LS1 Heads/Cam Build

[LS1ow]

so the time has come. bottem end issue has been resolved and now its time to to start doin the Cam/Top end. ive been echanging PMs with a few members, but figured it be easier to have all info in 1 thread. so lets start...

Things i will need off the off the top of my head, please add whatever may be missing.

Heads(Got)
Cam
Timing Set
Pushrods
Lifters
Gaskets
Hardware(ARP stuff, right?)

i know im missing things, so lay it on me.

now come questions...

CAMSHAFT- car is going to be one of my daily Driven cars, so i dont want to have to worry about stalling out and not running, id like to be able to go and start my car everymorning and drive work. any recomendations for my cam? Heads are milled .030 with oversize intake and exhaust valves. dual rate springs good for up to a .625 lift.

TIMING- Comp Cams double roller set good? im on the verge of purchasing one off a member

PUSHRODS- since heads are milled, im gunna have to measure them so i know lengths. Comp Cams make ones to desired length correct ?

LIFTERS- Original Plan was LS7 lifters and Trays. But i have heard a both good and bad things about them, so what expirience do you guys have? am i going to be good with the LS7 units? because it would really help a lot not spending $450+ on Lifters...

GASKETS- Felpro Gasket kit, any objections?

more questions...

INJECTORS? upgrading them would be a wise choice correct? how do i go about choosing the right injector?

Oil Pump? Do i need a upgraded one of these?


thanks pretty much all i can think of right now... any help is greatly appriciated, also any added info is awesome.

[WayFast84]

Injectors are a must. I got the gm h/c gaskets and bolt kit from ws6 store and they had an option of upgrading to arp. Might as well do a water pump as well. Oil pump is a must.

What heads did you you go with?

[LTb1ow]

I run, er ran LS7 lifters with no issue, spinning prob more than you will be and prob be running em in the new bullet as well.

Pending your power levels, you can have my ford 30# injectors, just send em out to be flow matched and cleaned.

Otherwise, yea, measure you PR, Kirk is pretty good at doing the math to get a general idea and then you go from there with the checker. ARP is pretty FTW, so get that.

[LS1ow]

I run, er ran LS7 lifters with no issue, spinning prob more than you will be and prob be running em in the new bullet as well.

Pending your power levels, you can have my ford 30# injectors, just send em out to be flow matched and cleaned.

Otherwise, yea, measure you PR, Kirk is pretty good at doing the math to get a general idea and then you go from there with the checker. ARP is pretty FTW, so get that.

not lookin for any "crazy power", so i may be good with 30s. were would i send em to get em matched and cleaned?

[LTb1ow]

New Era Performance in NY
http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=94&Itemid=54

[KirkEvil]

New Era Performance in NY
http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=94&Itemid=54

^Thats where I sent mine, turn around was about 10 days. You would be fine with svo 30#, which are 36# at ls1 fuel pressure.

I pieced together the gaskets and head bolts separately instead of the gm kit to run cometic 0.040 gaskets. the smaller you want the chambers to be the more they have to mill off the heads per volume. meaning you will gain a little more ptv clearance by running a thinner gasket than simply having the heads milled down to compensate. the cometic gaskets cost more, but worth it imo.

I have a pushrod length checker if you want to borrow it next time you come down.

[NJ Torque]

What heads are they? What do they flow? That will help in trying to match a cam.

[LS1ow]

^Thats where I sent mine, turn around was about 10 days. You would be fine with svo 30#, which are 36# at ls1 fuel pressure.

I pieced together the gaskets and head bolts separately instead of the gm kit to run cometic 0.040 gaskets. the smaller you want the chambers to be the more they have to mill off the heads per volume. meaning you will gain a little more ptv clearance by running a thinner gasket than simply having the heads milled down to compensate. the cometic gaskets cost more, but worth it imo.

I have a pushrod length checker if you want to borrow it next time you come down.

Well the heads are already milled?

Im not gunna skimp out were $ needs to be used, spending the extra on the gaskets is np.

What heads are they? What do they flow? That will help in trying to match a cam.

