Bad GM designs and ideas

[Blacdout96]

- Diesel 350
- 8-4-2 Engine
- Crossfire Engine
- Cadillac Cimarron
- Any interior ever put in a GM vehicle
- 7.5 rear in any 3rd or 4th gen
- T5 in any 3rd/4th gen

shall I continue?

[WildBillyT]

FYI, I spun your post off.

These should not necessarily be things that ended up being bad in the long run (i.e. stuff that couldn't hold up past stock) but rather things that sucked from day one.


I'd say the Vega's aluminum block was a rough one. And the '67 f-body rear setup for the big block cars.

I'd say no to the T-5 just because it was OK in a stock 3rd gen app.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

I still say that the seats in the Camaro are super comfortable, fit me great, and are pretty supportive for stock seats. Among the best in any vehicle I've been in. I know it's not the whole interior, just stating that not all of the interiors suck.

[WildBillyT]

I still say that the seats in the Camaro are super comfortable, fit me great, and are pretty supportive for stock seats. Among the best in any vehicle I've been in. I know it's not the whole interior, just stating that not all of the interiors suck.

I kind of like some of the old 60's interiors. Really had style. I think the 80s were rock bottom. My Novas was **** from the factory though.

[Blacdout96]

Good stuff there WBT, although I dock you a gold star for speaking of heresy about my silicone imprgenated block homies :lol:

I will agree ARG, they are actually quite comfortable and not too much of a hassle to get out of since the side supports aren't as bulging as in, oh, say a SRT4, that's a PITA for even me to get out of on a daily basis. My problem is the plastic fantastic squeeking everywhere.

- 3rd gen Brake prop valves. Were found to make the rear brakes apply almost zero pressre on the rear rotors, wasen't revised till about 89 or 91...
-

[V]

corvair? lol
location/depth of cup holder in early 4th gens
no cup holders in early/mid 3rd gens
northstar motors ripping head bolts out
dexcool
aveo
the ability to turn traction control AND stabilitrac off on a Cruze:twisted:

[redsoxsstink]

4+3 corvette transmissions?
flip up headlight fails

[WildBillyT]

Good stuff there WBT, although I dock you a gold star for speaking of heresy about my silicone imprgenated block homies :lol:

I will agree ARG, they are actually quite comfortable and not too much of a hassle to get out of since the side supports aren't as bulging as in, oh, say a SRT4, that's a PITA for even me to get out of on a daily basis. My problem is the plastic fantastic squeeking everywhere.

- 3rd gen Brake prop valves. Were found to make the rear brakes apply almost zero pressre on the rear rotors, wasen't revised till about 89 or 91...
-


In the winter and spring of 1971-72, under the pressure of increased workloads, workers (often the usually compliant 'hiilbillies') began to pass cars down the line with the odd bolt or minor part missing. The movement rapidly gained momentum. In one case a car came down the line with the body shelf neatly covering a pile of unassembled parts. Alvin B. Anderson, Manager of Lordstown, stated 'we've had cases of engine blocks passing 40 men without them doing their work.' (Cleveland Plain Dealer, January 23, 1972)


Yikes

[Blacdout96]

-Starter underneath the intake on Northstar
- Killing of the Fiero
- Continuing of Front engine placement for the Corvette

[WildBillyT]

-Starter underneath the intake on Northstar
- Killing of the Fiero
- Continuing of Front engine placement for the Corvette

Did the Fiero sell well enough to warrant more production?

[Blacdout96]

Vega's were built under the wrong place during the right time. If they'd of been a sucess, Honda/Toyota/ insert asian car, wouldn't of thrived as well in America. It was a rush job that could of taken 1 more year to be ready, and still make quite an impact.

personally I defend just my cosworth Vega's, and one day, one will be mine....at least an engine from one will be mine :D

[1320B4U]

