Purolator calls out Fram with their cardboard end caps

[WildBillyT]

cEjpdcCn8jQ

BUUUURRRN

[sweetbmxrider]

Niceeeeeeeeeeee love purolator!

[Jersey Mike]

Clever! :lol:

[usp55]

hahah thats great!

[maroman88]

lol awesome

[Featherburner]

But can a Purolator do this?
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/filter-1.jpg

[1994lt1]

^ About the only thing they're good for

[The Fixer]

LOL that's awesome! I bailed on Fram a long time ago. I use Wix on my wife's Liberty, and OEM Nissan for my G35.

[trashman01]

thats nothing new about fram

[WildBillyT]

thats nothing new about fram

Not new but it's the first time (that I know of at least) where another company called them out for building ****.

[Blacdout96]

I try to tell people how inferior they are, but in some cases, people walk right out of my work when I tell them we don't carry them, only Wix filters. Fram has built up quite a customer base since other companies did very little in the brain sapping world of TV commercials.

[chrisfrom nj]

i used fram no more after this

[The_Bishop]

Saw the dumbest thing in the world the other day at advanced auto; guy spent $$$ on synthetic oil for his car, puts a fram oil filter next to it.

[NJ346]

I really hate when autozone or Advanced has their oil deals for frams. I buy the fram just to get a discount and then buy a filter of my choice and throw the fram out when I get home lol

[sweetbmxrider]

Can't you just return the filter?

[greenformula92]

wow thats funny. I've used fram in the past but know I use Mobil 1 filters on my Legacy and Purolator on the RS

[Jersey Mike]

Actually reminds me of the 1800 commercials, that call Patron "poser tequila"

[motorking]

cEjpdcCn8jQ

BUUUURRRN

Unburn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecpkvsnKKNg

Open for questions, ready to shovel the lies and BS away from the Purolater company that is afraid to reveal how poorly their filters work compared to anything Fram makes. Jay.Buckley@Framgrp.com

[Squirrel]

Cliffs for video? thanks... from everything ive seen, i wouldnt put a fram on my lawn mower, much less a vehicle

[motorking]

Cliffs for video? thanks... from everything ive seen, i wouldnt put a fram on my lawn mower, much less a vehicle

Really? Why not watch the videos and learn something? Purolator doesnt want to talk about filter efficiency, so they jump on the slam FRAM bandwagon? Pathetic. Fram is OE on Hondas and Subarus, obviously very reliable cars. AC Delco uses a felt end cap. Bentley and Nissan both use fiber end caps. Toyota uses no end caps at all. End caps dont filter the oil, the media does. Our efficiency is 96% to 99% percent depending on the model using the only OE recognized test ISO 4548-12. Purolator posts results using some BS test that uses bowling ball size particles.

[Squirrel]

Really? Why not watch the videos and learn something?
its much more efficient to read a summary than watch a 10 minute video

[motorking]

its much more efficient to read a summary than watch a 10 minute video

So you really dont want to know?

[sully91rs]

I get it, industry says non-metal end caps are ok. But industry also has ways of doing cheap things because they are cheap, not better. Why doesn't FRAM just use metal end caps and then have superior media and construction?

[motorking]

I get it, industry says non-metal end caps are ok. But industry also has ways of doing cheap things because they are cheap, not better. Why doesn't FRAM just use metal end caps and then have superior media and construction?

Seems plenty of other companies are making filters this way including GM. Why? Because nothing seals the ends of the media cartridge better. Ever try to glue something to a smooth surface? Metal end caps do not make a filter better, expensive media does. The Bentley filter is ona 345,000 dollar car. Why? Because it works.

[Squirrel]

It could have the best specs of any filter out there and i still wouldnt use one because theyre flat out ugly... its like marrying a girl solely for her personality

edit: and a fram filter is on that bentley because im assuming fram won the contract bid....

