it being fully legalized as like alcohol. Dunno why. Guess a lifetime of anti drug propaganda did work?

[BigAls87Z28]

Anyone could make the argument to legalize anything, crack, guns, marrying animals, whatever.
Unlike crack, meth, etc etc, MJ is just more acceptable, easier to implement, and is home grown here in the US already, and is very safe overall.

[LTb1ow]

Anyone could make the argument to legalize anything, crack, guns, marrying animals, whatever.
Unlike crack, meth, etc etc, MJ is just more acceptable, easier to implement, and is home grown here in the US already, and is very safe overall.

So why can't I make steroids in my house?

Not harming anyone, and, I am sure they could advertise on the Jersey Shore show with great results.

Eh?

[BigAls87Z28]

So why can't I make steroids in my house?

Not harming anyone, and, I am sure they could advertise on the Jersey Shore show with great results.

Eh?

There are lots of people that make supplements in their home. I don't think that the FDA gets involved in it at all either.
Steroids though, I believe, do have to go through the FDA. If you can make it in your house, pass the FDA, knock yourself out.

[Squirrel]

So why can't I make steroids in my house?

Not harming anyone, and, I am sure they could advertise on the Jersey Shore show with great results.

Eh?

you can, for personal use
hell, i can hypothetically buy my PCT from a research chemical company.... hypothetically:shifty:

[LTb1ow]

you can, for personal use
hell, i can hypothetically buy my PCT from a research chemical company.... hypothetically:shifty:

Orly?


:shifty: brb....

[Slow-V6]

See, this is why if you are a fan of making MJ legal, you do not bring up the "oh, but its better/just as bad as *insert other bad thing* to use!" argument because it just enters the slippery slope.

.

Anyone could make the argument to legalize anything, crack, guns, marrying animals, whatever.
Unlike crack, meth, etc etc, MJ is just more acceptable, easier to implement, and is home grown here in the US already, and is very safe overall.


So I am not a fan because I said MJ is Better/or just as bad as other drugs opposed to saying MJ is more acceptable then other drugs like you did.. Got it.. Thanks for clearing that up..


How about we stop fighting everybody elses war and that should help with the countries budget.. Instead of legalizing an illegal drug to help with our nations money issue..

I was stationed on 3 different aircraft carrier while in the Navy. You know it costs around 50,000 a day to keep a carrier out to sea... There are 8 carriers stationd in Norfolk VA and we went down to Norfolk for Easter weekend and there was 1 Carrier in port and the rest of the 7 out to sea... So for Easter Sunday alone the US Goverment spent around 350,000 for 1 day to have 7 ships out to sea.. Thats not including the rest of the battle group as there are 8-10 other ships that deploy with each carrier... Who know what it costs the US to keep those ships running each day..

Make MJ legal for Medication is fine, but to legalize it in hopes of helping for saving our economy is not the answer when our Armed forces are deployed in how many countries now fighting how many other countries civil wars??? How many nations helped us during our cival war??

[LTb1ow]

Legalize MJ, disregard armed forces... acquire pushover lame stoner nation status!

Huzzzah.

[WildBillyT]

Legalize MJ, disregard armed forces... acquire pushover lame stoner nation status!

Huzzzah.

If I wanted to live in Canada I'd move there.

[NastyEllEssWon]

So I am not a fan because I said MJ is Better/or just as bad as other drugs opposed to saying MJ is more acceptable then other drugs like you did.. Got it.. Thanks for clearing that up..


How about we stop fighting everybody elses war and that should help with the countries budget.. Instead of legalizing an illegal drug to help with our nations money issue..

I was stationed on 3 different aircraft carrier while in the Navy. You know it costs around 50,000 a day to keep a carrier out to sea... There are 8 carriers stationd in Norfolk VA and we went down to Norfolk for Easter weekend and there was 1 Carrier in port and the rest of the 7 out to sea... So for Easter Sunday alone the US Goverment spent around 350,000 for 1 day to have 7 ships out to sea.. Thats not including the rest of the battle group as there are 8-10 other ships that deploy with each carrier... Who know what it costs the US to keep those ships running each day..

Make MJ legal for Medication is fine, but to legalize it in hopes of helping for saving our economy is not the answer when our Armed forces are deployed in how many countries now fighting how many other countries civil wars??? How many nations helped us during our cival war??




marijuana is not a drug. its a naturally occurring plant. there is nothing done to the marijuana to make it get you high. its just a plant nothing more nothing else.

if you want to read about why marijuana is illegal read a book called The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herrer (rip). it goes into the whole deal. its only illegal because big oil and big wigs stood to lose a ton of money from all the products that marijuana could be made into cheaply, efficiently and more money would go to the farmers who grew it because of its low cost overhead to grow it.

[Frosty]

If I wanted to live in Canada I'd move there.

You'd have to say "eh" after every sentence and start loving hockey and maple syrup....and Celine Dion....you can't handle it. :mrgreen:

oh and Bryan Adams too.

[Slow-V6]

Well Its Classified as a drug as my machines that do Drug testing test for it.. Cannabinoids I believe is what it is called. It might be all natual but its still considered a drug..

[NastyEllEssWon]

Well Its Classified as a drug as my machines that do Drug testing test for it.. Cannabinoids I believe is what it is called. It might be all natual but its still considered a drug..




its only a drug because the government says it is to line the pockets of the very ones you guys are complaining about when gas prices go up. you can turn a blind eye all you want, but when you complain about big oil companies but continue to support the illegalization of marijuana all youre doing is lining the pockets of the people you are trying to fight.

right now you just need to weigh it on the scales of justice. is keeping marijuana illegal and big wigs rich worth it to keep americas industry down in the dumps, or would you rather let a few non violent offenders out of jail, save money locking them up, give medicine to those that need it and revitalize a dying industry in america.


when you think about it like that the only reason you really want marijuana illegal is because of a few people getting high? its not like mj use will rise, it will stay the same, only thing that would change is that you cant fault anyone for using it after that.

[LTb1ow]

I do not see how abuse levels will not rise once it becomes legal for it to be had.

