Drive: Camaro ZL1 vs Mustang GT500

[BigAls87Z28]

IrhW6W7eZDI

Great video by these guys.

[Mark B]

What video? All I see is a white box.

[BigRocsFirebird]

White box over here too

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Big white box on the desktop but the link worked from phone. Seen enough of these two cars being compared and the new GT500 is definately in a league of its own.

[sweetbmxrider]

Nice box

[WildBillyT]

Works fine for me.

[BonzoHansen]

because I fixed it this morning

[BigAls87Z28]

Worked for me last night as well.

[qwikz28]

Like I said on Facebook, I love the ZL1 and I love Chris Harris. Driving around in the cam'd ls1 has taught me that for the street, there is such thing as too much power. The GT500 is excessive. And don't get me wrong, I love horsepower.

This is actually one of my favorite clips by him as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY

[98tadriver]

i did my best to duplicate these cars on forza 4. the ZL1 won in the twisties and at the dragstrip. but once the drag slicks went on both cars, the gt500 won at the strip

[edpontiac91]

Like I said on Facebook, I love the ZL1 and I love Chris Harris. Driving around in the cam'd ls1 has taught me that for the street, there is such thing as too much power. The GT500 is excessive. And don't get me wrong, I love horsepower.

This is actually one of my favorite clips by him as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY

We are quickly approaching the point of no return. Really, for a street car, how much is TOO much. Any 17 year old can buy (or their parents chip in) a 650 hp car and take it out of the showroom and go 190+ mph. What is going to happen soon, is that somebody is going to wrap up one of these beasts around a pole, and kill themselves (or innocent bystanders).
From time to time I get to drive a MB SLS 6.2 litre-dual turbos with 640 hp and unless you have a good straight away, that much power comes on so soon, it can scare the crap out you. Just going around a corner from a stop and give it a touch to much gas, and this thing wants to do 360's in a heartbeat.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HORSEPOWER, but I also want to be able to control it, not have it control me. You watch these shows where they play with these cars on airfields and do doughnuts and power slides and go WOW that's so cool, but on the street it will get you killed. Just my :2cents:

[BullittSVT]

It's not up to you to decide how much is too much, if you got money you can go buy your toy and play with it. It's not the car that kills people it's the driver, responsibility is a choice and you've got to realize you can't do crap about dumb drivers, it's the police that try to prevent you from being a dick - but there's only so much they can do.

More horsepower the better, if you want to stay safe go stick with an econo car. Don't baby people, let them make their own decisions and if they wrap it around a tree oh well.

On topic, I think both of these cars do their job well.. thrill per dollar and fun per gallon! Now you've got to decide if you want a new base Corvette/Gt500/ZL1 - I love the options these days!

[WildBillyT]

It's not up to you to decide how much is too much, if you got money you can go buy your toy and play with it. It's not the car that kills people it's the driver, responsibility is a choice and you've got to realize you can't do crap about dumb drivers, it's the police that try to prevent you from being a dick - but there's only so much they can do.

More horsepower the better, if you want to stay safe go stick with an econo car. Don't baby people, let them make their own decisions and if they wrap it around a tree oh well.

On topic, I think both of these cars do their job well.. thrill per dollar and fun per gallon! Now you've got to decide if you want a new base Corvette/Gt500/ZL1 - I love the options these days!

I am just waiting for insurance companies to drop the hammer. People don't like to admit it but handling a high HP car is too much for many.

[BullittSVT]

How much do you think it costs to fully cover one of these cars with a driver that has no prior tickets and all the usual stuff that makes him a perfect candidate? Curious...

[WildBillyT]

How much do you think it costs to fully cover one of these cars with a driver that has no prior tickets and all the usual stuff that makes him a perfect candidate? Curious...

I was talking about companies just flat denying coverage to people based on age, etc.

[Paul Huryk]

We are quickly approaching the point of no return. Really, for a street car, how much is TOO much. Any 17 year old can buy (or their parents chip in) a 650 hp car and take it out of the showroom and go 190+ mph. What is going to happen soon, is that somebody is going to wrap up one of these beasts around a pole, and kill themselves (or innocent bystanders).
From time to time I get to drive a MB SLS 6.2 litre-dual turbos with 640 hp and unless you have a good straight away, that much power comes on so soon, it can scare the crap out you. Just going around a corner from a stop and give it a touch to much gas, and this thing wants to do 360's in a heartbeat.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HORSEPOWER, but I also want to be able to control it, not have it control me. You watch these shows where they play with these cars on airfields and do doughnuts and power slides and go WOW that's so cool, but on the street it will get you killed. Just my :2cents:

Agreed!

Problem is that these new cars are so freakin heavy (and have crappy aero) that they need a lot of power to move decently. And of course to go upscale like the GT500 and ZL1, you need even more. So we are at 660hp and counting. What happened to finesse? What happened to the 3500lb cars? Where is the ZL1 that can outrun a base Vette in top speed despite having 150hp more?

I just find it silly that the ZL1 has 580hp and can't even touch 185mph as aero is holding it back. Stick that motor in an IROC or GTA and it will blast right up to 210 with ease... Pretty much the same for a 4th gen too...