[WildBillyT]

Jay,

Thank you for posting the video. For those of you that didn't watch it, it's a pretty good breakdown of filter anatomy and is worth a look.


I do have a few questions for you after viewing:

1.) Why is the regular orange filter not rated for synthetic oil? Due to change intervals?

2.) If cardboard end caps are just fine and have better adhesion to the media due to similar materials and apparently no down side, why does Fram use metal end-caps on their top of the line filter (Extended Guard) and not fiberboard?

3.) Big one for me- What part of the filter anatomy would cause a fluttering in hot idle oil pressure? I ask this because when I used to use Fram filters my car would have slight instability in the gauge at idle, and after switching to another brand it completely went away. Same engine, same milage, same oil- even the same day. Just a different filter. For the record, I don't run a purolator anything either.

Thanks for your input.

[Blacdout96]

WBT, I noticed that too with the Xtra Guard filters. As far as adhesion goes with metal, you can do that without performing any major scuffing. with technology and composites that we have created today, mainly from BASF and 3M, we have created adhesives that are leaps and bound of what they were capable 10-15 years ago. Who here thinks gluing a car together would be strong and better then welding? Aston Martin is big behind building their cars and using a bonding agent instead of welding on their cars, and these adhesives are sometimes stronger the then the metal/composite itself!! It all comes down to cost in the end.
Fram's are marketed for the Box store idiots who are looking to just do an oil change, and as I said before, Fram has built up a lot of followers thanks in part to their advertising.
If Fram was so good, why doesn't any top NASCAR team use them? why Wix? Quality, plain and simple.

The end caps may not deal with oil bypassing, but you have to realize they play an integral part to the structure of the filter. What resists twisting, and deflecting less, a piece of cardboard, or a piece of steel? Enough said. There is a reason why top shops, quality restoration, and engine shops prefer Wix/NAPA over Fram. I can go all day, but I'm waiting for Honeywell's spokesman to respond to WBT and me.

[WildBillyT]

WBT, I noticed that too with the Xtra Guard filters. As far as adhesion goes with metal, you can do that without performing any major scuffing. with technology and composites that we have created today, mainly from BASF and 3M, we have created adhesives that are leaps and bound of what they were capable 10-15 years ago. Who here thinks gluing a car together would be strong and better then welding? Aston Martin is big behind building their cars and using a bonding agent instead of welding on their cars, and these adhesives are sometimes stronger the then the metal/composite itself!! It all comes down to cost in the end.
Fram's are marketed for the Box store idiots who are looking to just do an oil change, and as I said before, Fram has built up a lot of followers thanks in part to their advertising.
If Fram was so good, why doesn't any top NASCAR team use them? why Wix? Quality, plain and simple.

The end caps may not deal with oil bypassing, but you have to realize they play an integral part to the structure of the filter. What resists twisting, and deflecting less, a piece of cardboard, or a piece of steel? Enough said. There is a reason why top shops, quality restoration, and engine shops prefer Wix/NAPA over Fram. I can go all day, but I'm waiting for Honeywell's spokesman to respond to WBT and me.

See, I understand that majority of the people out there don't need a filter to handle 80psi of oil pressure and stand up to performance abuse. They probably sell way more filters to the guys just looking to save a few bucks by doing their own oil change. Most vehicles don't even have an oil pressure gauge. If you are just trying to maintain your daily beater, does it really matter? Probably not as much as some would lead you to believe. But for performance applications or something that is less "washing machine" and more "street machine" you want something that you can trust and that's well made. Regarding the end caps, I am not an adhesives engineer but if other (smaller) companies can get metal to stick to the filter material, why can't (giant) Honeywell do so for durability?

I don't buy into the "Well, so and so uses this..." either, as there's money and contracts involved all the time. NASCAR only uses Goodyear tires even though a lot of people want to run Hoosiers. Regarding OEM manufacturers, they are looking to save money too- just because it's OEM doesn't mean it's top quality. Far from it in my experience.