[Frosty]

I do not see how abuse levels will not rise once it becomes legal for it to be had.

Will you start smoking if it was legal? No? Neither would most people(myself included).

[WiMiMc]

if you want to read about why marijuana is illegal read a book called The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herrer (rip). it goes into the whole deal. its only illegal because big oil and big wigs stood to lose a ton of money from all the products that marijuana could be made into cheaply, efficiently and more money would go to the farmers who grew it because of its low cost overhead to grow it.

reminds me of the Family Guy episode where Brian leads that big campaign about it, and yeah he mentions that hemp could have been a contender to replace paper among other things.

[Slow-V6]

its only a drug because the government says it is to line the pockets of the very ones you guys are complaining about when gas prices go up. you can turn a blind eye all you want, but when you complain about big oil companies but continue to support the illegalization of marijuana all youre doing is lining the pockets of the people you are trying to fight.

right now you just need to weigh it on the scales of justice. is keeping marijuana illegal and big wigs rich worth it to keep americas industry down in the dumps, or would you rather let a few non violent offenders out of jail, save money locking them up, give medicine to those that need it and revitalize a dying industry in america.


when you think about it like that the only reason you really want marijuana illegal is because of a few people getting high? its not like mj use will rise, it will stay the same, only thing that would change is that you cant fault anyone for using it after that.

I have not complained about Oil Prices at all.. I complained about the use of our Armed Forces.. If you Legalize MJ and Tax it that will help the economy. But How many contries ,comparable to the USA in living, have MJ legal so you can buy it at a smoke shop or what not and smoke it legally for enjoyment?? My guess would be not to many.. Why is that??

Now lets compare the US industry vrs the World.. You are saying that the US is in the bottom or dumps compared to the rest of the world.. I bet the us is a lot better then that Vrs the world..

[Slow-V6]

Will you start smoking if it was legal? No? Neither would most people(myself included).

I would.. Being high is more fun then being drunk.. Since MJ is natual and not bad for you then why not?? It will be legal right? What would be the purpose of legalizing it if most people wont smoke it??

[LTb1ow]

Will you start smoking if it was legal? No? Neither would most people(myself included).

Semi paradigm shift, once a few generations are accustomed to having it be legal, it will become common nature to partake in.

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
-Planck

/silly scientific

[NastyEllEssWon]

I do not see how abuse levels will not rise once it becomes legal for it to be had.





wanna know a fun fact? alcohol use actually rose during the prohibition era.

By the greatest majority of indicators, the biggest drops in alcohol consumption and alcohol problems actually came before national prohibition went into effect. Those drops continued for about the first two years of Prohibition and then alcohol consumption began to rise. By 1926, most of the problems were worse than they had been before Prohibition went into effect and there were a number of new problems -- such as a drinking epidemic among children -- that had not been there before.


why was this? because since it wasnt government regulated they were actually buying stronger booze at cheaper prices than what the government was selling.

if mj was government regulated they would be able to control the quality of the marijuana sold.

would you be interested in this if the average person was available to buy mid grade marijuana saving the high thc count marijuana for the medicinal patients???

[NastyEllEssWon]

I would.. Being high is more fun then being drunk.. Since MJ is natual and not bad for you then why not?? It will be legal right? What would be the purpose of legalizing it if most people wont smoke it??




havent you been reading. were supporting marijuana legalization not only for the people that want to smoke it, but for the ensuing industry capabilities it offers on the hemp side of things. go look up what hemp can be made into. its amazing.

[Slow-V6]

wanna know a fun fact? alcohol use actually rose during the prohibition era.




why was this? because since it wasnt government regulated they were actually buying stronger booze at cheaper prices than what the government was selling.

if mj was government regulated they would be able to control the quality of the marijuana sold.

would you be interested in this if the average person was available to buy mid grade marijuana saving the high thc count marijuana for the medicinal patients???

But you said it was all natual right?? Now you are messing with MJ by adding or subtracting Additives to make it less potent.. How would that be good??

[Squirrel]

But How many contries ,comparable to the USA in living, have MJ legal so you can buy it at a smoke shop or what not and smoke it legally for enjoyment?? My guess would be not to many.. Why is that??

it seems that the US is in the more lax side of the countries that are actually relevant to world affairs in this discussion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

[LTb1ow]

havent you been reading. were supporting marijuana legalization not only for the people that want to smoke it, but for the ensuing industry capabilities it offers on the hemp side of things. go look up what hemp can be made into. its amazing.

You are kidding right?

Look at the tobacco industry.. to make the most money, of course MJ companies would want to push their drugs onto people to smoke/become addicted/spend tons of money/die of cancer.

Logically smoke to get cancer, smoke to avoid cancer pain?

full circle of winning for MJ companies.

[Frosty]

Jeff, good for you.

Matt: It's funny, Amsterdam has less drug related crime, has less cases of overdoses and has less of a drug problem than here, the morally righteous in your face high horse society.

I still don't see what the big deal is, the industry would be heavily regulated, heavily monitored so it's not like you're gonna be able to go to Wawa and buy a pound of the ****.

The amount of people in jail or having a record for simple possession is ridiculous(and I get it, right now the stuff is illegal and they broke the law).

I have another angle to take here, do you think jail systems WANT MJ to be legal? Hell no, without inmates people have no jobs, private corporations that run the jails(in some states and counties) would lose a ****-ton of revenue.

[LTb1ow]

less violent crime due to a society to weak/stoned/lame to do much of anything. Lets all start drinking soy milk, eating veggie burgers, and sing kumbaya.

/sarcasm

[Frosty]

It's soy juice, you can't milk a damn soy plant!

[NastyEllEssWon]

less violent crime due to a society to weak/stoned/lame to do much of anything. Lets all start drinking soy milk, eating veggie burgers, and sing kumbaya.

/sarcasm




yeah because a bunch of drunks too sloppy to do anything sitting around watching ufc, television programs on tv of people working while theyre home during the day (aka dirty jobs) and singing freebird with their lighter in the air is any better.