-Ev1..not a bad idea, but lets only lease these f'kers and destroy them when the lease expired even though there was public outcry for those that wanted to keep and buy the outright.
-So far the volt has been a disaster...bad advertising..no one knew it wasn't a traditional hybrid like the prius
What they turned Saturn into. It was a car that competed w/the Korean makes and baseline honda/toyotas'..cheap, good on gas and affordable. Then came the millenium and they were rebadging g6's as saturns and the big suv as a saturn (outlook)..they strayed from their mission statement and for the most part the majority if the public didn't associate them w/gm..they were profitable and viable and still would have turned a profit if they kept to the original gameplan.
-Hello, Hummer. Gm waited too long to cashout when the gas crisis hit.
-G8 idea...HOLD UP FOLKS...NOT WHAT YOU THINK....gm and pontiac waited too long to release a car that could compete w/the likes of bmw and lexus (m5 and isf)...by the time they did it was too little too late
-New GTO..sorry folks, lackluster styling, like the '95+ monte carlos. They should've went retro w/a '66 look alike..bring back the 389 via a punched out ls-uno....this along w/the g8 could've saved pontiac from the chopping block..hell, rebadge a 5th gen and change the styling a little and keep the firebird...bam...instant success.
-Cancelling the olds line was overdue. Unfortunately, there was no marketablility to the younger generation esp if they were going to keep Buick (as the new gs is hot). Their demographic were catered to octogenarian's who don't drive more than 20 miles a week and their car will last 30 years.
-Denali pickups and rear wheel steering. Remember these from 5 years ago? Each time i see one i cringe at how much it would cost to replace worn components...not needed when you have something big enough to drive over someone w/if your turning radius is in jeopardy..lol.
-Gm's idea to buy saab. Failing manufacturer w/a loyal fan base similar to waterfest attendee's...not solid enough to stand on their own. Unfortunately this Swedish egg was scrambled upon delivery unlike its lucrative counterpart base company Ikea.
-GM waiting too long to jump on the retro styling bandwagon. 5th gen was looong overdue as well as their answer to the pt cruiser=hhr. Market was saturated for the hhr as over a million + pt's were already sold and luckily the camaro was bad a$$ enough to hold its own agains the mustang, which came out a full 5 years earlier. Something tells me they have the answer to the beetle hidden in the gm vault upon release in 20 years.
-Opti-spark
-cross-fire injection in '82-84 vettes and early 3rd gen's

[Blacdout96]

Did the Fiero sell well enough to warrant more production?

Just like the Vega, and Pinto, the Fiero got a bad rap from Quality, fires, and what not. Once again, it was a Malaise era car, if it wasen't so rushed, and pushed to have new untested technology in it, it would of sold for as long as the MR2 did.

It was a great concept, and they sold them like hotcakes the first two years, but then the problems arose, and that was the end of that. but drive a 1988 Fiero GT, and tell me that car was a waste to keep.

[WildBillyT]

Just like the Vega, and Pinto, the Fiero got a bad rap from Quality, fires, and what not. Once again, it was a Malaise era car, if it wasen't so rushed, and pushed to have new untested technology in it, it would of sold for as long as the MR2 did.

It was a great concept, and they sold them like hotcakes the first two years, but then the problems arose, and that was the end of that. but drive a 1988 Fiero GT, and tell me that car was a waste to keep.

Yeah, but I'm trying to be as objective as I can in this thread. It's easy to spout personal preference stuff about what they should have done in your opinion, or speculate sales numbers, or what cars were a cool idea, or what cars are fun to drive.

For example, the SSR was not a great seller and did nothing like it should well, but at least it got people looking into GM products because it was a cool idea.

I'm talking fall-flat-on-your-face stuff. Like didn't/barely worked properly, a royal pain to maintain, missed the target market by a mile, etc.

[Blacdout96]

How about Fiero's catching on fire? Aw yeah, back in the game ;)

- 2000 to 2006 GM 4WD Trucks front hub assemblies
- 3rd Gen trunk closing motors and their plastic housing
- 4.4 V8

[1320B4U]

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.

[WildBillyT]

GTP fuel pressure resistor is a rough one.

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.

Big time.

[88WS-6]

Pontiac aztek.....designers should have been waterboarded for that abortion.



Side note:

Anyone catch (American) Top Gear finale last night?

