spun a bearing:(

[WSex]

im truly upset about this but knew it was coming sooner or later.
recommendations on bearings?

[NJ Torque]

Main? Rod? How are you sure?

[WSex]

the god awful rubbing noise coming from above the oil pan.
not sure if its rod or main hoping to drop the suspension some time this week.

[LTb1ow]

Why would you drop the suspension to fix a bearing???

[greenformula92]

maybe hes thinking rebuild

[MyFirstZ]

Why would you drop the suspension to fix a bearing???


To pull the motor ?

Unless you know another way of doing bearings in the car ?

[LTb1ow]

The motor has to come out the bottom in the ls1 cars?? I read on tech that you can pull them out the top but maybe not

[MyFirstZ]

Without getting into preferred methods looks like hes coming out the bottom

[NJ Torque]

Low on oil? What happened?

[WSex]

i like going my comfortable way will be taking plenty of pictures.
there are many arguments with removing from bottom and top.
i wont do either.
ill be removing the pan and swapping one bearing at a time spinning the mains out and spinning them back on.
cummins sells an oil galley screw to rotate the engine to push the old bearing out and the new one in.

[WSex]

Low on oil? What happened?

no always good on oil but have been finding small shavings for over 40k miles.
i sent oil out to lab and brought back material only found in bearings some time ago.

just the constant beating on stock bottom end.

[deadtrend1]

To be doing internal motor work like that, its most likely best to do it out of the car.

[WSex]

To be doing internal motor work like that, its most likely best to do it out of the car.

i agree but this is my daily and i hate borrowing cars from people.

[BarneyMobile]

If a rod bearing spun, that rod will be trashed and the crank will be damaged as well. If it spun a bearing the motor has to come out!

[Featherburner]

If a rod bearing spun, that rod will trashed and the crank will be damaged as well. If it spun a bearing the motor has to come out!This!

[LTb1ow]

LS1s are a dime a dozen, why even bother half ass fixing it?

[WSex]

LS1s are a dime a dozen, why even bother half ass fixing it?

why do you say its half assed.
does everyone drop the motor to change sparkplugs too?

[BarneyMobile]

How do you plan checking bearing clearences? As my previous post says, if a rod bearing spun then that rod is no good. It will also damage the rod journal on the crankshaft. If a main bearing spun, then the crank is trashed and the block will need to be machined then fitted for thicker main bearings. Throwing new bearing at a damaged rotating assembly will solve nothing and would definately be half assed. That motor has to come out of the car. Besides, I don't think you gonna be able get the main bearings out without removing the crank.

[WSex]

what would be possible to switch from my ls1 to a 5.3??

[LTb1ow]

why do you say its half assed.
does everyone drop the motor to change sparkplugs too?

Wait, is this a serious thread?

[Blackbirdws6]

what would be possible to switch from my ls1 to a 5.3??

I think you would just swap the crank to one with a shorter stroke. No biggie doing it while you are in there. Take some pics and do a write-up on how to do this.

[creeper]

I dropped the pan to replace some rod bearings on a jeep grand cherokee once, just to see if we could get a few months out of it before it got junked. The crank didn't look awful, threw the new bearings in and it lasted about 20 minutes before the ka klack ka klack ka klack came back. A friend told me he had done it before and had it last up to a year, but I had my doubts hahah.

[LTb1ow]

I think you would just swap the crank to one with a shorter stroke. No biggie doing it while you are in there. Take some pics and do a write-up on how to do this.

What if you installed an LS2 crank, wouldn't a longer throw give you more torque down low to compete with all the TPI motors?

[Blackbirdws6]

What if you installed an LS2 crank, wouldn't a longer throw give you more torque down low to compete with all the TPI motors?

I think you are right. You may have to pull the heads to cut the pistons to make sure you don't have any clearance issues with the valves.

[Slow-V6]

I spun 2 rod bearings in my old Firebird. It was my daily driver. I used 3 qts of Lucas oil stabablizer and 2 qts of 20W50 and the knocking went away and I drove the car for 25,000 more miles before I threw a rod!! In that time which was a yr, I found a used motor with 4,000 miles on it that I saved up to get and had it installed. Just a option. Might not be the smartest thing to do but when you got to get to work everyday!

[WSex]

its still not klankating or knocking
its a rubbing sound
i thought it was something belt driven removed the belt but it wasnt that.
it stiill rubs with clutch in.
i was cruising down to sayreville nothing over 2k
when i started it back up there was a constant rub
it can be something with the flywheel i really dont know.
i have 2 weeks left of school.
im droving up and down 250 a day on repossesed cars before they go to the auction.
by the looks of it i will be dropping it completely itll be easier in the short and long run
some bolts are so seized not even 3/4 guns twist them out
already broke a sway bar ling bolt with 2 ratchets and manual power.
if someone is around newark today and would like to gove me a proffesional opinion on whats happenening please docome and have a beer.
but i guess today im going to unhook everything and drain it
put a lift table to Support a dolly in the back and completely remove it
maybe call it a day once i roll a cherry picker 1/2 mile down the main ave

once i do that ill put the longblock on a stand and operate from there.
and if its easy and cost effective ill put a 12 valve cummins and be the most hated man in gm history.
but lets not get into that and hopefully ican get this thing rolling.