[Frosty]

I thought they sing Slow Ride by Foghat.

[LTb1ow]

yeah because a bunch of drunks too sloppy to do anything sitting around watching ufc, television programs on tv of people working while theyre home during the day (aka dirty jobs) and singing freebird with their lighter in the air is any better.

Dunno why you keep harping on this, have it mentioned that at all in this thread? Fairly certain I mentioned that alcohol should not be legal as is...

So, what do studies show on the effect of smoking on lung function and brain operations?

(Yes I know a vap will do it with little smoke, but assume mass peoples here)

[Slow-V6]

Japan has less crime rate then the US as well as Canada probably.. So what? How many looters did you see after the Earthquake in Japan?? How many looters you see after Hurricane Katrina?? Why is that??? Its illegal to smoke MJ in Japan I believe so we cant blame that on Illegal Drug use..

[Frosty]

What are you talking about? :rofl: What does the earthquake and Katrina have to do with anything?

[LTb1ow]

What are you talking about? :rofl: What does the earthquake and Katrina have to do with MJ and drug crime?

Japan and America both have MJ as illegal.

During times of crisis, Americans are looters, Japanese people are not.

You argued that Amsterdam had low crime rates implied from a legalized MJ usage.

I think that was where he was going.

That being said, recent studies I think have shown the level of testosterone in males in Japan is at all time lows...:lol:

[NastyEllEssWon]

What are you talking about? :rofl: What does the earthquake and Katrina have to do with anything?



it was caused by marijuana.



and matt. you dont have to smoke marijuana. you can also bake it into delicious pound cakes and other awesome foods. its actually a more safe and higher concentrated delivery method.

[Frosty]

I said drug-related crimes...which have zero to do with an earthquake and a hurricane. :rofl:

[Slow-V6]

WTF are you talking about? :rofl: What does the earthquake and Katrina have to do with MJ and drug crime?

There is more to crime then drug use is what I am talking about.. You never mentiond Drug crime you said Violent crime and looting someones house and beating them up to get into there house after a disaster is in my book a violent crime..

[LTb1ow]

it was caused by marijuana.



and matt. you dont have to smoke marijuana. you can also bake it into delicious pound cakes and other awesome foods. its actually a more safe and higher concentrated delivery method.

I said drug-related crimes...which have zero to do with an earthquake and a hurricane. :rofl:

See my post above

And Jay, the drug is still entering ones body, so I still waiting to hear its affects on the body.

[NastyEllEssWon]

There is more to crime then drug use is what I am talking about.. You never mentiond Drug crime you said Violent crime and looting someones house and beating them up to get into there house after a disaster is in my book a violent crime..




i still dont get what that has to do with this conversation.

[Frosty]

There is more to crime then drug use is what I am talking about.. You never mentiond Drug crime you said Violent crime and looting someones house and beating them up to get into there house after a disaster is in my book a violent crime..

Matt: It's funny, Amsterdam has less drug related crime, has less cases of overdoses and has less of a drug problem than here, the morally righteous in your face high horse society.



Thanks for playing. You can't even keep a debate straight in your own head. I'm done with this one lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

See my post above

And Jay, the drug is still entering ones body, so I still waiting to hear its affects on the body.





thc isnt dangerous, the carcinogens from smoking are.

[WildBillyT]

Jeff, good for you.

Matt: It's funny, Amsterdam has less drug related crime, has less cases of overdoses and has less of a drug problem than here, the morally righteous in your face high horse society.

I still don't see what the big deal is, the industry would be heavily regulated, heavily monitored so it's not like you're gonna be able to go to Wawa and buy a pound of the ****.

The amount of people in jail or having a record for simple possession is ridiculous(and I get it, right now the stuff is illegal and they broke the law).

I have another angle to take here, do you think jail systems WANT MJ to be legal? Hell no, without inmates people have no jobs, private corporations that run the jails(in some states and counties) would lose a ****-ton of revenue.

I think a big part of it is related to how much we are dependent on tobacco $$ now in addition to how much that industry has done for the US in the past.

Phillip Morris is ****ing huge. Cream cheese on your bagel? PM product. Cadbury cream egg for Easter? Also PM. Their parent company, Altria, had a revenue of 23.6 billion in 2009. That's 2 billion more than the budget of the state of South Carolina and a lot of others. Needless to say, their words carry a lot of weight. Even if they were given 100% rights to MJ distribution the numbers would not be there.

[Slow-V6]

Is it possible the reason why there is so much crime in the US is because Americans are more violent then other countries Like the Netherlands, Japan, and Canada and that you have 8 million people living in NJ which is 130miles by 40miles?? If so how would legalizing MJ help that out??

[Frosty]

Is it possible the reason why there is so much crime in the US is because Americans are more violent then other countries Like the Netherlands, Japan, and Canada and that you have 8 million people living in NJ which is 130miles by 40miles?? If so how would legalizing MJ help that out??

Jesus Christ on a pogo-stick, would you read what I highlighted, I SAID DRUG RELATED CRIMES....****. :rofl:

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Tzzo1M73hYM/TMHDTwQu1vI/AAAAAAAABuE/2Wkf_p7xtQk/s1600/GodzillaFacePalm.jpg

[LTb1ow]

"Don't you want to be free and men? Don't you even understand what manhood and freedom are?"

My fears, succinctly put by a great book.

[NastyEllEssWon]

drug related crime is something that goes down like this slow.


I gave you 500 bucks, you shorted me an ounce.

Deal with it.

BANG


a scenario that could have been avoided if the govt was the one selling you the marijuana at a dispensary

[LTb1ow]

drug related crime is something that goes down like this slow.


I gave you 500 bucks, you shorted me an ounce.

Deal with it.

BANG


a scenario that could have been avoided if the govt was the one selling you the marijuana at a dispensary

eh, it also is people on much more addicting drugs robbing stores/homes/people with guns/knives to get money to pay for a fix...

Drug dealers killing drug users is no issue with me. Or vice versa.

[Frosty]

drug related crime is something that goes down like this slow.


I gave you 500 bucks, you shorted me an ounce.