243s. i left promar engine builders a message friday to see if they have a flow bench to see what they do, so hopefully tommaro they get back to me. ive been meaning to get em tested but ive gotten side tracked

[coolmanvette75]

As far as the cam goes what route are you looking to go? Shelf cam or have something custom ground from any number of companies...

Gaskets, Every gasket I have replaced has been with felpro gaskets and have never had a leak, though Ive never used their head gaskets so I cant help ya there.

ARP everything. Refer to BLS when you think ARP isnt necessary.

The comp cams timing set is a good piece. Saw the one you are looking at buying last week and its a nice piece.

One thing I havent seen you mention is a fuel pump. Definitley would recommend at least a Walbro 255. Aeromotive also makes a nice unit but is more $$.

[MyFirstZ]

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55547

Check my old suggestion thread out. Pretty similar

[KirkEvil]

As far as the cam goes what route are you looking to go? Shelf cam or have something custom ground from any number of companies...

Theres really no reason to get a custom cam unless you want to spend an extra $50 to feel special. You should be able to find every cam imaginable in aftermarket shelf cams for lsx.

Gaskets, Every gasket I have replaced has been with felpro gaskets and have never had a leak, though Ive never used their head gaskets so I cant help ya there.

I would use multi-layer steel gaskets for both the heads and headers. Ive tried both (felpro) and had much better results with MLS, plus they can be re-used. Head gaskets, waterpump gaskets (2), front cover gasket, front crank seal, and oil pump o ring. Thats everything you need if you want to piece it together

ARP everything. Refer to BLS when you think ARP isnt necessary.

No. ARP head bolts is all you need from them. Get a factory crank bolt, some SS bolts from home depot for the headers, and re-use everything else.

The comp cams timing set is a good piece. Saw the one you are looking at buying last week and its a nice piece.

LS2 timing chain is all you need, and it will fit your stock ls1 timing set. At $40 its much cheaper than the comp cams set.

One thing I havent seen you mention is a fuel pump. Definitley would recommend at least a Walbro 255. Aeromotive also makes a nice unit but is more $$.

Pretty sure this was mentioned in his other thread.

[MyFirstZ]

If you need I have the longer arp crank bolt to help for reinstall and yhe crank pulley tool for when it comes time

[Featherburner]

No. ARP head bolts is all you need from them. Get a factory crank bolt, some SS bolts from home depot for the headers, and re-use everything else.Reason?

[KirkEvil]

Reason?

Cheaper and just as effective for h/c power is the main reason. Second reasoning is that it was too short to engage enough threads when torquing my U/D crank pulley, but that might just be an isolated issue to the pulley I have.

[Featherburner]

Cheaper and just as effective for h/c power is the main reason. Second reasoning is that it was too short to engage enough threads when torquing my U/D crank pulley, but that might just be an isolated issue to the pulley I have.

Stock bolt is TTY, no?

Edit: When you say "too short to engage enough threads when torquing" do you mean to pull it on or after the pulley is installed?

[KirkEvil]

Stock bolt is TTY, no?

yes, it is torque to yield and 1 time use.

Edit: When you say "too short to engage enough threads when torquing" do you mean to pull it on or after the pulley is installed?

After the pulley was fully seated, it was still too short. I ended up using a 120mm length bolt.

[LS1ow]

anyone got a link to one of these already put together kits with all the gaskets and hardware ? i was scanning ws6store but couldnt find the one with an option for ARP stuff

[KirkEvil]

http://texas-speed.com/p-173-basic-heads-camshaft-bolt-gasket-kit.aspx

[LS1ow]

http://texas-speed.com/p-173-basic-heads-camshaft-bolt-gasket-kit.aspx

APR long n short bolt kit, but how do i know what gaskets mick beggs needs ?

[KirkEvil]

APR long n short bolt kit, but how do i know what gaskets mick beggs needs ?

whats the chamber volume after milling your heads?

[LS1ow]

well there stock heads milled .030...

[KirkEvil]

Stock what casting? I thought you said the valves were oversized - were the chambers ported at all to unshroud the valves?

[coolmanvette75]

Post #8 says they are 243s...

