Small Displacement Corvette?

[FlyingDutchman]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/next-corvette-will-be-powered-by-small--high-revving-turbo-v-8.html

European style 3 liter turbocharged Corvette .... :-? Any truth to this?

[V]

sounds like the motor being planned for the 2013 Cadillac ATS-V

[sweetbmxrider]

not from gminsidenews, do not want!

[BigAls87Z28]

not from gminsidenews, do not want!

This.

No, there will be no such engine. Sorry.

ATS-V will be Gen V V8 powered, but there will be a twin turbo V6 model making 350-380hp.

[NastyEllEssWon]

This.

No, there will be no such engine. Sorry.

ATS-V will be Gen V V8 powered, but there will be a twin turbo V6 model making 350-380hp.




in before al's wrong and didnt get super gm inside info

[sweetbmxrider]

in before al's wrong and didnt get super gm inside info

Quoted for teh trollz

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually I had a convo with someone yesterday about this. Still calling shens, possible misunderstanding. There is a twin turbo 3.0 V6 coming, and GM might have used Corvette as a test bed for it. The TT3.0 will make near 400hp, so it could easily be confused as a V8.

[qwikz28]

Any news of it being mid-engined or having flappy paddles?

[Blacdout96]

Id rather see a small displacement Corvette that can rev to high heaven, it would certainly put it more on a global sports car scale. I believe one GM designer/spokesman said they don't plan to take the Vette to a M/R drivetrain, but they are certainly nearing the very limit of F/R Drivetrain performance. For me, it's time to throw the block behind ya, and bring the Vette into the 21st century of performance.

Id say a 3.5-4.5 Litre engine with forced induction would be nice. Hell if anything put it in the base model Corvette, it would certainly bring some new buyers in that don't want to shell out 50K+ for a vette, but would probable hurt the Camaro market...

[BigAls87Z28]

No mid engine. C7 will be evolutionary like C6 was. Lighter weight combined with more fuel efficient powertain, as well as some other aids. I wouldn't be surprised to see 30mpg on the sticker.

[BullittSVT]

Disgusting.

You can try that junk on something other than a Corvette.

[BigAls87Z28]

I don't understand the logic of reducing the cost of the Corvette. Can't afford it? Too bad. It needs to be an aspirational vehicle, something that means something other than speed. It should start at 50k, and not a penny less. Stop making it an everyman car.

[BullittSVT]

I don't understand the logic of reducing the cost of the Corvette. Can't afford it? Too bad. It needs to be an aspirational vehicle, something that means something other than speed. It should start at 50k, and not a penny less. Stop making it an everyman car.

Hence the muscle car was born! Performance on a budget!

[Blacdout96]

I don't understand the logic of reducing the cost of the Corvette. Can't afford it? Too bad. It needs to be an aspirational vehicle, something that means something other than speed. It should start at 50k, and not a penny less. Stop making it an everyman car.

Well it's not exactly an exotic car when more then 1.5 million have been made. Might want to give it an image where a younger generation will appreciate it, and continue to produce an interest for it.

50's and 60's, it was a symbol of America's sports car, those baby boomers whos fathers, or themselves owned one are a large portion of current owners. By the 70's 80's it became more of a status symbol with poor performance numbers (sans ZR1) By the 90's and 2000's, those baby boomers now are the symbol of Corvette. Bald or white head, a bad porno mustache, sporting a Corvette shirt, hat, AND jacket at the same time, and recently divorced from their wifes thanks to their mid life crisis. Unfortunately while that was going on, a new era of the car culture emerged, which is imports. They are affordable, and cheap to maintain with a great aftermarket support, and for some reason, excite this generation since a 18-24 year old is more prone to buying a new Honda Civic, VW, or if their pockets are big enough, but still 10K+ less then a Corvette, a Subaru or Evo.

Does this hurt Corvette now, hell no, they have a demographic right now that's swarming the Corvette, and with their line up, give some great choices. Down the line though, this generation is more prone to looking for that WRX or genesis they had during those "fun times" then when daddy left mom and spent a wad on an automatic Corvette that he kept in a climate controlled garage under a silk sheet.