[WildBillyT]

i agree but this is my daily and i hate borrowing cars from people.

Be prepared to have to do that.

why do you say its half assed.
does everyone drop the motor to change sparkplugs too?

It's half assed because you were pumping bearing material through the engine for 40k miles and you are only inspecting and replacing the bearings.

BarneyMobile summed it up great.

If you spun a rod, the rod is trashed and it's got to be torn down
If you spun a main, the crank is trashed and it's got to be torn down

EDIT:

Just saw your other post. If you think it might be trans related, start there. If you are whooping on a manual trans car hard you could certainly damage the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, etc etc.

[Featherburner]

Shot TO bearing.

[WSex]

i dropped that trans 3 times this year idont doubt it wit my luck.
long story short it has a stock clutch flywheel and pressure playe
the to bearing growled at me 2 months ago or so so did the pilot bearing and what else not
it can be flywheel but idk im going to drop it regardless now ill check the bearings and all and ill work from there

[creeper]

my pilot bearing made a rubbing sound when it failed, very low miles on it

[LTb1ow]

I think you should install a 12v in it, no question about it.

[WSex]

I think you should install a 12v in it, no question about it.

i knew youd agree.

[WSex]

my pilot bearing made a rubbing sound when it failed, very low miles on it

i really hope so when it rubbed on friday it then stopped and started again at night.

[Mike]

i was cruising down to sayreville nothing over 2k.

good old "just driving along" story. You expect people to believe that you were cruising around and never took the car More than 1100 rpm off of idle ?

[WSex]

good old "just driving along" story. You expect people to believe that you were cruising around and never took the car More than 1100 rpm off of idle ?

noo dont get me wrong i run the car hard really hard.
if my car had sweat glands youd find a lake underneath it.
but friday morning i drove down to sayreville and when i started it up in the afternoon it had that rubbing sound an i drove home when i got home 20 min later it stopped. later that night it started again and now we're at this point.

[LTb1ow]

Throw some heavy ass oil in, see if sound goes away.

[WSex]

driving home in about 2 hours ill have th oil drained and praying for no excessive shavings

[WildBillyT]

noo dont get me wrong i run the car hard really hard.
if my car had sweat glands youd find a lake underneath it.
but friday morning i drove down to sayreville and when i started it up in the afternoon it had that rubbing sound an i drove home when i got home 20 min later it stopped. later that night it started again and now we're at this point.

Well, bearings don't magically get better. So there's that.

[LTb1ow]

Well, bearings don't magically get better. So there's that.

Pretty sure you can have bearings sent out for repacking and rebuild.

[MyFirstZ]

Are we talking main/rod bearings or the pilot bearing

For the price of a bearing there is no reason to send them out.

Even if you drain the oil and it is a rod/main you still may not see anything in it and he's right they will not just magically get better and stop making noise. As far as a pilot bearing it is a different type obviously and depending on temperature and torque on the bearing you can experience noises that come and go if its failing

For 5$ and a few hours I'd definitely try the pilot first

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/c4a5ed2f.jpg

whats this?
drover sode behind cover by fan.
just unplug and dont worry.

ohh yeah im removing the whole powertrain
ive dosconnected the coolant lines and ac and everything except a fuel line gettig proper removal tool tomorrow.
need to remove steering shafty thingy and unbolt the ecu and lay it over the engine.

some disclaimers on the pcm i do not want to burn it out.
will it be alright?

[grazi]

It looks like tarantula legs in front of a disco ball

[MyFirstZ]

I would have went with tarantula doing a facebook mirror shot

better picture possible ?

[Blackbirdws6]

Looks like cruise control box?

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/db9f75cb.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/ee1451b6.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/0b9f4cb5.jpg

3 hours in on my first ls1 removal

[MyFirstZ]

Pretty good so far.

Gonna have to go higher though to pull the engine out.

Hopefully you have a few more eyes when it comes down. Don't forget the brake and fuel lines.

That picture you took. Is it mounted on the frame rails? if so its the cruise control box.

[WSex]

yes i disconnected the brake lines from the module
and yes it has a big connector hooked up to it
on the inside of the fender.

[MyFirstZ]

the brake lines also are connected on the car and subframe. Just get a couple eyes in there when you start dropping.

sounds like the cruise control. Only thing I can think of that is pretty much hidden.

[deadtrend1]

I think the air pump is up in there also, but the pic looks like the cruse.

[Sprayed 99]

Thread is full of fail. However i do like how u stuffed your girlfriends panties in your intake op

[MyFirstZ]

Why's that ?

[V]

The half silver/half black plastic box you are touching in that one pic IS the cruise control box.

[WSex]

The half silver/half black plastic box you are touching in that one pic IS the cruise control box.

thanks v
and everone else

[WSex]

put in another hour today and attempted to slip the exhaust off which got me know where
and got the drive shaft loose in the most awkward spot
tried to remove the cruise box connector for about 5 min until it hit me it belongs with the bcm and not pcm
just have the ground straps on and the torque arm once i remove that ill use the 3/4 gun to quickly loosen the k
hoping to put in 3 hours tomorrow and having it way out of the car.

