Joe Paterno is gone as head coach of PSU

[BigAls87Z28]

Not sure if you guys are watching the news, but because of the kid-touching scandal, Joe Paterno has been removed as the head coach of PSU football.

Cliff notes: Asst Coach Sandusky was a massive kid toucher. At various points of his career, he was caught playing with kids. At some point it was brought to Joe Pa's attention, and he reported it, but nothing happened. The guy was still molesting kids as a PSU employee. So with that, there was a sweeping cut of all the leaders that knew about this.

Joe Paterno has been the head coach for PSU for as far back as I can remember. Guy was a God to the school and made PSU football what it is today. I am shocked to see how all this went down, but it had to happen.

[BonzoHansen]

Joe Paterno has coached Penn State for 64 seasons.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he did. I sense the real facts are not public yet.

[coolmanvette75]

Damn what a shame. He did nothing wrong and his final years as a legendary coach have been ruined...

[BigAls87Z28]

It's what he didn't do. He didn't make a bigger deal out of the school not making a big deal of Sandusky. They were most likely trying to keep it on the DL, hoping that Sandusky would stop touching kids. It didn't happen. Paterno had full knowledge of what was going on, and while he told school officials, he didn't trumpet it from the mountain tops.

[mc73nova]

He should have been fired instantly. I don't care what kind of coach, history or legacy you have, there is no good excuse or explanation for not coming forward with information like that. I'm glad, everyone with any knowledge should be fired and even prosecuted. People's lives were ruined and even more so than necessary because they were too selfish to come forward. It is truly a pathetic group of people.

[greenformula92]

while Joe Paterno has a long list of records, history, and good deeds towards the school he has become a casualty of association. While he did involve the head athletic director the school decided to handle the incident in house. how does that make it Joe Pa's fault. im sure he was told say anything and your out of here. the guy just wanted to retire on his own terms. im sure the school itself had a big role as how it was handled. should it have been handled bu the authorities, absolutely. but that wasn't Paternos fault

[BonzoHansen]

From what I have heard he did not see anything 1st hand. He was told by another coach. They then turned in that info to the school. There was also a police investigation that turned up nothing. My guess is this 70-ish year old man at the time wanted to believe in his friend and no one could prove anything. I could be rather wrong. I suspect the real facts are not out yet. Now, paterno seemed to rule the roost there and if he said jump they said how high, so he could have had the guy removed and did not. That is his downfall here I think, at least based on actual public knowledge at this point.

I suspect more facts will come out that will make joe p look worse, based on the penn state actions. although my experience with higher is ed is they are more ****ed up than governments. knee jerk worked out well for the duke lacrosse team.

[WayFast84]

Screw that whole school. Everyone who knew should've been let go. I can't beleive people think its okay it wasn't brought to the police.

This isn't covering a coworkers back who had a lapse of judgement or screwed up this hiding a rape.

Edit if it was brought to the police and the investigation was inconclusive i take back what I said.

[WildBillyT]

It's what he didn't do. He didn't make a bigger deal out of the school not making a big deal of Sandusky. They were most likely trying to keep it on the DL, hoping that Sandusky would stop touching kids. It didn't happen. Paterno had full knowledge of what was going on, and while he told school officials, he didn't trumpet it from the mountain tops.

Yes. Exactly.

Regardless of how good a coach he was, or how much the people of Penn State loved him, or how people think he deserves to retire on his own terms, he and a myriad of others failed the victims in this case. That McQuery guy is a real weak spined guy I guess. Who goes to a football coach to report a rape? Curley and Schultz are apparently guilty of perjury under oath, too.

According to the official indictment he was never questioned by police about the incident, and according to PA state law they were all required to report this to the PA Dept of Welfare, which they did not.

On top of it all the cops out there look like a bunch of flat out morons. Expect a house cleaning there, too. He was caught showering with a young boy when he was a coach in 1998 and the detective just told him not to do it again...

[Slow-V6]

I wonder if it were Paternos Grand kids that were molested would he have done things differantly? The Guy raped and molested 20 or more kids in Joe Paternos Facility and showers. Paterno knew of at least 2 acts and he did tell his boss but never followed up. Paterno was a God up there at Happy Valley. All he had to do is go to the police but instead he let PSU sweep it under the rug and let the Monster still have access to his facilities..

[LS1ow]

being a good coach and being a good human are 2 different things. that guy can coach as best and anyone else out there. but to hide what he hid, is just unacceptable.

this is the perfect for the "retire a hero, or stay long enough to be the villan" quote.

[LS1ow]

also, does anyone else feel they may have covered this up for this amount of time just to let JoePa get his historic win?

[WildBillyT]

also, does anyone else feel they may have covered this up for this amount of time just to let JoePa get his historic win?

Doubt it. This investigation has been going on since earlier this year.

[Jersey Mike]

It's what he didn't do.

This is what everyone is saying. This is why they fired him & everyone is calling for an outrage.
You don't fire this man because he didn't go over the heads of his bosses. He reported it, he testified, he did what his job was to do. He did his job and is not guilty of any felonies; Paterno shouldn't have been fired. And at the end of the season, was going to retire. So you boot the man so you can save face & look good in front of the bloggers and keyboard warriors who are begging for drama?

If you're going to bring into question "What someone didn't do" in this situation, it shouldn't be Joe Paterno. How about saying "Wait, did the 28-year old Mike McQueary see this act, not interrupt it, turn around and go home?"

There's a difference between "I heard through the grapevine, but I'll report it to my higher-ups, because I didn't first-hand witness it," and "I saw this with my own two eyes, I'm reporting this to the police."

and folks, this happened in 2002.

[NastyEllEssWon]

This is what everyone is saying. This is why they fired him & everyone is calling for an outrage.
You don't fire this man because he didn't go over the heads of his bosses. He reported it, he testified, he did what his job was to do. He did his job and is not guilty of any felonies; Paterno shouldn't have been fired. And at the end of the season, was going to retire. So you boot the man so you can save face & look good in front of the bloggers and keyboard warriors who are begging for drama?