[LS1ow]

Stock what casting? I thought you said the valves were oversized - were the chambers ported at all to unshroud the valves?

Post #8 says they are 243s...

yea. i have the papers at home with all the headwork, i just dont know off hand. also gettin them flowed friday ! :mrgreen:

[sweetbmxrider]

Then have the chambers cc'ed

[LS1ow]

Then have the chambers cc'ed

everything with the heads will be figured out by monday hopefully, there going to Cerrellis friday

[KirkEvil]

1. choose a cam based on the head flow, and what intake you want to run
2. choose head gaskets based on the cam clearance and chamber volume for target dcr
3. lock it the **** up

[LS1ow]

1. choose a cam based on the head flow, and what intake you want to run
2. choose head gaskets based on the cam clearance and chamber volume for target dcr
3. lock it the **** up

sooo


Cam
Headgaskets
10s?


is that what you did ?

[KirkEvil]

sooo


Cam
Headgaskets
10s?


is that what you did ?

Nah, some HVAC and hood blessed by Ron might get you mid 11s.

What trans and converter do you plan on running?

[LS1ow]

Nah, some HVAC and hood blessed by Ron might get you mid 11s.

What trans and converter do you plan on running?

Performabuilt Level 2 4L60e, 3200 Street Fighter

[sweetbmxrider]

Needs moar verter

[LS1ow]

Nah, some HVAC and hood blessed by Ron might get you mid 11s.

What trans and converter do you plan on running?

and i cant even do the HVAC, the T/A bumper is a wall.

Needs moar ϟ Ƙ Ʀ Ɩ ן ן Σ x

affirmative, couldnt agree more

[sweetbmxrider]

Get a good stall, don't be a first rodeo.

[NJ346]

Needs moar verter

What he said. I hear 3600 is an awesome mix between street/strip performance but you can get buy with a 4000 too. Did you hear my car run at Pete and Elda's? The idle is a little choppy but still very stockish. I'd definitely recommend the TSP Torquer V.2 or possibly the V.3. And if you saw my callout thread, I still get good gas mileage on the hwy, which might be somewhat important to you if you daily it a lot.

[LTb1ow]

3200 street fighter. LULZ bro.

4200 yank, nothing short of 4000.

[LS1ow]

Get a good stall, don't be a first rodeo.

im just little scurred of the drivabilty of the bigger than 3200 stall. i dont want anything loose and sloppy. id hate to have to rev it to hell to get it to move. but wheel see, ill worry about that when the motors done.

What he said. I hear 3600 is an awesome mix between street/strip performance but you can get buy with a 4000 too. Did you hear my car run at Pete and Elda's? The idle is a little choppy but still very stockish. I'd definitely recommend the TSP Torquer V.2 or possibly the V.3. And if you saw my callout thread, I still get good gas mileage on the hwy, which might be somewhat important to you if you daily it a lot.

nahh i didnt get a chance to hear your car, but MPG isnt "that" importantant... the ride to work is 1.5 miles and it stays home others than weekends.

[sweetbmxrider]

I have a 3600 and my car moves like it was stock. The more throttle you give, the more it slips. If you floor it, it revs to hell and makes you go fast. If you gingerly gas it, you smile and such. If you crawl, you idle.

[LS1ow]

I have a 3600 and my car moves like it was stock. The more throttle you give, the more it slips. If you floor it, it revs to hell and makes you go fast. If you gingerly gas it, you smile and such. If you crawl, you idle.

hmm... looks like a bigger verter may be thrown at the list of parts not too. im gunna be broke !

[Jersey Mike]

in4nextbreakdown.

[LTb1ow]

Ask Kirk his feelings on LT1 sized torque converters in cammed LS1s.

Don't be a puss. My 4k drove fine until you nailed it.

[LS1ow]

Ask Kirk his feelings on LT1 sized torque converters in cammed LS1s.

Don't be a puss. My 4k drove fine until you nailed it.

to "flashy" of a throttle is not good for drifting thou.

[LTb1ow]

Do you want me to slap you now, or save it for later?