Deal with it.

BANG


a scenario that could have been avoided if the govt was the one selling you the marijuana at a dispensary

But what if there was a massive earthquake then a hurricane washed it all away? THEN what Mr. Know It All???? :D

[NastyEllEssWon]

eh, it also is people on much more addicting drugs robbing stores/homes/people with guns/knives to get money to pay for a fix...

Drug dealers killing drug users is no issue with me. Or vice versa.



but thats the point. drug users and marijuana users arent one and the same. you cant compare the 35 year old father of two, looking to unwind after a stressful week by smoking a small doobie with the 19 year old crank whore giving out loosies on the corner for her next fix.

it is possible to be a marijuana user and be a productive responsible member of society. its pretty hard to do so when youre popping in the bathroom every 5 minutes to blow a few lines, pop a xanax to slow the heart pounding and then do it all over again.


hell you want to see something sad...my own mother is addicted percocets and those are terribly legal. another reason why the govt doesnt want marijuana legalize. she would be able to substitute the govt provided pain killer for a more safe, natural and non addictive one. effectively breaking her addiction and taking money out of big pharmas pocket.

[NastyEllEssWon]

But what if there was a massive earthquake then a hurricane washed it all away? THEN what Mr. Know It All???? :D




maybe everyone was looting and rioting after katrina because they wanted to smoke a joint to calm themselves down but couldnt because their stashes were wet :lol:

[LTb1ow]

"..there is always soma, delicious soma, half a gramme for a half-holiday, a gramme for a week-end, two grammes for a trip to the gorgeous East, three for a dark eternity on the moon..."

Hurray for govt sponsored drug programs.

[Slow-V6]

but thats the point. drug users and marijuana users arent one and the same. you cant compare the 35 year old father of two, looking to unwind after a stressful week by smoking a small doobie with the 19 year old crank whore giving out loosies on the corner for her next fix.

it is possible to be a marijuana user and be a productive responsible member of society. its pretty hard to do so when youre popping in the bathroom every 5 minutes to blow a few lines, pop a xanax to slow the heart pounding and then do it all over again.


hell you want to see something sad...my own mother is addicted percocets and those are terribly legal. another reason why the govt doesnt want marijuana legalize. she would be able to substitute the govt provided pain killer for a more safe, natural and non addictive one. effectively breaking her addiction and taking money out of big pharmas pocket.

I am sorry but the last thing I will do is come home from a day of work to my family and light up a Joint in front of my 4 yr old daughter to unwind!! To me that is not right.

How is MJ safe?? Are cigarettes safe?? If you were to regulate the potentcy of it, like it was talked about before, then how would it be all natural?

[Slow-V6]

Thanks for playing. You can't even keep a debate straight in your own head. I'm done with this one lol

Sorry man.. I was smoking a blunt and was a little dissoriented.. Didnt realize what I was typing..

[Tsar]

Jeff, good for you.

Matt: It's funny, Amsterdam has less drug related crime, has less cases of overdoses and has less of a drug problem than here, the morally righteous in your face high horse society.


You read that in one of those "official brochures for tourists"? Have you actually been there, or spoke to someone who has a first hand experience? I'm gonna go with a "no".

There are a crap load of ODs and junkies sitting on the corner of the street with a needle in their arm. What a great sights to see! I'm not sure if you have kids but imagine you are taking a stroll in the park with one of them and there's a dude ODing right in front of you, ahhh nice - right :lol: Considering the fact that a lot of drug offenses are just a slap on the wrist over there, cops don't even bother, so you can drop the "well you can shoot up heroine legally in the park and in US everything will be 100% legal" routine.

Funny thing about statistics, you can easily manipulate them, doh. If you look at Penn State's brochure for crimes committed (robbery, sexual assault, etc) they will all read "0" (at least they have in the past). Let's just say it isn't the case..

[Frosty]

Two different documentaries and 3 different people that HAVE been there, including my mother and stepfather. Next. Is that good enough? Probably not.

Also, what does shooting up heroin in a US park have to do with anything? Their attitude about drugs over there is completely different over there. They actually HELP people get off of the hardcore **** instead of just throwing them in jail and throwing away the key like we do here. But we're getting off topic, shooting up heroin in a US park is completely irrelevant.

[Tsar]

Two different documentaries and 3 different people that HAVE been there, including my mother and stepfather. Next. Is that good enough? Probably not.

Also, what does shooting up heroin in a US park have to do with anything? Their attitude about drugs over there is completely different over there. They actually HELP people get off of the hardcore **** instead of just throwing them in jail and throwing away the key like we do here.
Alright, I guess there is no drug problem in Amsterdam :lol:

Well if you are cool with taking a stroll in the park surrounded by bunch of junkies then I guess not a damn thing. You can't help a junkie unless they want help, and if they want help they can get it here. There are plenty of hand out available. Old Russia had the best policy of dealing with druggies.

[Frosty]

I never said there wasn't, where did I ever say that?

I said that it's ironic they have LESS of a drug problem with more drugs being legal. Follow along :rofl:

[Tsar]

I never said there wasn't, where did I ever say that?

I said that it's ironic they have LESS of a drug problem with more drugs being legal. Follow along :rofl:
They do not have less of a problem, maybe by "recorded" statistics wise but the problem is there and it's pretty big. Tell your parents to get off the sight seeing tours.

And last time I checked even if the drugs are legal, you still gotta pay for them. If you have a junkie that can't hold down a job I'm sure he will just quit and never use again.. Or maybe I should give him a pat on the back and feel sorry for him. Right.

[BigAls87Z28]

They aren't pot junkies...so really, what changes from today? Go to Baltimore much? That place is wall to wall homeless junkies running around.
So how does making pot legal have to do with junkies lying around parks, which they already do in most major cities already?

[Tsar]

They aren't pot junkies...so really, what changes from today? Go to Baltimore much? That place is wall to wall homeless junkies running around.
So how does making pot legal have to do with junkies lying around parks, which they already do in most major cities already?
Re-read the post I quoted then get back to me.

