2014 Z28

[maroman88]

dam it looks sexy, 500hp LS7, optional AC, no radio, no trunk insulation/carpet, lighter glass, black rims and ground effects/spoiler

[sweetbmxrider]

Its everything NJFBOA wants in a camaro, yet no one will buy it /gmbot :lol:

[LTb1ow]

Its everything NJFBOA wants in a camaro, yet no one will buy it /gmbot :lol:

I would buy it to prove Al wrong, but no diesel, no care.

[WildBillyT]

Looks fantastic aside from the taillights. Where have I heard that before...

But it's not nearly as bad as the C7. I am just being a picky bitch.

There are a lot of people bitching about the looks but I really think they did a good job with the Camaro.

[PolarBear]

"It will have at least 500 hp."


:rofl:
Just struck me as funny

[BullittSVT]

For those of you still lost, heres the post
http://jalopnik.com/the-camaro-z-28-is-back-461112191

I really like the tail lights doe.

Will this cut into the ZL1s market share? If it's faster around a track, why buy a ZL1?


Does this mean that the upcoming Z06 Will take the 600hp bench mark and get the ZR1 to 700+?

[maroman88]

i think its sexy as hell... tint the tails and this cars done

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ismnm3y8x67jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

[Jersey Mike]

For those of you still lost, heres the post
http://jalopnik.com/the-camaro-z-28-is-back-461112191

I really like the tail lights doe.

Will this cut into the ZL1s market share? If it's faster around a track, why buy a ZL1?


Does this mean that the upcoming Z06 Will take the 600hp bench mark and get the ZR1 to 700+?

Street car. Race car. We'll continue to play with that definition over the next couple years before the internet changes its mind.

[Jersey Mike]

On another note, this is going to look menacing in black.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ismlf6pz6r8jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

[WildBillyT]

i think its sexy as hell... tint the tails and this cars done

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ismnm3y8x67jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

Looks much better in white. I saw a shot in red and it wasn't as good.

[Mike]

Soo. Late 90s integra taillights. Looks like the back of a Honda prelude

[Jersey Mike]

Hate the LEDs!

http://img.netcarshow.com/Chevrolet-Camaro_SS_2014_1600x1200_wallpaper_05.jpg
http://img.netcarshow.com/Chevrolet-Camaro_SS_2014_1600x1200_wallpaper_03.jpg


Granted, the above is the SS not the Z/28, but still. Looks like they're the same?

http://img.netcarshow.com/Chevrolet-Camaro_Z28_2014_1600x1200_wallpaper_04.jpg

Love the tips on the Z :nod:


More pictures:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285368

[WildBillyT]

Soo. Late 90s integra taillights. Looks like the back of a Honda prelude

Prelude is what I thought when I saw it in red.

[PolarBear]

Will this cut into the ZL1s market share? If it's faster around a track, why buy a ZL1?

I think it will. Pricing should be ~$12,000 less based on the retail cost of the LS7 versus the LSA, but there isnt enough room in the pricing for that. So it is going to have to be a little cheaper than the ZL1, but it will have ~80 less horse but less weight so... :shrug:

[PolarBear]

To me the tail lights are reminiscent of the 74-77

[townsend]

i like it, i wish i had a good job and credit, id be ordering one as soon as i could. that is the best looking 5th gen, doesnt look as fat girl-ish, actually looks mean now

[BonzoHansen]

https://theblock.com/news/breaking-news-announcing-return-camaro-z-28?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=chevrolet%2Bperformance

I call dibs on the seats

[WildBillyT]

i like it, i wish i had a good job and credit, id be ordering one as soon as i could. that is the best looking 5th gen, doesnt look as fat girl-ish, actually looks mean now

Well, remember, fat bottomed girls make the rockin world go round.

[BonzoHansen]

Are you suggesting we get on our bikes and ride?

[Dudbird113]

Tail lights look alright. That 500hp boat still isn't gonna go that fast

[BonzoHansen]

Tail lights look alright. That 500hp boat still isn't gonna go that fastit's a track car - reading the specs it will smoke any earlier gen on an open track.

Extensive lightweighting saved 300 pounds over the Camaro ZL1
if its 300 lbs lighter that is getting to 4th gen weight, no?

this matters big time. less unsprung is very nice
The Camaro Z/28 features 19-inch diameter wheels and tires, which reduce unsprung weight by 42 pounds (19 kilograms) per car compared to the 20-inch wheels standard on Camaro SS and ZL1.

sorry kids, this sounds like the stripper you've all wanted. save your pennies.

[NastyEllEssWon]

looks like a great car, except for its looks :( ironic isnt it

[Jersey Mike]

looks like a great car, except for its looks :( ironic isnt it
It looks like a Camaro should in this era.

[Blackbirdws6]

Car looks really good in person. The Recaro seats have aggressive bolstering but are very comfortable IMO.

[Paul Huryk]

So Chevy created a low production, high demand car that will be selling for well over sticker at every dealer who gets them... Guess that counts me out.

Not saying that the 500hp LS7 won't be fast in a 3800lb brick, but they could have put a 475hp version of the LS3 with all those goodies in the car (with another 200lb reduction in mass), charge less for it and probably be faster on the track.

I see it as a limited edition car made for track use, but will be more of a collectable.

Call me crazy.

[Jersey Mike]

I don't think you're crazy. I'm sure the purpose of this car is bi-fold, a limited edition car and an answer to the Boss LS. Just speculating, but I would imagine the reason they went with the LS7 over the LS3 had more to do with the those two reasons than price gouging--A 427ci 7.0L sounds better to the ear (and on paper) than a 402ci 6.2L. :2cents:

[Tru2Chevy]

Not to mention that they already have the LS7s being made, as opposed to modding an LS3 further to get the desired power levels they were looking for.

- Justin

[Mike]

Dry sump for race cars

[coolmanvette75]

I love the way the car looks. Not crazy about the new styling (mainly the hood) on the SS cars but it all fits great on the Z28. My dad was there for the release today and was able to snag a second row seat. He said the car looks great in person and is very comfortable to sit in for being so "stripped down."

Full album here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.364282677020023.1073741828.244940835620875&type=3

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/299236_364282717020019_511682870_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/482316_364282763686681_1669925817_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/306065_364282990353325_500049485_n.jpg


On a GM related side note, my dad sat next to Tadge Juechter, the chief design engineer for Corvette, at the release. They were talking about the C7 and my dad being himself, tried to get as much unknown info out of him as he could. Tadge pretty much kept quiet but hinted at something pretty interesting. My dad said to him, since all of the names from the old days are coming back, is there a chance that we might see an "L88" Corvette in the future? Tadge didn't answer the question, but looked at him and smiled ear to ear.

Now he didn't say yes, but a response like that makes me think that that name might be making a return in the not so distant future. Just something to think about...

[PolarBear]

Is the headlight bar area more narrow than the previous years?

[Mike]

Is the headlight bar area more narrow than the previous years?

Yeah it has that new body line narrowing it down

[NHRABill]

What No T-tops :(
Its a nice car, I like most changes but the chin spoiler has gots to go...

the rest is all blah blah blah to me anyone with a wad of cash can go buy performance these days I miss the days of old when you had to earn it by working on your own car.

[madness410]

anyone know the price tag on it?

[NastyEllEssWon]

anyone know the price tag on it?

probably MSRP around like 45 with dealers marking them up to 50-55k


i did notice that headlight bar was trimmer im gonna play around with this in photo shop but good god mike and billy called it on the head...whats up with the honda tails.



edit: just read on GMI that this car is gonna be the top of the line camaro? but with the zl1 being around 60k, theres no way i can see anyone buying a camaro for more than that. if someones gonna spend 60k on a gm car with ugly tails then you might as well go with a base vette :D

[Featherburner]

I like it. I think the tail lights look great. They harken back to 69 tail lights. Not bad, not bad at all.

[Z28 Heritage]

I like it but wish it was more like the 92 or older Z's and the taillights are ugly But overall A-.

[BonzoHansen]

Soo. Late 90s integra taillights. Looks like the back of a Honda prelude

To me the tail lights are reminiscent of the 74-77

I like it. I think the tail lights look great. They harken back to 69 tail lights. Not bad, not bad at all.

this amuses me. but now that I look I understand the prelude and 69 comments. not the 74-77, and bear is not the only person to mention that online.

in any event 2014>2010-2013 tail. now go fix the new malibu taillights

2014 Z28
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ismnm3y8x67jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

2001 prelude:
http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/attachments/f30/8814d1166392039-2001-honda-prelude-4-sale-im000083_edited-1.jpg

74-77 Camaro
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3567181122_edb36425c0.jpg

69 Camaro
http://barristv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/1969-Camaro-Z28_rear.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

Def better than 5th gen tail lights. The leds will look sick like the chrysler tails.