If you're going to bring into question "What someone didn't do" in this situation, it shouldn't be Joe Paterno. How about saying "Wait, did the 28-year old Mike McQueary see this act, not interrupt it, turn around and go home?"

There's a difference between "I heard through the grapevine, but I'll report it to my higher-ups, because I didn't first-hand witness it," and "I saw this with my own two eyes, I'm reporting this to the police."

and folks, this happened in 2002.




i agree. he did what he was supposed to do. anyone that swept it under the rug after he reported it should be held responsible, not paterno.

[Slow-V6]

So if Paterno knew about it why did he still let that coach use the facilities whenever he wanted? He reported it to his bosses but should have followed up to see what was happening unless they told him to sweep it un the carpet and dont worry about it. The Monster raped and sexually asualted 10 yr old boys in Joe Paternos showers and Joe Paterno knew about it. If you were the coach wouldnt you have done more then tell your bosses especially if you are the biggest named coach in all of PA? Doesnt he have a obligation as a Coach/Teacher to keep students and kids safe and to have a safe envioment for students to be in? Joe P put out a statement yesterday that in Hinesight he should have done more... Come on man.. this isnt a drunk driving incodent or a drug incodent this is your Defensive Coach raping a 10yr old boy in your own showers and looking back on it you should have done more about it? The Monster has been ordered buy the courts that he cant even see his own grandchildren yet as of 2 yrs ago he still had access to Joe Paternos Locker rooms..

[BonzoHansen]

I still think we only know 5% of the facts. I suspect the tentacles on this case will run much deeper.

[WildBillyT]

So if Paterno knew about it why did he still let that coach use the facilities whenever he wanted? He reported it to his bosses but should have followed up to see what was happening unless they told him to sweep it un the carpet and dont worry about it. The Monster raped and sexually asualted 10 yr old boys in Joe Paternos showers and Joe Paterno knew about it. If you were the coach wouldnt you have done more then tell your bosses especially if you are the biggest named coach in all of PA? Doesnt he have a obligation as a Coach/Teacher to keep students and kids safe and to have a safe envioment for students to be in? Joe P put out a statement yesterday that in Hinesight he should have done more... Come on man.. this isnt a drunk driving incodent or a drug incodent this is your Defensive Coach raping a 10yr old boy in your own showers and looking back on it you should have done more about it? The Monster has been ordered buy the courts that he cant even see his own grandchildren yet as of 2 yrs ago he still had access to Joe Paternos Locker rooms..

I still think we only know 5% of the facts. I suspect the tentacles on this case will run much deeper.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/264787/grand-jury-report.pdf

Here's the Grand jury report. Read it and see for yourself, and take notes on the dates. Also note that just because they worked together in the past does not automatically mean that everybody involved knew what was going on behind closed doors.

I am not saying Paterno was there cheering him on but I am certainly saying that he did not do enough. Even a single incident at this level should have been taken further, whether it was his offical responsibility or not. Plus he is the head football coach and allegations of sexual assault are going on in his locker room. People have certainly been fired for less. The fact that this was not a bigger deal with the police is deplorable.

[Slow-V6]

Your right about not knowing it all but when Joe Paterno releases a statement saying that looking back he wished he would have done more then just telling his bosses that a 10yr old boy was raped in his lockeroom shower kinda made me sick and I think Joe Paterno is a horrible man.

Why is everyone blaming the guy that saw it happen saying he should have done more but yet he told his Boss ( head coach paterno) and everyone is saying that Paterno did nothing wrong? They both should have done more. Instead there are reports from as late as 2009 that this Monster still assualted kids in the Locker Room showers.

[Slow-V6]

I am sorry. I tried reading that but cant.. It makes me sick..

[WildBillyT]

Your right about not knowing it all but when Joe Paterno releases a statement saying that looking back he wished he would have done more then just telling his bosses that a 10yr old boy was raped in his lockeroom shower kinda made me sick and I think Joe Paterno is a horrible man.

Why is everyone blaming the guy that saw it happen saying he should have done more but yet he told his Boss ( head coach paterno) and everyone is saying that Paterno did nothing wrong? They both should have done more. Instead there are reports from as late as 2009 that this Monster still assualted kids in the Locker Room showers.

I am blaming that moron because:

A) He just walked away, apparently
B) His first call was to his father and then to Paterno
C) HE DID NOT IMMEDIATELY CALL THE POLICE
D) He was 28 years old at the time- way too old to not know what to do in this situation. Either he is a brainless idiot or he was trying to protect someone.

Who the hell doesn't call the cops after witnessing a rape?

Unless, of course, it is a fake story...

[Slow-V6]

At least 40 counts of Child sex abuse crimes for Sandusky and he is out on 100,000 bail which I guess he only had to pay 10% of that.. So for 10,000 he is out of jail..

[WildBillyT]

At least 40 counts of Child sex abuse crimes for Sandusky and he is out on 100,000 bail which I guess he only had to pay 10% of that.. So for 10,000 he is out of jail..

$20 says he doesn't make it to prison.

[Slow-V6]

$20 says he doesn't make it to prison.

I hope so.. His trial got pushed back till December. I just saw that he has 6 adopted children. Wonder what they think? What a Monster this guy is.

[LTb1ow]

Wait, so guy who is guilty of molesting kids, is on trial, and this other guy was fired and is now just as bad?

Internet tough guys yo, we should prob just throw em both off a cliff, I heard from this one source that heard from this guy, who kinda knew the coaches brother, said that they both are bad.

[WildBillyT]

Wait, so guy who is guilty of molesting kids, is on trial, and this other guy was fired and is now just as bad?

Internet tough guys yo, we should prob just throw em both off a cliff, I heard from this one source that heard from this guy, who kinda knew the coaches brother, said that they both are bad.

Nobody is saying that at all, except maybe mc73 but I doubt that's what he meant.