[Tru2Chevy]

2.) If cardboard end caps are just fine and have better adhesion to the media due to similar materials and apparently no down side, why does Fram use metal end-caps on their top of the line filter (Extended Guard) and not fiberboard?

I don't remember if it was mentioned in the video itself, but he did address this in the comments under the video (I was bored and read through some of them). We use engineered fiber end caps on all of our filters except the XG. It has steel end caps to trap the stainless screen.

- Justin

[LTb1ow]

Fram should put their money where their mouth is, sponser the forum, and threads like this will go poof.

[Blacdout96]

Fram should put their money where their mouth is, sponser the forum, and threads like this will go poof.

:rofl: :rofl: Truthfully though, you are right...

[sweetbmxrider]

Seems plenty of other companies are making filters this way including GM. Why? Because nothing seals the ends of the media cartridge better. Ever try to glue something to a smooth surface? Metal end caps do not make a filter better, expensive media does. The Bentley filter is ona 345,000 dollar car. Why? Because it works.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You say that like its the be all, end all. You are talking to car guys here, nothing that comes stock on a car is the best. We go out of our way to achieve better with quality parts.

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43276&highlight=filter

Have fun buddy.

[FlyingDutchman]

I used a premium purolator filter with pennzoil platinum and was not satisfied. I noticed at hot temperatures the oil pressure did a noticeable amount of fluctuation while on cruise doing around 2k rpm. Previously I only ever used blue Carquest filters (premium Wix filters) and never had a problem with them. Currently I'm running Castrol Syntec with a K&N filter and completely happy with it (as I should with a filter for $13.99!) because the oil pressure is nice and constant (even at hot it manages to have good pressure) 8-)

As per the thread, I really do not see a problem with FRAM. I know tons of people running them with high mileage on their vehicles and absolutely no issues. The breakdown video is really informative and I think puts that silly cardboard end-cap nonsense to rest. You should be more worried if they use Elmer's glue to seal the end or the media collapsing rather than whatever they currently use for end-caps. I think if they constantly broke and wrecked engines like people claim, FRAM would not be using them anymore because the sue-happy country would run them out of business!


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You say that like its the be all, end all. You are talking to car guys here, nothing that comes stock on a car is the best. We go out of our way to achieve better with quality parts.

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43276&highlight=filter

Have fun buddy.

That's the problem. Most people on here are "car guys", not engineers. There is nothing wrong with using stock parts, they were made/designed/built to work well. :facepalm:

[WildBillyT]

I used a premium purolator filter with pennzoil platinum and was not satisfied. I noticed at hot temperatures the oil pressure did a noticeable amount of fluctuation while on cruise doing around 2k rpm. Previously I only ever used blue Carquest filters (premium Wix filters) and never had a problem with them. Currently I'm running Castrol Syntec with a K&N filter and completely happy with it (as I should with a filter for $13.99!) because the oil pressure is nice and constant (even at hot it manages to have good pressure) 8-)

As per the thread, I really do not see a problem with FRAM. I know tons of people running them with high mileage on their vehicles and absolutely no issues. The breakdown video is really informative and I think puts that silly cardboard end-cap nonsense to rest. You should be more worried if they use Elmer's glue to seal the end or the media collapsing rather than whatever they currently use for end-caps. I think if they constantly broke and wrecked engines like people claim, FRAM would not be using them anymore because the sue-happy country would run them out of business!




That's the problem. Most people on here are "car guys", not engineers. There is nothing wrong with using stock parts, they were made/designed/built to work well. :facepalm:

It doesn't put it to rest at all. It tells you the one side of why they do it.

[KirkEvil]

That's the problem. Most people on here are "car guys", not engineers. There is nothing wrong with using stock parts, they were made/designed/built to work well. :facepalm:

Being an engineer does not mean you automatically design/build great things. You could give the best engineer in the world a weak design budget and get a poor product. Stock parts are made for stock applications, under a budget...hopefully designed as best possible for that budget. If everything stock was made/designed/built to work well I guess there wouldnt be any performance gains with aftermarket parts?