Also look up swiss experiment with laxing the laws around drugs - "Platzspitz", let me know how that went and what was the result. Did crime go up in surrounding areas? Did drug traffic/use increase or decrease?

Kthx.

P.S. the whole "our crime rate is higher than theirs" argument is pointless. You can substitute anything in there and it will still be true. Ex: Amsterdam has a higher air quality then NYC, because of that their crime is lower.. Good luck proving that statement wrong. There is no true indicator of WHY their crime rate is lower.

[BigAls87Z28]

Re-read the post I quoted then get back to me.

Also look up swiss experiment with laxing the laws around drugs - "Platzspitz", let me know how that went and what was the result. Did crime go up in surrounding areas? Did drug traffic/use increase or decrease?

Kthx.

P.S. the whole "our crime rate is higher than theirs" argument is pointless. You can substitute anything in there and it will still be true. Ex: Amsterdam has a higher air quality then NYC, because of that their crime is lower.. Good luck proving that statement wrong. There is no true indicator of WHY their crime rate is lower.


Im not making any argument about crime rates or anything. You said that they have a lot of junkies in the streets, needles in arm because or lax drug laws, correct?
Do you not see that here in the US? Saying that if we loosen up making pot legal means that there will be droves of people lying out in the street, needle in arm, in a pool of their own excrement makes no sense to me.

edit: ahh ok. Not pot, but drugs overall. Yeah, not a fan of letting all drugs off the hook.

[Tsar]

Fun tidbit I found.

Consequently, health officials estimate that Amsterdam has 7,000 addicts, 20% of whom are foreigners.58 These addicts are responsible for 80% of all property crime in the city, thus necessitating that Amsterdam maintain a police presence far greater than those of cities of comparable size in the United States.59

The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population, a higher proportion than in the United States.60 The Netherlands is the most crime-prone nation in Europe and most drug addicts live on state welfare payments and by committing crimes.61

[Tsar]

Im not making any argument about crime rates or anything. You said that they have a lot of junkies in the streets, needles in arm because or lax drug laws, correct?
Do you not see that here in the US? Saying that if we loosen up making pot legal means that there will be droves of people lying out in the street, needle in arm, in a pool of their own excrement makes no sense to me.

edit: ahh ok. Not pot, but drugs overall. Yeah, not a fan of letting all drugs off the hook.
Ok, you edited before I responded. Yea, I was talking about drugs in general, as was Frosty's post. :shrug:

[BigAls87Z28]

Fun tidbit I found.

So...nothing would change. :rofl:


btw, I was under the impression that pot is still illegal in the Amsterdam, just decriminalised.

Though technically illegal, the Netherlands decriminalised the consumption and possession of under 5g (0.18oz) of cannabis in 1976 under an official "tolerance" policy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8587576.stm

[Tsar]

So...nothing would change. :rofl:


btw, I was under the impression that pot is still illegal in the Amsterdam, just decriminalised.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8587576.stm
It's illegal, as far as I remember, but it's not enforced by the cops. What are you gonna take from a homeless junkie?

Speaking of crime rates, Sweden which has zero tolerance for drug crimes also has only 3% drug related crime recorded. Hey! Statistics are always true! Pretty sure that's lower than almighty Amsterdam. According to Frosty's argument we should then institute zero tolerance policies, no?

Stats are fun!

California decriminalized marijuana in 1976, and, within the first six months, arrests for driving under the influence of drugs rose 46 percent for adults and 71.4 percent for juveniles.[33]

[NastyEllEssWon]

I am sorry but the last thing I will do is come home from a day of work to my family and light up a Joint in front of my 4 yr old daughter to unwind!! To me that is not right.

How is MJ safe?? Are cigarettes safe?? If you were to regulate the potentcy of it, like it was talked about before, then how would it be all natural?


please point out where i said that fictional character was sitting down in front of their children getting high? on a side note...have you ever smoked a cigarette or drank a beer while your children were home (not in front)?

as for regarding the potency, not all marijuana is created equal. there is many parts to the equation.

Indica is a body high type sensation. Sativa is a head high type sensation. this is why most breeds and strains of marijuana come with a name. over the years these breeds and strains have been classified and typed as either Indica or Sativa. then what happens is through the process of cross pollination they can actually breed 50/50, 80/20...60/40, you get the hint. when you got to the medical marijuana dispensaries they list what the strain is, what type it is, and what/if it was hybrid with another strain.

not all marijuana is created equal, some has a higher thc content than others. it all depends on how and where it was grown, whether natural soil was used, the amount of nitrogen the plant was allowed to consume, when it was harvested, how long of a day/night cycle the plant was grown on and whether or not the buds of the plants were allowed to fertilized by the male pollen. this is the reason some people prefer soil with bat guana (high in nitrogen) and some people prefer to grow without soil using hydroponics and time released grow food.

Fun tidbit I found.



keyword. addicts. not possible with marijuana. www.tryagain.com/nope.avi

[Tsar]

keyword. addicts. not possible with marijuana. www.tryagain.com/nope.avi

Is that your way of saying that a pothead will never commit a crime? Or use other drugs along with smoking a joint? :lol:

[NastyEllEssWon]

Is that your way of saying that a pothead will never commit a crime? Or use other drugs along with smoking a joint? :lol:



not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.

[sweetbmxrider]

Isn't it switzerland that runs free clinics for herion addicts? That seemed to help clean up the streets and less oding too. Not quoting anything, just recalling.

[Tsar]

not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.
I doubt Netherlands officials included caffeine abusers in their "addicts" statistics.. Come on now, stop grasping for straws. Also that comment was directed to Frosty due to his illusion that Amsterdam is all sunshine and puppies. Or maybe mom just lied.


Isn't it switzerland that runs free clinics for herion addicts? That seemed to help clean up the streets and less oding too. Not quoting anything, just recalling.

Are you thinking of Great Britain and their miserable failure of prescribing heroin to people?