[LTb1ow]

Nobody is saying that at all, except maybe mc73 but I doubt that's what he meant.


I dunno, slowv6 seems to be ready to crucify the guy.

Seems like he was made a scapegoat, read that he just got a letter that said to call a number and they just said you are relieved of your duty, or similar.

Sucks, you give your whole life to a place and they kick you out like the trash.

[NastyEllEssWon]

what more is the guy going to do. he heard a story. reported it. there was an investigation which came up inconclusive with lack of evidence. paterno said he didnt catch the guy or see it first hand....whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. the cops couldnt build a case against him which paterno probably took as the lack of evidence = false claims. what more do you want him to do, launch a personal investigation???


paterno will always be a legend in my book. i in no way shape or form condone pedophiles or think they should be allowed to carry on with what they do, but paterno is not a pedophile. he might have dropped the ball on this and let down those 20 or so kids, but what a bout the thousands of others lives he changed...no credit for that????

[WildBillyT]

what more is the guy going to do. he heard a story. reported it. there was an investigation which came up inconclusive with lack of evidence. paterno said he didnt catch the guy or see it first hand....whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. the cops couldnt build a case against him which paterno probably took as the lack of evidence = false claims. what more do you want him to do, launch a personal investigation???


paterno will always be a legend in my book. i in no way shape or form condone pedophiles or think they should be allowed to carry on with what they do, but paterno is not a pedophile. he might have dropped the ball on this and let down those 20 or so kids, but what a bout the thousands of others lives he changed...no credit for that????

He was part of a ring of guys who didn't do the right thing. That's it. He's not going to prison, or is even being charged with anything. He got fired, which is appropriate for misconduct like this. He did a quarter-ass job of handling a serious situation. Who knows if he knew about the other incendents, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say no. I'm not saying he should have loaded a rifle and shot Sandusky from a clock tower but I will say that he did as ****** a job of reporting it (according to the court documents) as one can do while still saying SOMETHING. The athletic director is being brought up on charges.

Regarding the 2002 incident, there are zero records of any type of investigation by the "real authorities", i.e. the state police. None. Just by "higher ups" in the administration and the local university police, who ultimately report to Spanier, the guy who just got fired as well. That reeks of buck passing and sweeping things under the carpet.

[98CamaroSS]

IMO it was time to go. No only did he do wrong in not reporting it to the cops, but how much longer was he going to be the head coach anyways?? :?:

[coolmanvette75]

I feel they could have handled it a lot better than firing him on the spot. There are 3 games left in the season, and the man said he was retiring. They should have let him coach the last 3 games, retire, and live on. By firing him, it caused all sorts of unneeded violence and nonsense. If he were to finish the year and retire, there wouldnt be riots all accross the campus. It would have made this event much easier to swallow...

[WildBillyT]

I feel they could have handled it a lot better than firing him on the spot. There are 3 games left in the season, and the man said he was retiring. They should have let him coach the last 3 games, retire, and live on. By firing him, it caused all sorts of unneeded violence and nonsense. If he were to finish the year and retire, there wouldnt be riots all accross the campus. It would have made this event much easier to swallow...

Easy. The university is scared ****less and wants to do the "right" thing for a change.

[BonzoHansen]

lmao at all the internettings on this topic. no one knows what the real facts are except the principal players and they are not talking.

[sweetbmxrider]

http://cdn.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/touched.jpg

[Jersey Mike]

I still think we only know 5% of the facts. I suspect the tentacles on this case will run much deeper.


This. [sigh] All kinds of stuff comes out of the woodwork as soon as it seems like things are under control.

[LTb1ow]

This. [sigh] All kinds of stuff comes out of the woodwork as soon as it seems like things are under control.

He obviously killed and buried people under the football field. Or thats what I heard.

[Jersey Mike]

You joke, but there's some theory about PSU & Ray Gricar--the 2005 missing PA DA who's wife worked for PSU.


Imagine? :lol: yikes.

[BigAls87Z28]

IMO it was time to go. No only did he do wrong in not reporting it to the cops, but how much longer was he going to be the head coach anyways?? :?:

There is a massive difference to leave as head coach of a huge popular school where you created a great legacy of football teams and players on your own terms, vs being forced out due to a molestation scandal that he was aware of.

[mc73nova]

Paterno did what he was supposed to by reporting it to his higher authority but once he realized nothing further was being done he should have stepped up. How can someone being a father and grandfather feel that he did all he could after realizing nothing ever came of the situation. To be honest reading through the Grand jury report was almost impossible because of what was being described by the victims. Penn State is doing the right thing by washing their hands of people that were knowledgeable of the situation. There are so many things going on in the collegiate world these days, these University's are being forced to take action and not let things fly under the radar anymore. Its about time too, no one is above the law and unfortunately it is happening eight victims too late. It is a joke if people honestly think he did all he could. There are some things you shouldn't go above your supervisor about, this is certainly not one of them.

[79T/A]

Having read the Grand Jury statement posted above, I honestly believe that the true blame for this atrocity rests at the highest level, at least from a LEGAL standpoint. It says very clearly that Pennsylvania law dictates that it is the responsibility of the administration of the school to report the abuse to the proper authorities. It was very clearly not done, and both of the administrators involved (No surprise that one of them was in charge of the money) were deemed not credible witnesses.

I'm not ready to hang Jo Pa or the graduate assistant for their inaction. While we can all argue as to their moral and ethical responsibilities as human beings, the bottom line is that going by the statement provided, they reported their findings up through their chain of command and those ultimately responsible for informing the police failed to do so, preferring to sweep everything under the carpet. It can be argued that when nothing further happened, they should have gone over their bosses' heads and reported it to the police, but we're not talking about a couple of guys flipping burgers or being greeters in WalMart. We're talking about two men with dream jobs that they worked their whole lives for. While ultimately wrong at the core (And apparently Jo Pa himself was quoted as saying that he should have done more), how many of you would be willing to risk everything you've worked for in an instance like this, and risk having to find another means of feeding your family and keeping a roof over their heads? I'm not saying that it's right, just that I understand why it would be difficult.

