The 1988 GTA

[L695speed]

As some of you may know, I bought Matt's (88WS-6) 88 GTA. Koni Yellows, Eibach springs, LS1 driveshaft, 3.70 9 bolt rear, Polys, just about rust free and very straight save for a minor dent in the passenger quarter. L98, hardtop, cloth interior, analog gauges. Only problem it had a knock in the bottom end.

Dragged it up to Sussex County where I bolted down the seats with some spare hardware I had laying around...yes it was missing two nuts on each front seat...vacuumed out the interior and found a cassette of love songs in the tape deck.... Yanked the motor out, found the main bearings were destroyed, rod bearings were normal wear and tear, but the cam bearings and cam were in the same shape as the crank and mains. Destroyed.

Eagle cast crank, rebuild kit and an LT1 cam (Thanks to green92formula for that) later I'm almost done with it and just about ready to go back in the car. I'm thinking this car will be a stepping stone between my 84 in stock configuration and my 84 as it will be done when I finish that project. I will certainly get an idea of how it will handle thanks to the suspensions being nearly identical.

Perhaps this weekend if all goes well I'll have it on the street. Pics to follow. Since this was a quick rebuild, and the top half was very clean I left the heads alone save for cleaning them up. I'll do them eventually if needed.

[88WS-6]

That was the original owner's cassette tape that was in the stereo when I bought it.

Did you get the motor punched out at all? No stroker kit? Will the stock L98 heads handle the LT1 cam lift? Don't forget that it has a 3000 stall TC so double check that cam range.

[greenformula92]

the L98 heads should be able to handle that cam. It's not very big. I am glad to see you are making use of one of those cams i gave you

[1320B4U]

Post some pics you crazy kid.....2 3rd gens is 3 too many...or something like that.

[L695speed]

Post some pics you crazy kid.....2 3rd gens is 3 too many...or something like that.

So says the guy who has two third gens lol.

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/226.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/225.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/227.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/228.jpg

Better Dave? lol. The 84 is in the garage behind it.

Matt, I thought of getting it punched out, but when I talked to the machinist he said the block was so good (Just full of crap from the bearings) that there was really no need for machine work. Besides talking to a couple of friends who hang around at the strip, they say had you run the car and it was running good, you probably would have run a mid 13 with the gears and stall. And the rule of thumb with adding power is you'd have to upgrade everything behind it, I didn't want to turn this into a bigger project than I had to. Besides you had several vacuum leaks as well due to rotting gaskets in the throttle body and rotting vacuum hoses. So there may have been some performance left on the table.

As Greenformula92 said, the LT1 cam isn't that much different than the L98 so I should be alright there. I've heard rumors of 35 horses in that cam swap...yeah right with other work maybe but I know I will get something out of it. I didn't want to go too crazy with this one. The 84 is the wild child. Only thing I may do is paint the motor Poncho Blue.....

[88WS-6]

Original owner claimed it ran 12.9s but I always chalked it up to bs. I would have been happy with low 14s had I made it down the track.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Glad to see this clean third gen isn't going to waste!

Original owner claimed it ran 12.9s but I always chalked it up to bs. I would have been happy with low 14s had I made it down the track.

You mean had we not suggested that you take a car that sounds like a ticking time bomb down the track :wink:

[88WS-6]

You mean had we not suggested that you take a car that sounds like a ticking time bomb down the track :wink:

Suggested? It was more like, "don't you want to drive it home later?" and, "don't blow it up and ruin the track for everyone else." :lol:

[92REDBIRD]

Blowing up a car at the track isn't to bad......:wink:

[L695speed]

Well as they say, "build it, blow it up, rebuild it, repeat" lol. It was a good thing I decided to trailer it as opposed to throwing it back together and try running it up to where I'm at. I don't think the bottom end would have lasted that long.... Its already faster than stock, thats for sure....

[L695speed]

Valves are adjusted, intake is on, hell the whole top of the motor save for the runners and throttle body, fuel rail is done.

Gotta get a standard volume oil pump (the high volume ones seem to be too much trouble) torque the rods then the pan goes back on and it goes in the car. I've done everything by the book, so if something goes wrong its because of lack of practice...

[L695speed]

Engine is just about done save for passenger side exhaust manifold. Stud snapped, gotta do that. Or I could just bolt it in, and drive around on open exhaust but thats just obnoxious. Not that I haven't done it. Its stupid BS stuff left. thermostat housing, smog pump pulley, flywheel (when it goes in the car) dipstick tube, stuff like that. But its otherwise done.

[88WS-6]

Nice. I want a start up video.

[greenformula92]

Nice. I want a start up video.

I 2nd that motion

[L695speed]

I 2nd that motion

I'll see if I can get one, will have to borrow the bro's camera for that. Having the studs replaced today, gonna work on the broken eyelets for the grounds that bolt to the driver's side head, replace several vacuum lines, I'll see about getting the motor in the car in the next day or two. As much as I hate automatics....I have to admit, they're much easier to line up and install engines into LOL!

[L695speed]

its official, tomorrow its going back in. I've got nothing left to do on the stand. Gonna set it at TDC so I know where I am at for the distributor, throw the plugs in, wires, and oil filter, then in it goes.

[88WS-6]

Sweet

[L695speed]

Its in....... :mrgreen:

[L695speed]

Hood is back on, just about half the wiring is in, damn I'm cruising....

[L695speed]

Well the weather has pretty much halted what was steady progress. I was hoping to have it back on the ground yesterday, we had every severe storm hit us. And today its on and off rain with the ground soaking wet. If I can get the last two trans bolts down low tight, torque up the mount bolts, do the exhaust and tighten the starter it can come off the stands.....all I need is a couple hours of DRY weather.

[L695speed]

Its on the ground......rail and injectors are in. All thats left is the penluem, runners, distributor, wires, valve covers, belt, fans and cross fingers. Make sure everything is tight too. I couldn't get the passenger exhaust on. I guess the studs were not lined up right. Top two trans bolts were not playing ball either. I'll have the local mechanic do that once I have it running, also have him make sure the other 4 are tight as they should be. some stuff is easier on a lift.....

[The Fixer]

Here's something to try for the top two trans bolts. Drop the crossmember and angle the trans down a bit (put the jack under the trans mount), and if you go back by the tailshaft you should be able to see the bolts clearly. Then use about 24" of extensions and you should be able to reach them from there. I've never had access to a lift, and this was the way we we were able to get the trans in and out of the Monte several times.

[deadtrend1]

Here's something to try for the top two trans bolts. Drop the crossmember and angle the trans down a bit (put the jack under the trans mount), and if you go back by the tailshaft you should be able to see the bolts clearly. Then use about 24" of extensions and you should be able to reach them from there. I've never had access to a lift, and this was the way we we were able to get the trans in and out of the Monte several times.

This usually works, but i also normally pull the distributor first.

[L695speed]

Steve and Deadtrend, I need to get them back in, bottom four are in and tight as I can get them. People have told me to avoid dropping the crossmember on the older cars because it can lead to broken bolts and more pain in the ass work that doesn't need to be done. I can get at them from the top, but they won't start threading in. I'm gonna keep going because I want to know if the motor will run and won't leak and all that crap. I don't want to waste days trying to get those bolts in to no avail. If it runs then I'll get them in or have them put in.

[L695speed]

Well its just about ready to fire. Gotta get the wires on, EGR hose hooked up, fluids in, make sure everything is tight, crank it over without the fuel relay in place, then plug it in and cross my fingers.

On another note, if anyone has a upper radiator shroud for a dual fan setup I'll take it. Upper hole where the passenger fan attaches to the shroud is cracked and fan is hanging free. Thats like the only thing I need.

[L695speed]

ITS STARTING TO AWAKEN FROM ITS SLUMBER!!! It actually surprised me and fired while listening for the solenoid clicking. I have oil pressure and now have a place to start tomorrow. But it caught and fired briefly for a second or two on its first try.

[88WS-6]

http://motoredbikemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Gene-Wilder-Its-Alive.jpg

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Woohoo!

[L695speed]

http://motoredbikemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Gene-Wilder-Its-Alive.jpg

HELL YES! I'll have it running better sometime today or tomorrow. We're going to see the Batman flick at the Liberty Science Center so I may not have much time to play with it since we're cooking dinner early and I'm fixing my sister's flat... Speaking of sister's car, its hilarious. The GTA is parked on one side and her car being a 92 Mazda 323 hatch next to it. The GTA looks like a legit race car compared to that :kneeslap:.

[L695speed]

ITS OFFICIALLY ALIVE!!! Ran for more than a minute without any loss in oil pressure or what not. But I gotta fix those vac leaks and timing needs to be fine tuned. It fired up and ran on the first try without any hesitation once I got the battery back up. I had to kill it because it was smoking from somewhere. Someone said its likely the rings needing to seal. The passenger exhaust is not 100% hooked up because of a crooked stud so that could be a factor too. NO leaks down below or anywhere as far as I can see. I really need another pair of eyes. TO be sure.

[greenformula92]

You will have some oil blow by until the rings fully seat which would explain the smoke

[L695speed]

You will have some oil blow by until the rings fully seat which would explain the smoke

Yeah I forgot about that bit, someone else said the same. It was just a lil disconcerting bec it was so low to the ground and circulating weird. I didn't really want to get into it since we were supposed to head out in the evening and I had to cook dinner early. But tomorrow there should be nothing on the slate so I'll grab the timing light and set that it should be much better after that.

[L695speed]

Had it running for 30 minutes. No leaks, no smoking, no wild temp fluctuations. We're good to take it out. Get in, try to go, would barely creep at 3000. I was low on ATF big time even after I checked it....talk about an Auto trans noob mistake........:facepalm:

[1320B4U]

I loaded the rear hatch glove compartment w/moon rocks..sorry i forgot to tell you.

[L695speed]

I loaded the rear hatch glove compartment w/moon rocks..sorry i forgot to tell you.

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. I deserve that. I thought I had some in it. Apparently more drained out than thought.... I honestly thought I had the brakes stuck from sitting for awhile. But I threw it in N and pushed and it moved easily, so then a friend texted me and said trans fluid. So I checked it. sure enough it was damn low, I added a qt and it still didin't show on the stick....:facepalm:

[L695speed]

And its on the street...only problem is speedo don't work but who needs speedos LOL. Seriously Matt did it work when you had it? If so what do I need to do to fix it. You're good as your word though, IT IS FAST compared to what my 84 was when I had that crap caprice motor in it. May be as quick as my bro's fiero.

[greenformula92]

check the vss plug

[L695speed]

check the vss plug

THat was my first thought, it comes off the trans right? The only thing is I see the VSS referred to when dealing with digital gauges not the traditional analog ones. Are there two different setups or is it the same regardless of gauge cluster options for '88?

[//<86TA>\\]

the trans has an electric VSS, all birds after 85 had an electric on. On the tail shaft, driverside. It may have come off with all the work.

sorry about the trans being low, thats kinda my fault. You have to check it when its running and warm. When Matt and i took the front of the engine off to check for possible damper issues, we started it briefly without the radiator in the car, and the trans lines were going no where, so it barfed a bit of trans fluid everywhere, hence the shortage.

good to hear its up and running again!

[L695speed]

the trans has an electric VSS, all birds after 85 had an electric on. On the tail shaft, driverside. It may have come off with all the work.

sorry about the trans being low, thats kinda my fault. You have to check it when its running and warm. When Matt and i took the front of the engine off to check for possible damper issues, we started it briefly without the radiator in the car, and the trans lines were going no where, so it barfed a bit of trans fluid everywhere, hence the shortage.

good to hear its up and running again!

Ok I'll check that after I get the plates. And no worries about the trans, I'd just chalk it up to me being an auto trans noob. I drive manuals almost exclusively and I hardly ever check the trans fluid. No reason to unless something is wrong. With autos it seems you have to check it lol. I checked it when my buddy said check it and the car was running at the time had been running for some time too. I had it running while doing the timing and burping the cooling system. Had no leaks, no wild temp fluctuations, nothing to indicate a problem at all, oil pressure was good and steady, naturally changes when you push the RPMs up. But I don't see any reason to keep me from driving it whenever I want. Before I do that though, I'm having the local mechanic get that exhaust on for me and the vac leaks, I'll have him double check the trans fluid too make sure I didn't overfill it. Doesn't look like I did. But so far I'm impressed LOL. I'll have it at a meet soon enough, maybe I'll have it at the island meet if there is one there again.

[L695speed]

VSS is disconnected. I'm gonna go through the manual and search on TGO but if anyone knows off the top of their head what color the VSS wires are I'd appreciate it.

[L695speed]

I found it on TGO guys, it also answered the question of where this one square 4 pin connector went. Now I should know how fast I'm running, because if the 84 was any indication with a totally busted suspension, as I discovered, however fast you feel like you're going, you're really going like 20 MPH faster at least.....

