Friend looking for a 69 Camaro Coupe

[qwikz28]

Hello all-

A friend of mine's dream is a 69 Camaro coupe, and his GF is trying to make that a reality for him. She asked my help, and since I'm clueless, I'm asking yours.

Car should be a fixer-upper below 10k (but closer to 8k), but not too far gone. Actually, a car that is able to move under its own power would be grand. Must be a coupe, and not flexible on the year or price. SS preferable, but not required.

Now, my questions are as follows:
1. Is a car of this description able to be found at this price-point?
2. Can someone point me to information regarding what to look for when we see a car, and where we can find listings for a car?
And of course any other general words I can pass along to her.

Thanks.

[grazi]

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/2791037545.html

Do I get a finders fee

[WildBillyT]

IMO you will not get a running and driving numbers matching/papered SS for that price.

Given today's economy I think he can probably find an older restoration or solid rolling chassis for that price.

There is a ton of stuff to say, really.

Basics of Numbers:

1.) If it's got an "N" in the VIN, it's a Norwood car
2.) Vin should be 124379Nxxxxxx for Norwood, 124379Lxxxxxx for LA/Van Nuys
3.) Norwood cars have "X" codes on the trim tag under the hood:

X11: COULD be an SS but is too loose in meaning to be a deciding factor.
X22: SS396 with style trim
X33: Z/28 with style trim
X44: Base car
X55: SS350 without style trim
X66: SS396 with style trim
X77: Z/28 without style trim

With the exception being Norwood cars built before 12B, the second week of Dec 1968. If you come across a Norwood car without one and want help verifying it send me a PM. I know of a way to estimate that I will not publish.

4.) AT MINIMUM, numbers matching means the partial VIN on the pad and partial VIN on the trans match the VIN on the dashboard. Full numbers matching involves date codes on intakes, carbs, etc.

OE Equipment that an SS should have (although over time the car could be modified):

1.) SS got dual exhaust so it should have hangers on both sides
2.) SS should have stock 3/8" fuel lines
3.) SS will NOT have monoleaf rear springs. Multileaf only.
4.) SS350 could have a powerglide and a 10 bolt but it is very rare
5.) SS cars were required to have J52 front disc brakes. 4 wheel drums was not stock.
6.) Tire sticker denoting wheel size in the glove box will be at minimum 14x7. Chances are this was not modified when people messed with the car over the years
7.) Original SS hood has louvers or simulated vents on it. It will have reinforcements on the underside of the hood for this.

Non-SS cars could get dual exhaust, 12 bolts, Muncie transmissions, 350s, and 3/8" fuel lines so their presence does not mean it's an SS.

Regarding RS cars, there are a lot of clones out there but one way you can tell is the reverse lights out back. They should be by themselves on the tail panel. You can inspect the holes to see if they look factory or not.

Other crap

1.) No X code, no papers, not 100% real. That's the way it rolls. Even paperwork and "numbers matching" stampings are scrutinized for high dollar cars. However, if appears to be an all original car the build sheet may still exist under the rear seat, in the headliner, or on top of the gas tank. All the same, tread carefully if investment quality matters.

2.) IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY BUY A SPOT ROT. AND USE IT.

3.) Fenders, doors, hoods, and trunks bolt on. No biggie. Rear quarters and rear metal is expensive to replace.

4.) Floor pans are not hard to do. Rear Frame rails are. Check them right where the front leaf springs mount up to see if they are rotted. Hit them with a hammer and poke them with a screwdriver at the very least. This is deal-breaker territory.

5.) If he finds one he likes, crack open some catalogs with him and see what it would take to get it up to snuff.


Or hell, if it's local to me and you want me to look at it give me a call.

[WildBillyT]

Example.

This was a $2000 "steal" (minus my rims):

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/69_Camaro_X11/P1010132.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/69_Camaro_X11/pass_int.jpg

Ended up here:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/69_Camaro_X11/frontside.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/c1ade343.jpg

Car ended up needing everything but a roof. EVERYTHING. Frame rails to firewall.

[grazi]

Torq thrusts nice

[WildBillyT]

Torq thrusts nice

I admire your optimism in finding the glass half full. LOL.

[grazi]

Haha thanks. Life is a garden. Dig it

[BonzoHansen]

optimism is expensive lol.

I generally agree with WBT. You may trip on a fire sale but that is not the norm. I'd barely let my 67 go for $8000. And it has no drivetrain.

Now, if you friend dials back his want - like does it relly need to be a real SS, you'll get closer to real. I'd say don't pay for SS badges w/o proof it is an SS, but at that price point you aren't getting one anyway.

Add a 1 to the front of that number and you can get a nice, clean, fun driver.

[qwikz28]

The SS part is definitely flexible. She found a few scams that are listed at 6 or 7k and she now thinks that is the going rate.