Ultimately, the blame lies with Sandusky himself. He has not only ruined the lives of at least eight (Known) victims and their families; he's ruined the reputation of his own charitable organization, PSU, and his own family. He may very well not see prison because I wouldn't be surprised if he takes his own life.

[mc73nova]

Paterno was in his 70's when he found out, its not like he just got his big break, he didnt need to worry about anything. Is a job worth risking for the well being of other human beings, in that instance, yes. If they would fire you over reporting something like that then their is obviously something wrong with them. I'm not attacking you, it just amazes me that people actually think he did enough or shouldn't have risked his job for it. Clearly the "what if's" are pointless as well because Im sure people would say I wouldnt care if I lost my job because I dont make the money he does. Then again, what if it was someone you knew that was the victim or even a relative, would his reasoning still be good enough then. No matter what, this is way bigger than Paterno and his career, its about the innocent children that had tough lives to begin with only to be betrayed by a man who was supposed to be there to help. I hope they keep him under supervision 24/7 so he cant kill himself and deal with the consequences. These people have to live with this for the rest of their lives, so should he.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Paterno was in his 70's when he found out, its not like he just got his big break, he didnt need to worry about anything. Is a job worth risking for the well being of other human beings, in that instance, yes. If they would fire you over reporting something like that then their is obviously something wrong with them. I'm not attacking you, it just amazes me that people actually think he did enough or shouldn't have risked his job for it. Clearly the "what if's" are pointless as well because Im sure people would say I wouldnt care if I lost my job because I dont make the money he does. Then again, what if it was someone you knew that was the victim or even a relative, would his reasoning still be good enough then. No matter what, this is way bigger than Paterno and his career, its about the innocent children that had tough lives to begin with only to be betrayed by a man who was supposed to be there to help. I hope they keep him under supervision 24/7 so he cant kill himself and deal with the consequences. These people have to live with this for the rest of their lives, so should he.




lol what are you talking about dude. paterno had no evidence nor did he eyewitness anything. in paterno's defense he brought it up to the people he should have and it was on the university at that point to do something about it. paterno without proper evidence probably just dismissed it as rumors to ruin a guys career. remember INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. but i guess everyone here is on their high horse and cant give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[BonzoHansen]

It's obvious s*it went down. JP ran that place, what he says goes. He said nothing. Total moral failure. Everyone that knew about this needs to go. The more I read the more I think he needed to go sooner rather than later.

[88WS-6]

From what I have heard he did not see anything 1st hand. He was told by another coach. They then turned in that info to the school. There was also a police investigation that turned up nothing. My guess is this 70-ish year old man at the time wanted to believe in his friend and no one could prove anything. I could be rather wrong. I suspect the real facts are not out yet. Now, paterno seemed to rule the roost there and if he said jump they said how high, so he could have had the guy removed and did not. That is his downfall here I think, at least based on actual public knowledge at this point.

I suspect more facts will come out that will make joe p look worse, based on the penn state actions. although my experience with higher is ed is they are more ****ed up than governments. knee jerk worked out well for the duke lacrosse team.

That's it right there. He's Joe f-ing Paterno. He could have told the police his own mother did it and they would have looked into it. He should have done more and he should feel bad about it. Some people say that he shouldn't go over anyone's heads but wake up. He was king of the castle. He had been there for decades longer than anyone else.

If he had gone to the police and make it public, then what? Sandusky gets caught and no more children are hurt. Maybe Joe Pa gets fired for his actions but then the whole country demands his job back and he's an even bigger legend there.

[MyFirstZ]

If women who go after younger guys are considered cougers, are older men who go after younger boys considered nittany lions?

[88WS-6]

Ouch

[LTb1ow]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-10-2011/penn-state-riots?xrs=synd_facebook

[WildBillyT]

lol what are you talking about dude. paterno had no evidence nor did he eyewitness anything. in paterno's defense he brought it up to the people he should have and it was on the university at that point to do something about it. paterno without proper evidence probably just dismissed it as rumors to ruin a guys career. remember INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY. but i guess everyone here is on their high horse and cant give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Paterno is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

We aren't talking what's legally right surrounding his departure in particular.

He's not being charged at present

He's not going to go to prison at present

All the man did was lose his job for being too apathetic. In a lot of cases you don't need evidence of anything to fire somebody. It's not any type of legal proceeding. There was rumors of sexual assault in his locker room and all he did was contact his superiors (according to the court documents). It's not like it was a rumor of some guy stealing copy paper or q-tips from the trainer's office. It was rape. Of a child.

He made a bad judgement call and got fired for it. That happens every day. Why should he be special?

[LTb1ow]

Paterno is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

We aren't talking what's legally right surrounding his departure in particular.

He's not being charged at present

He's not going to go to prison at present

All the man did was lose his job for being too apathetic. In a lot of cases you don't need evidence of anything to fire somebody. It's not any type of legal proceeding. There was rumors of sexual assault in his locker room and all he did was contact his superiors (according to the court documents). He made a bad judgement call and got fired for it. That happens every day. Why should he be special?

Americans adore football.

He was a great coach.

Therefore, he can do no wrong.

[WildBillyT]

Americans adore football.

He was a great coach.

Therefore, he can do no wrong.

Exactly. Guy was a great coach but made a ****** moral judgement. Why shouldn't he be called on it in any way?

[Slow-V6]

So if a older student witnesses my kid getting molested in the bathroom by an assistant coach at school, doesnt do anything but tells the head coach of football. The Head coach tells his boss and then nothing happens is that right? Isnt it the Head Coachs job/responsibility as a human to follow up especially since nothing has happend and you see the assistant coach every day? Paterno shouldnt go to jail but it was right that he got fired and that it will tarnish his legacy. My mom was a 3rd grade teacher and they got training on how to handle these situations. You tell your bosses but you also follow up. Paterno is the biggest name in State College. He basically was a God up there.. All he had to do was after a few days of nothing happening report it himself to the police..