[LS1ow]

http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2098530/i/93Optispark2_ezr2.JPG

/thread

[WildBillyT]

http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2098530/i/93Optispark2_ezr2.JPG

/thread

Ehhh

Kinda.

Yeah, the opti sucks, but a lot of that has to do with placement on the engine vs overall ****tiness.

[deadtrend1]

Side note:

Anyone catch (American) Top Gear finale last night?

yes, I seen it

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Berretta..... = doors falling off going down the road

Passenger rear mounted above cradle Alternator on the 3.4l motors

2.2L head gasket blowin P.O.S.

2.8 3.1 etc... valve cover gasket design

4.3L "Spider" fuel injection setup

Geo......anything...lol

Lumina APV & Pontiac Transports....all junk & ugly p.o.s.'s

Northstar motors in general...starter, head gasket issues, upper deck of oil pan leaks which you have to pull the cradle, to pull the trans, to pull the exhaust, to pull the pan, than to finally get to the upper.

"full size" trucks,surburbans & tahoes with poor design pitman/idler arms that constantly go bad

the list doesnt end!!! lol

[Iroc-z86]

I shall partake,

1. Killing the s-series line.
2. only making two years of the 3.1 turbo and putting it in a heavy car (grand prix)
3. stopping the syclone/tycoon
4. crappy fuel level sending units that never work. (im surprised my new camaro still works)

im sure there is more that i cant think of right now... and for some reason i keep buying cars from these people lol

[WildBillyT]

I shall partake,

1. Killing the s-series line.
2. only making two years of the 3.1 turbo and putting it in a heavy car (grand prix)
3. stopping the syclone/tycoon
4. crappy fuel level sending units that never work. (im surprised my new camaro still works)
im sure there is more that i cant think of right now... and for some reason i keep buying cars from these people lol

Good one for the list right there. I went 125 miles without the needle moving in the T/A this week.

[BonzoHansen]

Funny, one user laments no mid engine car, the other laments the mid engine car. BTW the last iteration of the corvair was a fairly capable car.

- Diesel 350
- 8-4-2 Engine
- Crossfire Engine
- Cadillac Cimarron
- Any interior ever put in a GM vehicle
- 7.5 rear in any 3rd or 4th gen
- T5 in any 3rd/4th gen

shall I continue?

My Crossfire car would outrun any FBody you ever owned lol

Also disagree with the interior comment. Generally can't argue with the rest, give or take the t5 comment, at least in 3gs. Only V6 cars got T5s in 4g, right? Sleds. :kneeslap:

those wimpy 10 bolts are a disaster. Vega holdover!

[WildBillyT]

Forgot this one. No puke tank on the 1-3g Novas.

[BigAls87Z28]

FYI, same guy that designed Camaro and C6 Corvette designed Aztek. His name is Tom Peters and drives a 69 Camaro to work.

[edpontiac91]

Cadillac 4100 aluminum motor from 1983-85

Rack and Pinon steering from the late '70's (Citation/ Skylark etc.)

Buick Riviera 1986 TV Touch Screen instruments

Styling of the Full Size models when downsized in 1986 (boxes looked better)

Corvette power from 1981-82 (standard 150 hp/ L82 180 hp)

GM paint from around mid 80's (more Orange Peel than an Orange)

T-Tops that leaked more water than if you left them open

GM produced more crap during this period than anybody could shake a stick at!

[Blacdout96]

My Crossfire car would outrun any FBody you ever owned lol



Oh really now? Opinions are like ********, everybody's got one. :D

And although you may have gotten it to work, for thousands of others, it was a headache.

[Blacdout96]

Also disagree with the interior comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPhJrhVuMkg

although there are Ford/Chrysler as well, you get the point.

[BigAls87Z28]

Just like the Vega, and Pinto, the Fiero got a bad rap from Quality, fires, and what not. Once again, it was a Malaise era car, if it wasen't so rushed, and pushed to have new untested technology in it, it would of sold for as long as the MR2 did.

It was a great concept, and they sold them like hotcakes the first two years, but then the problems arose, and that was the end of that. but drive a 1988 Fiero GT, and tell me that car was a waste to keep.