[BonzoHansen]

check out the chevy page on the ZL1 - they did a pile of aero changes just for that car. IIRC it went from having lift to down force over 150 or such.

[Blackbirdws6]

I would rather have a more stable car topping out at 185 than one that would go 200+ but be ready for take off.

[BonzoHansen]

Then you want a zl1

[LTb1ow]

Then you want a zl1

No, he wants a learjet

[Blackbirdws6]

I would need to drive both cars and go from there. A ZL1 with more power would be much more appealing. I'm not big on top speed numbers anyway since its something I would get to rarely experience.

[BigAls87Z28]

I believe what Ed was trying to say is that there is a law of diminishing returns.
How much faster would a ZL1 be if it had 660hp? Not that much faster, but the numbers would get people all excited.

The idea is to have a balanced car and that will be the name of the game moving forward. With Camaro and Mustang moving to lighter platforms by 2015, both cars will be more like affordable M3's than live-axle 4th gens and Fox bodies.

[Paul Huryk]

I would rather have a more stable car topping out at 185 than one that would go 200+ but be ready for take off.

Agreed, but you would think that with GM's resources such as their wind tunnels, CFD capabilities, and staff they could do both.

After posting yesterday, I found some info on the CoD of the ZL1 - it is about 0.405 as stated. I ran that through a top speed calculator and found that the 185mph top speed equates to about a 0.46 CoD at that power level. So Chevy somehow lowered the top speed by about 5 to 7mph with the gearing or somehow electronically. Not too bad for a retro brick after all...

I'm honestly more disappointed withe the tested acceleration figures more than anything... In most tests it seems to run like a 500hp car.

[elle]

ZL1 just got smoked by a Mustang gt500 at Atco. Not even close!

[Paul Huryk]

I believe what Ed was trying to say is that there is a law of diminishing returns.
How much faster would a ZL1 be if it had 660hp? Not that much faster, but the numbers would get people all excited.

The idea is to have a balanced car and that will be the name of the game moving forward. With Camaro and Mustang moving to lighter platforms by 2015, both cars will be more like affordable M3's than live-axle 4th gens and Fox bodies.

80hp at that weight and power level would be worth 5mph in the quarter, but could add 10 to 15mph in top speed. As it is, they seem to run like 500hp, 4100lb cars now.

I know GM put a lot of technology into the ZL1, making it much better than the SS, but they have a lot to do for the next generation to be competitive: pull out at least 400lbs, improve the aero considerably, and improve the interior so it looks modern - not retro. I hope GM does that and more.

[qwikz28]

80hp at that weight and power level would be worth 5mph in the quarter, but could add 10 to 15mph in top speed. As it is, they seem to run like 500hp, 4100lb cars now.

I know GM put a lot of technology into the ZL1, making it much better than the SS, but they have a lot to do for the next generation to be competitive: pull out at least 400lbs, improve the aero considerably, and improve the interior so it looks modern - not retro. I hope GM does that and more.

I think a lot of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too. You guys want these big powerful techy motors, in cars with fancy interiors that can drive like a cadillac, crash like a volvo, turn like a NA Miata, and sip gas like a prius. All this at a price below the companies using fancy materials like aluminum and carbon fiber. Sure, my cousin's 5th gen weighs a solid 400lbs more than my 4th gen, but considering, he gets a ton more car than I do. And, he has to worry less about dying from a minor fender bender.

[donnj]

WOW, at least some guys still know how to shift
u3gGWHV-sgE

[TTA850]

It's not up to you to decide how much is too much, if you got money you can go buy your toy and play with it. It's not the car that kills people it's the driver, responsibility is a choice and you've got to realize you can't do crap about dumb drivers, it's the police that try to prevent you from being a dick - but there's only so much they can do.

More horsepower the better, if you want to stay safe go stick with an econo car. Don't baby people, let them make their own decisions and if they wrap it around a tree oh well.

Exactly, let people take responsibility for themselves rather than legislate great cars out of existence (which is what we are heading towards with comments like too much power). Same with fuel economy, CAFE standards are killing off some great engines, the M156 in my car is a perfect example of a great engine being put to pasture. If you personally want less HP and more MPG your welcome to buy a prius or a volt, I however prefer the opposite and purchase my cars accordingly :)

That said what kills me about the ZL1 is that it has 80 less hp than the GT500 so I'd expect it to be slightly slower in certain tests however it has 100hp and 110lbs.ft. more that my C63 and from magazine testing along with my personal run ins with ZL1's they are almost dead even and the C sometimes having the advantage (Details from Car&Driver instrumented tests - C63 coupe on the left, ZL1 on the right). Yes I realize the C is more expensive, though the base prices are within reach of each other, but my point is 100 more hp and 110 more tq carrying only 125 lbs more and is in some instances slower? Chevys got some explaining to do before I'd buy one, but I'd take the GT500 in a heartbeat if I were in the market for that type of car.

[98tadriver]

ZL1 just got smoked by a Mustang gt500 at Atco. Not even close!

You do realize the gt500 showed up on drag radials with an x275 driver and the camaro was showroom stock with crappy driver right?