[91chevywt]

There's at least one instance where the police were informed of an incident, if you read the report. Who's to say the police weren't part of sweeping it under the rug? The whole situation is bigger than where it's at right now. Seems Paterno has been shoved out to the front of this as a sacrifice by those whom bear the most responsibility.

It looks like Sandusky's "Second Mile Foundation" along with the PSU admin. need to be scrutinized more than they have been. As long as Paterno is being focused on, those truly responsible parties have more time for damage control. If there's any credibility to the surfacing child trafficking rumors, this could be much bigger than it is now.

[WildBillyT]

There's at least one instance where the police were informed of an incident, if you read the report. Who's to say the police weren't part of sweeping it under the rug? The whole situation is bigger than where it's at right now. Seems Paterno has been shoved out to the front of this as a sacrifice by those whom bear the most responsibility.

It looks like Sandusky's "Second Mile Foundation" along with the PSU admin. need to be scrutinized more than they have been. As long as Paterno is being focused on, those truly responsible parties have more time for damage control. If there's any credibility to the surfacing child trafficking rumors, this could be much bigger than it is now.

I think Paterno's out in front certainly because he's the most famous and revered but also because he's the only one you can really debate- since it's a moral judgement call and everybody is different. Nobody argues about:

Sandusky- The Pedo
Schultz- Perjury, so far
Curley- Perjury, so far
Spanier- PA law, so far

As they all broke a law.

McQueary is the only outlier in my opinion.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Paterno is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

We aren't talking what's legally right surrounding his departure in particular.

He's not being charged at present

He's not going to go to prison at present

All the man did was lose his job for being too apathetic. In a lot of cases you don't need evidence of anything to fire somebody. It's not any type of legal proceeding. There was rumors of sexual assault in his locker room and all he did was contact his superiors (according to the court documents). It's not like it was a rumor of some guy stealing copy paper or q-tips from the trainer's office. It was rape. Of a child.

He made a bad judgement call and got fired for it. That happens every day. Why should he be special?




i meant Paterno probably gave the guy the benefit of the doubt when he heard the report. he turned him in and the investigation turned up nothing.

[WildBillyT]

i meant Paterno probably gave the guy the benefit of the doubt when he heard the report. he turned him in and the investigation turned up nothing.

I understand that we as regular schmoes do not have access to all the behind the scenes data. But according to sworn testimony there was no investigation, just a few meetings among a few staff members. Nobody else looked in to it until much later. And that is illegal in the state of PA.

Not for nothing, but if what McQueary said was true it would have been easy to build a case and prove guilt.

[LTb1ow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cXDgFwE13g

/thread

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cXDgFwE13g

/thread



terrible terrible ''artist''

[KirkEvil]

terrible terrible ''artist''

I meant the video foo

[LTb1ow]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/jerry_sandusky_continues_to_re.html

lulz

[WildBillyT]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/jerry_sandusky_continues_to_re.html

lulz

Just wait until the governor gets involved.

[BonzoHansen]

Just wait until the governor gets involved.

pension law is tough to negotiate. it will all come down to wrong doing at the work place.

[Tru2Chevy]

pension law is tough to negotiate. it will all come down to wrong doing at the work place.

What about wrong doing at the workplace after your retirement?

- Justin

[WildBillyT]

pension law is tough to negotiate. it will all come down to wrong doing at the work place.

What if you are convicted of a felony?

[LTb1ow]

What if you are convicted of a felony?

You prob get more money.

[BonzoHansen]

What if you are convicted of a felony?

if it is outside of your scope of duties, probably no impact. DUI is a felony but if it wasn't at work it might just be a termination. So just the usual vesting & service rules apply.

each pension is a specific contract and each one can have it's own provisions. so if the issue leads to your dismissal that may or may not forfeit the pension, depending on how it is written. we are talking about a state employee plan here, so my guess is the rules favor the employee so they'd have to found guilt of high misconduct on the job if that. that plan would have been written by politicians who are in the plan, so what is your guess on forfeiture rules?

[88WS-6]

Earlier this year Irvington's mayor was convicted of taking kickbacks and they are still debating his pension. I'm not sure how PA law is, but if it's close to NJ then they may still be paid after serving prison and even during the sentence.


http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2011/05/commit_a_crime_lose_your_pensi.html

[sweetbmxrider]

we are talking about a state employee plan here, so my guess is the rules favor the employee so they'd have to found guilt of high misconduct on the job if that. that plan would have been written by politicians who are in the plan, so what is your guess on forfeiture rules?

I hope ****ing a 10 year old boy in the ass counts as high misconduct.

[BonzoHansen]

I hope ****ing a 10 year old boy in the ass counts as high misconduct.

It will probably depend on if it happened at/during work, and if not if the pension has some kind of morals clause. I would be surprised if a state works plan has a non-work issues morals clause.

[LS1ow]

i havent really followed whats going on. whenever its on sportscenter or anything i change the channel. i have some friends that go to penn state, and they tell me the moral around campus is really down. JoePa was a huge part of there spirit.

[WildBillyT]

i havent really followed whats going on. whenever its on sportscenter or anything i change the channel. i have some friends that go to penn state, and they tell me the moral around campus is really down. JoePa was a huge part of there spirit.

Although you meant morale, your typo is still applicable.

[LS1ow]

Although you meant morale, your typo is still applicable.

(y)

[LTb1ow]

(y)

Lack of morale, meaning their douchnozzle coach is gone and they lost epicly last weekend.

Lack of moral, their douchnozzle coach lets old men rape little boys.

[LS1ow]

Lack of morale, meaning their douchnozzle coach is gone and they lost epicly last weekend.

