need an opinion, engine guys come on in

[greenformula92]

ok my plan with the formula is to build something thats gonna be good for the street, not going to see too much strip time, not gonna see more than 400 HP, just something thats better than stock. so my plan is to find a L98 block and heads if possible to make a seamless transaction there. i am going to keep the TPI for a factory appearing engine, and stuff the block with this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B13405L00068/

whats everyones opinion on this kit. is the right one? i can't remember if the L98 is a 2 or 1 piece rear main? would like to have one that is. haven't figured out a camshaft yet but not looking for anything huge. something that is gonna be tunable in the TPI prom and be very streetable for possible daily use, maybe even pass emissions? opinions on that welcome as well because i really don't know what to go with as far as a cam goes

[WildBillyT]

Personally I would not gamble on an Eagle cast crankshaft.

[BonzoHansen]

For that power level won't stock gm parts be fine?

[greenformula92]

im looking to go up in size with out breaking the bank, the motor i am looking at picking up is going to need a new crank anyway. and i can modify the stock L98 heads and use a good streetable cam and hopefully build the whole thing for under 1500

[JerzLT1]

get the crank turned or find a used one that good enough to have it done and throw some rods/pistons in it

[HeadlessNorseman]

if your keeping the TPI you wont ever be able to rev it very high anyway, so a stock SBC bottom end would be fine. unless you go with a stealth ram or mini ram. You might have to have the block honed or line bored so keep that in mind, its not cheap. Its better to start with a running motor with good compression even if you have to pay a lot for it. A stock small block with decent compression and vortec iron heads machined for a big cam can make close to 400 hp i believe. But you would have to run a carb (or a stealth ram again, i believe they make a vortec base for it now) to get the airflow

[WayFast84]

buy my 400, put a smaller camshaft in it change valve springs and skip the tpi :)

[spina74]

buy my 400, put a smaller camshaft in it change valve springs and skip the tpi :)

You can use the tpi with a 400, if you reuse the heads or have a pre87 style tpi

[greenformula92]

I am going to keep the tpi. Not looking to make boat loads of power. Just streetable, maybe enough to take on a stock ls car without breaking the bank...ls swap = breaking the bank

[Slow-V6]

Nitrous!! Its cheap and easy to reach that goal!! Also a used supercharger setup would be a good choice as well..

[maroman88]

look up some crate engine on summit.... eventually im guna go with a 355 or 383, and a warranty

[greenformula92]

look up some crate engine on summit.... eventually im guna go with a 355 or 383, and a warranty

Too much money

[coolmanvette75]

Eagle cast crank and hyper pistons are junk. Go rebuild the stock bottom and put the money you save towards a better heads/cam package.

[WayFast84]

Honestly op. Get a summit/jets gmpp replacement motor for 1500 and put a mild camshaft in it and be done. Budget friendly, decent power and reliable. I wish I did this..You can use the tpi with a 400, if you reuse the heads or have a pre87 style tpi

TPI sucks, besides I have vortec's and I'm not sure if they make an affordable intake for tpi and those heads..

[NJ Torque]

Honestly op. Get a summit/jets gmpp replacement motor for 1500 and put a mild camshaft in it and be done. Budget friendly, decent power and reliable. I wish I did this..

TPI sucks, besides I have vortec's and I'm not sure if they make an affordable intake for tpi and those heads..


Stealth ram....

[91chevywt]

I wouldn't put a new crank/pistons in a block without taking it to a machine shop, and this will take you out of your budget quick.

I would go with a cheap 2 bolt 350 short block and leave the stock crank/pistons in it. Get vortec heads or port heads to flow similar, go with an LT1 or LT4 cam, keep the TPI, and get a cheap tune. You'll have a reliable 300 HP for less than $1000

http://www.tbichips.com/bluewhale.htm

I came across this build which is very simple. I was pretty impressed with it, especially since it's a TBI truck

[greenformula92]

II forgot to mention I have hook with a retired builder that has his machine shop at his house....so machine work isn't that big of an issue if need be....I just don't want to pay to bore it

[BullittSVT]

Sell car, buy 350 3rd Gen with forumla money + 1000 and you have yourself a hopefully trouble free street car..

