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View Full Version : Residential Natural Gas issue... confused.


V
12-13-2011, 09:43 AM
The house is a legal 2 family house, with one line coming into the house and separate gas meters in the basement.

On Sunday morning I got a call from my mother that the heat is off and that the gas burners in the kitchen won't light. I checked and the heat for the upstairs was working fine, furnace would come on and everything. Of course I asked if she paid the bill, and yes, she did. Therefore, I told her to call the gas company and have them send someone out. Well after 30+ minutes on hold, we finally explained our issue and about an hour later a man was at our door to take a look.

Once in the kitchen, he tries the stove, and of course it now works. Isn't that always how things work. Anyways, in the basement he could see that the pilot for the furnace was out anyways meaning something could have happened with the gas flow. I explain that the gas upstairs is working with the furnace and since the only variable between the two lines were the 2 meters, he decided to install a new meter just in case it was faulty. He did the job quick and made sure to re-light all the furnace and stove pilot lights before he left. Heat then continued to work and my mom made a big batch of cookies that afternoon with no issues.

Now yesterday afternoon, when i was talking to my mom in her kitchen, I heard a lot of running water in the walls and such. I commented on it and she said it was the heat pipes(hot water baseboard heating) I didn't think much more of it since I assumed I just wasn't use to it.

Now this morning while still in bed, I get another call from my mother saying the heat is off again and the stove won't light as well. So I tell her to call the gas company again and up I get. Once again I go check the gas for the upstairs unit. And like on Sunday, it's very toasty and heat going strong. So I turn down the thermostat to shut if off and go back downstairs. In the basement again I see the upstairs furnace was obviously just on and good to go, downstairs furnace is cold yet I could here the water system of the furnace still pumping water through the lines and house. That's why the sound of the running water caught my attention more. Being that the water was cold, it didn't pressurize the copper lines and in turn sounded different. That would mean the gas went off Monday afternoon sometime. Back to my moms kitchen I went and to my confusion the gas burners now lit.

So then I came up with a theory... On Sunday, I had turned off the heat upstairs prior to the gas company repairman arriving. And also today, I turned off the heat before trying the downstairs stove. I was thinking maybe the gas supply wasn't enough to feed both units. So I ran back upstairs and cranked the heat up. I checked in the basement to make sure that furnace was on. Then about 5 min later I tried to turn on my moms kitchen stove. Nothing. Just a tiny little flame barely visible. Now I was perplexed. Upstairs I went and shut off the heat. I then kept trying the burners until about 10 good attempts later they came on and worked fully. From then on, they would light fine. So once again I cranked the heat upstairs and played with the burners. After several on/off cycles, once again they stopped working. After doing this process several times, as convincing as it was, I still couldn't not get a definite correlation. The 3rd or 4th time I was trying I went to the basement to check any meter flow readings and I heard the upstairs furnace burners "blow out". Now maybe that's how they shut off... but it almost seemed as if the gas had "run out".

At that point I gave up and told me mom to let the gas company figure it out, or a plumber even if need be. Well, gas repairman came this morning and looked at everything and concluded it was probably just a "bubble of air" after the install of the new gas meter. I didn't speak to him nor see what he checked and I asked my mother if she mentioned my theory. She did not.

The gas is on now and working, but I highly doubt this dilemma is over. I can't see how an "air bubble" would remain after it was working fine for 24hrs and then cause it to work intermittently this morning. I bet we'll be calling the gas company again before dark.

Anyone have any similar experiences, theories, information, or conclusions???

V
12-13-2011, 04:01 PM
really? it confuses everyone else too? lol

WildBillyT
12-13-2011, 04:02 PM
I am not really sure without starting to spitball. He replaced the meter, but what about the regulator itself?

V
12-13-2011, 04:05 PM
As far as I know theres no main regulator. The supply pipe comes in the house, splits to the 2 meters, and then from the meter it splits and runs to the furnace, hot water heater, and up to kitchen. All are basically separate. And all are affected so its either the meter or a blockage in the line.

WildBillyT
12-13-2011, 04:18 PM
As far as I know theres no main regulator. The supply pipe comes in the house, splits to the 2 meters, and then from the meter it splits and runs to the furnace, hot water heater, and up to kitchen. All are basically separate. And all are affected so its either the meter or a blockage in the line.

I was thinking blockage as a possibility as well.

But in my house I have the gas coming in via a meter and then a disk-style regulator before(?) it.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/66/66,1098471466,1/stock-photo-illustration-of-a-natural-gas-meter-set-with-regulator-16056.jpg

Tru2Chevy
12-13-2011, 06:35 PM
Have the gas company come out and check the gas pressure. I had hot water heater and stove issues several months ago, and the gas pressure coming into the house was only ~10% of what it should have been. PSE&G ended up having to dig up the road and replace a section of the gas main in front of my house because of corrosion.

- Justin

stoney2677
12-13-2011, 07:09 PM
there isn't always a regulator by the meter. if the pressure is low enough coming in, you don't need one nor a vent on the outside. i would def have them check the pressure coming in though. sounds like a good possibility its low.

V
12-18-2011, 08:33 PM
UPDATE:

well this morning the gas was out again...
I called around 2:30pm and someone finally showed up around 8pm or so.
I asked about possible low pressure and explained how it seemed the appliances are competing for the gas supply and causing each other to turn off.

Well, yes. The incoming pressure is considerably below what it should be. I dont know the numbers exactly but I think he said it should be around 5-7 Inches of water column and he was barely getting 2 inches.
So he placed a call and a crew is on their way tonight to come dig up the road and replace the supply line from the main to the house. They should get here between 10:30 and 11pm. The current line is the original line installed back when gas service was first brought to our area, circa. 1920s.