[Mike]

The whole ass looks prelude. The trunk dipping below the lights. The lights themselves are Acura integra

http://image.importtuner.com/f/features/impp_1112_2001_acura_integra_type_r/38729055++w750+ar1/impp-1112-02-o+2001-acura-integra-type-r+rear.jpg

[Featherburner]

I'm liking it more and more!



http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/z28-1_zps2f78fe51.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/22-2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-new-york_zps63d5455a.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/08-2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-new-york_zpscb5ada86.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/2014-chevy-camaro-ss-004_zps38ca0803.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/2014-chevy-camaro-ss-003_zps8ec0eeed.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/2014-chevy-camaro-ss-006_zps5775aef0.jpg

[PolarBear]

74-77 Camaro
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3567181122_edb36425c0.jpg


OK, now that I look at it again, I take it back, definitely not 74-77

The whole ass looks prelude. The trunk dipping below the lights. The lights themselves are Acura integra

http://image.importtuner.com/f/features/impp_1112_2001_acura_integra_type_r/38729055++w750+ar1/impp-1112-02-o+2001-acura-integra-type-r+rear.jpg




Definitely not integra, much less the whole rear end.


69 Camaro
http://barristv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/1969-Camaro-Z28_rear.jpg


OK, I see for sure now the wraparound threw me a little. If they were taller on the new one I would say 3rd gen :rofl:

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://gyazo.com/6c0ae0fff7a2b4b5419a0151af252466.png




I like it better if you get rid of the chevy sign and black out in between. flows and separates the back end more

[WayFast84]

Its everything NJFBOA wants in a camaro, yet no one will buy it /gmbot :lol::nod:QFT

I'd buy one if I had the cheddar. I wish it was completely redesigned and smaller but my main concern with the camarao was how heavy the pig was.

[Jersey Mike]

I see a Challenger:
http://gyazo.com/6c0ae0fff7a2b4b5419a0151af252466.png
I like it better if you get rid of the chevy sign and black out in between. flows and separates the back end more

[coolmanvette75]

Man that spoiler on the Z28 really looks similar to the one on my old G6 GXP...

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/11/web/3107000-3107999/3107055_8_full.jpg

[BurninrubberGT]

I really don't get the hood, it looks like crap

minus that the z/28 looks good

[Jersey Mike]

I really don't get the hood, it looks like crap

minus that the z/28 looks good

Wonder how long before someone cuts the window open and sticks a maggie through there :lol:

[Blacdout96]

I'm kind of disappointed honestly. ZL1 should of gotten the 427, z28 should of gotten an aluminum-based 4.8 enlarged to 5.0. Tooling is already there for a cast iron 4.8. Other then that, I can dig the rest of it with the A/C delete,optional radio.....yet should of been for the 1LE.....

To me, they're entangling all the trademark notes from models into one another.

[BigAls87Z28]

I love the way the car looks. Not crazy about the new styling (mainly the hood) on the SS cars but it all fits great on the Z28. My dad was there for the release today and was able to snag a second row seat. He said the car looks great in person and is very comfortable to sit in for being so "stripped down."


On a GM related side note, my dad sat next to Tadge Juechter, the chief design engineer for Corvette, at the release. They were talking about the C7 and my dad being himself, tried to get as much unknown info out of him as he could. Tadge pretty much kept quiet but hinted at something pretty interesting. My dad said to him, since all of the names from the old days are coming back, is there a chance that we might see an "L88" Corvette in the future? Tadge didn't answer the question, but looked at him and smiled ear to ear.

Now he didn't say yes, but a response like that makes me think that that name might be making a return in the not so distant future. Just something to think about...

There is no L88 coming, but there will be a 600 and a 700+ hp engine for C7; LT4 and LT5. Tadge is a good dude, very cool guy to talk to, and he loves enthusiasts.

Is the headlight bar area more narrow than the previous years?

2014 gets an update front and rear. Smaller upper grill, much larger lower grill. It's a bottom breather like the C7. This helps with the aero, and the vents in the hood release the pressure to keep the nose down.

anyone know the price tag on it?

60k-70k. Z06 will move up to 80ish. Z/28 is the top level car.

probably MSRP around like 45 with dealers marking them up to 50-55k


i did notice that headlight bar was trimmer im gonna play around with this in photo shop but good god mike and billy called it on the head...whats up with the honda tails.

edit: just read on GMI that this car is gonna be the top of the line camaro? but with the zl1 being around 60k, theres no way i can see anyone buying a camaro for more than that. if someones gonna spend 60k on a gm car with ugly tails then you might as well go with a base vette :D

People are buying 65k ZL1s. A C7 Z51 will top out right along side this.
YOU wouldn't buy it, but YOU wouldn't buy any car.

I really don't get the hood, it looks like crap

minus that the z/28 looks good

Hood design is based off the ZL1's aero studies. It's functional. I wish it was larger. It looks too small for such a large hood.

ZL1 is a Grand Touring car, complete with adaptive suspension, lots of nice standard features, etc etc. Z/28 is a dedicated track car.

Could GM have just done a lighter SS? Sure. Could they have just done a slightly tuned up 1LE? Yeah.

This is the car that everyone said that GM would never make. A stripped down, light weight, big cube, manual trans only, optional AC. no fancy radio stuff, manual race seats, with carbon ceramic brakes, spec-suspension and race tires.

It's six seconds faster around GM's Milford Proving Grounds than the Mustang GT500.

[Mike]

I'm kind of disappointed honestly. ZL1 should of gotten the 427, z28 should of gotten an aluminum-based 4.8 enlarged to 5.0. Tooling is already there for a cast iron 4.8. Other then that, I can dig the rest of it with the A/C delete,optional radio.....yet should of been for the 1LE.....

To me, they're entangling all the trademark notes from models into one another.

Ls is dying. They won't make a new motor for a single trim level of a single model

[sweetbmxrider]

I like it better if you get rid of the chevy sign

A recurring theme with you :lol:

[BigAls87Z28]

Ls is dying. They won't make a new motor for a single trim level of a single model

Exactly.
The plant that makes the LS7, LS9, and the few hand-built LS3s is being shut down and the people are going to move to Bowling Green.
Since C7 will get none of the Gen IV engines, and there is probably a handful of engines still to be built, this makes a great engine to get the job done.

[Blacdout96]

Ls is dying. They won't make a new motor for a single trim level of a single model

Says the Corvette ZO6 up until yesterday......

The LS doesn't appear to be fazed out soon for the trucks, so the tooling is there, but one can dream of a proper retro car, and what it's original intents, and specs are used again to hat tip at the original.

[BigAls87Z28]

Says the Corvette ZO6 up until yesterday......

The LS doesn't appear to be fazed out soon for the trucks, so the tooling is there, but one can dream of a proper retro car, and what it's original intents, and specs are used again to hat tip at the original.

Trucks are all new, and will start rolling out with Gen V engines.
By the end of this year, the only cars that will have Gen IV engines will be Camaro and SS Sedan.

[Mike]

Says the Corvette ZO6 up until yesterday......

The LS doesn't appear to be fazed out soon for the trucks, so the tooling is there, but one can dream of a proper retro car, and what it's original intents, and specs are used again to hat tip at the original.

yeah... that was multiple years ago, read the first three words of my post before you attempt to chump me off

[Blacdout96]

Chump you off? testy testy there Mike, chill out, maybe have some tea to calm those nerves? I understand the LS is dying, and so is the buying public for these things. We have a ZL1 sitting in our showroom, no one has attempted to make a move on it (sticker is 57K......not bad for what you get) so with prices creeping up next to a Corvette ( Taking dealer mark up into account) Do they think this will create wallets to open back up for this car?
Also, the belt line is still a little too high, so I hope they did something to allow you to see out the windows on this new model.

[NastyEllEssWon]

A recurring theme with you :lol:



i liked the days when they found ways to make the chevy sign look cool instead of tossing a giant golden rent a car badge on it :D

[BigAls87Z28]

Chump you off? testy testy there Mike, chill out, maybe have some tea to calm those nerves? I understand the LS is dying, and so is the buying public for these things. We have a ZL1 sitting in our showroom, no one has attempted to make a move on it (sticker is 57K......not bad for what you get) so with prices creeping up next to a Corvette ( Taking dealer mark up into account) Do they think this will create wallets to open back up for this car?
Also, the belt line is still a little too high, so I hope they did something to allow you to see out the windows on this new model.

This is not a new model. This is the same car with a refreshed face.
High belt lines are here to stay, get over it.

[Slow-V6]

This new design looks really good. I might be in the market for a new Camaro soon. Cant wait to see it this weekend.

[LTb1ow]

There is no L88 coming, but there will be a 600 and a 700+ hp engine for C7; LT4 and LT5. Tadge is a good dude, very cool guy to talk to, and he loves enthusiasts.



2014 gets an update front and rear. Smaller upper grill, much larger lower grill. It's a bottom breather like the C7. This helps with the aero, and the vents in the hood release the pressure to keep the nose down.



60k-70k. Z06 will move up to 80ish. Z/28 is the top level car.



People are buying 65k ZL1s. A C7 Z51 will top out right along side this.
YOU wouldn't buy it, but YOU wouldn't buy any car.