A. Great Britain

With the report of a government commission known as the Brain Committee of 1964, England instituted a policy whereby doctors could prescribe heroin so long as they followed certain treatment criteria.47 Previously in England, doctors could prescribe heroin much like any other opiate (such as morphine). This allowed a few unscrupulous doctors to sell ungodly amounts of heroin to members of the black market.48 Consequently, it was believed that if heroin were offered at medical clinics according to stringent rules and regulations, addicts would come to these clinics to seek treatment and eventually would overcome their habit.

As of 1983, however, England began to phase out these programs of clinically supplied heroin in favor of methadone treatment.49 Why? First, according to the reputable British physician journal Lancet, the number of addicts increased 100% between 1970 and 1980.50 A disproportionate number of these new addicts were between the ages of sixteen and seventeen.51 Second, only twenty percent of all of the addicts in England belonged to the clinical programs.52 At first blush, this fact seems strange - why would addicts choose not to participate in a program wherein they get free methadone? The answer probably lies in the fact that methadone does not produce the high that heroin does. Also, addicts probably did not care for the mandatory treatment and rehabilitation facets of the clinical programs. Whatever the reason, by 1985 England had 80,000 heroin addicts, the vast majority of whom wen not in treatment.53

A third reason why England began to abolish its clinical heroin program was the fact that not only were there few people, in them, but the programs themselves did not work. According to the British Medical Journal, more addicts left the program because of criminal convictions than because of treatment.54 Fourth, even with the clinical programs, heroin addicts had a death rate twenty-six times the average population. Finally, even when the programs were in operation, Scotland Yard had to increase its narcotics division 100% in order to cope with the increased crime rate.56

To summarize, the British experience with decriminalized heroin in the clinical context was a dismal failure. When experts from British Columbia were debating whether to create a similar program, they made the following conclusions that are so important as to deserve to be quoted at length:

While some success is claimed in terms of reducing the incidence of young users, the following findings have also been noted:

1) The British approach has failed to attract a majority of addicts;

2) Many registered addicts continue to turn to illicit sources of

drugs;

3) Many registered addicts do not decrease their dosage over time;

4) Many registered addicts continue to be involved in criminal activity;

5) Many registered addicts are chronically unemployed or do not earn enough to look after themselves;

6) The death rate of registered addicts is much higher than that of the general population and may be higher than that of North American addicts;

7) Since 1960, there has been a dramatic increase in the English addict population;

8) The black market for heroin continues to thrive;

9) Law enforcement appears to remain a necessary, costly and complex control measure.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I doubt Netherlands officials included caffeine abusers in their "addicts" statistics.. Come on now, stop grasping for straws.



how come youre allowed to grab 5 straws but i cant grab a few more than you. if you wanna reach, by all means lets reach. if you look into statistics most dont include marijuana users in their lists of ''addicts''. either way, if you wanna make the gateway argument like you did before i could say the same thing about alcohol and tobacco. ive tried them before i tried marijuana...and theyre legal :wink:

[sweetbmxrider]

Nope, it was either switzerland or sweden.

[Slow-V6]

not at all. but you cant just quote all drug user statistics as an argument against marijuana. if you want to do that then you have to lump in every prescription drug user, every pot smoker, every xtasy user, every crack/coke user, every heroin user, every caffiene abuser, every steroid user, every alcohol drinker and so on in the same group.

if you want to put it like that, id guess 90 percent of america does drugs.

Out of those drugs u listed how many are legal?


I started out with drinking alcholol from my parents bar in the basement, then when that got boring we started smoking weed and when That got boring we started using other drugs.. I wont name the other drugs but it all started from using Pot.. The dealers we used sold pot and other drugs and they started selling us other drugs that were a lot more exicting then pot was.. Pot may not be addicting but it does open the door to other drug use. Then we started mixing pot with other drugs and pretty much smoking anything and it got real bad.. I quit school completely and just worked at Acme and used drugs for about 18 months.. Thank God for the Navy and a Drug waiver... Making it legal to me would not make anything different on my own experience. I would have gotten bored with it and moved up to illegal drugs..

I am not saying this happens to everyone.. Its just what happend to me and is why I am who I am now.. A lot of people will be happy with just smoking MJ but a lot of people will still want to use more..

I was stupid and was just trying what everyone else was. It wasnt my parents fault or anyone elses but myselfs..


please point out where i said that fictional character was sitting down in front of their children getting high? on a side note...have you ever smoked a cigarette or drank a beer while your children were home (not in front)?

not all marijuana is created equal, some has a higher thc content than others. it all depends on how and where it was grown, whether natural soil was used, the amount of nitrogen the plant was allowed to consume, when it was harvested, how long of a day/night cycle the plant was grown on and whether or not the buds of the plants were allowed to fertilized by the male pollen. this is the reason some people prefer soil with bat guana (high in nitrogen) and some people prefer to grow without soil using hydroponics and time released grow food.


I am going by me being a 30yr old with child and unwinding the work week would mean me coming home to my family and relaxing.. Smoked a cigarette around my kid you ask? No.. I quit smoking when we found out my wife was pregnant.. Drink?? Maybe.. I drink maybe 20 beers a year now.. Did all my drinking over seas while in the Navy.. Having 1 beer or 1 Glass of wine a day is not the same as having 1 joint or smoking 1 bowl of weed.. That Bud will probably get you F'ed up and the 1 beer that I have maybe once a week or so will do nothing..

[NastyEllEssWon]

I started out with drinking alcholol from my parents bar in the basement, then when that got boring we started smoking weed and when That got boring we started using other drugs.. I wont name the other drugs but it all started from using Pot..




really?

[Slow-V6]

[really?

I am sorry but I dont view drinking as a drug.. I remember giving a toast at my buddies wedding being the best man with my wine.. To me thats not a drug.. I couldnt see myself giving a toast with a Blunt in my hand at weddings because you say Pot is a Natual substance and should be compared with alcholol..

I would love to see this topic on capital hill with all the discussions in the house and senate.. I would buy a tickets to watch..

[NastyEllEssWon]

[

I am sorry but I dont view drinking as a drug.. I remember giving a toast at my buddies wedding being the best man with my wine.. To me thats not a drug.. I couldnt see myself giving a toast with a Blunt in my hand at weddings because you say Pot is a Natual substance and should be compared with alcholol..




thats the difference. you wouldnt hold up a blunt...a bong would make a better centerpiece/toasting device :lol:

and just because your personal opinion doesnt see alcohol as a drug doesnt mean its not. because even if you ask officer friendly. alcohol is a drug. in fact you have to do more to alcohol scientifically to make it a potent substance than you do to mary jane. you cant just walk up to a corn plant and milk it and get some moonshine can you?

[Slow-V6]

thats the difference. you wouldnt hold up a blunt...a bong would make a better centerpiece/toasting device :lol:

and just because your personal opinion doesnt see alcohol as a drug doesnt mean its not. because even if you ask officer friendly. alcohol is a drug. in fact you have to do more to alcohol scientifically to make it a potent substance than you do to mary jane. you cant just walk up to a corn plant and milk it and get some moonshine can you?



That would work better!!


Just like your personal opinion doesnt see that Pot is an illegal Drug when it is and untill it becomes legal it will remain an illegal drug. Doesnt matter if it grows or is manufactured it is still an illegal drug..

[NastyEllEssWon]

its only illegal if you dont have a prescription card bro.

[Slow-V6]

its only illegal if you dont have a prescription card bro.

Damn... I thought it was only illegal if you got caught?? At least thats the way it was 10 years ago!!

[NastyEllEssWon]

you fought the lol...and the lol won.

[Squirrel]

You read that in one of those "official brochures for tourists"? Have you actually been there, or spoke to someone who has a first hand experience? I'm gonna go with a "no".

There are a crap load of ODs and junkies sitting on the corner of the street with a needle in their arm. What a great sights to see! I'm not sure if you have kids but imagine you are taking a stroll in the park with one of them and there's a dude ODing right in front of you, ahhh nice - right :lol: Considering the fact that a lot of drug offenses are just a slap on the wrist over there, cops don't even bother, so you can drop the "well you can shoot up heroine legally in the park and in US everything will be 100% legal" routine.

Funny thing about statistics, you can easily manipulate them, doh. If you look at Penn State's brochure for crimes committed (robbery, sexual assault, etc) they will all read "0" (at least they have in the past). Let's just say it isn't the case..

my school can say the same thing, only because i've personally voted on some of those checks getting cut

[Tsar]

how come youre allowed to grab 5 straws but i cant grab a few more than you. if you wanna reach, by all means lets reach. if you look into statistics most dont include marijuana users in their lists of ''addicts''. either way, if you wanna make the gateway argument like you did before i could say the same thing about alcohol and tobacco. ive tried them before i tried marijuana...and theyre legal :wink:

Me and frosty-poo were talking about the city of Amsterdam being the land of sunshine and puppies, as per his moms visit there. I said it wasn't the case and pointed that they have plenty of drug related problems. I did not bring MJ into the argument, but if you must MJ is an illegal drug. Even in Amsterdam.. it might be punishable by a slap on the wrist but it is still considered illegal in certain quantities. Last time I checked smoking was legal, and I can order 1000 cartons of cigs and be a-ok. I can also go to a liquor store and buy a truck load of booze, they will shake my hand and we will be a-ok. Let's not confuse the two. Furthermore, people do not go to jail for caffeine addiction, at least I have not heard of such case. Feel free to dig up a case or two.

Smoking and alcohol is a gateway drug? To some sure, to some breathing is a gateway drug, and I bet in the state of California oxygen has been known to cause cancer. Let's ban the damn thing, ehh? But as I have said before, those two are perfectly legal substances. Hell, smoking a cig and driving is not even illegal! omg!

I have personally engaged in a lot of smoking (cigs) and drinking since the age of 11, I'm not an addict to either. I rarely do either of them nowadays though. Drinking hasn't caused me to say "yes" to multiple offers of trying cocaine or heroin over the course of my life, most of those were "free samples" too. You can try the gateway theory all day long on me.




Nope, it was either switzerland or sweden. Um..Swiss had this:

Switzerland

Much like Amsterdam, Switzerland until recently followed a policy of decriminalization. Indeed, a city park in the town of Zurich for many years was allowed to be a haven for drug users - police simply would ignore the problem by claiming that it was better to have all the addicts in one place rather than having them roam throughout the entire city.66 Unsurprisingly, in February of 1992 Switzerland ended this experiment with decriminalization after experiencing an unacceptable increase in use, violence, crime and health costs and consequences.67 Specifically, the number of addicts residing at the park (called Platzspitz) jumped from a few hundred in 1987 to over 20,000, by early 1992.68 Approximately 20% of these addicts were foreigners who came to Zurich to take advantage of the city's lax drug laws.69 In deciding to close the park, city officials cited the increased incidence of crime and prostitution--as Andres Oehler, a municipal spokesperson stated, "it was felt that the situation had got out of control in every sense."70

And Sweden has a zero tolerance policy for drugs.

[Tsar]

my school can say the same thing, only because i've personally voted on some of those checks getting cut

Yea stats are funny that way.. We saw over 1000 complaints of different "incidents" yet, none were recorded on the official brochures. There are no sexual assaults on campus, ever...

Speaking of stats and clever language. Dr. K. F. Gunning, president of the Dutch National Committee on Drug Prevention, cites some revealing statistics about drug abuse and crime. Cannabis use among students increased 250 percent from 1984 to 1992. During the same period, shootings rose 40 percent, car thefts increased 62 percent, and hold-ups rose 69 percent.[63]

Stats are NEVER wrong, right Frosty?

[Frosty]

Me and frosty-poo were talking about the city of Amsterdam being the land of sunshine and puppies, as per his moms visit there. I said it wasn't the case and pointed that they have plenty of drug related problems.

Dude, I NEVER said they didn't have a drug problem, I NEVER said it wasn't an issue, all I said is that it's LESS than here where just about everything under the sun is illegal. I never said it was perfect nor the land of sunshine or puppies...stop twisting what I said to make a point. I also never brought heroin or any of the sort, the discussion is about MJ, you're reaching and trying to bring up other things to help support whatever stand you're taking. Please read what I said again and actually absorb it instead of reading what you want to read then swinging the topic of discussion to left field.