Thanks for the info thus far. especially for that list Bill. I tried to hint at her that she is in way over her head but she wasn't having it.

By the way, this car is supposed to be a surprise, so I can't even ask him what it is he wants. Not my idea, I was just a resource tapped because I know enough about cars to do more than change my own oil.

[WildBillyT]

The SS part is definitely flexible. She found a few scams that are listed at 6 or 7k and she now thinks that is the going rate.

Thanks for the info thus far. especially for that list Bill. I tried to hint at her that she is in way over her head but she wasn't having it.

By the way, this car is supposed to be a surprise, so I can't even ask him what it is he wants. Not my idea, I was just a resource tapped because I know enough about cars to do more than change my own oil.

The surprise should be a picture of a '69 and a card that says it's OK to buy one. Too many variables and specifics in a toy car to just spring it on a budget. JMHO.

[maroman88]

now this is a girl u marry! good luck with the search

[BonzoHansen]

The SS part is definitely flexible. She found a few scams that are listed at 6 or 7k and she now thinks that is the going rate.

Thanks for the info thus far. especially for that list Bill. I tried to hint at her that she is in way over her head but she wasn't having it.

By the way, this car is supposed to be a surprise, so I can't even ask him what it is he wants. Not my idea, I was just a resource tapped because I know enough about cars to do more than change my own oil.

Take him to the atlantic city show at the end of february, then you can talk cars all day.

[JL8Jeff]

Very slim chance of finding anything decent in a 69 Camaro for under $15K. Even at that price most of them will be hiding stuff. And make sure she doesn't react too quickly if she thinks she finds something decent, it will most likely be a scam or a bondo'd up rust bucket so make sure someone else looks at a potential car with her/him.

[KevinW]

I agree with all the points here. The picture of the 69 with a permission note is a great idea! Half the fun is shopping for the Camaro (and getting an education!), if that step is missed, then he won't have the connection he needs to dig into it and make it his own. Too bad he is not closer to Central NJ, I and a bunch of other 1st gens could show up at his house along with the pic/note for a surprise.

Here is a rust NY 69 Camaro $7200 so far :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370579973313+&lgeo=1&viewitem=&vectorid=229466

[grazi]

I love the hideaway headlights on the RS

[jam01]

wow, i remember paying 800.00 for my first 67. heck my first car was a 69 chevelle that i paid 400.00, of course this was way in back in 1981. try hemming's news or the Atlantic city show, or even englishtown swap meet there used to be good deals there. good luck.

[1320B4U]

I've been in the game for a long time and a '69 plain jane for under 10 is a difficult score. An ss? If you find one it will be a rot box roller. Beggars can't be choosers esp for that price point. 69 is the pinnacle year in which everyone wants one, including me. I remember when '69 pace cars went for 12k used! I almost bought a 250-6 about 5 years back...marina blue/black strips unseen for 6500 in average shape w/bondo and i thought that was a great deal being it was drivable but upon inspection i just couldn't do a project of that magnitude. Just settle for any first gen if you can...a '69 bird can be bought on the cheap being its the 'step child' of the group. If that is what he wants, and it sounds like it is, check mid-west classifieds as their better on the body rot and consult Hemmings for listings. Also c/l those areas may yield some leads. For $9999, year one will sell you the repo uni-body...8-)

[grazi]

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/2791037545.html

I think this one ^ seems like a not bad project. Runs and interior looks decent. no?

[BonzoHansen]

Looks like an $8500 total project

[Lt1_8U]

Looks like an $8500 total project

i was going to say the same, god knows whats under that paint, and also the "new front fenders" could mean a bondo job and primer:facepalm:

[qwikz28]

Well I got a response back from her. I was mistaken, she actually wants an SS, wants it to be a 69, needing minimal body work, and her budget is 7k.

Where can I look to find an actual SS car that is in decent condition to show her the going price of them? She doesn't seem to believe me. All I know of is ebay, craigslist, and autotrader classic.

[Lt1_8U]

no way will you find a true ss with minimal body rot for 7, even as a roller with not rust they go for more than 7, ill do some research for ya though

[BonzoHansen]

tell her if she doesn't add a 2 or higher in front of that 7 she's buying a junker if she must have a real SS.


search the mecum site. you'll have to sign up, no big deal. real prices people are paying.


how do they plan on using the car? Only 2 mile ice cream jaunts? Power Tour? Somewhere in between?

[Lt1_8U]

http://www.cars-on-line.com/56325.html

x11 not sure if it is an ss but needs fenders quarter panel work and who knows what else, i mean its a vert but it still is 14,500 and its gonna have to be totally redone and touched over. rockers, doors 1/4 fenders, nose, interior, cowl panel.