[FlyingDutchman]

Being an engineer does not mean you automatically design/build great things. You could give the best engineer in the world a weak design budget and get a poor product. Stock parts are made for stock applications, under a budget...hopefully designed as best possible for that budget. If everything stock was made/designed/built to work well I guess there wouldnt be any performance gains with aftermarket parts?

You are right, engineers don't automatically create great things on a low budget (not that it is impossible). However, that wasn't my intended point. My comment was implying that a simple "car guy" would not understand the actual mechanics. They would just assume that since steel is stronger than cardboard it must mean one filter is better than the other. Intuitively it makes sense, but doesn't make it right.

Aftermarket parts are necessary for performance applications. In noway am I saying use them in your 10 second race car. However, just because your car is high performance and requires a high performance filter does not discredit FRAM. Most daily drivers are 100% fine with a FRAM economy filter. They make a quality product form what I am seen and they are not hiding anything. The video clearly addressed the fact that endcaps don't add any structural strength, they just hold the media together (which is already wrapped around a steel cylinder...). And if the only reason you argue that they are garbage is because of the cardboard, then why not trash the felt endcap too?

[WildBillyT]

Being an engineer does not mean you automatically design/build great things. You could give the best engineer in the world a weak design budget and get a poor product. Stock parts are made for stock applications, under a budget...hopefully designed as best possible for that budget. If everything stock was made/designed/built to work well I guess there wouldnt be any performance gains with aftermarket parts?

GM engineers designed our window motors.

[LTb1ow]

Being an engineer does not mean you automatically design/build great things. You could give the best engineer in the world a weak design budget and get a poor product. Stock parts are made for stock applications, under a budget...hopefully designed as best possible for that budget. If everything stock was made/designed/built to work well I guess there wouldnt be any performance gains with aftermarket parts?

While I agree with your points you have made good sir, I will say that stock parts are designed for longevity and passing certain tests, IE safety and emmisions being the big hitters. I can guarentee OE stuff goes through a much more rigorous vibration and expected life span design process and test procedure than say coated pacesetter headers etc.

Now, aftermarket parts sacrifice this in many cases, with removing the cars origanal ability to A) run for an almost indefinite period of time without the need for adjustment, or replacement B) Pass all inspection tests assuming the state actually performed safety and or emissions testing

Most middle of teh line aftermarket parts will not last nearly as long as OE stuff before they start to wear out, or even worse fail. Newer engines, GM V8 wise are coming with more efficient exhaust manifolds and other parts, so the aftermarket for that niche may need to work harder to justify the need to replace stock parts anymore.

[sweetbmxrider]

I like how some random guy defending fram posts a video made by fram to address purolator's stab at fram's inferior craftsmanship and it is somehow holding water.

Just lulz.

[BullittSVT]

Had some crappy fram filter on when I bought my car from the previous owner... did my own oil change with a purolator premium.. oil pressure shot up, Hell just the.amount of filter media puts fram to shame let alone everything else in the product

[BonzoHansen]

I like how some random guy defending fram posts a video made by fram to address purolator's stab at fram's inferior craftsmanship and it is somehow holding water.

Just lulz.

does not appear to be a random guy
Jay.Buckley@Framgrp.com

[KirkEvil]

While I agree with your points you have made good sir, I will say that stock parts are designed for longevity and passing certain tests, IE safety and emmisions being the big hitters. I can guarentee OE stuff goes through a much more rigorous vibration and expected life span design process and test procedure than say coated pacesetter headers etc.