[SRGN]

Fast, cheap, reliable. You can have 2 of the 3.....

[Tru2Chevy]

I really don't see how you are going to get this done reliably on a $1500 budget unless you find a really good deal on a running 350 that already has good enough heads in the bolt pattern that you need for your TPI intake. You certainly aren't going to have an almost 400hp car with a stock TPI + mild cam. However if you are looking for a car with street performance comparable to a stock LS1 car, then you should be in good shape - the TPI setup will help you make plenty of torque down low, right where you need it for a street car.

Sell car, buy 350 3rd Gen with forumla money + 1000 and you have yourself a hopefully trouble free street car..

91-92 Formula 350s don't come cheap in decent shape, and even so, he'd still be sitting at only 245hp/345tq.

- Justin

[greenformula92]

I really don't see how you are going to get this done reliably on a $1500 budget unless you find a really good deal on a running 350 that already has good enough heads in the bolt pattern that you need for your TPI intake. You certainly aren't going to have an almost 400hp car with a stock TPI + mild cam. However if you are looking for a car with street performance comparable to a stock LS1 car, then you should be in good shape - the TPI setup will help you make plenty of torque down low, right where you need it for a street car.



91-92 Formula 350s don't come cheap in decent shape, and even so, he'd still be sitting at only 245hp/345tq.

- Justin

Justin that is spot on...I want it to be a street car comparable to a stock ls1. Formula 350'S are hard to find for cheap in general. And I did try selling the car for a while. Didn't work out at all. If I could trade it for a 350 bird wheather it by a t/a or eta or formula I would but no one going to trade down

[BigAls87Z28]

For $1500 bucks, it can be done, but you are gunna have to look real hard for some parts if you want to make about 350-400hp at the crank ie "like an LS1".
A good set of heads, find a good deal on a cam, purchase some valvetrain stuff, and start working hard on massaging the TPI stuff. Don't forget that you will need a tune, and if there is any cash left, you might want to get a torque converter.

[iroc86NJ]

Maybe this is out of the question......but why not buy a used 5.3L LS motor? That motor would meet all of your criteria except for stock appearing. if you pick up enough second hand parts you could totally convert it for under $1500

[WayFast84]

Stealth ram....

$750 for an intake isn't an affordable solution especially for the average third gen owner.

Unless you find an amazing deal on a top end I don't see this coming budget working. Seriously just buy a remanufactured gm motor and attach your tip stuffs to it and when you have more money swap in a jets/summit camshaft, you'll get the lope you want and pick up a few ponies.

What suspension components do you have?

[BigAls87Z28]

Maybe this is out of the question......but why not buy a used 5.3L LS motor? That motor would meet all of your criteria except for stock appearing. if you pick up enough second hand parts you could totally convert it for under $1500

Not for $1500. After adapters, trans, harness, PCM, hoses, rewiring, etc etc...

[BigAls87Z28]

$750 for an intake isn't an affordable solution especially for the average third gen owner.

Unless you find an amazing deal on a top end I don't see this coming budget working. Seriously just buy a remanufactured gm motor and attach your tip stuffs to it and when you have more money swap in a jets/summit camshaft, you'll get the lope you want and pick up a few ponies.

What suspension components do you have?

Unless price has gone that far up in the last 2 years, I think HSR with fuel rails is under $600. Will still be high and take up half the bill.

[V]

...you guys all do find it easy to spend someone else's money i see.


the truth is, plain and simple, that a 1500 budget will not get you a good well rounded street car to take on LS1 cars. A car needs overall upgrades, ie; trans rear brakes engine suspension in order to accomplish this.

However, 1500 will get you a fun driver that can be reliable and something to be proud of.

[BigAls87Z28]

I would say invest the 1500 in the car. Suspension, maybe upgraded brakes, basic cleaning and tune up stuff. That can make the car feel a lot better.

[WildBillyT]

I would say invest the 1500 in the car. Suspension, maybe upgraded brakes, basic cleaning and tune up stuff. That can make the car feel a lot better.