Lack of moral, their douchnozzle coach lets old men rape little boys.

i see what you did there

[NastyEllEssWon]

he still didnt do anything wrong. he did what he was supposed to do. he cant just crucify someone he's known a long time after police investigation and school investigation turn up nothing. anyone can easily make the claim someone is fiddling with kids, doesnt make it true.

[BonzoHansen]

the more I hear and read he was completely complicit in covering up child molestation to protect the program. Unforgivable.

[Jersey Mike]

Sandusky crucified himself today. Read in the paper today that he told NBC or some one that had showered with some kids--as a "after practice, hit the showers" type deal--but wasn't a pedophile. He's ****ed, and rightfully so.


PSU, as a whole, is going to suffer from this in so many ways.

[LTb1ow]

Sandusky crucified himself today. Read in the paper today that he told NBC or some one that had showered with some kids--as a "after practice, hit the showers" type deal--but wasn't a pedophile. He's ****ed, and rightfully so.


PSU, as a whole, is going to suffer from this in so many ways.

Yea, no more big ass football budget for a loooonggg time.

[LS1ow]

Yea, no more big ass football budget for a loooonggg time.

sweet now i have a chance to go to D1 school and play.

[LTb1ow]

sweet now i have a chance to go to D1 school and play.

lulz, with the cleaning house that will most likely come about, you could go coach there

[Jersey Mike]

If you live out of state, you go to PSU for 2 reasons: the football program, and the abundance of cute white girls who love football.

Fairly good campus/off-campus life, but when the football program is sucking a fatty, I doubt the morale and communal pride will still be there. I have a few friends who graduated from PSU, and a couple have already called in and asked to be removed from mailing lists, removed decals/magnets from their cars, and are extremely pissed (either at one side, or the other).

[LS1ow]

If you live out of state, you go to PSU for 2 reasons: the football program, and the abundance of cute white girls who love football.

Fairly good campus/off-campus life, but when the football program is sucking a fatty, I doubt the morale and communal pride will still be there. I have a few friends who graduated from PSU, and a couple have already called in and asked to be removed from mailing lists, removed decals/magnets from their cars, and are extremely pissed (either at one side, or the other).

yes.

white girls gone wild, we dont judge em doe

[Frosty]

the more I hear and read he was completely complicit in covering up child molestation to protect the program. Unforgivable.

This ^^

[BonzoHansen]

If you live out of state, you go to PSU for 2 reasons: the football program, and the abundance of cute white girls who love football.

Fairly good campus/off-campus life, but when the football program is sucking a fatty, I doubt the morale and communal pride will still be there. I have a few friends who graduated from PSU, and a couple have already called in and asked to be removed from mailing lists, removed decals/magnets from their cars, and are extremely pissed (either at one side, or the other).

The PSU alumni network in monstrous. That is a huge reason to go there. That matters if you are going to school to learn prepare to move into the professional world. Plus I don’t think you get a bad education there.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Sandusky crucified himself today. Read in the paper today that he told NBC or some one that had showered with some kids--as a "after practice, hit the showers" type deal--but wasn't a pedophile. He's ****ed, and rightfully so.


PSU, as a whole, is going to suffer from this in so many ways.

Yeah, while his lawyer was on the show (who had a kid with an 18 year old when he was 49) Sandusky called in. They covered it on the Daily Show last night. He kept repeating questions too. :lol:

[Frosty]

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/joepas-real-estate-move-raises-suspicious-eyebrows

Interesting...

[WildBillyT]

he still didnt do anything wrong. he did what he was supposed to do. he cant just crucify someone he's known a long time after police investigation and school investigation turn up nothing. anyone can easily make the claim someone is fiddling with kids, doesnt make it true.

Jay,

Just to be clear, in the 2002 incident there was no police investigation. Just the 3 other administrators who are currently under fire for mishandling it. One of the reasons they are in trouble is because they were required to report it and they did not.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i just. i dunno man. its Paterno man. I don't condone nor excuse pedophilia but Paterno's only fault here is doing the bare minimum while giving his employee the benefit of the doubt. Think about this from Paterno's perspective. If someone came up to you today and told you that someone who knew you for years was slapping ass with kids in the showers, you would have a hard time believing it too....its that repulsive. From Paterno's perspective he was damned if he did, damned if he didnt. Rock. Meet Hard Place.

[sweetbmxrider]

Just because you know someone doesn't mean you know someone. And I'm sure there were other times things were said or suspicions were had, yet nothing came of it.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i refuse to crucify the man prior to the full story. on a side note yes he did drop the ball and let down those children, but what about all the other thousands of lives he's changed in his tenure...do we just forget about all the good he did because someone close to him screwed up royally and he's being the scapegoat?

[sweetbmxrider]

With American media, yes.

[BonzoHansen]

He knew and turned his head. Yes, that erases a lot of good things in my book. We aren't talking about knowing his players were breaking curfew rules or whatever. This is destroying the lives of young children. You absolutely have to weigh the crimes in this case.

I thought this was an interesting interview.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio-on-demand/mike-francesa-1/#

Matt Paknis - With Mike Francesa
November 15, 2011

Former Penn State Grad Assistant Matt Paknis talks about the culture of Penn State Football in a reveling inverview with Mike Francesa

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2Fd9%2Fd8%2FdM%2FZ98M_3.MP3%3Fauthtok %3D5561617826471556307_FW1kO8Wq8hvbAGJTdv96RTwMVY&podcast_name=Matt+Paknis+-+With+Mike+Francesa&podcast_artist=Mike+Francesa&station_id=62&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.NY

[NastyEllEssWon]

He knew and turned his head. Yes, that erases a lot of good things in my book. We aren't talking about knowing his players were breaking curfew rules or whatever. This is destroying the lives of young children. You absolutely have to weigh the crimes in this case.