Fiero was sold to the BoD as a commuter car because they already knocked down any other sports car that could challenge Corvette. So it received commuter car parts.


Berretta..... = doors falling off going down the road

Passenger rear mounted above cradle Alternator on the 3.4l motors

2.2L head gasket blowin P.O.S.

2.8 3.1 etc... valve cover gasket design

4.3L "Spider" fuel injection setup

Geo......anything...lol

Lumina APV & Pontiac Transports....all junk & ugly p.o.s.'s

Northstar motors in general...starter, head gasket issues, upper deck of oil pan leaks which you have to pull the cradle, to pull the trans, to pull the exhaust, to pull the pan, than to finally get to the upper.

"full size" trucks,surburbans & tahoes with poor design pitman/idler arms that constantly go bad

the list doesnt end!!! lol

All of this.

I shall partake,

1. Killing the s-series line.
2. only making two years of the 3.1 turbo and putting it in a heavy car (grand prix)
3. stopping the syclone/tycoon
4. crappy fuel level sending units that never work. (im surprised my new camaro still works)

im sure there is more that i cant think of right now... and for some reason i keep buying cars from these people lol

Can't just keep making a certain vehicle forever.

3.1T was bound to succumb to the same failures as the rest of the 60* family.

FLS's do blow on most mid 90's-00's GM cars

Cadillac 4100 aluminum motor from 1983-85

Rack and Pinon steering from the late '70's (Citation/ Skylark etc.)

Buick Riviera 1986 TV Touch Screen instruments

Styling of the Full Size models when downsized in 1986 (boxes looked better)

Corvette power from 1981-82 (standard 150 hp/ L82 180 hp)

GM paint from around mid 80's (more Orange Peel than an Orange)

T-Tops that leaked more water than if you left them open

GM produced more crap during this period than anybody could shake a stick at!


Riv's touch screen was pretty cool.
The B bodies received the downsize in '77 and the whole line up picked up awards. When they went back to the massive B body, it again won awards.

[WildBillyT]

FYI, same guy that designed Camaro and C6 Corvette designed Aztek. His name is Tom Peters and drives a 69 Camaro to work.

What bet did he lose?

[madness410]

hate the design of the new firebird they are coming out with

[BigAls87Z28]

What bet did he lose?

He actually designed the concept and then GM wrapped that around a modified minivan platform.

[1320B4U]

What bet did he lose?


It was obv this designer was under immense stress and finally broke when lead hit paper and aztek/rendevous was born...he now works for jetblue

[maroman88]

Good one for the list right there. I went 125 miles without the needle moving in the T/A this week.

lol my C5's (and eveyone elses) gas gauge will drop to completely empty after driven for over an hour and NEVER show completely full if you dont use a $12 bottle of techron and premium gas from only the finest gas stations every fill up

[88WS-6]

GM paint from around mid 80's (more Orange Peel than an Orange)



Word :nod:



(although Norwood wasn't too bad)

[jam01]

the armrests in later year 3rd gens were junk, they would peel apart. i don't care much for most of the oe wheel design's, while there is a lot more to knit pick on gm cars i have been in or driven lots of cars and most are worse. i don't buy a car based on cup-holder's and niceties, i go for looks and how easy it is to modify and go fast.

[coolmanvette75]

Lack of a trap door above the fuel pump in the 4th gens. LT1 4th gens gas gauge (1/4 tank=empty)

[WildBillyT]

Lack of a trap door above the fuel pump in the 4th gens. LT1 4th gens gas gauge (1/4 tank=empty)

The lack of a trap door was for a reason. The car is a hatchback with no rear firewall.

[LS1ow]

am i the only one that dislikes 4L60e transmissions ? or do they just dislike me ?

[WildBillyT]

am i the only one that dislikes 4L60e transmissions ? or do they just dislike me ?

Just you.

Even though they have weaknesses they are not a true 100% miss. Not even close, actually.

[maroman88]

The lack of a trap door was for a reason. The car is a hatchback with no rear firewall.