Yup. Or hold off until you can spend some more $.

[BullittSVT]

^ Save up for an LT car >_>

[WayFast84]

Can do if he wasn't set on tpi or a reman shortblock... and a fuel injected 5.3 swap is more $ than an ls1 swap..

[BonzoHansen]

...you guys all do find it easy to spend someone else's money i see.


the truth is, plain and simple, that a 1500 budget will not get you a good well rounded street car to take on LS1 cars. A car needs overall upgrades, ie; trans rear brakes engine suspension in order to accomplish this.

However, 1500 will get you a fun driver that can be reliable and something to be proud of.

this is all true.

[greenformula92]

guys....the 1500 is my engine build budget....not the car budget

...you guys all do find it easy to spend someone else's money i see.


the truth is, plain and simple, that a 1500 budget will not get you a good well rounded street car to take on LS1 cars. A car needs overall upgrades, ie; trans rear brakes engine suspension in order to accomplish this.

However, 1500 will get you a fun driver that can be reliable and something to be proud of.

thats exactly what i am looking for, just a little more power in a budget friendly, street friendly package

[Lt1_8U]

i would wait till you have more money to put into the motor, im building my second motor and ive learned its better to wait and do it right with quality parts. would you rather wait a little longer and build a fast reliable car or build a motor based around 1500 and run the risk of things breaking, costing you more money in the long run. its always up to you but id say wait keep saving and buy quality parts. make a list of everything and see how much it costs then save, having a price range and trying to buy parts to fit in that budget isnt a good plan IMO

[V]

ah ok, well 1500 for engine build still isnt much.

can you just clarify if thats for the rebuild or machine work or for the main componennts etc? like do you consider headers in that or not? what about an ignition system/new dizzy?

Heres 2 of my experiences with sbc...
I did a 383 build in my old 88 iroc vert and i bought a longbloack minus valvetrain for 1800 from a company, the cam lifters, rockers pushrods easily set me back another 1k. the billet dizzy and 6AL ignition box was at least another 700, then new carb intake manifold at least 500. That was 4k right there without even trying hard. No machine work was needed.
That was also reusing my accesories, but i did put a new water pump and a new serp belt bracket mount on the drivers side due to damage i found. another 500 added on. Then thermostat, thermostat housing, motor mounts, bolts that actually fit with headers, headers, catback, new clutch, trans rebuild. but like you said all that would be separate from the 1500.

Then i also did a 350 TPI swap into a 87 Monte SS. I got a stock 87 corvette used short block for 200 off ebay, had a "noise". tore it down and found a wiped out cam bearing only. Had the bearings replaced for 1-200(cant remember) and then ordered the rebuild kit, rings, bearings, gaskets etc. And I wanna say that was maybe 400 or so. 100 for a set of 350 tpi iron heads. I resused all stock internals, but switched to a speed density tpi system. I added tubular edelbrock headers(only things that fit the car with a T5 trans mounted up). With all the nickle and dine stuff, I easily hit 1500 with just that motor build. (not counting the headers). Thats why I think 1500 for even just a engine build limits you. That particular 350tpi monte SS was dynoed and made a mere 221hp/3xxtq(give or take a few...it was in 2005, ill try to find true numbers now). now 221 at the wheels isnt impressive but considering stock internals, injectors etc, the motor new had 245 at the flywheel, the air filter and headers/catback made me a decent amount. But still FAR from being able to take on ANY LS1 car.

[WayFast84]

He could probably pick up used vortecs and run the gmpp cam they use in the 330hp crate motors for $500, but that leaves 1k for intake, shortblock and misc things.. in the end he's going to have to make some serious sacrifices to obtain that goal...