I thought this was an interesting interview.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio-on-demand/mike-francesa-1/#

Matt Paknis - With Mike Francesa
November 15, 2011

Former Penn State Grad Assistant Matt Paknis talks about the culture of Penn State Football in a reveling inverview with Mike Francesa



he knew of ALLEGATIONS. innocent until proven guilty. he cant just throw someone to the wolves over allegations especially when there was a police investigation that turned up nothing.

[LTb1ow]

he knew of ALLEGATIONS. innocent until proven guilty. he cant just throw someone to the wolves over allegations especially when there was a police investigation that turned up nothing.

With American media, yes.

This.

[WildBillyT]

he knew of allegations. Innocent until proven guilty. He cant just throw someone to the wolves over allegations especially when there was a police investigation that turned up nothing.

Dude, for the last time- he's not in a legal proceeding.

Where is Paterno being charged in a court of law?

[LTb1ow]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s

http://vicorientation.ca/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/AndHereWeGo.gif

[sweetbmxrider]

For some reason I just thought of the south park with the catholic priests molesting boys. And the adventure club. And nambla.

[BonzoHansen]

he knew of ALLEGATIONS. innocent until proven guilty. he cant just throw someone to the wolves over allegations especially when there was a police investigation that turned up nothing.

mcquerey told paterno the guy was molesting a 10 year old in the shower, and it seems he did not sugar coat it. And now it seems very apparent paterno knew about issues before that. the man didn't earn the nickname God for a reason. he knew about everything there. Then the whole women's sports thing he swept under the rug years ago. so he has a track record of sweeping stuff up.

time for a little business 101: here is how being upper management works. if s**t goes down on your watch, you get fired, regardless of what you knew. it's called responsibility and the buck stops at his desk. whether it was raping 10 year old boys or turning an eye to securities fraud. Board of directors have fired CEOs for less.

#2: Fired <> arrested. You are not innocent until proven guilty at work. just like he decided the program was more important than little kids, the school has now decided it is more important than him. he loses. welcome to life. Fair? matters not. I gave the old man the benefit of the doubt at the beginning. but every day it looks worse. he had to go.

My sense is if it were your kid you'd have a different opinion. but I believe you are just backing the old man here because no one else is and that is what you do with every thread like this, argue the alternative to stir the pot.

[greenformula92]

if you think its ugly now....all the details haven't come out yet. its only gonna get uglier and uglier...kind of like the rumor about Sandusky's charity pimping out boys

[NastyEllEssWon]

I believe you are just backing the old man here because no one else is and that is what you do with every thread like this, argue the alternative to stir the pot.




Not at all. I've been a Penn State fan since I was a kid. Regardless of what happened I seriously DO NOT think that Paterno had hard evidence of anything going on. Until they prove he did, I refuse to believe he did. Paterno did a lot of good.



edit: i haven't derailed a thread here in a very long time. so your point is invalid anymore :D

[Frosty]

I don't think anyone is saying Paterno didn't do a lot of good. He built that program, put that school on the map, donated millions of dollars. That's not the debate. The debate is whether or not he knew about what was going on and if he was part of the cover-up. All information and testimony is saying he absolutely did. Is it hard to believe? Yes. Is it disgraceful? Absolutely. Just because the man was the head of a football program doesn't mean he's immune to having his actions questioned or analyzed. Everyone has skeletons in their closets, even the "good" guys make mistakes. He's human just like all of us...and just like all of us there are consequences to poor decisions or in this case inaction.

[BigAls87Z28]

He had to have known. If anyone works in a building with a large amount of people, you are BOUND to find out all the little private details about Sussie's date the other night, or how Larry banged the girl in logistics. For Paterno not to know this massive event to happen over a 20 year stretch...impossible.

[Tru2Chevy]

he knew of allegations. Innocent until proven guilty. He cant just throw someone to the wolves over allegations especially when there was a police investigation that turned up nothing.
Dude, for the last time- he's not in a legal proceeding.

Where is Paterno being charged in a court of law?

I could be wrong, but my take on Jay's comments about "innocent until proven guilty" are that he was making reference to sandusky, not paterno. I read his comments as him saying that, at the time, there was no proof that sandusky had been raping young boys, and there had even been a police investigation into prior allegations against sandusky that resulted in no charges being filed against him, so paterno likely didn't think it was actually happening, or at least not to the extent that the details in the grand jury report say that it is. Thinking in this mindset, merely reporting the info to his superiors and washing his hands of the entire matter doesn't seem so bad.

At least that's how I interpret what Jay was trying to say.

- Justin

[Frosty]

Yeah, that's what he's saying.

[NastyEllEssWon]

yes thats what im saying. after an investigation from the school and police officials paterno probably just chalked it up to false allegations for some type of grudge. thats how im viewing it. it was reported again and now evidence turned up....how is that paternos fault. seems to me those running prior investigations just dropped the ball and now paterno is a scapegoat

[WildBillyT]

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12699159-report-finds-penn-state-president-paterno-concealed-facts-about-sandusky-sex-abuse?lite

PDF is up as well.

[elle]

Anyone who didn't think paterno looked the other way.........

Tear that statue down!

[LTb1ow]

Isn't this guy dead and the other guy in jail?

[WildBillyT]

Other d00dz involved too.

[NastyEllEssWon]

innocent until proven guilty....seems now is the point to where the innocence is depleted. i quite just dont know what to say about this turn of events

[WildBillyT]

A wall of plaques near the statue also contains a Paterno quote: "They asked me what I'd like written about me when I'm gone. I hope they write I've made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach."

Sorry Joe but you hoped wrong. Looks like they are even taking down the statue this weekend.

[LTb1ow]

Will the statue be destroyed or auctioned off?

[Jersey Mike]

So much for being remembered for the positives and not the negatives.

This statue out-roar isn't something the university brought up, correct--It's something some coaches and then the media brought up? The board/president are sending a message either which way they go here, and it's going to be interpreted/misinterpreted accordingly: A) Reputation is king, a la the NCAA/half-the-public. "We'll fold and sell you out if it there's enough pressure to do so." B) We *don't* care what the mobs say, and I'm sorry student athletes, but we're taking our chances with the NCAA. "We support child rape."