[L695speed]

Plates on, speedo fixed. I drove it to the gas station 3 miles away, then came back and went past my house, probably a good 10 mile run speeds ranged from dead stop to 60 mph. Ran great, sounds great at speed, but I do need to get that exhaust fixed. I'll get pics when I get the chance. I still need to put the hood latch back in its place, but I think we can move this out of the project thread. Hell even the SES light didn't come on. But now I know something is out of wack on the daily...you know something is not right when a 25 year old car is more solid than a ten year old one.

[L695speed]

And now for the picture extravaganza! Excuse the mess, we use the garage for storage and cars. My brother is bad at putting stuff back where it belongs and some of the mess came from disassembly of the motor and etc. As I've said, I looked over the heads and decided to just clean up the chambers and leave them be.

Enough talk, time for the show.

Great another third gen in the driveway with no motor, now what?
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/006-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/011.jpg

Disassembly of the L98 not in order....but yeah.
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0052-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0042.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0022.jpg

Cause of death... Can see the bearing surfaces are grooved, totally destroyed.
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/004-2.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/002-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/012-1.jpg

[L695speed]

Pics continued....

Resurrection
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/013.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/015.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0102-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/019-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/018-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/020-1.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0222.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0232.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0262.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0292.jpg

Putting it back where it belongs....
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0342.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0332.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0362.jpg

Finishing up...
http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss158/labrchr/0372.jpg


I don't know if I have any further pics beyond that. But I will get more of it in places other than my driveway and in the air LOL.

[88WS-6]

And its on the street...only problem is speedo don't work but who needs speedos LOL. Seriously Matt did it work when you had it? If so what do I need to do to fix it. You're good as your word though, IT IS FAST compared to what my 84 was when I had that crap caprice motor in it. May be as quick as my bro's fiero.

Speedo worked fine. It didn't when I got the car because the PO put in the 3.70 gears, but I got that fixed. Details here:

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55254


Put a few hundred more miles on her, find some open road, brake stand it to 3k and hold on... :twisted:

[88WS-6]

You should put your T56 into the GTA...

[L695speed]

You should put your T56 into the GTA...

You have no idea how tempted I am to do that............ But seeing as I am planning on picking up an engine for the 84, hopefully sometime this week, it seems kind of self defeating to take it back off the road. The T56 is already installed in the 84 and setup for it with the tailhousing machined for the mechanical speedo. So I would have to change more than just the trans. The 84 could very well be a runner before the year is out with a cash infusion for the machine work. I'll have to ask someone I know what he did with his Vortec heads to make the power hes making.

If I find another T56 for a steal like I did the first one......all bets are off as to what I do with it, it very well could go into the GTA.

[1320B4U]

What did you pay for the t56 you got by chance? complete??

[L695speed]

What did you pay for the t56 you got by chance? complete??

was 700 for the following from a 97 Z28 with like 93K miles on it,

Trans, bellhousing, slave (replaced slave as precaution), 4th gen pedals, hardware (though some was missing) clutch disc and pressure plate, flywheel, a 4th gen crossmember,

I had to get a fork and T pivot, and a shifter stick. I had the shifter but not the stick.

Naturally I had the housing machined to work with the mechanical speedo to save me the wiring hassle so it will work on cars with a mechanical speedo if change the gears to spec for mechanical speedo cars. But like I said, since its already setup for the 84 its kind of pointless. Especially since I theoretically could have the 84 on the street within a couple months after that. However, seeing as I'll be stroking the motor, it will be a lil more time before it sees the street under its own power.

[1320B4U]

Gotcha....i've heard guys getting them for 5bills but mostly there around for grand-1200. I picked up a complete t5 for a rainy day but we's on a drought.

[L695speed]

He was a guy living in Stillwater up here. Found it on TGO. The guy was asking 800 and didn't want to ship just wanted someone to pick it up and go. He was moving so he wanted it gone. I PMed him immediately and offered 700 cash and I could easily pick it up. He came to me in spite of others beating me to it saying he would take the cash to avoid the meeting up or driving or shipping hassle. I know they're going for 1000-1500 around here just for the trans. So I got a steal. So because of the going rate for them, I'll likely hold off til I have some actual cash coming in and can spend the 1200 for a T56 for another project. Til then if I get a manual whether it be a 5 or 6 or even a 4 speed I will look for cars that already have the manual trans.