Hood design is based off the ZL1's aero studies. It's functional. I wish it was larger. It looks too small for such a large hood.

ZL1 is a Grand Touring car, complete with adaptive suspension, lots of nice standard features, etc etc. Z/28 is a dedicated track car.

Could GM have just done a lighter SS? Sure. Could they have just done a slightly tuned up 1LE? Yeah.

This is the car that everyone said that GM would never make. A stripped down, light weight, big cube, manual trans only, optional AC. no fancy radio stuff, manual race seats, with carbon ceramic brakes, spec-suspension and race tires.

It's six seconds faster around GM's Milford Proving Grounds than the Mustang GT500.

Wait, so they make a not so fat ass 5th gen that is more gutted than a LS1 race car and, then charge more for it?

I applaud GM for the F you attitude, but, really?

[sweetbmxrider]

Probably over 5 g's in seats there.

[DaSkinnyGuy]

I love everything about it all positive feedback from me.

*Front end looks more aerodynamic
*Exhaust is going to sound great, LS7 with dual mode mufflers. Can not wait to hear it with long tube headers and no cats through those dual mode mufflers.
*Rear end was nicely changed
*1.05G ( I wonder how much suspension change it takes a 3425lb 4th gen to do that )
*If I had the money I would buy it.

[BonzoHansen]

Wait, so they make a not so fat ass 5th gen that is more gutted than a LS1 race car and, then charge more for it?

I applaud GM for the F you attitude, but, really?

special z28 only parts don't lower costs

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/03/03-2014-chevrolet-camaro-ny.jpg

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=12890&pictureid=100626

After seeing more pictures of this in different angles i gotta say that ss front end looks pretty nice from there but god that back end is still terrible :(

[LTb1ow]

special z28 only parts don't lower costs

Thats fine and all, but lets assume I am a non car tech savvy person.

Why would I want a non optioned car that costs more than a higher optioned car?

Seems like a "true" car enthusiast is not gonna drop 80k on this, cause well, thats a ton of money. :rofl:

[BonzoHansen]

^^ that person isn't buying this single speaker car. It's not an intended to be an econobox.

You know they don't intend to sell many of these or zl1s, right?

And as cafe standards grow they will want to sell even less. So make the same money off 500 as they would 5000 is better for them

[WildBillyT]

Thats fine and all, but lets assume I am a non car tech savvy person.

Why would I want a non optioned car that costs more than a higher optioned car?

Seems like a "true" car enthusiast is not gonna drop 80k on this, cause well, thats a ton of money. :rofl:

If you are not car tech savvy then you probably would not care.

IIRC the Viper ACR was the same way and it sold just fine.

[Blackbirdws6]

While I'm surprised the car will be more money than the ZL1, I assume they are simply trying to make back their development costs. They likely needed to do further crash, emissions and other testing on top of the costs of parts especially those fancy brakes.

I can appreciate the performance bump over the ZL1 but personally I value more features versus a stripped down street legal track car. If I was a track nut, then this would be the car for me. The ZL1 will have the power/amenities but the track nut will simply value the Z/28 performance cred more.

I like the Z/28 a lot and while it's not the car for me, I can respect it's intent.

[Jersey Mike]

I can't wait to see one at a local show, with painters tape, numbers, and HooHoos on all 4s. Drool and props will be everywhere.

[LTb1ow]

I can't wait to see one at a local show, with painters tape, numbers, and HooHoos on all 4s. Drool and props will be everywhere.

Yea and then it will get rolled back into a trailer. Never raced or driven.

Waste.

[Jersey Mike]

Yea and then it will get rolled back into a trailer. Never raced or driven.

Waste.

You cray. I'd like to believe the blue painters tape and Hoosiers had some time; Hence the props and drool.

[PolarBear]

60k-70k. Z06 will move up to 80ish. Z/28 is the top level car.

Wait, its got less stuff, less weight, optional delete items, an engine that costs less, less horsepower that the ZL1, but will be within 5k or OVER the price of a ZL1? That right there is what is wrong with GM. That car should be within 10k of a fully optioned base model V6. The ZL1 starts at ~$57,000, the Z28 should be $5,000 less than that WTF is wrong with these idiots

[PolarBear]

special z28 only parts don't lower costs

I didnt realize there was another page in this discussion when I posted.

What special Z parts? Some badges and some seats? There is absolutely no way this car should cost more than a ZL1

[Jersey Mike]

Wait, its got less stuff, less weight, optional delete items, an engine that costs less, less horsepower that the ZL1, but will be within 5k or OVER the price of a ZL1? That right there is what is wrong with GM. That car should be within 10k of a fully optioned base model V6. The ZL1 starts at ~$57,000, the Z28 should be $5,000 less than that WTF is wrong with these idiots

I don't know what the production numbers are going to be on the Z/28 versus the ZL1, but perhaps the limited edition "cool factor" is coming into play?

Perhaps a silly question, but how would this car do on a road course compared to a C7?


Realistically, I can't see a normal person purchasing these new--and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure we'll see very, very few of these on the street, and more so in collections or HPDE days for the big-wigs. Status and image. That's what I chalk this up to--and I approve of that.
I think GM is doing image remodeling, and offering up some exclusivity helps that. No longer the mullet-mobile of your trailer park, but a piece of a rich guy's stable that he takes pride in, and the average guy recognizes as rich in both value and legacy. Those people aren't going to mind an extra 5-10k
on the price tag. They just want to own something rare and awesome.



The used market will, of course, be different.

[PolarBear]

I'm sure we'll see very, very few of these on the street,

I don't think it will be that rare, unless they plan a limited release. I have seen several ZL1's on the street already and I would imagine the Z28 will be a greater number release than that

[Mike]

They can sell zl1's to lots of midlife crisis guys who loved f bodies as kids but got away from them and now want a new one

They can only sell these to enthusiasts and the odd collector. So I doubt they will make more

[sweetbmxrider]

You really think its a stripped down ss with fancy seats?

[BigAls87Z28]

I didnt realize there was another page in this discussion when I posted.

What special Z parts? Some badges and some seats? There is absolutely no way this car should cost more than a ZL1

Clearly you didn't read any of the links.
LS7 costs more to make than the LSA. The carbon ceramic brakes cost ten grand more. The light weight glass costs more. The special front splitter, and other Z28 specific body parts cost more. The Z28 spec suspension, wheels, R- Compound tires, and standard Recaros cost more.
Add in additional cost of deleting things, and you have a price tag of 60k+
This is not a badge job.

[PolarBear]

Clearly you didn't read any of the links.

I did not read the links, whoops. Aint no one got time for dat.

I didnt realize it had carbon ceramic brakes.

LS7 costs more to make than the LSA.

I did not read the links, whoops. I didnt realize it had carbon ceramic brakes.

I was mixing up the LSA with the LS9, I thought the prices were about 12k off, but the retail on the LSA is about the same as the LS7

[1QWIKBIRD]

That is the car I envision (or as close as I could hope for in today's hyper litigious world) when I think Z28. I'm not a huge 5th gen fan at all, but the car looks lower, thinner vertically (does that even make sense) and wider. GM finally grew a set and took stuff out to make it lighter, versus adding worthless crap then overcompensating with power, bigger wheels etc. and forcing convenience packages down your throat when performance packages are added.

Finally they go it right.....

I'd put money down tonight if the sticker was low to mid 40's, but apparently that's no where near where the price point will be.......Oh well, guess I gotta finish the junk in my garage.......

[BigAls87Z28]

You would like the 1LE.

[Blacdout96]

If it was worthy of using the rpo 1le that is.

[coolmanvette75]

If it was worthy of using the rpo 1le that is.

This. I think the Z28 is more of a "1LE" by design honestly...

[Jersey Mike]

Wonder how long before someone cuts the window open and sticks a maggie through there :lol:

Well, that didn't take long

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w170/bmdeluca/Events/NYIAS%202013/IMG_2866_zps9c319c1b.jpg

[Mike]

Nice wheels

[WildBillyT]

It's a car that fills a niche that consumers were asking for. How many times has the "less weight" or "less crap" drum been beaten?

The original first gen Z/28s that everybody lusts over are inferior to first gen SS cars in every way on the street. On a road course that's different. It seems the same way here, maybe with the exception of power.

[Blacdout96]

I can agree with that WBT, but it's not the fact that weight is the issue, it's the designation of the rpo's and what they represented to the Camaro heritage that I have a problem with. We talk about bringing the Corvette into the mid engine rear wheel drive era, but to please the Corvette enthusiests, that may well never happen, the Corvette heritage must remain as a FR design. The ZR-1 is still the top banana Corvette, the ZO6 is still the track ready beast to take on the corners (just like the 60's and 90's ZO6). The Grand Sports name got tarnished with the 1996 model, yet from the 96 and today's GS, they have stuck with the track style ready car, without having a crazy engine in it, so to me, they have stuck to what the RPO and edition traditions to the Corvette, but the Camaro has had more Hodge podge spinoffs then I care to hear about. This is what the Camaro editions should of had, and what RPO and designations they should of been.