Now, aftermarket parts sacrifice this in many cases, with removing the cars origanal ability to A) run for an almost indefinite period of time without the need for adjustment, or replacement B) Pass all inspection tests assuming the state actually performed safety and or emissions testing

Most middle of teh line aftermarket parts will not last nearly as long as OE stuff before they start to wear out, or even worse fail. Newer engines, GM V8 wise are coming with more efficient exhaust manifolds and other parts, so the aftermarket for that niche may need to work harder to justify the need to replace stock parts anymore.

framboi

[LTb1ow]

framboi

Just merely trying to spark a knowledgable conversation old chap.

If only we could get a "car guy" who was also an engineer to add in here.

[sweetbmxrider]

does not appear to be a random guy

Someone on the internet posted an email address, cmon meow! Even if he does work for fram, the point still stands. Its a fram video endorsing their product. Like we've never seen that before with regards to anything at all, ever.

[KirkEvil]

Just merely trying to spark a knowledgable conversation old chap.

If only we could get a "car guy" who was also an engineer to add in here.

If you would have graduated with even a BS in the past 6 years of school, you could have filled the spot.

[sweetbmxrider]

While I agree with your points you have made good sir, I will say that stock parts are designed for longevity and passing certain tests, IE safety and emmisions being the big hitters. I can guarentee OE stuff goes through a much more rigorous vibration and expected life span design process and test procedure than say coated pacesetter headers etc.

Now, aftermarket parts sacrifice this in many cases, with removing the cars origanal ability to A) run for an almost indefinite period of time without the need for adjustment, or replacement B) Pass all inspection tests assuming the state actually performed safety and or emissions testing

Most middle of teh line aftermarket parts will not last nearly as long as OE stuff before they start to wear out, or even worse fail. Newer engines, GM V8 wise are coming with more efficient exhaust manifolds and other parts, so the aftermarket for that niche may need to work harder to justify the need to replace stock parts anymore.

Some good points here but with all of the competition in the line of product at topic, you can easily distinguish between the cheap, the affordable, and the top of the line. All will have pros and cons associated with them as we all know. Fram uses inferior materials to put out a filter at an affordable price in hopes that they reach a larger consumer base that is simply price hunting. Excessive advertisement also helps sell their brand, but doesn't help produce a better product. Same goes for say car insurance. Geico, progressive, etc advertise like crazy and give you lower rates but nickle and dime body shops to use the bottom of the line components when repairing. NJ Manufacturers and others pay for the oem components but you never see them advertising????

That's my take.

[BonzoHansen]

Someone on the internet posted an email address, cmon meow! Even if he does work for fram, the point still stands. Its a fram video endorsing their product. Like we've never seen that before with regards to anything at all, ever.

:wink:

[sweetbmxrider]

Dis guy....

[NastyEllEssWon]

i used a fram high mileaged filter one time, and the goo thats at the bottom and supposed to melt slowly over time melted and all at once a glob of crap got stuck and blew up my motor. i'll never use a fram product again after that.

[sweetbmxrider]

You sir, are my idol.

[Tsar]

GM engineers designed our window motors.Game. Set. Match.

[LTb1ow]

GM engineers designed our window motors.

Game. Set. Match.

I would be willing to bet that GM merely subcontracted that part, no way GM designed a window motor.

The better choice would be the optispark.

[WildBillyT]

I would be willing to bet that GM merely subcontracted that part, no way GM designed a window motor.

The better choice would be the optispark.

Thought of that after I posted it. We could come up with a list of examples a mile long of instances where GM had a bad design, or where GM cut corners to save costs to no benefit to the consumer.

[deadtrend1]

....
The better choice would be the optispark.

I call that more of "Great idea, poor execution"

TBI seems to be another example ... :nod:

[sweetbmxrider]

Do you guys realize how many window regulators explode now-a-days with their metal cables routed through plastic pieces? And how our motors are like $35 while motor/regulators are $100+?

Ignorance is lulz.

[LTb1ow]

Where did our Fram rep go? :(

[BurninrubberGT]

I have never had a problem with a fram filter, guess I'm in the minority lol

[Tsar]

Do you guys realize how many window regulators explode now-a-days with their metal cables routed through plastic pieces? And how our motors are like $35 while motor/regulators are $100+?