Sorry, but people ( at least a majority) don't use the Corvette for it's intended use anymore, except to parade at the local car meet, and raise their noses to anything less then a twin version that bob from down the street bought after seeing yours, or to tell you what is and what is not Corvette original on your car. Sorry but you say if you can't afford it too bad? I say if you can, but baby it for fear of it looking less then show room ready, then too bad for you, you've wasted a perfectly good car. It would have a more fitting end wrapping it around a tree or guard rail because it was driven in anger during a track event, then to forever to never exceed 55mph or become a trailor queen.

I say if these people aren't going to use the car for it's intended purpose ( namely it's speed), no need to put a big engine in it, when a smaller displacement, better fuel economy, and a price tag that could raise a few eyebrows. not only that but for the younger generation, it would give Evo/Subaru shoppers a third option. If so then I say go for it. Leave th e ZR1, GS, and Z06 to the older and more financially situated buyers.

You say stop trying to make it an everyman's car, I say you're exactly the type of person that holds the Corvette back from it's true potential in the market.

Now Al, let me say, I'm not saying all this to argue with you. I expressed my interest in the Corvette's possible turn to using alternative ways to produce power, and this is my reasoning for why I support it, and why I dissagree with your anser to me, but like I said, I'm just voicing my opinion. No internet battle will be taking place lol.

[sweetbmxrider]

I can't believe you just compare a corvette to an evo or subaru.

[r0nin89]

"There will be several different types of engines offered for the C7, including a more classic, big-block OHV V-8 designed to appeal to traditionalists."

I would **** if they brought back a real big block...

[Blacdout96]

I can't believe you just compare a corvette to an evo or subaru.

lol, absolutely, I believe dollar for dollar, the Evo or Subaru blow the Vette out of the water. They are more track prepped (road racing/auto-x) they can be used year around, are accepted world wide as far as fitment on the road and handling, and comfortably carry 4 passengers, and yet they come almost 10K less.

[Flippindabird]

well said Blacdout... i feel like everything you said totally sucks... yet i cant help but agree with you.



F#ck imports.... i also own a subaru though :|

[Jersey Mike]

Well it's not exactly an exotic car when more then 1.5 million have been made. Might want to give it an image where a younger generation will appreciate it, and continue to produce an interest for it.

50's and 60's, it was a symbol of America's sports car, those baby boomers whos fathers, or themselves owned one are a large portion of current owners. By the 70's 80's it became more of a status symbol with poor performance numbers (sans ZR1) By the 90's and 2000's, those baby boomers now are the symbol of Corvette. Bald or white head, a bad porno mustache, sporting a Corvette shirt, hat, AND jacket at the same time, and recently divorced from their wifes thanks to their mid life crisis. Unfortunately while that was going on, a new era of the car culture emerged, which is imports. They are affordable, and cheap to maintain with a great aftermarket support, and for some reason, excite this generation since a 18-24 year old is more prone to buying a new Honda Civic, VW, or if their pockets are big enough, but still 10K+ less then a Corvette, a Subaru or Evo.

Does this hurt Corvette now, hell no, they have a demographic right now that's swarming the Corvette, and with their line up, give some great choices. Down the line though, this generation is more prone to looking for that WRX or genesis they had during those "fun times" then when daddy left mom and spent a wad on an automatic Corvette that he kept in a climate controlled garage under a silk sheet.

Sorry, but people ( at least a majority) don't use the Corvette for it's intended use anymore, except to parade at the local car meet, and raise their noses to anything less then a twin version that bob from down the street bought after seeing yours, or to tell you what is and what is not Corvette original on your car. Sorry but you say if you can't afford it too bad? I say if you can, but baby it for fear of it looking less then show room ready, then too bad for you, you've wasted a perfectly good car. It would have a more fitting end wrapping it around a tree or guard rail because it was driven in anger during a track event, then to forever to never exceed 55mph or become a trailor queen.

I say if these people aren't going to use the car for it's intended purpose ( namely it's speed), no need to put a big engine in it, when a smaller displacement, better fuel economy, and a price tag that could raise a few eyebrows. not only that but for the younger generation, it would give Evo/Subaru shoppers a third option. If so then I say go for it. Leave th e ZR1, GS, and Z06 to the older and more financially situated buyers.

You say stop trying to make it an everyman's car, I say you're exactly the type of person that holds the Corvette back from it's true potential in the market.