[MyFirstZ]

Why do you own a 3/4 gun ?

[Featherburner]

Why do you own a 3/4 gun ?Doesn't everyone?:shrug:

[deadtrend1]

Doesn't everyone?:shrug:

No, I got a 15/16 gun. Its custom.

[BonzoHansen]

Why do you own a 3/4 gun ?
I think his Dad works on big trucks. Probably has a 1" set too.

But why you'd need anything over 1/2" to take a bolt off a 4th gen is way beyond me.

[Sprayed 99]

:popcorn:

[L695speed]

On removing the LS1, heres a thought and don't jump on me all at once for suggesting it. My brother's Fiero we remove the engine by dropping the cradle using a jack/jacks and a furniture trolley, we use the crane on the body and just lift the body up high enough to slip the engine out from under it. Could that same principle be applied to an LS1 4th gen? It may be easier that way.

Take it from a guy who rebuilt a TPI 350 with ruined bearings... Pay attention to the bearing surfaces and look for material. Can also cut open the oil filter and look for shavings. The bearings, crank and cam damage combined I found wound up having me replacing the crank and cam as well. I was going to leave the cam alone til I realized at someone's suggestion that shavings in the oil mean shavings in the oil galleries and the rest of the lubrication system. Had I not pulled the cam I would have just destroyed a freshly rebuilt motor. So pull it all apart and have it tanked and cleaned out at a machine shop. I tried at home with brake cleaner and etc. No way I would have gotten all the crap out.

[BonzoHansen]

On removing the LS1, heres a thought and don't jump on me all at once for suggesting it. My brother's Fiero we remove the engine by dropping the cradle using a jack/jacks and a furniture trolley, we use the crane on the body and just lift the body up high enough to slip the engine out from under it. Could that same principle be applied to an LS1 4th gen? It may be easier that way.
Like so?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4009a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4013a.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

put in another hour today and attempted to slip the exhaust off which got me know where
and got the drive shaft loose in the most awkward spot
tried to remove the cruise box connector for about 5 min until it hit me it belongs with the bcm and not pcm
just have the ground straps on and the torque arm once i remove that ill use the 3/4 gun to quickly loosen the k
hoping to put in 3 hours tomorrow and having it way out of the car.

Your BCM is on the firewall behind the dash, not under the hood or fenders. Keep with the updates though!

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Doesn't everyone?:shrug:

**** that, 1 inch and bust! The bolt that is :lol:

[L695speed]

Like so?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4009a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4013a.jpg

My thoughts exactly. Noted for future reference.

[V]

been there, done that

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/ls1out4.jpg




BUT, this is how you remove a catback the easy way....


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/86a.jpg

[LTb1ow]

You guys need to step up your game. Patio bricks are where its at.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs305.snc4/40579_1512056797386_1113366798_1529255_7203298_n.j pg

[MyFirstZ]

Gotcha 3/4 just sounds like trouble on a car though.


Think when he said the cruise belongs with the bcm he meant wiring wise as in it doesnt go to the ecm .... No idea honestly.

[WSex]

Like so?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4009a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/1999Z28/IMG_4013a.jpgthat picture made it look very easy

Why do you own a 3/4 gun ?
to break things and make sure theyre extra tight which ends up breaking.
I think his Dad works on big trucks. Probably has a 1" set too.
no my dads an operator but we do own a small business with triaxles which means i do have a 1 inch set that we remove all our wheels with and man that thing weighs too much

[WSex]

Gotcha 3/4 just sounds like trouble on a car though.


Think when he said the cruise belongs with the bcm he meant wiring wise as in it doesnt go to the ecm .... No idea honestly.

yes exactly it was just a brain fart

[rickyd13]

any good news yet?

[WSex]

there is no good news

there a tech tuesday question though
what is this part not the cruise control box but right above it
it has a hose to it ill get a better pic if needed. forst one to respond with the right answer wins but since idk the answer figure it out.
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/0E4675EE-1ECD-4656-9527-3EC2D9ACE019-429-000000CAFA510F5B_zpscee3bdd3.jpg

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/8AEE5A65-35EA-4D3A-B835-01ED2120B0FE-429-000000CAFD9FFE53_zps1b0495d7.jpg
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/BCD8D879-C117-40F1-8BFD-3C7B08FF493B-429-000000CB0ABD5460_zps948a56d4.jpg
this is me making sure all the fluids leave the driveway eventhough its raining. on my dads 2 week old cement driveway

[LTb1ow]

Air pump

[WSex]

Air pump

ohh
well that means everyone else lost. if youre right.
you own a diesel you must be a smart guy in that case youre right even if youre not

[V]

he's right

[WSex]

he's right

v have i ever mentioned youre banner is epic im a strong believer in 4 doors for more whor...s

[WSex]

oh yeah i also picked up the fuel line disconnect tool:)

[WSex]

only cracked in 45 min today got the exhaust out (y pipe) removed the condenser cleaned the 1 ton of dirt off the radiator and removed it along with the bumper.

picking up the hoist tomorrow to lift the body which will make it easier to loosenthe torque arm and then all i need to remove is the pcm and ground wires.

pop quiz how many groundwires are connected to the motor
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/B5C4B44F-FC83-4BB5-89C3-193616DB151C-1794-0000019A3DCF8B85_zps1121bd15.jpg

i know it doesnt look like much improvement from yesterday but a thread is worthless without pictures

[grazi]

I want to guess and say 2

[V]

grounds are on back of drivers head. braided strap by alt. should be the main ones. rest are visible, just trace battery cable

[MyFirstZ]

Yeah I just know the two held on by the 15mm on the back of each head.