Ignorance is lulz.

In the last ten years that I have owned and used other people's cars only 1 of them game me problems when it came to window motors. I'll let you guess which one that was.

[usp55]

I just wanted to share my most recent experience with purolator .

First off, I love the comercials and I switch from a fram to a purolator on my tahoe. I'll never use a purolator again. I would get 40psi at idle and 50-55psi at highwats speeds since I bought it.
With the purolator I could only muster up 30-35 at idle and 45 on the highway. I also noticed a very distinct vibration in my gas pedal. I though I was going nutz and the vibration was in my head so I sent my brother to the store and he said the same thing. After a week and a half i decided to pull it and change back to a fram and psi went back to normal. My brother and I couldnt feel the vibration anymore.

Now I didnt use a pureOne - didnt know there was an option, but still the baseline fram worked better for me.

[sweetbmxrider]

In the last ten years that I have owned and used other people's cars only 1 of them game me problems when it came to window motors. I'll let you guess which one that was.

Ah ok, I deal with this **** daily but your opinion is definitely not null and void.

[motorking]

Unburn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecpkvsnKKNg

Open for questions, ready to shovel the lies and BS away from the Purolater company that is afraid to reveal how poorly their filters work compared to anything Fram makes. Jay.Buckley@Framgrp.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFVNESOwLyk

[sweetbmxrider]

:rofl: Another Fram sponsored video endorsing a Fram product :kneeslap:

[motorking]

:rofl: Another Fram sponsored video endorsing a Fram product :kneeslap:

Honestly? I know the beginning is pretty commercial but the actual video simply explains why we use it, how we test it and who else uses it. We have made 2 billion filters this way since 1961. If it didn't work, we wouldn't be in business.
It is pretty sad commentary when the only thing our competitors can do for advertising is to "slam fram". Would you buy an F body because GM used ads that said "the mustang really sucks"? Really should taking the high road and explaining why their product is better. Purolator advertises efficiency ratings based on 25 micron size even though all major automakers recognize it is particle sizes in the 10-20 micron range that are most harmful to engine wear. FRAM tests to the 10-20 micron size and advertises efficiency based on that particle size. Any filter is good at removing bowling balls from your oil.
:mrgreen:

[sweetbmxrider]

Seems legit bro, care to explain again?

[LTb1ow]

Wait, why is there bowling balls in oil? Is that a new thing?

[sweetbmxrider]

One should not question the motor king.

[OG]

Okay just so we're all in agreement... Stick to wix?

[sweetbmxrider]

No, rubber band a pizza box to your filter adapter. Le derp.

[Blacdout96]

Honestly? I know the beginning is pretty commercial but the actual video simply explains why we use it, how we test it and who else uses it.

Your video is made the same way all Honeywell product video's are: A huge shelf of your product behind you, and elevator music rocking the joint. The only difference is that unlike the other products, who explain how the product works in relations to the engine, and that's it, you guys defend of why you produce your filter the way you do.

We have made 2 billion filters this way since 1961. If it didn't work, we wouldn't be in business.

It's not your product that keeps you in business, its the advertising blitz you do that grabs the attention of the easily dim witted person. How do you thing QVC is still in business after all these years, selling things like steaks, and never dull knives? All it takes is the right marketing personel.


It is pretty sad commentary when the only thing our competitors can do for advertising is to "slam fram". Would you buy an F body because GM used ads that said "the mustang really sucks"?

Just like your competitors, GM has not needed to do that for the past 45+ years. The magazines, test shows, and at the track has done that for them.