Now Al, let me say, I'm not saying all this to argue with you. I expressed my interest in the Corvette's possible turn to using alternative ways to produce power, and this is my reasoning for why I support it, and why I dissagree with your anser to me, but like I said, I'm just voicing my opinion. No internet battle will be taking place lol.



Personally, I don't think it's broken, so why try to "fix" it.

While you make some great points as to why the Corvette should have a more inexpensive & lesser performing base-model, I think we should leave it as-is.

A lot of the appeal of something is in it's attainability and reputation. I full-on agree with you that most Corvette's don't see their power potential, however I don't think that's sufficient grounds for messing with it. There are plenty of 'Vette owners that do open their cars up, and when they do, it's a well-above-average performance. There's a certain respect that's had for these cars; it's that you know they can lay the smackdown on you with the blip of the throttle. In addition to that, they're not something you see left and right. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't define the Corvette as "rare" at all, but besides maybe another one in your town, or one you know of in the next town over, they're not common either. On any given day, I see 3-4 WRX/STis and countless Mustangs. While the STis are incredible performers and certain trim Mustangs are badass, they lose their appeal to me because Tim, John & Harry all have one too, and while it doesn't take away from their performance, it takes away from some of it's specialty that way.
I think we'd both agree that a big chunk of the Corvette market is people who bought it for it's reputation. Mess with that, and I think sales would decrease.

[coolmanvette75]

Why mess with sucess? The newer generation vettes (c5 and c6) have proven to be amazing all around cars. For example, my one buddy has a C6 Z06 and road races the crap out of it. It is one of the best performing cars in the class and he does very well with it. My other buddy has the same year Z06 and holds the IRS record with a 7.8x pass. My point is, that they can be bought and used (or easily modified) to be very competitive in all walks of motorsport.

They just need to tweek the car slightly. An interior re-design is a must. That is the one thing that the Corvette lacks the most when compared to others in its class. I also think that the outside just needs a slight facelift. I am not a fan of the "transformers c7" and dont think that they need to change the car so drastically.

Keep the drivetrain basically the same. The LSX engines have proven to be better than the rest, while still getting reasonable milage. I think that anything besides a big displacement pushrod V8 in the Vette would KILL it. People today are buying these cars for the amazing performance and sound that everyone has come to love and expect.

Lastly, I agree with Al, keep the cost no less than 50k. A Vette is not something that everyone and their brother should have. A Vette should be a sign of hard work. Its the kind of car one rewards themself with.

[Frosty]

lol, absolutely, I believe dollar for dollar, the Evo or Subaru blow the Vette out of the water. They are more track prepped (road racing/auto-x) they can be used year around, are accepted world wide as far as fitment on the road and handling, and comfortably carry 4 passengers, and yet they come almost 10K less.

You're trying compare a 4 door, passenger car to a 2-seater? WTFux? I understand what you're trying to say but it's without a doubt an apple vs. orange comparison. If you think a 20's something kid fresh out of college who has a career who "might" be looking to start a family OR accidentally starts a family would even consider a 2 seater car you're nuts lol

[sweetbmxrider]

lol, absolutely, I believe dollar for dollar, the Evo or Subaru blow the Vette out of the water. They are more track prepped (road racing/auto-x) they can be used year around, are accepted world wide as far as fitment on the road and handling, and comfortably carry 4 passengers, and yet they come almost 10K less.

The corvette is gm's single most successful car, ever. Somehow your logic says otherwise. You= Teh Crazy :lol:

[maroman88]

vette owner speaking :).... i worked my way up to a vette... tbi, tpi, 5.0, tpi, lt1, ls1 fbody finally to the ls1 vette. i bought it cause its the most bad ass, best all around performer i could afford (used). for the first year i drove it year round, except when the road was physicly snow covered. i drive it hard cause thats what i bought it for, i take it to the track, like every other car ive had, cause thats what it was built to do, and do it quickly! i got 26mpg last trip to Etown, including 6 runs lol. todays vette is right where it needs to be, change anything major about it and it becomes like any old boring car. theres a reason why its coming up on its 60th anniversary! what other model can say that?

[Frosty]

Another thing to consider about the Corvette...GM doesn't make much $$$ on them as it sits now...lower the price any and they LOSE $$$. Lower the price and use lesser parts means you have a 2 seater Camaro(in terms of quality)....no thanks. Pass.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hence the muscle car was born! Performance on a budget!