-SS - stay as is, allows for entry level V8 customers looking to drive to the local wawa to buy milk. Ment to compete agaisnt 5.0 Mustang

-1LE - new small displacement LT engine with Z28 & ZL1 suspension, optional or deleted items such as A/C and radio, Recaro seats, mainly track oriented, suited for Boss 302 Mustang L.S. edition. Comes only standard transmission.

-Z28 - more of a road and buyer friendly styled 1LE based, most, if not all options standard, less customer checks off not what they want. Both standard and auto trans available. Suspension stays as what it was unveiled with. Small displacement engine, same as in 1LE. Made to compete against Boss 302 Mustang.

-ZLI - Road friendly, but track ready after a few tweaks car. Current ZL1 tires and rims, suspension less road racing oriented, standard and auto trans available, and most important, 7.0 litre engine.Made to compete against Shelby GT500/Rush/Saleen.

- COPO - more track oriented ZLI. Just like 1le, standard items are optional, or removed, and comes with LSA engine. Made to compete against Ford Cobra Jet program.

It's just my opinion on what the order and options should of been, and I feel as an enthusiest, is the correct build and RPO designation for those models.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I can agree with that WBT, but it's not the fact that weight is the issue, it's the designation of the rpo's and what they represented to the Camaro heritage that I have a problem with. We talk about bringing the Corvette into the mid engine rear wheel drive era, but to please the Corvette enthusiests, that may well never happen, the Corvette heritage must remain as a FR design. The ZR-1 is still the top banana Corvette, the ZO6 is still the track ready beast to take on the corners (just like the 60's and 90's ZO6). The Grand Sports name got tarnished with the 1996 model, yet from the 96 and today's GS, they have stuck with the track style ready car, without having a crazy engine in it, so to me, they have stuck to what the RPO and edition traditions to the Corvette, but the Camaro has had more Hodge podge spinoffs then I care to hear about. This is what the Camaro editions should of had, and what RPO and designations they should of been.

-SS - stay as is, allows for entry level V8 customers looking to drive to the local wawa to buy milk. Ment to compete agaisnt 5.0 Mustang

-1LE - new small displacement LT engine with Z28 & ZL1 suspension, optional or deleted items such as A/C and radio, Recaro seats, mainly track oriented, suited for Boss 302 Mustang L.S. edition. Comes only standard transmission.

-Z28 - more of a road and buyer friendly styled 1LE based, most, if not all options standard, less customer checks off not what they want. Both standard and auto trans available. Suspension stays as what it was unveiled with. Small displacement engine, same as in 1LE. Made to compete against Boss 302 Mustang.

-ZLI - Road friendly, but track ready after a few tweaks car. Current ZL1 tires and rims, suspension less road racing oriented, standard and auto trans available, and most important, 7.0 litre engine.Made to compete against Shelby GT500/Rush/Saleen.

- COPO - more track oriented ZLI. Just like 1le, standard items are optional, or removed, and comes with LSA engine. Made to compete against Ford Cobra Jet program.

It's just my opinion on what the order and options should of been, and I feel as an enthusiest, is the correct build and RPO designation for those models.




im just gonna wait over here >>>
im sure someone will be here shortly to discuss with you everything thats wrong with what you just said. I havent the time.

[BigAls87Z28]

-SS - stay as is, allows for entry level V8 customers looking to drive to the local wawa to buy milk. Ment to compete agaisnt 5.0 Mustang

Alright

-1LE - new small displacement LT engine with Z28 & ZL1 suspension, optional or deleted items such as A/C and radio, Recaro seats, mainly track oriented, suited for Boss 302 Mustang L.S. edition. Comes only standard transmission.

Why small displacement? 1LE was a suspension and brake package for the two most powerful versions of the Z28 for third gens, and a suspension upgrade for the 4th gen.
1LE would be akin to the Boss 302 LS, not the regular Boss.

-Z28 - more of a road and buyer friendly styled 1LE based, most, if not all options standard, less customer checks off not what they want. Both standard and auto trans available. Suspension stays as what it was unveiled with. Small displacement engine, same as in 1LE. Made to compete against Boss 302 Mustang.

Eh, Z28 has changed throughout the years. If we are to compare all Z28's to the first gen, then the Z died in 1969.
A higher output LS3 would be cool, but a lighter weight, hand built, 7k RPM, dry-sumped LS7 works too.
No auto trans.

-ZLI - Road friendly, but track ready after a few tweaks car. Current ZL1 tires and rims, suspension less road racing oriented, standard and auto trans available, and most important, 7.0 litre engine.Made to compete against Shelby GT500/Rush/Saleen.

Going to need more than 7 liters to keep up with 660-700hp.

- COPO - more track oriented ZLI. Just like 1le, standard items are optional, or removed, and comes with LSA engine. Made to compete against Ford Cobra Jet program.

COPO car is exactly that. It's a straight up and down race car.

I can overlook the fact that the Z has the LS7, because the LS7 is above and beyond the greatest of the Gen III/IV engines.
The rest of the car is pure insanity.

[jam01]

this is funny how some hate on the camaro, i personally did not like the third gen when they first came out, they grew on me and i have owned several. gm offered more packages as the years went by, not all good but at least they were there. they were never that quick or had much hp you just had to know how to improve upon what you had. when the 4th gen came out i almost bought one the first year, but i am glad i waited and have a 02. now we have 10ss and we like it, its fun to drive has power and handles well on the street. now i still remember people bitching about not having enough options available throughout the years and i guess that will never end. why cant people be happy that these are available, the 6 cyl is 312 hp the standard ss is 426. if price is a problem, that's why imports are for sale in this country.

[12secondv6]

I think it is a hot car!

[greenformula92]

:drool:

[PolarBear]

I just read this and I thought I put in perspective to people that think they can "build it cheaper"

GMHTP (http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/hotnews/1401_2014_chevrolet_camaro_z28_pricing_announced/)

[LTb1ow]

$75k?

How many will actually be used for what that price tag gets you?

[WildBillyT]

Four.

[Slow-V6]

I watched the Jay Lenos Garage on the Z28 and man that car looks sick. Not really a 5th gen fan but Jay gave it a ton of praise. He even got stopped by a couple people on the street as they thought the car was bad ass as well!!

[NastyEllEssWon]

$75k?

How many will actually be used for what that price tag gets you?



lol Jesus H....75k. i know its a lot of car....but 75k for a camaro....never thought I'd see it

[damon_Z]

Looks good. I wish GM can just ditch the big front bow tie and put a big Z28 or classic SS emblem on there.

[PolarBear]

Looks good. I wish GM can just ditch the big front bow tie and put a big Z28 or classic SS emblem on there.

It's not an SS, so not sure why they would do that.....

[sweetbmxrider]

It's not an SS, so not sure why they would do that.....

Maybe he meant in general about all 5th gens?

:nick:

[Fast92RS]

Well the car is selling. At camaro5 forums there is atleast a handful of people who have ordered a z28. So there are people willing to buy a 75k Camaro. Hey I was willing to pay 55k for mine so whats another 20k lol.

[LTb1ow]

No one is arguing that they won't sell, its whether or not a 75k track ready car ever sees action past car cruises and bragging about what the owners manual claims.

[sweetbmxrider]

I think the argument is how jelly can one get over another's z28?

[LTb1ow]

Smuckers jelli, jelly.

[maroman88]

check out the 'Flowtie'

[sweetbmxrider]

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/z-28s-aero-bowtie-flowtie-1536008995

That's pretty cool!

[Fast92RS]

The thing that get gets me is there are so many ss owners bashing the z28. There are so many of them saying they can build one for less lol. I like that article that was posted about cost.

[BonzoHansen]

The thing that get gets me is there are so many ss owners bashing the z28. There are so many of them saying they can build one for less lol. I like that article that was posted about cost.

that is because they fall into the typical engine upgrade/HP trap. They forget all the other stuff involved. and they are jealous.

[Mike]

If I was in the position to buy a $75k new car it wouldn't be this. It would be something that could be used on a much more regular basis

If I was in the position to have an auto-x/road course car it woudnt be this.
I'll explain this part by saying I wouldn't want a 75k new car to ding and scar up, especially while it's still being paid for. I can most assuredly build a car for this duty that will out perform a stock z/28 and come in under that price tag.

Now if budget was zero consideration my opinions may be different. But unless every one of these cars goes to a rich guy that wants to race without wrenching, not many will be used for their intended purpose

[BonzoHansen]

i'd go 1le for a regular guy like me

[PolarBear]

I can most assuredly build a car for this duty that will out perform a stock z/28 and come in under that price tag.

Unless you start with a de-valued used car, you can't. That's what the article I posted is saying.

[Mike]

Unless you start with a de-valued used car, you can't. That's what the article I posted is saying.

Of course I would. That is what I said. I don't want to worry about having a brand new car with brand new paint when I go off into the gravel or hit cones or any of the multitude of other things that can happen on a track.