[BonzoHansen]

when you help cover up and in essence enable child molestation, the goods suddenly pale in comparison.

[Jersey Mike]

when you help cover up and in essence enable child molestation, the goods suddenly pale in comparison.

I think the conflict lies in the hypocrisy involved. The cover up, as all cover-ups are, was a decision made with reputation, public image, and future in mind. PSU-Admin may be getting steam-rolled, but the argument is, by tearing down the statue, they may only be motivated by these same thing that JoePa was guilty of. They'd be looking out for PSU's reputation with the media, their name being kept off the internet comment boards, and their admissions/athletics departments not taking a substantial hit.

I'm definitely interested to see how this plays out, as it's a tough decision to make, since everyone there's a Journalist/Lawyer/Vigilante behind every communication device.

[BonzoHansen]

wait, i'm lost. are you saying the JP statues stays or goes? who is the hypocrit? JP was as involved in the cover up as anyone. My understanding is if he were still alive he'd be facing the same very real chances of criminal charges as the other penn state folks.

[Jersey Mike]

Agreed. Unless there was some statue of limitations absolving him, I think he would on trial right now as well. I'm not sure what would actually stick, and what wouldn't, but this isn't a court room, and I'm more of a Law "enthusiast" than an expert on all things legal.

As for the statue's fate, I was more so trying to spark some thought and conversation on the decision to come, it's acceptance, consequences, and motivating factors. I, personally, don't have a dog in the fight, but if you're asking my take, then I can try to explain in a few sentences:

In short, I think it should stay on campus. I'm on the fence as to if it should remain outside the stadium, or be moved over to the library he put up on campus. I know that over his career, he did a lot for that campus, and that shouldn't be forgotten. The dark spot of his career is the mid/late 90s, when he and the others swept Sandusky under the rug shouldn't be forgotten either. But I don't think that should define Paterno's entire legacy. Whether it will or not, will yet to be seen, but my money is on the former. This sentiment may not be popular but, in a nutshell, there is more to that book than this one chapter, and I would hate to see this become the title.

[elle]

A whole life's acomplishments ruined.

[BigAls87Z28]

This just in: $60 mill in fines, 4 year bowl ban, and forfeit all wins from '98-'11. This removes Paterno's rank as coach with the most wins.

[LTb1ow]

So you punish the current players and potentially hurt the schools ability to gain new players to make the NCAA look like it takes the actions of a dead guy and a guy convicted and in jail seriously.

Seems legit.

[WildBillyT]

So you punish the current players and potentially hurt the schools ability to gain new players to make the NCAA look like it takes the actions of a dead guy and a guy convicted and in jail seriously.

Seems legit.

I think it's more of a combo breaker- To stop the "we can do whatever we want" mentality.

And hey, **** happens. How many innocent people get screwed every time a CEO does something dumb and destroys a corporation?

[Mike]

So you punish the current players and potentially hurt the schools ability to gain new players to make the NCAA look like it takes the actions of a dead guy and a guy convicted and in jail seriously.

Seems legit.

The alternative was a year or more of no football program. Which would punish the current players more. There are games. So they can play so they can still go pro or whatever their plans are.

Players can also transfer and play immediately at another school. They are waving the normal year off for players that transfer

[BonzoHansen]

and they can keep their scholarships even if they don't play.

[Jersey Mike]

I hate the NCAA corporate. Good that the current players won't be punished, but still rubs me the wrong way. No pun.

[BigAls87Z28]

It only hurts those who really really really really want to play for PSU and you are good enough to qualify for a football scholarship.

It's sad and I think that they should continue everything, but have every cent of profit from the games go to the victims and/or charity.

[BonzoHansen]

They are we'll playing, just no bowl games. And I think that is where that 60000000 is going.

[greenformula92]

The bowl games is what hurt. thats the money makers. the regular season games don't really mean much financially. Players that are good enough that decide to stay at PSU will still be noticed by scouts and what not. but the bowl games are most definatly hurt PSU as a whole and not just the players or the program.

[BigAls87Z28]

The major problem will be a drop in endorsements and advertising at the stadium. That is a cash-cow, and who would want to advertise at a school with no bowl chances, won't have any major talent attracted to it for the next 4 years, not to mention the whole stigma of the entire situation.

[Jersey Mike]

The major problem will be a drop in endorsements and advertising at the stadium. That is a cash-cow, and who would want to advertise at a school with no bowl chances, won't have any major talent attracted to it for the next 4 years, not to mention the whole stigma of the entire situation.

This is the biggie ^^. We'll see at the end of the fiscal year. General admissions is going to take another hit as well.

[madness410]

fair punishment for the university. i just hope it sends the message out and deters other university employees at other schools who may fall into the same position.

usually the first time you fail to act when you should, the problem snowballs downhill and creates an even larger problem as an end result. had paterno not tried to cover up the situation and it had been reported, penn state wouldnt be seeing this harsh of punishment, it all would have fallen on sandusky, and who knows how many childrens lives wouldnt have been ruined..

[edpontiac91]

fair punishment for the university. i just hope it sends the message out and deters other university employees at other schools who may fall into the same position.

usually the first time you fail to act when you should, the problem snowballs downhill and creates an even larger problem as an end result. had paterno not tried to cover up the situation and it had been reported, penn state wouldnt be seeing this harsh of punishment, it all would have fallen on sandusky, and who knows how many childrens lives wouldnt have been ruined..

+3 The really sick part is how many children suffered because of this. What is their mental state? How did the SYSTEM at PSU look the "OTHER WAY" to benefit the football team? ANY awards the team picked up during that time period of abuse should be stricken from the books. Let this be a lesson to ANY other industry who tries to cover up these crimes.

I am also shocked that when that janitor saw what was happening to that boy (in the wash room) that he did not try to stop it, or at the least, when he reported it, follow up on what action was done to look into that act.