I guess none of my neighbors will be sleeping tonight.

Justin, I guess its just like your issue lol.

Tru2Chevy
12-18-2011, 08:42 PM
Yea, PSE&G told me they should see ~7" and they were seeing less than 1.

Hopefully this will solve all of your problems.

- Justin

S.J.SLEEPER
12-18-2011, 08:47 PM
under 3-4 you can definetl run into problems like this. Glad to see they are going to rectify the problem. my guess, since it is a 2 family home, you should have a 1 1/2" - 2" main.

V
12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
Furnace went out again early this morning. Seems as if it didn't solve the issue. Someones coming over within an hour.

They were outside in the street, basically just sitting, till almost 7am, and there's still a big hole in the road outside, lol.


EDIT, well another repairman just came, and apparently my whole neighborhood is having pressure issues. A guy down the street has been calling for a week now too. Last week they changed his meter as well. They have also been doing pressure testing at several homes. 2 blocks away there is a main pressure regulator in the ground that is faulty. They are trying to fix, bypass, or repair it right now. The guy said within a few hours everything should be up to pressure again. For now he recommended we only run one furnace at a time to prevent them from drawing down too low that one of the pilot lights go out again.

We shall see how it goes tonight....

V
03-05-2013, 05:40 PM
Figure I'd update this...

The issue was resolved. A few weeks prior to the pressure issue occurring, was the 2011 halloween storm that knocked out power to the area for a few days. During that time, there was a fatal accident at an intersection 2 blocks away due to the traffic light being out. At that intersection was the main regulator for the neighborhood. It got hit in the accident but only checked and not replaced. It had been damaged and a few weeks later, led to the low pressure issue. They replaced that regulator and all has been well...

However...

not that long ago, there has been a strong smell of natural gas in front of our house now. Our service is off of the other street so not a direct issue of our service.
I finally called the "report a gas leak" phone number today and they sent a guy out. About 45 min ago I was just outside talking to him as he was taking readings. about a foot off the street, he got a 100% reading for natural gas and the smell is obvious. It right behind one of our driveways. As for the reading I'm not sure if a 100% means 100% gas or just something else but there is definitely an underground leak. He actually parked his van right over it basically, lol. He took a few more readings outside and by the foundation then inside our basement. Inside we are fine but did get 2.9% outside the one wall. So, he was about to make the call to his supervisor in order to get a street crew out here now and dig up and fix the problem. fun fun. Hopefully I can sleep tonight, haha.

The Fixer
03-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Wow man, that's nuts! Hope they get it fixed up tonight before the crap weather shows up tomorrow. Good luck!

PS - when are you gonna call me about the bike parts? :)

V
03-05-2013, 05:54 PM
Wow man, that's nuts! Hope they get it fixed up tonight before the crap weather shows up tomorrow. Good luck!

PS - when are you gonna call me about the bike parts? :)

Friday maybe? lol. I go to school fulltime and randomly working with a unit at the Teaneck Armory to try to get them up to regulations for an inspection.
Add that onto planning a wedding and going to physical therapy... but no, I have not forgotten you.

Savage_Messiah
03-06-2013, 01:31 AM
If I hear an explosion and wake up, at least I'll know what happened...

The Fixer
03-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Friday maybe? lol. I go to school fulltime and randomly working with a unit at the Teaneck Armory to try to get them up to regulations for an inspection.
Add that onto planning a wedding and going to physical therapy... but no, I have not forgotten you.

No problem buddy, just figured I'd bust yer chops a bit! Good luck with everything going on! And I will offer a bit of advice on wedding plans - if you and your fiance' don't agree on something right away, just move on, and something better will work out. Whether it's the place, or DJ, or anything else, if it's not an instant connection for both of you, that means it's not the right thing. Made the start of my marriage very easy! :)

V
03-06-2013, 11:49 AM
No problem buddy, just figured I'd bust yer chops a bit! Good luck with everything going on! And I will offer a bit of advice on wedding plans - if you and your fiance' don't agree on something right away, just move on, and something better will work out. Whether it's the place, or DJ, or anything else, if it's not an instant connection for both of you, that means it's not the right thing. Made the start of my marriage very easy! :)

Luckily I'm not too picky on the wedding plans plus we both have similar tastes. We already have the venue and church booked, along with the DJ and photographer. She even has her dress and just ordered the brides maids dresses. So we did get a lot done in 2 months. 7 to go.

The Fixer
03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
Luckily I'm not too picky on the wedding plans plus we both have similar tastes. We already have the venue and church booked, along with the DJ and photographer. She even has her dress and just ordered the brides maids dresses. So we did get a lot done in 2 months. 7 to go.

Swweeeeeeeet, you guys are rolling along! It'll fly by before you know it, and then you'll look around like my wife and I do and say, "Wow, where did 10 years go?"

V
03-07-2013, 11:30 PM
Another update...

I can now lay claim to my very own sinkhole.




btw, after making a phone call at 11:30pm, PSE&G is outside yet again waiting on the street crew to show up sometime between now and maybe dawn...

wrong generation
03-07-2013, 11:37 PM
Guess I won't be the only one awake all night. Tonight then ? Lol

V
03-07-2013, 11:40 PM
the street crew will just be putting "something" in the hole to fill it temporarily. The guy who came out first said the 8'long x 2'wide x 5'deep hole they had dug out, back-filled and put asphalt over, is now filling up with water and "they might have hit a water pipe"... I can only laugh.

elle
03-08-2013, 06:31 AM
Wow.... hope it gets done