2000 nissan maxima has a factroy trap door under the back seat bottom... so awesome

[WildBillyT]

2000 nissan maxima has a factroy trap door under the back seat bottom... so awesome

Some GTPs do as well. I lucked out when I had to do one. But in a hatchback car with no firewall I guess it's considered a safety issue.

[BonzoHansen]

2000 nissan maxima has a factroy trap door under the back seat bottom... so awesome

Many cars do

[coolmanvette75]

Dont know if anyone mentioned it but, 4th gen window motors suck eggs.

Also the early 90's quad 4 motors that went through headgaskets once a year...

[fire-chickens]

here's a minor annoyance/design flaw a having low rear window in a 57 chevy means any car with their low beams on that's behind you will light up the entire inside of your car and blind you.

[fire-chickens]

another mistake, getting rid of FLOOR MOUNTED HIGH BEAM SWITCHES! new cars you have to push the damn control forward for highbeams now, stupid stupid! sometimes simplicity is better.

[BigAls87Z28]

another mistake, getting rid of FLOOR MOUNTED HIGH BEAM SWITCHES! new cars you have to push the damn control forward for highbeams now, stupid stupid! sometimes simplicity is better.

Wouldn't call it stupid, but it was cool to have it on the floor. I assume that owners broke a lot of them, and when headlight controls were moved from a pull knob to the control stalks, it was just easier to wire it all together.

[BonzoHansen]

another mistake, getting rid of FLOOR MOUNTED HIGH BEAM SWITCHES! new cars you have to push the damn control forward for highbeams now, stupid stupid! sometimes simplicity is better.

As the owner of a car with said floor switch I disagree

[Featherburner]

As the owner of a car with said floor switch I disagreeReason?

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Olds Acheiva...junk
late 00-present full size front wheel hubs...junk
3rd gen radios/stereo systems...sucked
S10/Blazer catylitic converters...constantly clogging & a Mdrfkr to wel one in on 4wd models
98-02 v6 fbodys ... lower bellhousing bracket/bolt assys that suck to get out cause ypipe bolts to manifold usually break when removing to get brackets off.
Gm alternators ...in general go bad about 60-70k miles
s10/blazer heater cores... not fun to do.

[r0nin89]

Ooo Ill play.


Scrapping solid front axles in 4wd pick up trucks rather than moving to a more modern suspension. They should have followed suit with dodge and done IFS in 1/2 tons and straight front axles with a coil suspension in 3/4 and 1 tons.

Everything they did with truck styling after the revised OBS era trucks. 02 chevy and 06 GMC were the last truly good looking GM trucks.

Never having a good light duty 5 speed transmission in a truck.

Scrapping offering of manual trans in trucks all together.

Holding onto the stupid aveo 5 years after the market shifted towards making small MPG friendly hatchbacks sporty.

[7pointoh]

-Ev1..not a bad idea, but lets only lease these f'kers and destroy them when the lease expired even though there was public outcry for those that wanted to keep and buy the outright.
-So far the volt has been a disaster...bad advertising..no one knew it wasn't a traditional hybrid like the prius
What they turned Saturn into. It was a car that competed w/the Korean makes and baseline honda/toyotas'..cheap, good on gas and affordable. Then came the millenium and they were rebadging g6's as saturns and the big suv as a saturn (outlook)..they strayed from their mission statement and for the most part the majority if the public didn't associate them w/gm..they were profitable and viable and still would have turned a profit if they kept to the original gameplan.
-Hello, Hummer. Gm waited too long to cashout when the gas crisis hit.
-G8 idea...HOLD UP FOLKS...NOT WHAT YOU THINK....gm and pontiac waited too long to release a car that could compete w/the likes of bmw and lexus (m5 and isf)...by the time they did it was too little too late
-New GTO..sorry folks, lackluster styling, like the '95+ monte carlos. They should've went retro w/a '66 look alike..bring back the 389 via a punched out ls-uno....this along w/the g8 could've saved pontiac from the chopping block..hell, rebadge a 5th gen and change the styling a little and keep the firebird...bam...instant success.
-Cancelling the olds line was overdue. Unfortunately, there was no marketablility to the younger generation esp if they were going to keep Buick (as the new gs is hot). Their demographic were catered to octogenarian's who don't drive more than 20 miles a week and their car will last 30 years.
-Denali pickups and rear wheel steering. Remember these from 5 years ago? Each time i see one i cringe at how much it would cost to replace worn components...not needed when you have something big enough to drive over someone w/if your turning radius is in jeopardy..lol.
-Gm's idea to buy saab. Failing manufacturer w/a loyal fan base similar to waterfest attendee's...not solid enough to stand on their own. Unfortunately this Swedish egg was scrambled upon delivery unlike its lucrative counterpart base company Ikea.
-GM waiting too long to jump on the retro styling bandwagon. 5th gen was looong overdue as well as their answer to the pt cruiser=hhr. Market was saturated for the hhr as over a million + pt's were already sold and luckily the camaro was bad a$$ enough to hold its own agains the mustang, which came out a full 5 years earlier. Something tells me they have the answer to the beetle hidden in the gm vault upon release in 20 years.
-Opti-spark
-cross-fire injection in '82-84 vettes and early 3rd gen's