[greenformula92]

also looking at making a little bit of it back when i sell the running 305. a perfect senario would be that i pick up a cheap un damaged block, even if it needs a rebuild for an f-body, i have a set of cast tpi heads already, they just need to opened up a little. so in thoery im looking to 1500 for a bottom end only, i don't think thats too much a stretch. i am not figuring and of the other nickel and dime stuff cause i don't have to yet, headers will fall into my exhaust budget. the serp set up and manifold i will carry over from the 305 thats in the car. all the sensors i have are either like new or working order so i really don't need them. and the prom, well i am going to have to source one of them. even if i said ok im just going to do a 350 swap, still need a good 350+knock sensor, which is nothing and i'll need it anyway+prom. and im not going to just get a 350 and throw it in there, im going to have to rebuild or at least refreshen it before i put it in just for my own piece of mind

[V]

ok, fair enough, at least your not expecting 12s in the 1/4 for a $1500 build lol..

[greenformula92]

ok, fair enough, at least your not expecting 12s in the 1/4 for a $1500 build lol..

god no...this not going to be a crazy build....im not expecting anymore than somewhere in the 13's

i just figure if i have to replace the crank, i might as well go with a longer stroke, and then i though a 377 would be good, but then i need rods and pistons. hence the above rotating assembly

and with a 377 i can keep the stock bore, which is another budget friendly move

[WildBillyT]

He could probably pick up used vortecs and run the gmpp cam they use in the 330hp crate motors for $500, but that leaves 1k for intake, shortblock and misc things.. in the end he's going to have to make some serious sacrifices to obtain that goal...

My Nova combo, with prices:

Started with a running '74 350 and re-used the block and rotating assembly after it passed a leakdown test/inspection. Did a lot of cleaning.

650 Holley DP- I had it, but freshened it, figure $200
062 Vortecs w/screw in studs, LT4 springs, rockers and Manley valves -$300 used
FelPro 1094 Head gaskets - $60
Edelbrock Vortec intake- $75 very lightly used
XE268 Cam, CM pushrods - $120+ $100
Oil pump and pickup - $50
Gasket set - $50
Vortec intake gaskets -$33
Water pump - $50
Fuel pump - $80
Incidentals - $100

I actually totaled it up and it came out at under $1500. Assuming you have your ignition system already and go with a carb for induction. Ballparking with real world dyno tests of engines with Vortecs, the same cam, and same compression puts it around 375hp or so.

If you stick with your fuel injection and have to do anything with the rotating assembly I think your budget is too small. I would also spend the extra $ to go with a roller cam if your block can take it.

[BonzoHansen]

god no...this not going to be a crazy build....im not expecting anymore than somewhere in the 13's

i just figure if i have to replace the crank, i might as well go with a longer stroke, and then i though a 377 would be good, but then i need rods and pistons. hence the above rotating assembly

and with a 377 i can keep the stock bore, which is another budget friendly move

do you have a good 400 block on hand? Solid, machinable 400 cores don't fall off trees anymore. Thus the new SHP block. I'd rather do a OE 1pc roller block 350, lots more of them, EFI friendly ROLLER cams. I think your best bet if you keep EFI is find a complete 350 TPI motor and go from there.

[greenformula92]

do you have a good 400 block on hand? Solid, machinable 400 cores don't fall off trees anymore. Thus the new SHP block. I'd rather do a OE 1pc roller block 350, lots more of them, EFI friendly ROLLER cams. I think your best bet if you keep EFI is find a complete 350 TPI motor and go from there.

The plan is to use a 350 roller block with a 383 crank to achieve 377 cubes

[BonzoHansen]

unless I'm thinking wrong, a 350 with a '383 crank' is a 383. A 377 is a destroked 400 (350 crank). Guys used to build those in the old days with an eye towards high rpm. Kind of like a bigger 302. which is a bad match to OE TPI.

A 383 built for torque might be great for tpi. w/o spending $$ on an intake that can pull past 5000 rpm building a motor designed to rev high is no use. Although I still think the best bang for your $$ is a simple 350 +.030.

what trans & rear gears are you planning on? if you want to save$$ you need to plan the whole system together.

[WildBillyT]

It is a 3.75" stroke crank. Final cubic inches depend on bore.

A 350 with a "383 crank" is a 377 if it's std bore.