[LS1ow]

Do you want me to slap you now, or save it for later?

ill take it now.

[KirkEvil]

a 3200 streetfighter? you shoud just stay with the LT1 and bolt ons.

[LS1ow]

a 3200 streetfighter? you shoud just stay with the LT1 and bolt ons.

okok, a converter change is deffinatly in my head now.

but anyway, thats for another thread.

id like to keep this thread legit so my engine gets done the right way

[The_Bishop]

Performabuilt Level 2 4L60e, 3200 Street Fighter

Do Not Run This Converter!

It is the *biggest* POS in the entire universe. Save your pennies and buy a Yank, a Vigilante, or some other name brand converter. I had one of them. It's a 6 cylinder converter with an adapter ring welded onto it, the lockup clutch is too small, and will slip eventually dumping clutch material throughout your trans, necessitating a rebuild.

Also, it sucks. No hit on the bottom and too much slip on top. All in all, you get what you pay for, except buying this converter is like paying someone to punch you in the dick.

[LS1ow]

Do Not Run This Converter!

It is the *biggest* POS in the entire universe. Save your pennies and buy a Yank, a Vigilante, or some other name brand converter. I had one of them. It's a 6 cylinder converter with an adapter ring welded onto it, the lockup clutch is too small, and will slip eventually dumping clutch material throughout your trans, necessitating a rebuild.

Also, it sucks. No hit on the bottom and too much slip on top. All in all, you get what you pay for, except buying this converter is like paying someone to punch you in the dick.

ive been reading up on them after hearing all the negativity lol

but like i said prior, converter, gear, rear end and stuff will be in a seperate build thread farther down the road

[LTb1ow]

ive been reading up on them after hearing all the negativity lol

but like i said prior, converter, gear, rear end and stuff will be in a seperate build thread farther down the road

Unless you like ATF, doing the verter with the engine/trans out of car is the best time to do it. :lol:

[LS1ow]

Unless you like ATF, doing the verter with the engine/trans out of car is the best time to do it. :lol:

i know lol you of any one should know how many times ive had to do a trans :facepalm:

right now all my concentration is on the motor. getting it 100% assembled and ready to go, and once its at the point it will sit on the stand in my shop.... forever prob.

[The_Bishop]

Honestly, you'll get the biggest seat of the pants gain from the converter. I'm running full bolt-ons, a 3.42 rear, and a Yank SS3600. Tuned it myself. Took the car from a 12.90 to a 12.32 on some old-ass drag radials... And I'm convinced there's more in it. I ran out of track time due to the non-existent winter we had.

If you're budget limited, do a cam and a converter. Tuned right on sticky tires will put you in the 11's.

[LTb1ow]

Honestly, you'll get the biggest seat of the pants gain from the converter. I'm running full bolt-ons, a 3.42 rear, and a Yank SS3600. Tuned it myself. Took the car from a 12.90 to a 12.32 on some old-ass drag radials... And I'm convinced there's more in it. I ran out of track time due to the non-existent winter we had.

If you're budget limited, do a cam and a converter. Tuned right on sticky tires will put you in the 11's.

His engine is shot, so he has to build something.

[LS1ow]

Honestly, you'll get the biggest seat of the pants gain from the converter. I'm running full bolt-ons, a 3.42 rear, and a Yank SS3600. Tuned it myself. Took the car from a 12.90 to a 12.32 on some old-ass drag radials... And I'm convinced there's more in it. I ran out of track time due to the non-existent winter we had.

If you're budget limited, do a cam and a converter. Tuned right on sticky tires will put you in the 11's.

His engine is shot, so he has to build something.

Matt is right, bottem end was bad, so the rebuild had to happen. just doing the heads/cam while its out.

[The_Bishop]

That'll do it, every time. Didn't know.

[LS1ow]

Kirk gave me the head up to run .040 head gaskets, the choices are 39.10, 40.35, 40.85 and 41.30 for Cometic, but then theres Compressed Thickness, which my choices are .040 .045 .051 and .060. Therefor, I am lost.

but then again there is the "LQ9 4.00 bore" set... so IDK

[Blackbirdws6]

I would be looking at compressed thickness since that will play a part in your static CR and such. Confirm with Kirk if you are looking to match his setup.