For a dedicated track car a fifth gen in general wouldn't be in my top 10 starting platforms

Also, that link uses full sticker price on the ss and factors 15k in labor to make their point. Do all your own work and you can probably even do it with a fifth gen.

[BonzoHansen]

yeah, you are not building a used gen5 SS that will keep up with that car on an open track for that price. there is a reason the higher powered ZL1 can't even keep up.

I'm not saying the z28 is a great street car/DD. it is not. the recurring tire bill alone would probably cover a cheap daily driver. and I am sure most will not be used appropriately or to the fullest extent, but that is irrelevant. you could say that about most higher end performance cars. GM has no control over how a car is used.


open track seems where the gen5 really shines. what 10 cars do you pick in front of it?

[sweetbmxrider]

Of course I would. That is what I said. I don't want to worry about having a brand new car with brand new paint when I go off into the gravel or hit cones or any of the multitude of other things that can happen on a track.

For a dedicated track car a fifth gen in general wouldn't be in my top 10 starting platforms

Also, that link uses full sticker price on the ss and factors 15k in labor to make their point. Do all your own work and you can probably even do it with a fifth gen.

Warranty.

[PolarBear]

Also, that link uses full sticker price on the ss and factors 15k in labor to make their point. Do all your own work and you can probably even do it with a fifth gen.

Only factors in about $12,000 of unknown which includes more parts including carbon fiber parts and a special piece of rear glass, different shocks, trans and rear diff coolers. There are going to be other unknown parts in that price too New LS7 with all the fixins needed for the dry sump is about right on at $15,000 that they are saying and then the brakes are around $5,000 for the rotors alone so the labor really isn't anywhere near $12,000. You're still going to need to spend around that $30k just to keep up with a car that has a factory warrantee

[Paul Huryk]

Only factors in about $12,000 of unknown which includes more parts including carbon fiber parts and a special piece of rear glass, different shocks, trans and rear diff coolers. There are going to be other unknown parts in that price too New LS7 with all the fixins needed for the dry sump is about right on at $15,000 that they are saying and then the brakes are around $5,000 for the rotors alone so the labor really isn't anywhere near $12,000. You're still going to need to spend around that $30k just to keep up with a car that has a factory warrantee

As with all factory cars, you get a tremendous discount by buying a complete car, rather than buying the pieces separate and building your own.

Keep this in mind that a lot of the parts they add are to band aid a platform to get it track ready. The Z28 may need those pricey brakes to get great stopping without overheating, but a lighter car wouldn't need them. Ditto for half the other parts on the car.

You could take a 2nd gen and put a lineup of similar GM and aftermarket parts and have something just as fast for a lot less, pro touring style without the add ons that blow the budget. Plus it would weigh a lot less, not need the LS7 (LS3 would be more than enough), it would be easier on tires, and it would look awesome. Ditto for the 4th and 3rd gen cars out there.

[BonzoHansen]

You could take a 2nd gen and put a lineup of similar GM and aftermarket parts and have something just as fast for a lot less, pro touring style without the add ons that blow the budget. Plus it would weigh a lot less, not need the LS7 (LS3 would be more than enough), it would be easier on tires, and it would look awesome. Ditto for the 4th and 3rd gen cars out there.

without major mods to that 2nd gen, no you can't. and that is as per the head suspension design engineer of that new z28 who also builds the some of the best track proven 69 camaros

hey, for every nickle you spend over 75k to build an old car that can do this can we upgrade the new z28 too? i'm thinking a simple cam & exhaust kit will add 120 hp w/o trying :)


BTW lift at 120 is no fun.

[Paul Huryk]

without major mods to that 2nd gen, no you can't. and that is as per the head suspension design engineer of that new z28 who also builds the some of the best track proven 69 camaros

hey, for every nickle you spend over 75k to build an old car that can do this can we upgrade the new z28 too? i'm thinking a simple cam & exhaust kit will add 120 hp w/o trying :)


BTW lift at 120 is no fun.

Yes, I am talking about major modifications - full suspension, brakes, drivetrain, rubber.

Let's take an example I was thinking of. A buddy has a disco 2nd gen (1980 Z28) he has been trying to sell me for $5,500 with new paint and a bum motor. Sell some of the good stuff you won't need and you are at $4k. A new 2014 Z28 is $75k plus tax ~ $80k total. I think that for $75k you could turn a 2nd gen with good paint into an equal of a new one while still going for the good parts and survive track use. Not going to be a show winner on the pro touring circuit, but it will haul butt on the track.

The good thing about the LS7 is the fact you can get 650hp out of it with just a few parts changed. But it is a heavy brick and you don't get the favorable power to weight that some of the older cars get by being a lot lighter.

Lift at 120 - don't know much about that as I'm a 3rd gen guy... ;-)

[BonzoHansen]

but that 2nd gen will not outrun that z28. that is what stielow is saying. bolt on stuff is not what I am talking about. even details like fuel tank location are a hindrance to old cars. and they are aerodynamic bricks. you will not have the handling or braking of the new car. impossible. you might think so, but no. not IRS, no ABS, no traction control, no giant composite brakes, no aerodynamic advantage.

i'd love to build exactly what you describe, it's not like I am against all that. but it will not outrun that z on a big track lap after lap after lap. even if i threw the whole DSE catalog at it, the best wilwood setup I can buy, a big HP MAST engine, a built t56 with a cooler, a full floater rear with a cooler and then all the other parts you need to live for a our of wide open a weekend. BTW I'm probably near $50,000 in parts now.

[NJSPEEDER]

I would just like to see one of these factory builds address two of the real problems of the late model pony cars, they are vastly overweight and there is no real DSG or otherwise modern flappy paddle gear box.

Weight slows acceleration, deminishes cornering, and increases stopping distances (yes, even with fancy carbon brakes). Insert commentary about timmay the his typical weight nazi self >>>here<<<

And seriously, why can I get a DSG in an f'ing VW Golf and not in an American performance car? Shift time is lap time and for the person that wants a bit of performance along with the show off qualities of a 75k Camaro a DSG or similar offers modern track performance when you want it and casual automatic driving when you are puttering around town or heading to the local cruise night.

-Tim

[WildBillyT]

I would just like to see one of these factory builds address two of the real problems of the late model pony cars, they are vastly overweight and there is no real DSG or otherwise modern flappy paddle gear box.

Weight slows acceleration, deminishes cornering, and increases stopping distances (yes, even with fancy carbon brakes). Insert commentary about timmay the his typical weight nazi self >>>here<<<

And seriously, why can I get a DSG in an f'ing VW Golf and not in an American performance car? Shift time is lap time and for the person that wants a bit of performance along with the show off qualities of a 75k Camaro a DSG or similar offers modern track performance when you want it and casual automatic driving when you are puttering around town or heading to the local cruise night.

-Tim

Probably torque holding capacity vs. installation price.

[BonzoHansen]

i think you'll see the gen6 car smaller.

but you also have to consider how much the ever increasing crash standards are impacting weight

[WildBillyT]

i think you'll see the gen6 car smaller.

but you also have to consider how much the ever increasing crash standards are impacting weight

And vice versa, quite frankly. F = ma.

[1320B4U]

God I hate dsg but that is what the world is coming to. For the purposes of attaining the best possible lap times as gm is trying to do I can understand offering (or lack-there-of) it but it just takes the driver out of driving imo.

[Paul Huryk]

but that 2nd gen will not outrun that z28. that is what stielow is saying. bolt on stuff is not what I am talking about. even details like fuel tank location are a hindrance to old cars. and they are aerodynamic bricks. you will not have the handling or braking of the new car. impossible. you might think so, but no. not IRS, no ABS, no traction control, no giant composite brakes, no aerodynamic advantage.

They should be pretty close.

I have been following the progression of technology in automobiles and how it affects performance for a very long time - some things matter and others don't. As an example, Porsche loves to give minute details on how their new parts are 6% lighter, or 9% stronger or some other BS that makes zero difference.

ABS is a great system to have, but it cannot shorten stopping distances when cars are typically tire limited. You need to have more friction (wider, taller tires; downforce, or stickier compound) to stop quicker. I have not seen any test where the new Z28 is stopping in less than 100feet from 60mph. The big composite brakes are awesome, but they are necessary to keep a 3800lb+ track car from destroying iron rotors on the track, again not going to improve stopping distances; although they won't overheat and fade.

Handling is something that GM really did their homework on with the Z28. They made a floaty, heavy car into a world class handler. But you can equal 1.08g in many suspension packages for older musclecars now. My CMC customers are pulling over 1.4g on 275 width tires without any real downforce in their crapbox 3rd gens with stock style suspensions per the class rules.

Admitedly, 2nd gen aero is not awesome, but the 5th gens are pretty terrible - the 2014 z28 has a .46 CoD.

i'd love to build exactly what you describe, it's not like I am against all that. but it will not outrun that z on a big track lap after lap after lap. even if i threw the whole DSE catalog at it, the best wilwood setup I can buy, a big HP MAST engine, a built t56 with a cooler, a full floater rear with a cooler and then all the other parts you need to live for a our of wide open a weekend. BTW I'm probably near $50,000 in parts now.