I own a 1500HD with the qaudrasteer. And I absolutely loved it. Owned the truck for 5 years. Bought used at 48,000 miles. Here at 108,000, never had a problem. It works so great with parking and towing and above 40 mph, the rear wheels turn in the same direction, so quick lane changes and you have less body roll. It's not the serviceability that was at fault but the cost for getting the option was.

[r0nin89]

I own a 1500HD with the qaudrasteer. And I absolutely loved it. Owned the truck for 5 years. Bought used at 48,000 miles. Here at 108,000, never had a problem. It works so great with parking and towing and above 40 mph, the rear wheels turn in the same direction, so quick lane changes and you have less body roll. It's not the serviceability that was at fault but the cost for getting the option was.


Werd. Did brakes on one at worked. Turned it around in the yard and went, wow this was a great idea. Too bad it didnt take off.

[88WS-6]

am i the only one that dislikes 4L60e transmissions ? or do they just dislike me ?

I've had two; one in a 1995 Blazer and one in a 2005 Trailblazer. The 95 lost 1st and 4th gear at 160k miles, all stock. The 05 was great for me with no issues. I sold it at 110k miles and it had a Transgo HD2 shift kit, vette servo and .500 boost valve from 50k miles up.

[z28camaro94]

When GM brought back the nova in the 80's with the toyota motor. idk what they were thinking.

also how many different firebird decals the had for the hood. different color feathers and the head facing different ways depending on wat the car came with. y couldnt they just go with one?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Berretta..... = doors falling off going down the road


2.8 3.1 etc... valve cover gasket design




if you mean the Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets on the 660's then nah the design on them were fine, its just when they moved to dexcool they didnt realize the dexcool would eat away the rubber inlays over time and create a ''blown head gasket'' type symptoms. lots of people got rid of a lot of good motors over a really cheap and easy fix.

which brings me to berettas. im a beretta fan just as much as i am of fbodies. theyre cars that have never failed me. a lot of them fell apart from cheap interiors but mechanically these are some of the best and most reliable cars you can own...granted as long as it was the 2.0/2.2 or the 2.8/3.1. the things not a lot of people know about berettas is that they were a test model for a lot of things gm ended up putting into their later cars. hell there are even fwd v8 and awd twin turbo v6 concepts of these floating around...and theyre amazing.

another little known fact...before all these kids were pining over their dohc hondas, gm was already ahead of the game with a 180ish hp dohc 2.3 l four banger known as the quad 4. it was totally ahead of its time but without the beretta and other little known gmfwd cars as a test bed for the 2.3, becoming the 2.4 twin cam in the z24's the ecotechs later on in the future might not have been as good learning all the ins and outs of a 4 cylinder running on a higher output than most.

If they had released them in america with the euro headlights it wouldve sold a bit better i think. it really shows the whole baby camaro idea off. this is a pic of a fully restored (laugh i know its funny to you) Beautiful MQBM Beretta GTZ from Europe.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/373/dsc01044s.jpg

more pics can be seen here :D
http://www.quad4forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19812

[sweetbmxrider]

Did anyone mention the thermostat housing/location on I think the transversely mounted 3.4's?