[BonzoHansen]

I've never known anyone to do that and not overbore lol so when I hear 377 I think 400 4.155b/3.48s

[WildBillyT]

I've never known anyone to do that and not overbore lol so when I hear 377 I think 400 4.155b/3.48s

Neither have I.

[V]

i thought 400 with the 377 too aka a destroked 400 that you can rev high.

but as an example, that used 350 block i put in my monte was std bore when i got it and did not need to be bored at all so it remained std bore, still is, ran great...but my ex has the car now and i hope it blows up with her stuck in it...

on a brighter note, its friday fridayyy...

[Slow-V6]

What is the power limit for a stock TPI intake 350 all motor?? Are most of the power gain from swapping over to a better intake like mini ram/stealth ram?? Thats what I always thought.. If you do a stealth ram and a nice cam on your 305 you should get a very nice increase in power without spending over your 1500.00 budget.. Maybe even get some head work done.. If you had more to spend then I would say get a 350 and do that build but if you do a 350 build with the stock TPI intakes on it would it make more power then a H/C/I 305 with a stealth ram setup?? If I rememer that year 305 tpi vrs 350 tpi was only a 20 hp difference or so.. 245hp for the 350 and 225hp for the 305..

I miss my TPI cars...

[WayFast84]

My Nova combo, with prices:

Started with a running '74 350 and re-used the block and rotating assembly after it passed a leakdown test/inspection. Did a lot of cleaning.

650 Holley DP- I had it, but freshened it, figure $200
062 Vortecs w/screw in studs, LT4 springs, rockers and Manley valves -$300 used
FelPro 1094 Head gaskets - $60
Edelbrock Vortec intake- $75 very lightly used
XE268 Cam, CM pushrods - $120+ $100
Oil pump and pickup - $50
Gasket set - $50
Vortec intake gaskets -$33
Water pump - $50
Fuel pump - $80
Incidentals - $100

I actually totaled it up and it came out at under $1500. Assuming you have your ignition system already and go with a carb for induction. Ballparking with real world dyno tests of engines with Vortecs, the same cam, and same compression puts it around 375hp or so.

If you stick with your fuel injection and have to do anything with the rotating assembly I think your budget is too small. I would also spend the extra $ to go with a roller cam if your block can take it.

By serious sacrifices I mean running the carb and getting a used shortblock :moon:

[BonzoHansen]

changing from EFI to a carb is not cheap if you don't have any of the stuff - carb, carb tuning parts, gaskets, intake, throttle parts, f/p reg, distributor, air cleaner, impact on auto trans, etc. and let's not forget passing emissions considering the OP's car.

[greenformula92]

There more than one way to build a 377 then...I know its an odd combo but using a 350 block as a base and using the 350 tpi heads opened up a little and the tpi manifold opened up a little could make a fun streetable little motor. The question still beckons, which cam? Looking for bigger than stock but not too big that its going to effect driveability and emissions testing?

[BonzoHansen]

not sure, you probably need to narrow down all the other variables and then select a cam. CID, heads, intake, rpm range, compression, gears, etc.

[sweetbmxrider]

Put in a stump pulling cam and watch the ls car blow the **** by in 3rd gear.

[Tru2Chevy]

What is the power limit for a stock TPI intake 350 all motor?? Are most of the power gain from swapping over to a better intake like mini ram/stealth ram?? Thats what I always thought.. If you do a stealth ram and a nice cam on your 305 you should get a very nice increase in power without spending over your 1500.00 budget.. Maybe even get some head work done.. If you had more to spend then I would say get a 350 and do that build but if you do a 350 build with the stock TPI intakes on it would it make more power then a H/C/I 305 with a stealth ram setup?? If I rememer that year 305 tpi vrs 350 tpi was only a 20 hp difference or so.. 245hp for the 350 and 225hp for the 305..

Small bore 305 block and the TPI intake are both gonna hurt the power. If it was me I would rather be "stuck" with TPI than "stuck" with a 305 block. At least you can port the TPI to open it up for a little more power up top, the small bore 305 is always gonna be a problem. The TPI is also easier to swap out in the future when time / money allows.

- Justin