You read my mind in terms of parts to fill up the $75k budget. You definitely want to go 100% on the suspension and rubber, but you don't have to go so buck wild on a lot of parts that won't make the car perform better. A 6 piston 14" brake kit on a 3300lb car will work just as well as the 15.5" composite kit on the 3800lb Z28. You can run a 500hp LS3 as you are 500lbs less. Coolers are easy to stick in to keep everything from overheating. T56 is a bolt in these days. A little creative aero work and you are good to go.

[BonzoHansen]

close doesn't count on the track lol

"although they won't overheat and fade" - kind of important when you are running willow springs or gingerman for 30 minutes plus at a time.

ABC & TC makes a car like that much more drivable, do not downplay that. steilow indicated when he got the ABS dialed in on the red devil car his laps time improved - and that was after he custom designed his own floater rear setup so the ABS readings were good at high speeds. i guess it's freaky when ABS fails at 125+. and he is no slouch driver.

F1 uses all that fancy ABS & TC too, must be for some reason.

oh, and if we don't modify the new Z you need to make that old car pass emissions too.

the conversation is not close. it is equal or better for $75,000. and I say no.

[Paul Huryk]

I would just like to see one of these factory builds address two of the real problems of the late model pony cars, they are vastly overweight and there is no real DSG or otherwise modern flappy paddle gear box.

Weight slows acceleration, deminishes cornering, and increases stopping distances (yes, even with fancy carbon brakes). Insert commentary about timmay the his typical weight nazi self >>>here<<<

And seriously, why can I get a DSG in an f'ing VW Golf and not in an American performance car? Shift time is lap time and for the person that wants a bit of performance along with the show off qualities of a 75k Camaro a DSG or similar offers modern track performance when you want it and casual automatic driving when you are puttering around town or heading to the local cruise night.

-Tim

Tim hammers my point home here...

All the useful technology and track worthy parts are being partially wasted on a car that is 300 to 500lbs heavier than it needs to be - slowing it down in all axes of acceleration. I'm also going to throw in the idea that the new pony cars are aerodynamically inferior to previous generations, downforce aside.

Stick 90% of that technology and parts list into a lighter, more efficient car and you should go just as fast or faster. And we are talking about parts swapping, not to the Nth degree engineering here.

I'm not a fan of DSG, but it does make a car quicker. There are a lot of high end exotics that are faster with them than without and are easier to drive everyday too.

[WildBillyT]

Tim hammers my point home here...

All the useful technology and track worthy parts are being partially wasted on a car that is 300 to 500lbs heavier than it needs to be - slowing it down in all axes of acceleration. I'm also going to throw in the idea that the new pony cars are aerodynamically inferior to previous generations, downforce aside.

Stick 90% of that technology and parts list into a lighter, more efficient car and you should go just as fast or faster. And we are talking about parts swapping, not to the Nth degree engineering here.

I'm not a fan of DSG, but it does make a car quicker. There are a lot of high end exotics that are faster with them than without and are easier to drive everyday too.

I think the issue here is that you can't just bolt some of this stuff on, at least for the price. $75k may seem like a lot but you do need to account for all of the time and custom development work it takes to update the older car. Retrofitting TC and ABS is not easy and/or cheap. Nor are all of the body/chassis mods that need to be made to fix wacky weight distribution and suspension design. At some point it will probably be a 2nd gen by VIN and body only.

IMO the new Z is not a bargain but you can't build a similar car for 75k.


And just curious, why all the DSG hate?

[NJSPEEDER]

Probably torque holding capacity vs. installation price.

Bugati Veyron = 1000hp at over 2 tons and its cheap enough to put in a Golf.

The Z28 comes with some cool toys but what is left out doesn't make sense to me when looking at the mark up. GM keeps coming out with performance cars claiming to have a world class pedigree but they are missing world class performance parts.

-Tim

[Paul Huryk]

close doesn't count on the track lol

"although they won't overheat and fade" - kind of important when you are running willow springs or gingerman for 30 minutes plus at a time.

ABC & TC makes a car like that much more drivable, do not downplay that. steilow indicated when he got the ABS dialed in on the red devil car his laps time improved - and that was after he custom designed his own floater rear setup so the ABS readings were good at high speeds. i guess it's freaky when ABS fails at 125+. and he is no slouch driver.

F1 uses all that fancy ABS & TC too, must be for some reason.

oh, and if we don't modify the new Z you need to make that old car pass emissions too.

the conversation is not close. it is equal or better for $75,000. and I say no.

Within a second of each other on the same track is close. Not talking 4 or 5 seconds here.

30 minutes is a short race. I have a chumpcar customer who runs between 7 and 24 hours straight on a 13" 4 piston 2pc rotor brake kit in his 3rd gen. As the car is about 3,000lbs it never overheats the brakes, even when running at a constant 99%.

A lot of performance cars use ABS and TC as a crutch for having parts way too powerful to be controlled by you brain, gut, and feet. As an example, those super powerful turbocharged AMG Mercedes need TC to be able to not spin the tires to Chicago - they have so much power that the tires could only wish to put it all to the ground, even at higher speeds. Another example is how you need ABS on the 2014 Z28 due to the amount of grip the composite brakes can give - way too much for the 305 width soft compound tires they stick on them.

Now if you ask me is the new Z28 going to be a more enjoyable, less taxing car to drive for a 45 minute session on VIR, I would absolutely say yes. Although there is a sense of accomplishment of sitting in a pool of sweat, not being able to carry yourself out of a car after a long track session in a violent, 100% attention required car.

F1 uses ABS and TC to keep those cars on the road and lap times fast & consistent. No one is capable of driving a car like that without those aids for more than a lap or two.

[WildBillyT]

Bugati Veyron = 1000hp at over 2 tons and its cheap enough to put in a Golf.

The Z28 comes with some cool toys but what is left out doesn't make sense to me when looking at the mark up. GM keeps coming out with performance cars claiming to have a world class pedigree but they are missing world class performance parts.

-Tim

Not the same trans.

[NJSPEEDER]

The premise carries. If there are versions of value and durability sufficient to install in cars ranging from 1/4 to 14 times the price I am sure there is something available.

-Tim

[WildBillyT]

Well, as an FYI, according to the VW study course the max torque for the "regular" DSG is 258 lb-ft.

And I'm not saying something couldn't be designed to work, only that the price to make it available might push the price of the vehicle much higher than they want it to be.

[BonzoHansen]

Bugati Veyron = 1000hp at over 2 tons and its cheap enough to put in a Golf.

The Z28 comes with some cool toys but what is left out doesn't make sense to me when looking at the mark up. GM keeps coming out with performance cars claiming to have a world class pedigree but they are missing world class performance parts.

-Tim

so it doesn't have a shifter setup you like. what other world class performance parts is it missing?

[Mike]

Warranty.

Void the second it hits a track

[Mike]

Only factors in about $12,000 of unknown which includes more parts including carbon fiber parts and a special piece of rear glass, different shocks, trans and rear diff coolers. There are going to be other unknown parts in that price too New LS7 with all the fixins needed for the dry sump is about right on at $15,000 that they are saying and then the brakes are around $5,000 for the rotors alone so the labor really isn't anywhere near $12,000. You're still going to need to spend around that $30k just to keep up with a car that has a factory warrantee

The article you posted said they weren't factoring in the brakes. So you can't use them to debunk me

[redsoxsstink]

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/help.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/mar/0304-chevy-flowtie.html

Found this interesting

[Mike]

open track seems where the gen5 really shines. what 10 cars do you pick in front of it?

C5, c6, several porches, 4th gen,

I would engine swap a solstice/sky, miata, rx7, new frs thing before I used a 5th gen.

[Fast92RS]

Void the second it hits a track

Not true GM will warranty the car if you break it at the track. as long as you follow the break in period before taking it to the track. In one of my videos that give you the welcome for my ZL1, Al Oppenheiser says they want you to bring it to the track and if you happen to blow an engine at the track GM will replace it. I have to find that video.

[Mike]

I would like to see the first person that tries to use that and see what gm back pedals too. Ford claimed they were gonna cover the raptors and have refused a few people that have broken them off road

[Paul Huryk]

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/help.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/mar/0304-chevy-flowtie.html

Found this interesting

GM is trying to be like Porsche with this level of interesting, but useless information.

[Fast92RS]

I would like to see the first person that tries to use that and see what gm back pedals too. Ford claimed they were gonna cover the raptors and have refused a few people that have broken them off road

I can see that, but I am sure it has occurred because the zl1 has been out since 2012. The welcome videos discuss taking the car to the track and there is one video just on what to do when you take it so I think it would be pretty hard for GM not keep there claims. There is a whole discussion on this in another forum and since each dealership is owned individually I guess it comes down to the dealer honoring the warranty.

This is what i can find so far:
The ZL1 comes with a track warranty - meaning you can go to a test n' tune and break your axle, GM will cover it.

What you can't do is sign up for a race/competition - that voids the warranty.

But again if they find that it was abuse of the car and not actual part failure Im sure they will find a way to screw you.

[sweetbmxrider]

Void the second it hits a track

This guy says it doesn't? (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/16/2014-chevy-camaro-z28-deep-dive-review-video/)

Chevy is dead set on venturing off into the land of the Nissan GT-R and Porsche 911 GT3 with its track-focused Z/28, and firmly states that this car is not to be treated as a daily driver. To that end, Chevy is extending the factory warranty on the Z/28 to include track use – the company stands behind the full performance capabilities of this car.

I guess with that first line, there should be deep pockets to pick up this toy and beat up on some yuppies!

Production of the Z/28 starts in the first quarter of 2014, with sales anticipated to start sometime before Q2. Pricing has not been announced, and executives wouldn't even hint at possible starting MSRPs. That said, Chevy is fully expecting the Z/28 to be a low-volume car, only selling at about half the rate of the ZL1. The company would like to sell maybe 3,000 to 4,000 Z/28 models over the next two years.

So, who's the target customer? It can't really be driven every day (again, Chevy flat out told us that it shouldn't be), and a more powerful ZL1 offers better refinement and more creature comforts. Ideally, private track users will be the folks stepping up to the Z/28 plate, and we'll be curious to see if would-be 911 or GT-R owners give the American bad boy a try. No doubt, Camaro enthusiasts will surely pick up a few on their own, and we'll be watching the sales numbers closely.

The whole article was a good read, I suggest everyone in here go through it to really appreciate the car and the work put into it. This was another good exert to answer some questions here.

[PolarBear]

The article you posted said they weren't factoring in the brakes. So you can't use them to debunk me

While you ARE correct (and I mis-read the article), it doesn't debunk the overall argument that you can't build it for less with a new car :wink:

[BonzoHansen]

The whole article was a good read, I suggest everyone in here go through it to really appreciate the car and the work put into it. This was another good exert to answer some questions here.

why? isn't it more fun to bash gm for not building fast cars and bash the fast car they build? because usually its the same people who do both. or if they pulled a ford and dropped a pile of HP in a poor chassis and got spanked on the track the complaints would roll. So GM can't win. So good for them for building a camaro that beats cars twice its price and to hell with the interweb complainers. It's a halo car where the halo shines bright and that is good for all us camaro fans.

[NastyEllEssWon]

why? isn't it more fun to bash gm for not building fast cars and bash the fast car they build? because usually its the same people who do both. or if they pulled a ford and dropped a pile of HP in a poor chassis and got spanked on the track the complaints would roll. So GM can't win. So good for them for building a camaro that beats cars twice its price and to hell with the interweb complainers. It's a halo car where the halo shines bright and that is good for all us camaro fans.



its a helluva car but to me this just feels wrong. although its probably worth every single penny, the camaro has always been a bang for your buck platform...even though the z28 has a rich heritage in racing, the camaro also has a rich heritage of being affordable. i guess it is an ''affordable'' race car but seeing 75k on the sticker of a camaro is just mind boggling for some...myself included.

that said, i cant wait to see one in person :D

[WildBillyT]

its a helluva car but to me this just feels wrong. although its probably worth every single penny, the camaro has always been a bang for your buck platform...even though the z28 has a rich heritage in racing, the camaro also has a rich heritage of being affordable. i guess it is an ''affordable'' race car but seeing 75k on the sticker of a camaro is just mind boggling for some...myself included.

that said, i cant wait to see one in person :D

Adjusted price is similar to a Baldwin-Motion car from the late 60's.

[LTb1ow]

why? isn't it more fun to bash gm for not building fast cars and bash the fast car they build? because usually its the same people who do both. or if they pulled a ford and dropped a pile of HP in a poor chassis and got spanked on the track the complaints would roll. So GM can't win. So good for them for building a camaro that beats cars twice its price and to hell with the interweb complainers. It's a halo car where the halo shines bright and that is good for all us camaro fans.

its a helluva car but to me this just feels wrong. although its probably worth every single penny, the camaro has always been a bang for your buck platform...even though the z28 has a rich heritage in racing, the camaro also has a rich heritage of being affordable. i guess it is an ''affordable'' race car but seeing 75k on the sticker of a camaro is just mind boggling for some...myself included.

that said, i cant wait to see one in person :D

Don't get me wrong, its awesome that GM is making kick ass all around cars like this. I am with nasty, its great that GM is making a sweet ass car like this, but the price tag is still a shocker to me. And def throws into question whether it will actually be used to the full extent of what 75k gets you as far as race car stuff.

IE like what Mike was saying.. if I have a shiny new 75k car I certainly wouldn't wanna get it dinged up etc.

Car pricing is absurd, I will stick to my old style LT1. Even switching to trucks, a nice diesel is in the sky pricing these days. Inflation, gah.

[Mike]

I skimmed right over James posting that rotors are 5k. Just thinking about brake jobs has my head spinning right now....

And I don't think they can cut the carbon ceramic rotors. So it's new ones at every brake job. Maybe multiple times a season if used for intended purpose

[BonzoHansen]

that's the price of racing

[Mike]

Right but not the price of a midlife crisis cruise night warrior

[PolarBear]

I skimmed right over James posting that rotors are 5k. Just thinking about brake jobs has my head spinning right now....

And I don't think they can cut the carbon ceramic rotors. So it's new ones at every brake job. Maybe multiple times a season if used for intended purpose

Carbon rotors should last more than 100,000 miles even with track use from what I am reading. Most people aren't even keeping high performance cars that long, or using them to that point. Some things I am reading are saying that the rotors should last 200,000

[sweetbmxrider]

Don't get me wrong, its awesome that GM is making kick ass all around cars like this. I am with nasty, its great that GM is making a sweet ass car like this, but the price tag is still a shocker to me. And def throws into question whether it will actually be used to the full extent of what 75k gets you as far as race car stuff.

IE like what Mike was saying.. if I have a shiny new 75k car I certainly wouldn't wanna get it dinged up etc.

Car pricing is absurd, I will stick to my old style LT1. Even switching to trucks, a nice diesel is in the sky pricing these days. Inflation, gah.

Most track events, you aren't slamming into each other and disintegrating the car on lap 2. There is a lot of engineering and R&D into this car. Its not one they bolted a bunch of parts to, slammed a badge on it, and said buy now! Its not marketed to be sold to the masses as per the article. Its a flagship style car to show what the automaker is capable of and will act as R&D for future developments. See first year car.

I skimmed right over James posting that rotors are 5k. Just thinking about brake jobs has my head spinning right now....

And I don't think they can cut the carbon ceramic rotors. So it's new ones at every brake job. Maybe multiple times a season if used for intended purpose

As Bear said, these rotors aren't like your conventional rotors. They use the same style on high end exotics. I believe they are on some vettes as well, most likely the zr1.

[Fast92RS]

The zl1 front rotors are $500 a price and pads are $250 for a set I can't imagine the cost of a brake job on the z28

[PolarBear]

The zl1 front rotors are $500 a price and pads are $250 for a set I can't imagine the cost of a brake job on the z28

Probably be north of $6,000

[Paul Huryk]

I skimmed right over James posting that rotors are 5k. Just thinking about brake jobs has my head spinning right now....

And I don't think they can cut the carbon ceramic rotors. So it's new ones at every brake job. Maybe multiple times a season if used for intended purpose

Those rotors don't wear out that quickly. You may get a set to last a full season of racing. I think that if you bed new pads on them first, you can just swap them out with not too many problems.

[BigAls87Z28]

The zl1 front rotors are $500 a price and pads are $250 for a set I can't imagine the cost of a brake job on the z28

And that's conventional cast iron rotors and regular pads.

Carbon Ceramic brakes, on average, can be a 12-15k option on some exotics.
And that's just the brakes. You are forgetting the special forged 19" wheels, the F1-style shocks and a bunch of other Z28-only parts that add to the cost.
The car isn't for everyone, and GM highlighted that several times in both the press conference and in other materials.

If you want a great handling 5th gen, get a 1LE.

[WildBillyT]

ySmEJyQ94BI

Note the presenter.

[BonzoHansen]

The tires slipped on the rim 360*! wow

Yeah, that is Mark Stielow, he was head suspension engineer on that car. He knows his stuff upside down. Same guy who says it would be extremely difficult to build an old car to match a car like this and still maintain the same level of street car' manners and reliability. And he builds that type of 1st gen for fun (ones that outrun new ZL1s and are totally go streetable, incl. A/C), so he knows both platforms well and is true car guy. BTK and I talked to him in November at SEMA about this car.

[Jersey Mike]

ySmEJyQ94BI

Note the presenter.

That's awesome...
ETA on public perception of "American Cars Can't Handle" being put to pasture?

[WildBillyT]

Won't happen in my lifetime.