[Frosty]

Stats are NEVER wrong, right Frosty?

Ughhhhh, I never said a word about stats being wrong dude, you did. See below. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Funny thing about statistics, you can easily manipulate them, doh.

Game. Set. Match. Yahtzee, Bingo, tell him what he's won Johnny. So I watch some shows/documentaries that said what I repeated and the stats or claim can easily be manipulated BUT a National Committee stat(from 20-30yrs ago I might add) can't be manipulated right?

[Tsar]

Son, you said Amsterdam has less of a DRUG problem, and DRUG related crime. MJ is included in this category (DRUG) so is heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. When I made a remark about people sitting in a park with a needle in their arm - you simply said that you saw documentaries and your mama was there and it wasn't that big of a deal, at least that's how I saw it. You even threw a little sympathy over there with the whole "lets hug a druggie" aka they help them and we throw away the key after we put those poor bastards in jail. In humor, I even offered a Russian solution.

This is what I got in response, if you recall.

Their attitude about drugs over there is completely different over there. They actually HELP people get off of the hardcore **** instead of just throwing them in jail and throwing away the key like we do here.

If they help people why is their prison population made up of of 50% of former druggies? Why are they blamed for ~80% of property crimes? Clearly, completely different attitude. Why are the mayors of towns trying to move anything that has to do with drugs to the outskirts of towns, and away from people? Another thing that indicates a "completely different attitude", right!

The tidbit about statistics, notice how I'm making fun of statistics and saying they are easily manipulated. I was supporting my position with that quote (I'll spell this out for you, stats are BS), not arguing against you. I was making fun of you with that quote though. Squirrel and I were talking about how shady campus crime reporting/statistics can be... get with the program already. Are the statistics that I posted real, most likely they are. Do they have any correlation, maybe or maybe not - no one will ever know because correlation does not imply causation as you have implied in your initial post about Amsterdam's DRUG problem (which was wrong anyways).

[Tsar]

Ughhhhh, I never said a word about stats being wrong dude, you did. See below. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:



Game. Set. Match. Yahtzee, Bingo, tell him what he's won Johnny. So I watch some shows/documentaries that said what I repeated and the stats or claim can easily be manipulated BUT a National Committee stat(from 20-30yrs ago I might add) can't be manipulated right?
I replied to this in my previous post, but are you really that slow this morning?!

[Frosty]

OK dude, you win, keep talking yourself in circles, lol. I never said it wasn't a big deal, again where did I say that? Stop with your baseless implications because you're reaching, I said LESS LESS LESS, that's IT based on some documentaries and what people I know have seen. That's it. All of you're other blah blah blah is exactly that...blah blah blah.

....and there's no reason to call someone son, it's a bit ignorant don't you think? What's next? "Boy"? :rofl:;):D

With that said you win. :)

[sweetbmxrider]

Me and frosty-poo were talking about the city of Amsterdam being the land of sunshine and puppies, as per his moms visit there. I said it wasn't the case and pointed that they have plenty of drug related problems. I did not bring MJ into the argument, but if you must MJ is an illegal drug. Even in Amsterdam.. it might be punishable by a slap on the wrist but it is still considered illegal in certain quantities. Last time I checked smoking was legal, and I can order 1000 cartons of cigs and be a-ok. I can also go to a liquor store and buy a truck load of booze, they will shake my hand and we will be a-ok. Let's not confuse the two. Furthermore, people do not go to jail for caffeine addiction, at least I have not heard of such case. Feel free to dig up a case or two.

Smoking and alcohol is a gateway drug? To some sure, to some breathing is a gateway drug, and I bet in the state of California oxygen has been known to cause cancer. Let's ban the damn thing, ehh? But as I have said before, those two are perfectly legal substances. Hell, smoking a cig and driving is not even illegal! omg!

I have personally engaged in a lot of smoking (cigs) and drinking since the age of 11, I'm not an addict to either. I rarely do either of them nowadays though. Drinking hasn't caused me to say "yes" to multiple offers of trying cocaine or heroin over the course of my life, most of those were "free samples" too. You can try the gateway theory all day long on me.




Um..Swiss had this:



And Sweden has a zero tolerance policy for drugs.

No, that's not it. Its similar to how cali has med shops for pot but its for heroin that is clean and medical grade. Just like anything else, its the user/abuser that gives it a good/bad name.

[Tsar]

OK dude, you win, keep talking yourself in circles, lol. I never said it wasn't a big deal, again where did I say that? Stop with your baseless implications because you're reaching, I said LESS LESS LESS, that's IT based on some documentaries and what people I know have seen. That's it. All of you're other blah blah blah is exactly that...blah blah blah.

....and there's no reason to call someone son, it's a bit ignorant don't you think? What's next? "Boy"? :rofl:;):D

With that said you win. :)
You might make a good politician, when you can't argue against a fact, just dismiss it due to "blah blah blah". :lol:

My argument has always been pretty straight; all national drug decriminalization programs have failed since the early 1900s, and the whole slippery slope thing.

But as long as I win, I can live with that.

Cheers,

[Frosty]

...and you'd make a good one too by spinning things. Running mates? Lets doooo it!

[BigAls87Z28]

I wonder if the fast food and junk food lobby got behind the legalizing MJ deal....so much more money there. Buy a McJoint with your big mac?

[Tsar]

...and you'd make a good one too by spinning things. Running mates? Lets doooo it!
In.

[Slow-V6]

I would vote for you guys!!

[BonzoHansen]

Can I have a cabinet position?

[Savage_Messiah]

Can I be the mascot?

[Frosty]

DONE! We need a good PR guy though....Al? What do you say?

[LTb1ow]

DONE! We need a good PR guy though....Al? What do you say?

As long as there is a nice water cooler.

[Frosty]

I might even throw in a nice GM car as a courtesy car, with Tsar's approval of course.