Corvette did not usher in the era of the Muscle Car. Not with its 6cyl, 2spd auto configuration in its first two years. And it sure was never "on a budget".

lol, absolutely, I believe dollar for dollar, the Evo or Subaru blow the Vette out of the water. They are more track prepped (road racing/auto-x) they can be used year around, are accepted world wide as far as fitment on the road and handling, and comfortably carry 4 passengers, and yet they come almost 10K less.

Dollar for Dollar? An Evo and STi are 40k+ per, with a Corvette coming in high 40's. Dollar or dollar...they are the same dollars. Id pair an Evo vs a Corvette GS and see who comes out in the end as being better. Evo is a great car, and is way more adaptive than Corvette is, and to be honest, it would be a tough choice between the two. Id say the power of the Vette GS would take the Evo on a track by a good margin.


Well it's not exactly an exotic car when more then 1.5 million have been made. Might want to give it an image where a younger generation will appreciate it, and continue to produce an interest for it.

Not an exotic, but at its limited numbers, its exotic for GM. It needs to maintain a level of not only performance and design, but also be an car to desire. Corvette was, untill the Volt, usually the car that displayed brand new technology first. Adaptive suspension, heads up display, DOHC V8, carbon brakes, fuel injection, IRS, transmission, etc etc.



50's and 60's, it was a symbol of America's sports car, those baby boomers whos fathers, or themselves owned one are a large portion of current owners. By the 70's 80's it became more of a status symbol with poor performance numbers (sans ZR1) By the 90's and 2000's, those baby boomers now are the symbol of Corvette. Bald or white head, a bad porno mustache, sporting a Corvette shirt, hat, AND jacket at the same time, and recently divorced from their wifes thanks to their mid life crisis. Unfortunately while that was going on, a new era of the car culture emerged, which is imports. They are affordable, and cheap to maintain with a great aftermarket support, and for some reason, excite this generation since a 18-24 year old is more prone to buying a new Honda Civic, VW, or if their pockets are big enough, but still 10K+ less then a Corvette, a Subaru or Evo.


70's had poor performance everywhere, but the 80's the Vette jumped back into the ring to try to become a world-class sports car again. It became the image of rich old people buying it because 1) the 80's were the era of "Me" and 2) because the car's image of the 60's was regained by making the C4 one of the world's best sports cars, and not just an flashy image. Unfortunatly, the Corvette was stagnate by the 90's with little refreshes, and with GM's roller coaster adventures of that time, it lost more and more respect and lost more and more ground to the Euros and now Japanese.
Just due to sheer numbers, the Civic and other Japanese compacts had a much better chance of becoming popular with kids who wanted a change of pace from the muscle car years before them. Corvette's price was never going to change that. You dont see Porsche's popularity change because F&F said to put a fartcan on your Civic.

Does this hurt Corvette now, hell no, they have a demographic right now that's swarming the Corvette, and with their line up, give some great choices. Down the line though, this generation is more prone to looking for that WRX or genesis they had during those "fun times" then when daddy left mom and spent a wad on an automatic Corvette that he kept in a climate controlled garage under a silk sheet.

Again, the Corvette's image should never, ever, ever have to rely on 18 year olds buying one 10 years from now. Ever. That 18 year old wants a Corvette, and thats why he might buy a Camaro because its cheaper, and mod it to make it fast, so they can post in some race board "I BEAT A CORVETTE TONIGHT!!"


Sorry, but people ( at least a majority) don't use the Corvette for it's intended use anymore, except to parade at the local car meet, and raise their noses to anything less then a twin version that bob from down the street bought after seeing yours, or to tell you what is and what is not Corvette original on your car. Sorry but you say if you can't afford it too bad? I say if you can, but baby it for fear of it looking less then show room ready, then too bad for you, you've wasted a perfectly good car. It would have a more fitting end wrapping it around a tree or guard rail because it was driven in anger during a track event, then to forever to never exceed 55mph or become a trailor queen.

Who cares what they use it for! You can say that about Ferrari, Aston, Porsche, the GTR, Lambo, so forth and so on. Flooding the market with cheaper versions would only destroy the brand image that Corvette has continued to fight back since the 70's. People will do whatever they want if they have the money, and want to own one. Corvette is more than an engine and some fancy body work. Its an image, its a history, its more than just owning a car.

I say if these people aren't going to use the car for it's intended purpose ( namely it's speed), no need to put a big engine in it, when a smaller displacement, better fuel economy, and a price tag that could raise a few eyebrows. not only that but for the younger generation, it would give Evo/Subaru shoppers a third option. If so then I say go for it. Leave th e ZR1, GS, and Z06 to the older and more financially situated buyers.

No, it would not give Evo/Subbie guys another option. People looking to buy that type of car are buying it because it is NOT an Vette!

You say stop trying to make it an everyman's car, I say you're exactly the type of person that holds the Corvette back from it's true potential in the market.

Now Al, let me say, I'm not saying all this to argue with you. I expressed my interest in the Corvette's possible turn to using alternative ways to produce power, and this is my reasoning for why I support it, and why I dissagree with your anser to me, but like I said, I'm just voicing my opinion. No internet battle will be taking place lol.

The corvette is gm's single most successful car, ever. Somehow your logic says otherwise. You= Teh Crazy :lol:

True potential in the market? What would be its target in this market? #1 in sales? Has that. 50+ years of history? Got it. To be a Miata with more power? No. So what exactly is being held back from? From being rally car? From being a muscle car? From being a hybrid?
The C6 has had the most focus on the goal of becoming a proper world class sports car. C7 needs to take that focus, and tune it up by making the car demand the 50k price tag. with GM's advancements in interior design and materials, I expect something really cool for C7.

Another thing to consider about the Corvette...GM doesn't make much $$$ on them as it sits now...lower the price any and they LOSE $$$. Lower the price and use lesser parts means you have a 2 seater Camaro(in terms of quality)....no thanks. Pass.

Eh, they make decent amount of money. They were happy to have Caddy share some of the C6's costs, which help open up some more money for all that aluminum/mag chassis stuff as well as all that suspension an engine jazz

Corvette transcends all of GM's brands, and it needs to be treated as a brand within a brand. Having a twin turbo 3.0 V8 would be great, but it just is not going to happen. Would have to be shared with Caddy or something, and a brand new engine program would light off tons of red flags.....****, bonfires that GM is working on limited number, brand new V8 engine program. At this point in the C7's gestation, it would have leaked out a long time ago.

[Blacdout96]

Corvette transcends all of GM's brands, and it needs to be treated as a brand within a brand. Having a twin turbo 3.0 V8 would be great, but it just is not going to happen. Would have to be shared with Caddy or something, and a brand new engine program would light off tons of red flags.....****, bonfires that GM is working on limited number, brand new V8 engine program. At this point in the C7's gestation, it would have leaked out a long time ago.

What ever happened to that 4.4 supercharged engine they were putting in that mini cadillac sports car? ( name slips my mind at the moment) they could base a base model on that engine for the smaller, but forced inductioned engine, couldn't they?

[V]

OThe 460+ hp supercharged northstar in the stsv and xlrv? Those were all hand built.

[V]

Ats-v will prob get the turbo 3.0 pushing around 400hp

[LS1ow]

just put a LT1 in the C7 and stfu.

[BigAls87Z28]

What ever happened to that 4.4 supercharged engine they were putting in that mini cadillac sports car? ( name slips my mind at the moment) they could base a base model on that engine for the smaller, but forced inductioned engine, couldn't they?

The Northstar Supercharged in the XLR-V? Made 443hp, is physically larger and consumes more gas than LS3, for a super awesome 10hp gain over the LS3.

Ats-v will prob get the turbo 3.0 pushing around 400hp

ATS-V, C7, and Camaro will all share the same engine. The...

just put a LT1 in the C7 and stfu.

Yes, the LT1, 6.2 liter V8 making mid 400 to 500hp.

[LS1ow]

Yes, the LT1, 6.2 liter V8 making mid 400 to 500hp.


do not want.

http://image.gmhightechperformance.com/f/8957790/0504htp_lt1_01_z.jpg

do want.

[BigAls87Z28]

Nope, not that LT1, brand new. Something that will bring the LT1 name back to life after the disaster of the early 90's.

[LS1ow]

Nope, not that LT1, brand new. Something that will bring the LT1 name back to life after the disaster of the early 90's.

i believe i recall u talkin bout that, possibly at the Chapter house?

[sweetbmxrider]

Nope, not that LT1, brand new. Something that will bring the LT1 name back to life after the disaster of the early 90's.

Thats almost as funny as an ls1 3rd gen swap that only goes up and sink.

[BigAls87Z28]

Eventually it will be fast. LT1's will always be lame, no matter how much green you paint it.

[sweetbmxrider]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Well I'm going to drive my camaro into work tomorrow. khatebye

[Tru2Chevy]

LT1's will always be lame, no matter how much green you paint it.

True....but will the new one be a lame LT1, or will it be an LT-1?

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

Like I said, it will bring honor back to the LT1 name. Gen V is an all new design, ground up.

[coolmanvette75]

i believe i recall u talkin bout that, possibly at the Chapter house?
Yup Al mentioned the return of the LT1 at Chapterhouse...I thought he said it would only be an RPO code and not an actual engine though. Maybe im just confusing things...

[JL8Jeff]

Like I said, it will bring honor back to the LT1 name. Gen V is an all new design, ground up.

The old LT1 ate valves, the more recent LT-1 was a pretty dam good engine with EFI, so which one are they bringing back honor too? Chevy needs to stop re-using engine identifications because it just screws up everyone! And none of this has anything to do with the Corvette being able to tow a boat! :rofl: Otherwise I would be a Corvette weenie with a mid life crisis already! :moon:

[Slow-V6]

Nope, not that LT1, brand new. Something that will bring the LT1 name back to life after the disaster of the early 90's.

3rd times a charm!!

[BonzoHansen]

3rd times a charm!!

The 1st LT1 was a bad ass solid lifter engine

[maroman88]

The old LT1 ate valves, the more recent LT-1 was a pretty dam good engine with EFI, so which one are they bringing back honor too? Chevy needs to stop re-using engine identifications because it just screws up everyone! And none of this has anything to do with the Corvette being able to tow a boat! :rofl: Otherwise I would be a Corvette weenie with a mid life crisis already! :moon:

http://www.malibuboats.com/images/review/Jan/MalibuCorvetteBoatwCar_800.jpg

[BullittSVT]

Any man crazy enough to tow a boat with a Corvette should not own one. Although the Vette rims on the trailer does add a level of "LOL"

[WildBillyT]

Any man crazy enough to tow a boat with a Corvette should not own one. Although the Vette rims on the trailer does add a level of "LOL"

With the amount of money he spent making a Corvette boat and on Corvette jackets and golf bags (I'm sure) he could have afforded something better than a base model car.

Yeah, put the Z06 rims on your trailer and keep the stock C6 rims on your car. Makes perfect sense.

[LTb1ow]

With the amount of money he spent making a Corvette boat and on Corvette jackets and golf bags (I'm sure) he could have afforded something better than a base model car.

Yeah, put the Z06 rims on your trailer and keep the stock C6 rims on your car. Makes perfect sense.

And I bet stopping that trailer with baller rims is a lot of fun... :rofl:

[sweetbmxrider]

Sounds like a bunch of hate hate hate :shrug:




:lol:

[LTb1ow]

All I do is hate hate hatttteeeee

[Syzygy]

While I do agree that the Corvette isn't designed for towing a boat, I can't see why it wouldn't do a good job at it. I tow larger loads than that with my 1992 S10 with the massive 4.3. The Corvette literally has me beat on everything. It's heavier, has WAY better brakes, stronger driveline, better weight distribution, better power, and I'm sure those tires have a larger tread patch than my huge 195/75-14s. That said, that is one goofy lookin' boat.

[JL8Jeff]

That is a factory production boat but I forget who makes it. Obviously way too big to tow with any car other than the family truckster!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XIRWX53FbH8/R8EOGr_kWeI/AAAAAAAAAiE/-4k-01YHaEQ/s400/Vacation_familytruckster.jpg

-

[BigAls87Z28]

Hydro formed frame rails, V8 powered...sounds like a good tow-platform?

[Jersey Mike]

Hydro formed frame rails, V8 powered...sounds like a good tow-platform?



He needs a Canyonero.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

That is a factory production boat but I forget who makes it.
-

Malibu