[Blacdout96]

-3800 II/III head flow design, just aweful.
-(Though it's eaton) the plastic puck coupler for the superchargers
-Chevrolet SSR pick up
-Multi-platforming the same damn chassis ( i.e. Blazer/Bravada/Jimmy...)
- $40,000 hybrid car

[BigAls87Z28]

-Chevrolet SSR pick up
-Multi-platforming the same damn chassis ( i.e. Blazer/Bravada/Jimmy...)
- $40,000 hybrid car

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.

The term you are looking for is rebadging. Multi-platforming is a fantastic idea and something that GM lacked for a long time.

What 40k hybrid car?

[Blacdout96]

Can we please keep GM sympathiser's out of the thread?

[maroman88]

he actually has 3 good points there... SSR was awesome and did what it was supposed to do, every company rebadges cars, and i assume u mean the volt when u refer to 'hybrid'?

[WildBillyT]

Yeah, but I'm trying to be as objective as I can in this thread. It's easy to spout personal preference stuff about what they should have done in your opinion, or speculate sales numbers, or what cars were a cool idea, or what cars are fun to drive.

For example, the SSR was not a great seller and did nothing like it should well, but at least it got people looking into GM products because it was a cool idea.

I'm talking fall-flat-on-your-face stuff. Like didn't/barely worked properly, a royal pain to maintain, missed the target market by a mile, etc.

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.

The term you are looking for is rebadging. Multi-platforming is a fantastic idea and something that GM lacked for a long time.

What 40k hybrid car?

Can we please keep GM sympathiser's out of the thread?

Cool, I get to quote myself.

SSR was around the same time as the Prowler (also a poor seller with retro styling) and the Thunderbird (same). They were all pushing the retro angle to see what people like. There was a purpose. Whether or not it accomplished what it needed to do can be debated. But it wasn't without some form of success.

[edpontiac91]

We forgot the ultra retro Chevy HHR, that tried to copy the PT Cruiser AFTER it was headed down the low volume trail! Lets also throw in the Chevy AVEO that GM cannot give away.:facepalm:

[91chevywt]

It seems like the general consensus is, one man's junk is another man's treasure. The specifics seem to have no trend whatsoever. Someone calls out a specific design, and like clockwork another defends it.

A BAD design is very subjective, I don't know that you can quantify it. Even with concrete numbers, polling data, and public opinion. This does not indicate quality whatsoever. One person may call a car with hand-crank windows and a manual transmission a good design for its simplicity, another may call said car a poor design for its lack of innovation and features. Who is right?

[WildBillyT]

It seems like the general consensus is, one man's junk is another man's treasure. The specifics seem to have no trend whatsoever. Someone calls out a specific design, and like clockwork another defends it.

A BAD design is very subjective, I don't know that you can quantify it. Even with concrete numbers, polling data, and public opinion. This does not indicate quality whatsoever. One person may call a car with hand-crank windows and a manual transmission a good design for its simplicity, another may call said car a poor design for its lack of innovation and features. Who is right?

See, I was wondering what the non-arguable stuff is. So far it's been a lot of subjective stuff.

The 4th gen window motor application is one of them. After 3 revisons they still suck. Same with the fuel sending unit. The '67 rear axle setup was so wheel-hoppy it broke rears. That's also a huge fail. The Eaton M90 coupler is kind of one, but the bigger fail is GM saying that you never need to change your supercharger oil... ever.

Cars that were cancelled and that you miss or cars that you just didn't think should get made isn't nearly the same thing.

[Blacdout96]

he actually has 3 good points there... SSR was awesome

SSR was neither a bad design or idea.



The 2004 model sold below expectations with under 9,000 sales at US$42,000 each. Citing a 301-day supply of SSRs, General Motors in December of that year announced five weeks of layoffs at Lansing Craft Centre, the factory that made the SSR. On November 21, 2005, GM announced that it would close the Craft Centre in mid-2006, spelling the end for the SSR. The final SSR, a unique black-on-silver model (Highest VIN 1GCES14H06B124112), was built on March 17, 2006.[2] Analysts estimate that 24,150 SSRs were produced in total. Of the total production, 24,112 were available for sale to the public.