[coolmanvette75]

You ever scan the flow chart?

[sweetbmxrider]

Compressed thickness is what matters.

[KirkEvil]

You want the 3.910 bore gaskets for an ls1, .040" thick compressed. They are pricey compared to stock MLS thickness but worth it if you want the most out of the setup. I think you should decide if you're keeping the heads before pulling the trigger on gaskets doe :dj:

[LS1ow]

You want the 3.910 bore gaskets for an ls1, .040" thick compressed. They are pricey compared to stock MLS thickness but worth it if you want the most out of the setup. I think you should decide if you're keeping the heads before pulling the trigger on gaskets doe :dj:

does :dj: imply skrillex will give me answers ?



and yea i know, ive been wieghing my options

[KirkEvil]

Interesting Head Flow data by Tony Mamo (http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/317323-interesting-flow-data-long-thread.html)

educate yourself.

[LS1ow]

Interesting Head Flow data by Tony Mamo (http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/317323-interesting-flow-data-long-thread.html)

educate yourself.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/100/315/iTAmc.GIF

[LTb1ow]

Acccording to that list, your "ported" heads flow less than a stock set with larger valves.

You sir, got trolled.

[LS1ow]

Acccording to that list, your "ported" heads flow less than a stock set with larger valves.

You sir, got trolled.

there has to be some error on the flow chart then ? the heads are clearly modded.

[LTb1ow]

there has to be some error on the flow chart then ? the heads are clearly modded.

For your sake I hope there was an error, your heads flow on par with mildly ported LT1 heads.

[LS1ow]

stock motor with a snail sounds so appealing right now

[LTb1ow]

stock motor with a snail sounds so appealing right now

Buy that hotside I posted, cheap turbonetics snail, and ebay coldside...

Junkyard 80e and find a decent rear, good for 10s

[Jersey Mike]

And with your track record, about 7 days.

[KirkEvil]

Sell your heads and pick up a set of untouched 243s to install with bolt ons. Get that running and dont worry about a heads cam build right now. It will make decent power and drive ability wont suffer. If and when you pick a direction to go with a build later on, you will have a solid platform to work from.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

U can ad LS2 lifter guide trays to your list. Good luck with the build

[KirkEvil]

U can ad LS2 lifter guide trays to your list. Good luck with the build

What is the difference between the LS1 and LS2 lifter trays besides the casting ribs that were removed for clearance on the LS2 since the block is slightly different?

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

What is the difference between the LS1 and LS2 lifter trays besides the casting ribs that were removed for clearance on the LS2 since the block is slightly different?

little thicker and stronger

[KirkEvil]

Lifter trays act as a guide, not a support. A failed tray would allow the lifter to rotate. Once the lifter starts to rotate, it would crack the tray soon after. The tray would only allow the lifter to rotate if the guide dimensions on the tray were enlarged from wear, or not seated properly during install. How would the thicker/stronger LS2 tray stop wear between the lifter and tray contact surface faster than the LS1 if they are made from the same plastic? My opinion is that the trays would only be worth replacing if the guides on the set he has are worn down.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Lifter trays act as a guide, not a support. A failed tray would allow the lifter to rotate. Once the lifter starts to rotate, it would crack the tray soon after. The tray would only allow the lifter to rotate if the guide dimensions on the tray were enlarged from wear, or not seated properly during install. How would the thicker/stronger LS2 tray stop wear between the lifter and tray contact surface faster than the LS1 if they are made from the same plastic? My opinion is that the trays would only be worth replacing if the guides on the set he has are worn down.

You know it all so why ask, just telling what I read in my research on them.

[sweetbmxrider]

x2 I heard you should swap the trays....

[KirkEvil]

You know it all so why ask, just telling what I read in my research on them.

Asking because I dont know it all. I was trying to present my thought process and experience for a technical discussion. Maybe Im in the wrong forum?

[LS1ow]

short block is for sale. heads are already gone. may as well close this thread.

GO LT1 GO !