[BonzoHansen]

A 14,500 total resto required. yikes. I'd buy a vin & a dynocorn first.

[Lt1_8U]

A 14,500 total resto required. yikes. I'd buy a vin & a dynocorn first.

me too:nod: just buy one of those reproduction shells they came out with

[BonzoHansen]

Then get the other $20,000-$100,000 you need to finish it. :)

[qwikz28]

Then get the other $20,000-$100,000 you need to finish it. :)

:lol: Thanks for the lead on Mecum. Checking it out now.

I told her what you guys said. I also linked her up to that one in Huntington Station that KevinW posted. Let's see if that is what she had in mind. The page said the frame is good but it needs a new trunk and can run with a battery and fresh gas. Meh.

[BonzoHansen]

what she wants for a jump in and go is $$$$$

[sweetbmxrider]

Get a 4th gen ss.

[KevinW]

FYI, the Huntington station car looks to be a real RS, but it is not a real SS. Does not have power brakes and is likely a 4 drum car. This car has good bones NOM 350, TH350 trans, 12 bolt with multi springs (probably not original to car). Black standard with Daytona yellow is a good color combo. Interior looks pretty decent. There will be more rust then they are letting on to. NY cars get a lot of salt and if the trunk pan is rusty, then the rockers and floors will be too. If your friend does get this he need to know do not throw anything away, the repro junk looks good in a catalog, but fits like crap. It looks like a lot of the interior can be saved with a little work.

Oh yea, I bet that car will go up to closer to 10K at the end of the auction. I would be interesting for her to watch. :D

If your friends are into 1st gens then they need to study and ask questions on these sites.

http://www.camaros.org/index.shtml
http://www.camaros.net/forums/

[qwikz28]

what she wants for a jump in and go is $$$$$

And that's what I told her. And since everything in her price-point requires extensive money and work, I told her to hold off unless he will be having the time and money to do it now. She said he doesn't, which is why she wanted something for him that he could at least drive now. She's going to hold off until she can afford a better car. The project is just so unrealistic.

Thanks for the help guys.

[WildBillyT]

me too:nod: just buy one of those reproduction shells they came out with

The amount of finish work a Dynacorn shell requires is up there. A place in WA state built a '69 out of repro parts and it took a lot of time and money. Which underscores Kevin's point- repro parts look good in the catalog but that doesn't mean they are close to right. Dash pads that are too short, seat covers with the wrong pattern, fenders that are the wrong gauge steel, etc.

[KevinW]

Well said Bill! I use repro steel as (just what is rusty) patch panels to fix originals!

[zraffz]

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2828156860.html
Flame me, it sounds like a heck of a deal.

[WildBillyT]

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2828156860.html
Flame me, it sounds like a heck of a deal.

No pics. Can't tell anything from that.

[elle]

nevermind......

[KevinW]

Just for amusement, here is a real, one owner, papered, POP, SS/RS 350 4 speed, original drivetrain and great options that just sold for $10K on ebay :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-RS-SS-1-owner-all-original-?cmd=ViewItem&item=260941610938

[WildBillyT]

Just for amusement, here is a real, one owner, papered, POP, SS/RS 350 4 speed, original drivetrain and great options that just sold for $10K on ebay :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-RS-SS-1-owner-all-original-?cmd=ViewItem&item=260941610938

20-25k and you've got a nice car.

[BonzoHansen]

here you go!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170770677695%3F_trksid%3Dp4340.m748&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D6012528369959820409

[KevinW]

Reserve will be close to $35K :)

http://www.duffys.com/inventory/view/8064282/1969-chevrolet-camaro%20ss/

[V]

and its not even 100% original

[Mike]

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/2826917428.html

I know it's a 68 and a vert. But it shows a little of what you will find in her price range. I know my 68 needs almost every piece of metal. A 69 will cost more just because it's a 69. Add in ss or any of the good stuff and people get crazy

[KevinW]

The 'Bill of sale only" would stop me cold. The title cleaners have been cracked down on, right?

[Mike]

Pa is easier than jersey. But you would still end up with a reconstructed or salvage title.
Btw that link isn't my car it's just one I found

[JL8Jeff]

The 'Bill of sale only" would stop me cold. The title cleaners have been cracked down on, right?

I believe so, they might even be going back after cars previously titled through some of those places and making people re-title with state issued VINs which could really hurt the value of a car.

[WildBillyT]

I believe so, they might even be going back after cars previously titled through some of those places and making people re-title with state issued VINs which could really hurt the value of a car.

I had heard this as well.

[69RSZ]

keep looking, and try here>> http://www.specialinterest.com/
there isnt much now because this isnt the time to sell but in the spring there might be more cars listed that fit your criteria.click on search and click on year then go and then click on veiw all listings and all ads for that year group will show.Good luck.