[BigAls87Z28]

I do believe when it was given the LS2, sales picked up. Comparing sales of a handbuilt car is not always the best way to argue if it was a bad idea or not.

[LS1ow]

im not a fan of the SSR for its looks, but if that was say a LS2 sport truck as a Silverado i think it woulda been a lot better. i mean cmon, who doesnt love a ford lightning ?

Injector pumps on the earliery diesels.

[Blacdout96]

I believe there's a problem with the back injector(s) on the newer diesels that are leaking into the cylinder, or is that attributed to the Injector pumps

[WildBillyT]

im not a fan of the SSR for its looks, but if that was say a LS2 sport truck as a Silverado i think it woulda been a lot better. i mean cmon, who doesnt love a ford lightning ?

Injector pumps on the earliery diesels.

Silvy SS

[S.J.SLEEPER]

Duramax injectors... I should know...Ive done like 3 sets already

[fire-chickens]

Reason?

nobody has elaborated as to why they don't like the floor high beam switches, I'm still interested in hearing why.

[LS1ow]

Silvy SS

you ever seen a silverado SS try to run with a lightning ? stock for stock. its really not a contest lol

a nice Single Cab Shortbed LS2 pickup with a Stick woulda have been amazinggg :drool:

with all the nicey nice SS nic-nacs of coarse... suade, navi, ecttt... not just a work truck with a nice motor lol

guess there just really wasnt a market for them.

[Savage_Messiah]

hate the design of the new firebird they are coming out with

:lol:

[LTb1ow]

Duramax injectors... I should know...Ive done like 3 sets already

Maybe on the earlier ones, LLY and up are good to go, now if only they made the transmissions hold more than 400hp... :lol:

[BigAls87Z28]

you ever seen a silverado SS try to run with a lightning ? stock for stock. its really not a contest lol

a nice Single Cab Shortbed LS2 pickup with a Stick woulda have been amazinggg :drool:

with all the nicey nice SS nic-nacs of coarse... suade, navi, ecttt... not just a work truck with a nice motor lol

guess there just really wasnt a market for them.

Exactly. Here is my theory on that. Car people like the Lightning and truck people like the Silvy SS. If you like cars, the Lightning, as well as the Sy/Ty twins, appeal to you because they are lower, faster, better versions of a truck. But when you want to go buy a car, you realize that a truck isn't exactly the best performance buy when there are so many LS1 powered Camaros and Firebirds or Mustangs out there, so you buy the car.

Truck people want truck things, but they want to be faster than your average truck. They want the sporty look, but don't want to give up the space and utility of a truck. The Lightning offers zero utility due to its lower ride height, small bed, and lack of interior space. So they would rather buy a Silvy SS that makes 360hp and haul family/friends/etc than a Lighting that is just slightly faster.

Reason 523 why the SSR was never going to sell in high numbers: A Geo Metro had more usable space.

[LS1ow]

Exactly. Here is my theory on that. Car people like the Lightning and truck people like the Silvy SS. If you like cars, the Lightning, as well as the Sy/Ty twins, appeal to you because they are lower, faster, better versions of a truck. But when you want to go buy a car, you realize that a truck isn't exactly the best performance buy when there are so many LS1 powered Camaros and Firebirds or Mustangs out there, so you buy the car.

Truck people want truck things, but they want to be faster than your average truck. They want the sporty look, but don't want to give up the space and utility of a truck. The Lightning offers zero utility due to its lower ride height, small bed, and lack of interior space. So they would rather buy a Silvy SS that makes 360hp and haul family/friends/etc than a Lighting that is just slightly faster.

Reason 523 why the SSR was never going to sell in high numbers: A Geo Metro had more usable space.


true. the Silvy SS is a Truck and can be used as a truck... the Lightning cant be used as a truck. unless you work for harrys. and in the event you work for harrys. you were just fired.

[00 LS1 Z28]

Some men just want to watch the world burn