[BonzoHansen]

That's awesome...
ETA on public perception of "American Cars Can't Handle" being put to pasture?

well, GM cars can handle.

[sweetbmxrider]

That thing sounded good...

[LTb1ow]

dat sound

Could pull a FFB and just go drop 75k, regret it later.

[Paul Huryk]

ySmEJyQ94BI

Note the presenter.

Came across this earlier today on yahoo. GM is really pushing the "technical competence" of the Z28 parts at a level I have never seen before - a good thing.

The question I have is is there some sort of wheel design or manufacturing problem with these wheels? It's not like the Z28 is stopping from 60mph in 70 feet or something rediculous like that. Might just be an issue of 4,000 lbs of car with a crapload of braking power? I'm curious...

[BigAls87Z28]

3,700lbs, but there are other cars out there that are that heavy, have that much power, and that much brake. I wonder if the media blasting is common elsewhere.
Tires are also crazy sticky, so combined with the massive CC brakes, I can see why it would rotate.

[Fast92RS]

This is one of the reasons why I bought my ZL1. Yes the Z28 was taken to the next level but with both cars GM didn't just bolt on a bunch of parts and sent it out. They took there time with wind tunnel testing, track testing and tons of other work that went into making these cars better than the competition for a great value. IMO I think that what Ford is doing with there mustang. Just basically bolting on more power and claiming they have the most powerful pony car.

[BigAls87Z28]

That's what the internet wants. Big engine, live rear axle, manual trans and with little to no work on anything else.

[LTb1ow]

I just wanna go fast.

[Fast92RS]

"If that wasn’t enough proof that Chevy believes the Z/28 is a true track machine, think about this. General Motors will provide you full warranty service even if you cane your Camaro at the local track. There are essentially no other manufacturers that will cover your engine explosion in turn 6 at VIR."


http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/chevrolet-camaro-z-28-features-modified-bowtie-and-a-warranty-that-covers-track-use-ar162637.html

[Fast92RS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnHiDiBNymc

[BonzoHansen]

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/how-an-on-track-showdown-between-america-s-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-and-japan-s-nissan-gt-r-changes-perception-190444455.html?vp=1

"we didn't bring any mustang because that would be too easy"

[WildBillyT]

"If that wasn’t enough proof that Chevy believes the Z/28 is a true track machine, think about this. General Motors will provide you full warranty service even if you cane your Camaro at the local track. There are essentially no other manufacturers that will cover your engine explosion in turn 6 at VIR."


http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/chevrolet-camaro-z-28-features-modified-bowtie-and-a-warranty-that-covers-track-use-ar162637.html

Might be where some of the price comes from, too.

[Fast92RS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdhNc_36Kc

[Featherburner]

Up against Big Red!



http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/1406_2014_camaro_z28_forces/results.html

[Fast92RS]

The Z28 beat big red and the mustang with the best lap time but big red had a higher top speed. The mustang also had a better lap time than big red but only by a hair. While the mustang and big red could be neck and neck. The z28 was faster than both on the track. I like it.

[BonzoHansen]

The Z28 beat big red and the mustang with the best lap time but big red had a higher top speed. The mustang also had a better lap time than big red but only by a hair. While the mustang and big red could be neck and neck. The z28 was faster than both on the track. I like it.

and the fire breathing BBC sounded best lol

[PolarBear]

New Z versus a Second gen. I wish it wasn't Finch's car, but what can you do

http://www.camaroperformers.com/news/1403-2014-chevrolet-camaro-z28-vs-pro-touring-1971/

**EDIT** I love how Brian toutes his car as built himself, but he really didn't do much at all on the car

[LTb1ow]

I still prefer the 2nd gen over the 5th, by a lot.

Guess I am not old enough yet to appreciate creature comforts and barge size cars.

[Fast92RS]

So the new car is faster (from what we hear, it beat all the high-end imports, too), ergo the question gets down to price. The Z/28 is $75,000, including destination. To replicate Finch’s car, he said it would cost…$75,000. He got his car at auction years ago for only $320 and did nearly all the work himself. Unless you already have a second-gen, you’ve got to factor in a whole lot more greenbacks—and you still won’t have those unreal carbon ceramic brakes or factory warranty. You won’t have to do a ton of bodywork or replace rusty panels. Ultimately, the new car is both cheaper and faster on track.

Read more: http://www.superchevy.com/features/camaro/1403_2014_chevy_camaro_z28_track_test/#ixzz2wzOx5bEl:nod:

[LTb1ow]

"or you don’t have the time to deal with fixing things, the new car is perfect. You go to the track, adjust your tire pressures and go."

Prob the number one reason new "muscle" car owners come across as arrogant know it alls and old car owners come across as jealous kids.

[Paul Huryk]

The Z28 beat big red and the mustang with the best lap time but big red had a higher top speed. The mustang also had a better lap time than big red but only by a hair. While the mustang and big red could be neck and neck. The z28 was faster than both on the track. I like it.

Big Red is more of an open road racer, although i know they do standing mile contest too. More of a brute force weapon than one based in finesse (like a 911 or M3). It is also at least 35mph faster in top speed than the 2014 Z28, if not more.

[Fast92RS]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=610662&d=1395760232
C6e1H_9UZak

[Fast92RS]

Comparison:
Camaro Z/28 vs. 911 Turbo S vs. GT-R Track Edition

3rd Place: Nissan GT-R Track Edition
Old soldiers never die, they just fade away. Still a monster, but long in the tooth. The 2015 refresh arrives none too soon.
2nd Place: Porsche 911 Turbo S
One of the quickest production cars of all time, the Turbo S is caught in a weird space between grand touring and track attack.
1st Place: Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
Impressive. Most impressive. The General flexes its red, white, and blue muscles. Simply put, this is Chevy at its best.



Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1403_chevrolet_camaro_z28_porsche_911_turbo_s_niss an_gt_r_comparison/#ixzz2xBbMHTyd

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1403_chevrolet_camaro_z28_porsche_911_turbo_s_niss an_gt_r_comparison/viewall.html

[BonzoHansen]

it's one hell of a halo car

[WildBillyT]

Where is the warranty thing written?

[Fast92RS]

Where is the warranty thing written?

Its written in GM's warranty manual according to the owners manual. I have not been able to find it.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609121&d=1395240114
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609122&d=1395240114
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609122&d=1395240114
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609123&d=1395240114
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609123&d=1395240114

[Jersey Mike]

This is nonsense. American cars can't do anything other than go in a straight line.

Trust me, I used to have a ['8x/'9x/'0x] [Camaro/Trans Am].

[WildBillyT]

Its written in GM's warranty manual according to the owners manual. I have not been able to find it.


Neither have I, that's why I asked.

[sweetbmxrider]

Can't find the warranty manual? I assume you guys are looking for that but the owner's manual said that is where the info is. I also assume you guys read that, I'm merely just here to type nonsense :)

[Fast92RS]

Neither have I, that's why I asked.

I wonder if you can obtain a copy from a dealer or gm.

[BigAls87Z28]

They did the same thing for ZL1, Z06, and ZR1.

[Paul Huryk]

This is nonsense. American cars can't do anything other than go in a straight line.

Trust me, I used to have a ['8x/'9x/'0x] [Camaro/Trans Am].

You didn't have one of the SLP Lingenfelter Callaway Croyco special edition cars did you? Those cars made the 2014 Z28's handling look minivan-like in comparison.

LOL

[Fast92RS]

GM has just announced, in an effort to prevent Z/28 cloning, approx 40 specific Z/28 parts will be restricted:

With the launch of the new Camaro Z/28, approximately 40 different Z/28 specific parts will be placed on restriction. This action is being taken to protect the vehicle’s brand and customer’s investment by preventing the “cloning” of the Z/28.

Dealers will be required to obtain specific vehicle & owner information before any parts order request can begin.

Part orders for the restricted parts will be monitored and reported to the Camaro Program Team, GM Regional Warranty Managers and appropriate Field personnel.

Z/28 parts replaced for warranty, will be requested back through the parts return process, for analysis.

[sweetbmxrider]

Saw it at the auto show last week, pretty dope. I can't believe the size of the tires! And the flowtie is neat :lol:

[Fast92RS]

Also GM has reported all 2014 Z28's have sold out. All 500 have been bought.

[LTb1ow]

lulz @ protecting customer "investment"

It all seems like a huge waste, why buy race car to have it sit and "collect" value.

#midlifecrisis #stupidpeoplethinktheycandrivefastnow

[sweetbmxrider]

I think some of the ZL1 stuff is the same way.

[Fast92RS]

I think some of the ZL1 stuff is the same way.

all of the ZL1 stuff is available from Chevy performance. The brakes, short throw shifter, supercharger, wheels, and a few other items. There are no restrictions on any of the cosmetic pieces either. The only thing they don't sell is the magnetic ride suspension stuff, I guess that involves to much to make a bolt on kit.

[V]

hmmm... i wonder if anyone with the rs led taillights will trade straight up for my "Z28" taillights.... lol