[SRGN]

I pulled the motor out of my TA in a few hours, came out the top. Removed the crank pulley for more clearance. New engine went back in the car in a half a day.

[MyFirstZ]

Must have been hauling ass, fluid and tools every where

[WSex]

def hauled ass on that one.
i unfortunately didnt get the hoist so no progress today

[WSex]

quick question does the oil pressure read before pr after the oil filter?
where would i get an oil filter tested for its flow?

[Blackbirdws6]

Are you trying to determine the bearing failure was due to a lack of flow through the filter?

[WSex]

the filter was slightly sucked in at the top about the size of a quarter.
but ive always had pressure. 40 at idle 70 at 6800

[WSex]

Are you trying to determine the bearing failure was due to a lack of flow through the filter?

its a possibility. thats why id like to check.
i removed the oil yesterday and the plug didnt have much shavings. but i smeared it on my finger and they became complete silver.

[WSex]

when dropping ls1 with harness hokke on theres a set of wires running to the inside of the car
how do i remove them? and where

[WSex]

nevermind i got it

[WSex]

powertrain is out!

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/933A8754-FDA2-43D7-8D8C-5E437BD95A52-154-00000005A3E020DB_zpsefafa4c3.jpg

now that i lookat it its very damn easy to drop this swap.
already had seperated trans in this pic and everything there was good.
putting it on the mount tomorrow and see what mess is there.

[MyFirstZ]

I would still change the pilot while its out again.

Good luck. Sometimes finding a visual confirmation will play mind game with you.

"Is that it!? No I think this is....... But thats just like this one ! "

Good luck ! Take pictures.

[WSex]

yeah i changed the pilot 20k miles ago but ill do it again for 11 dollars.
still want to know where i can get an oil filter flow tested.
will try getting it on stand tomorrow.
but afraid bc my stand is 1000 pounds max:/

[MyFirstZ]

A long block shouldn't come close to that. Maybe 600 ish

[L695speed]

yeah i changed the pilot 20k miles ago but ill do it again for 11 dollars.
still want to know where i can get an oil filter flow tested.
will try getting it on stand tomorrow.
but afraid bc my stand is 1000 pounds max:/

A stand should handle an LS1 no problem. I think my stand has an 800 lb max and that could handle a SBC no problem.

[Sprayed 99]

I pulled the motor out of my TA in a few hours, came out the top. Removed the crank pulley for more clearance. New engine went back in the car in a half a day.

Thats how we do every 4th gen fbody. If u tilt the front of the motor upwards when pulling it out with engine hoist u can leave the balancer on. Only takes a few hours too. No need to bleed brakes or do a wheel alignment. Plus u can leave the trans in. And installation is way easier not to mention way faster.

[coolmanvette75]

A long block shouldn't come close to that. Maybe 600 ish

I think Beggs has a 5.3 for cheap...

[MyFirstZ]

Talking weight....

But thanks I've been looking for a new block for my build

[WSex]

got the crank out
for stock bearings they dont looktoo bad.
the crank has a hairline groove whoch barely cathes a ginger nail. the bearings have a wear spot on the same place in every singl one.
nothing spun thankgod.
i think the crank is out of balance.
if i do need to get a new one will a ls2 crank bolt right up.

[WildBillyT]

A stand should handle an LS1 no problem. I think my stand has an 800 lb max and that could handle a SBC no problem.

A 4 point (non T-bar style) engine stand will hold a fully dressed cast iron big block with no issue.

[WSex]

its a t style stand

[WildBillyT]

its a t style stand

Will be fine with an LS1.

Hate to say it but it sure sounds like this was in fact a transmission problem.

[MyFirstZ]

Agreed.

[Blackbirdws6]

Good time to slip in a cam, throw on some heads. :)

[WSex]

everything is good on the trans was rpm related.
no difference clutch in clutch out
pilot bearing is good but i can change it anyways.

when i removed the bearings i could smellthe metal friction.

[WSex]

Good time to slip in a cam, throw on some heads. :)

been there done that.
50k miles ago trickflow 215
cartek custom grind from compcam.
my top end is good.
life of brokes ass school kids
cant build a whole motor in 1 shot

[SRGN]

Thats how we do every 4th gen fbody. If u tilt the front of the motor upwards when pulling it out with engine hoist u can leave the balancer on. Only takes a few hours too. No need to bleed brakes or do a wheel alignment. Plus u can leave the trans in. And installation is way easier not to mention way faster.

Yup, been doing them this way for years. I usually wind up installing an UD pulley anyway so I like having the extra clearance. C5s are a bit of a pain but 4th gens are pretty much cut and dry.

[L695speed]

A 4 point (non T-bar style) engine stand will hold a fully dressed cast iron big block with no issue.

I have the 4 point, bolts at 4 points where the bellhousing goes. Good to know this tidbit.... Don't think I've seen a T bar.

Anyway, back on topic, Nice work on getting that motor out. If the bearings all look good though I agree it may be a trans problem. Ah, its good practice lol.

[WSex]

suggestions on bearings to get
and oil pump?

[WSex]

should i remove te cam to check the cam bearings?

[V]

should i remove te cam to check the cam bearings?


well you have it this far apart... lol

[Mike]

You just said the top end is good. Now you want to pull it apart?

[WSex]

would just like sine opinions on bearings and the dofferent groove sizes

[LTb1ow]

You just said the top end is good. Now you want to pull it apart?

Dunno how you would assembled the bottom end otherwise.. ?

Although in this thread, maybe theres a way to do it ... :rofl:

[Mike]

Dunno how you would assembled the bottom end otherwise.. ?

Although in this thread, maybe theres a way to do it ... :rofl:

Already said he is changing bearings without it coming apart :bertstare:

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/9ECB349A-B858-45FC-8A2F-F2F6109CED41-4404-000003A9787DCFAB_zps07eb8f63.jpg


these are the rods there are some worse than others.
the bearing 4 days later still has that friction smell.
the mains have some dirt grooves into them.
will be checking for out of round and tapered rods/mains
later today.
will also be running a thicker oil with zinc.
recommended by my machinist.
still shopping around for parts hoping to have everything mid next week.
def going to october meet.

[sweetbmxrider]

Looks burnished bro.

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/A9DE03AF-B29D-4513-8123-3692D72635C4-4404-000003A9727D2845_zps02879b39.jpg

[LTb1ow]

Hit em with a scotch brite pad, throw em back together.

[WSex]

Hit em with a scotch brite pad, throw em back together.


you sure? i have some 20 grit on the shelf make the whole engine shiny.

i know your joking though but can someone explain to me grooved bearings.
discuss pros and cons.... schooool me

[sweetbmxrider]

Metal

[WildBillyT]

will also be running a thicker oil with zinc.
recommended by my machinist.


Please elaborate.

[LTb1ow]

rottella straight 40, make that bitch rattle

[WSex]

Please elaborate.

with a bigger pump penzoil 25-50 racing for the year the car is the motor needs zinc he said synthetic is the worst thing you can do to it. so 25-50 penzoil w zinc or rotella 15-40 with zinc.
he swore on the penzoil he said if i find any other brand oil in his shop he'd chug it

[WSex]

key word with a higher out put pump**

[sweetbmxrider]

You doing a high flow or high pressure pump? Or both?

[WSex]

You doing a high flow or high pressure pump? Or both?

vaaaat!?! enlighten me

[WildBillyT]

with a bigger pump penzoil 25-50 racing for the year the car is the motor needs zinc he said synthetic is the worst thing you can do to it. so 25-50 penzoil w zinc or rotella 15-40 with zinc.
he swore on the penzoil he said if i find any other brand oil in his shop he'd chug it

All joking aside, Is he 90 years old?

This is all bad advice. It sounds like he builds/built a lot of flat tappet gen I stuff.

20w50 is too heavy. it is recommended when you need to take up slop in the build. It also requires more hp to push, and does not flow as quickly. You get a higher pressure at the gauge. Whoopeee, that doesn't mean you are protecting your engine better.

There is nothing wrong with synthetics. Some of our cars left the factory with it. Zero, zilch, nada. Some vettes in the 70s even left the factory with synthetics, with flat tappet cams and gen I engines.

And he can get to chugging. The only off the shelf oil at this time, 9/27/12, that has the "proper" ZDDP levels people look for is valvoline VR1. No Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head, Quaker State, etc off the shelf oil has it anymore. So if you want zinc, it ain't in Pennzoil. Rotella used to, but not anymore. It was confirmed right from Shell.

[WSex]

All joking aside, Is he 90 years old?

This is all bad advice. It sounds like he builds/built a lot of flat tappet gen I stuff.

20w50 is too heavy. it is recommended when you need to take up slop in the build. It also requires more hp to push, and does not flow as quickly. You get a higher pressure at the gauge. Whoopeee, that doesn't mean you are protecting your engine better.

There is nothing wrong with synthetics. Some of our cars left the factory with it. Zero, zilch, nada. Some vettes in the 70s even left the factory with synthetics, with flat tappet cams and gen I engines.

And he can get to chugging. The only off the shelf oil at this time, 9/27/12, that has the "proper" ZDDP levels people look for is valvoline VR1. No Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Pennzoil, Wolf's Head, Quaker State, etc off the shelf oil has it anymore. So if you want zinc, it ain't in Pennzoil. Rotella used to, but not anymore. It was confirmed right from Shell.

yeah his penzoil is still in boxes has seen some years.
hes owned a machine shop for over 40 years id assume he'd no more than me.
i do want to run a 1540 but didnt know sheep stopped putting in zinc

[Mike]

This is really going places

[The_Bishop]

Yes, and none of them good.

[L695speed]

Oy Vey, someone should really straighten out this whole thing before it all goes to hell. If metal got to your mains then it no doubt got to the cam. I have a ruined cam and crank to prove it. As for the oil, I have cans of oil going back at least 30 years, doesn't mean I'll dump it into any engines of mine just because it has additives or whatever else that is not around anymore. I just put any old conventional oil in the L98 and changed it twice in less than 500 miles on the bottom end rebuild. All good. But that is all I will say, someone else can do the lecture for newer engines, I haven't done any newer ones.

[WSex]

yeah it had seen some metal 50k miles ago when the ms3 broke the piston to valve clearance. it was at .022 and it caused a rocker to break into many pieces.
the motor was flushed the debris was removed thale cam was replaced.
regardless idk where the motor was for the first 97k miles of its life. who know how long those grooves in tge mains caused by the debris is.
i always ran 10w30 rotella in my car with a bosch oil filter. and have been finding minimal shavings on the plug fir quite sine time.
i find it quite impressive hiw long its lasted with the top end worked.
and especially when im a few rpms shy of 7k because when its up there i all in my mind is "any second and this bit** is going to f******* blow"


whats been on my mind is my oil pressure at idle
i never got a manual reading on it so who knows but my dash gauge tells me 40 which i always though it was high and 70 at redline
i fin it quite high and i think its too much pressure and no flow but i honestly have no clue so discuss.

[Mike]

yeah it had seen some metal 50k miles ago when the ms3 broke the piston to valve clearance. it was at .022 and it caused a rocker to break into many pieces.
the motor was flushed the debris was removed thale cam was replaced.
regardless idk where the motor was for the first 97k miles of its life. who know how long those grooves in tge mains caused by the debris is.
i always ran 10w30 rotella in my car with a bosch oil filter. and have been finding minimal shavings on the plug fir quite sine time.
i find it quite impressive hiw long its lasted with the top end worked.
and especially when im a few rpms shy of 7k because when its up there i all in my mind is "any second and this bit** is going to f******* blow"


whats been on my mind is my oil pressure at idle
i never got a manual reading on it so who knows but my dash gauge tells me 40 which i always though it was high and 70 at redline
i fin it quite high and i think its too much pressure and no flow but i honestly have no clue so discuss.


Wait. You had a rocker come apart in the engine and only swapped the cam?

[V]

i had a MS3 and no piston to valve clearance issues.

I assume when you said the rocker came apart, you mean it blew out the needle bearings. Ive seen people count up all the bearing pieces and be ok afterwards, but that's pushing it. I had my stock rockers rebuilt with trunion bearings when i put the cam in.

As for oil, after a new rebuild you should be fine running 5w30, 10w30, or 10w40. Just change oil often to begin with. Don't run old outdated oil.

At this point...
1. Yank the cam and have it checked out or send it back to Texas speed and have them check it.
2. Have the block sent out and cleaned, flushed and inspected
3. Replace ALL your bearings(cam/crank/rods),
4. Install new oil pump
5. Install GOOD aftermarket or rebuilt rocker arms(especially since you push it to 7k and stay with stock ratio)
6. Install ARP rod bolts.
7. Install dual spring valve springs for over .650" lift (you better have these already though)

....You do all that, run regular oil(don't bother with synthetic) and you'll be fine.

[WSex]

the ns3 had problems with the 215 heads because they were milled a little too much. i see no cam wear. as in the after market rocker i use to have it literally broke in 3 and managed its way to the pan. now i have stock rockers with avtrunion kit.
im not worried of the top end at all.
i just want to know what bearings to get.
grooved or non grooved the cam is good ill flush it regardless after 200 miles

someone on here has to know pros and cons of grooved bearings.

[V]

mains are 3/4 groove style
rods are chamfer

[WSex]

anyways getting into gaskets for the rebuild.
should i replace the metal ones or no.
and one more thing does anyone have the procedure to bolt up the pan and torque specs. or can this all be found on shop key?

[V]

http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?category=1

[WSex]

the headaches begin

[WSex]

dont worry everything is under control.
just waiting on the rain to go away to put it on the k member and rolling it under the car.

[WSex]

put it all together started her up and same noise.
like a rubbing screech.
removing the heads.
not going to lie was quite glad it was mosdiagnosed to a bearing.
i wouldnt of given that bottom end another 20kmiles.
i checked all the rods and mains for taper and out of round.
so now i know that bottom end is pristine.
i have some pretty low compression on cylinder 5.
pretty fun so far especially doing it with my old man.
will keep everyone updated.

[WildBillyT]

Is the trans connected?

[B4C]

Is the trans connected?

x2, throw out bearing?

[WSex]

not clutch related.
and its fairly new.
pulled the valve covers of and let it run getting no oil up a pushrod...
and starts to smoke lightly after awhile.

going to remove heads replace lifters(suggestions. ls7?)
and the valves. that were sligtly bent due to the ms3.
which we knowingly knew that #5 had low compression.

[WildBillyT]

Wait, you bent your valves due to improper PTV clearance and you kept running them?

[WSex]

Wait, you bent your valves due to improper PTV clearance and you kept running them?

it hit and blew the rocker into 3 pieces.
compression checked and had almost 70 pounds compared to the 110-120 on the others.
we ran it.
still put down 430(just a worked 215 trick flow head stock rockers with trunion and springs.stock fuel and ignition) 50k miles ago.

[BonzoHansen]

what is the rule of thumb on compression readings, no more than 10% variation? That is nearly 40%

[WildBillyT]

what is the rule of thumb on compression readings, no more than 10% variation? That is nearly 40%

5% is normal. 40% is wild. That's basically a dead cyl.

it hit and blew the rocker into 3 pieces.
compression checked and had almost 70 pounds compared to the 110-120 on the others.
we ran it.
still put down 430(just a worked 215 trick flow head stock rockers with trunion and springs.stock fuel and ignition) 50k miles ago.

I can only imagine what you would have gotten if everything was in order.

[MyFirstZ]

New parts don't mean anything fyi........ I've seen parts out of the box plenty of times

[The_Bishop]

If the valves hit the pistons, it's a sure bet they're bent.

[Featherburner]

Wait, you had the motor out of the car and didn't pull the heads?!?!

[BonzoHansen]

Wait, you had the motor out of the car and didn't pull the heads?!?!

can you get the valves out through the bottom?

[B4C]

:face palm: my valves hit my piston hard enough to bust a rocker but the valves are still good.....the fail is strong with this one. So you ran a motor with 7 cylinders for 50k no wonder your having motor issues.

[WildBillyT]

can you get the valves out through the bottom?

Yes.

[sweetbmxrider]

Slide hammer would do the trick, no?

[The_Bishop]

1" drive impact, too.

[WSex]

it wasnt a dead cylinder.
just a weak one.

remember i dont have money like most of you.
i could t afford to pull the heads and get new valve 50k miles ago.
i ran it. it ran well yes a noise started so ripped apart the bottom end (thinking it was that) and replaced bearings and slapped some arp studs on rods and mains and a few more things to freshen the motor up.
i wasnt intending on pulling the heads for this job.
but thats the only possible thing that can be the problem now.
and another reason i didnt pull them out of car and spent 300$ on lifters and valves was bc of the damn studs.
arp is fubekdndk expensive

[sweetbmxrider]

So instead of doing it right the first time, you wasted time and money fixing something that wasn't broken to only waste more time and money to correct the previously known issue? Sounds like you've got money to burn bro :lol:

[WSex]

So instead of doing it right the first time, you wasted time and money fixing something that wasn't broken to only waste more time and money to correct the previously known issue? Sounds like you've got money to burn bro :lol:

sorry i wish i knew you.
how about you comeover and ill start her up for you and maybe you can use your fairy powers and tell me what is exactly wrong, whats making the rubbing noise which valve on which piston or if its a bent push rod or maybe a lifter.

thanks for your answer though still made me 430 on 83% tps and a weak cylinder. got me 50kmiles and 28mpg.
took a risk came out well.
now i will do it right.:)

[WildBillyT]

So instead of doing it right the first time, you wasted time and money fixing something that wasn't broken to only waste more time and money to correct the previously known issue? Sounds like you've got money to burn bro :lol:

I wasn't going to say it, but this sums up my feelings.

Got no money, so you did a heads/cam/intake job and run the car very hard?

I dunno man....

[WSex]

as stated in a previous thread i bought the car withthe heads and ms3 running.
then the ptv broke and thats when i changed the cam.
this is irrelevant to this thread.
it was either pay to change valves leave the cam and let it happen again(yes i know i could of done many other things for clearance but at the time i didnt know anything)
so i got the cam.

anyways irrelevant.
so ill just fix it now.
end of story

[Mike]

Proper diagnosis would save money. Stop taking offense to good advice

[The_Bishop]

Piston to valve clearance cannot 'break.' It is not a part, it is a measured clearance.

[WSex]

So instead of doing it right the first time, you wasted time and money fixing something that wasn't broken to only waste more time and money to correct the previously known issue? Sounds like you've got money to burn bro :lol:

Piston to valve clearance cannot 'break.' It is not a part, it is a measured clearance.

no one said it was a part.
i had .022 ptv i "broke" into an unsafe distance of ptv.
stop taking the words so literral.
jumping on the bandwagon offending me.
i misdiagnosed it big deal. i said i didnt have the money at the time. im not trying to dump too much into this one as i prefer to build the iron block out of the escalade.

[rickyd13]

dont take offense to it bc they dont know many variables like how far you drive daily what grind your came has whats done to your heads and so on

[Mike]

dont take offense to it bc they dont know many variables like how far you drive daily what grind your came has whats done to your heads and so on

None of that has any relevance to pieces of the engine making contact when they shouldn't

[rickyd13]

lets se if your heads are milled down they will sit lower than of they are not causing your valves to be closer to your heads and more prone to contact so again unless you know the exact specs pf the work done you shouldnt make comments and agrivate someone who has enough problems ohh yeah amd like i pointed out the work done is relevant to the contact

[grazi]

:popcorn:This thread should become a sticky.

[sweetbmxrider]

sorry i wish i knew you.
how about you comeover and ill start her up for you and maybe you can use your fairy powers and tell me what is exactly wrong, whats making the rubbing noise which valve on which piston or if its a bent push rod or maybe a lifter.

thanks for your answer though still made me 430 on 83% tps and a weak cylinder. got me 50kmiles and 28mpg.
took a risk came out well.
now i will do it right.:)

What's it trap in the 1/4?

[Mike]

lets se if your heads are milled down they will sit lower than of they are not causing your valves to be closer to your heads and more prone to contact so again unless you know the exact specs pf the work done you shouldnt make comments and agrivate someone who has enough problems ohh yeah amd like i pointed out the work done is relevant to the contact

If you have the heads milled you change the parts associated to prevent contact. Milling the heads doesn't make contact ok.

When someone makes a thread and for 5 pages ignores the advice of experienced people and continues to blindly change parts it is aggrivating to everyone else

You were doing so well lately

[Mike]

:popcorn:This thread should become a sticky.

Or locked

[rickyd13]

and as he said he didnt have money at the time some parts may have been over looked

[The_Bishop]

Blindly dicking with things is a good way to *waste* money.

[Mike]

and as he said he didnt have money at the time some parts may have been over looked

Just stop. You are explaining exactly how not to do things on a budget

[rickyd13]

and isn't that what hapend though

[WSex]

never tracked.

and i did take advice took the advice that doing an in car bearing job was stupid and hard and a waste of time. ive taken plenty advice.
im glad i did that bottom end what a great bad call.

[WSex]

who cares geez everyones mpre worried about the money than i am.
key word.. at the time i had no money to get that fixed.
i overlooked it and made 50k miles to school and back
now im fixing it.
started off as a bottom end bearing job and now removing the heads in car.
go back some pages look at those rod bearings i thought i was golden and found the problem.
so argue on how stupid i am for not removing the heads while it was out. the top end lasted me so long so i overlooked it again big deal ill chamge some valves and lifters slap the heads back on call it a day.

[deadtrend1]

Good lick to you. Hope you get it all straightened out ..

[WSex]

Good lick to you. Hope you get it all straightened out ..

thank you

[NJ Torque]

Holy ****...

[WSex]

oops ripped a wire

what sensor is this
if it is a sensor bc its only a 1 wire

[LTb1ow]

oops ripped a wire

what sensor is this
if it is a sensor bc its only a 1 wire

Coolant, or alt exciter lead?

[WSex]

or knock senso?http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/F9641080-94D0-4CC7-A0BC-96C713C50606-8204-00000743550B877A_zpsa01e6c24.jpg

[WSex]

sprry forgot to post pic

[LTb1ow]

knock sensor, enjoy

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/AA8BFE01-CD32-4F1B-835C-D1F54CEC8E27-8831-000007826A208AE5_zpsac14d04a.jpg


thats cyl 5's chamber on the left
#1 3 7 are all the same

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/B2058BD5-BC75-401A-B19E-C85127E003A2-2364-0000024D0AA423A4_zps2cf4b9f5.jpg

reinforced y pipe for lowered f bodies:)
especially since mine was all cracked.

[Blackbirdws6]

Well that's different. Btw when you take pics, is your camera on the phone always smudged?

[WSex]

yeah my iphone. the camera lens is all scratched up along with the rest of the phone.

and different how o_O?

[V]

I'm fairly sure he meant different as in not the proper or pretty way...

[Mike]

Cool way to make an inferior part work for you.

[WSex]

it doesnt need to be pretty
i wouldnt recommend it on his ta that thing is cleaner than showroom.
didnt mean that in any harsh way.

[The_Bishop]

Based on what I saw in the pic of the head, I'll bet you have a bunch of bent valves.

[WildBillyT]

yeah my iphone. the camera lens is all scratched up along with the rest of the phone.

and different how o_O?

Different in that y pipe skid plates are a rarity. But on NJ roads, :shock:

[WSex]

itll blend in with little to no driving time.

[WSex]

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/wsex/E7B9D7C8-713F-43D7-9A12-49ACC3018874-2408-000002411D34A9E4_zps98dd24a6.jpg

what sensor plug is this and i cant find the sensor itself i fail

[WSex]

and im not getting any oil pressure now. i had it after the bottom end rebuild
then after i removed the heads i didnt.

[WildBillyT]

Can you explain further?

[V]

did u break the sensor on the back of the block?

[WSex]

yeah i broke the oil pressure sending unit.
car runs great otherwise the noise is gone
just getting no reading of oil pressure and water temp

[WildBillyT]

and im not getting any oil pressure now. i had it after the bottom end rebuild
then after i removed the heads i didnt.

yeah i broke the oil pressure sending unit.
car runs great otherwise the noise is gone
just getting no reading of oil pressure and water temp


Ambiguous posts are ambiguous.

I thought you were actually getting no pressure in the engine, not a lack of a pressure reading. Check the sender and its connection. Chances are that's broken.