Really should taking the high road and explaining why their product is better. Purolator advertises efficiency ratings based on 25 micron size even though all major automakers recognize it is particle sizes in the 10-20 micron range that are most harmful to engine wear. FRAM tests to the 10-20 micron size and advertises efficiency based on that particle size. Any filter is good at removing bowling balls from your oil.
:mrgreen:

This is the first time I have heard FRAM go on the offense in why their product is better, you guys are usually on the defense. And if the market is "slamming" you for using fiber ends, why don't you change to meet the markets and competitors complaint of you using them? We understand your manufacturing plants aren't local to the U.S. anymore, so some money should of been saved there. Start putting metal end caps on the end, and this whole ad compaign would be over.
How do you think Champion went from King of the hill, being used in Ferrari's and everything else that was performance, to barely wanting to be used in lawnmowers today? All it took was the Malaise era, a bad decade of plug service since the emissions and performance aspects of engines were changing everyday, and a good campaign by fellow spark plug company's to knock them off. Autolite should know something about that, they're part of your friendly Honeywell family.

[Blacdout96]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R09Vc6tkDh0

Now that's how you make a video.

[motorking]

I have never had a problem with a fram filter, guess I'm in the minority lol

that would put you in the vast majority. We make 200 million filters a year

[motorking]

Seems legit bro, care to explain again?

The end cap in a filter is only there to seal the ends of the filter media. A fiber end cap seals better than metal. Ever glue something to a smooth surface? The fiber end cap has a porous surface and provides a much better bond.

[motorking]

Your video is made the same way all Honeywell product video's are: A huge shelf of your product behind you, and elevator music rocking the joint. The only difference is that unlike the other products, who explain how the product works in relations to the engine, and that's it, you guys defend of why you produce your filter the way you do.
What part does Purolator explain why the product is better?

GM, Bentley, Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW all use fiber end caps or no end caps at all. Market demand? We have 50% market share.



It's not your product that keeps you in business, its the advertising blitz you do that grabs the attention of the easily dim witted person. How do you thing QVC is still in business after all these years, selling things like steaks, and never dull knives? All it takes is the right marketing personel.




Just like your competitors, GM has not needed to do that for the past 45+ years. The magazines, test shows, and at the track has done that for them.




This is the first time I have heard FRAM go on the offense in why their product is better, you guys are usually on the defense. And if the market is "slamming" you for using fiber ends, why don't you change to meet the markets and competitors complaint of you using them? We understand your manufacturing plants aren't local to the U.S. anymore,

ALL FRAM plants are in the USA dude.


so some money should of been saved there. Start putting metal end caps on the end, and this whole ad compaign would be over.
How do you think Champion went from King of the hill, being used in Ferrari's and everything else that was performance, to barely wanting to be used in lawnmowers today? All it took was the Malaise era, a bad decade of plug service since the emissions and performance aspects of engines were changing everyday, and a good campaign by fellow spark plug company's to knock them off. Autolite should know something about that, they're part of your friendly Honeywell family.

And happily making AC Delco plugs.

[motorking]

Thought of that after I posted it. We could come up with a list of examples a mile long of instances where GM had a bad design, or where GM cut corners to save costs to no benefit to the consumer.

Yes, I have a CTS-V with paint peeling off the radio knobs and pile of crap for a differential

[FlyingDutchman]

Why not use sintered metal for end caps?

[motorking]

Wait, why is there bowling balls in oil? Is that a new thing?

FRAM removes particles in the 10-20 micron size. WIX and Purolator test at 25 microns to get better marketing statistics
FROM GM

"Abrasive engine wear can be substantially reduced with an increase in filter SPE(MP). Compared to a 40 micron filter, engine wear was reduced by 50% with 30 micron filtration." (98% point) "Likewise, wear was reduced by 70% with 15 micron filtration." (SAE TPS 881825 p5 - David R. Staley, General Motors Corp. 1988)

[motorking]

Why not use sintered metal for end caps?

because there is no need to. Honestly.

[sweetbmxrider]

The end cap in a filter is only there to seal the ends of the filter media. A fiber end cap seals better than metal. Ever glue something to a smooth surface? The fiber end cap has a porous surface and provides a much better bond.

:facepalm: