Fuel Pump install - Access door Yea/Nay?

[The_Bishop]

So I'm here looking at my racetronix pump and hotwire kit. I'm probably going to tackle this next week once the temps drop to a tolerable level.

Have any of you cut an access panel for the fuel pump? Looks to be a smart way to do it for future fuel pump changes. Any cons to doing this?

[sweetbmxrider]

:facepalm:

[The_Bishop]

What's with the facepalm?

[sweetbmxrider]

What's so hard about dropping the tank and not hacking your car up? If you do a clean access door after with proper sealing then I guess I can accept the hack attack.

[WildBillyT]

So I'm here looking at my racetronix pump and hotwire kit. I'm probably going to tackle this next week once the temps drop to a tolerable level.

Have any of you cut an access panel for the fuel pump? Looks to be a smart way to do it for future fuel pump changes. Any cons to doing this?

How frequently do you plan on changing your fuel pump?

[deadtrend1]

I would not cut a hole. Yours a bit harder since its a 98 but its not hard to drop the tank. In the driveway

[LTb1ow]

Are you not a firefighter?

[The_Bishop]

BMX - Well,I was thinking about the trap door, but I'm also here soliciting opinions. Being as the overall consensus is towards, "WTF, ARE YOU RETARDED NO" I'm now probably going to end up dropping the tank.

WildbillyT - After this time? Hopefully never.

LTB1ow - Saw your fuel pump shenanigans post from way back, it made me think twice. If I was going to cut it would have not been a cutoff wheel. I might be crazy, but I'm not stupid.

[LTb1ow]

Well, you know the general consensus of the above 21+ group, its a hack and a half in my eyes and just adds a risk to things.

But again, its only gasoline in a tank, worked fine for pintos I read.

[WildBillyT]

BMX - Well,I was thinking about the trap door, but I'm also here soliciting opinions. Being as the overall consensus is towards, "WTF, ARE YOU RETARDED NO" I'm now probably going to end up dropping the tank.

WildbillyT - After this time? Hopefully never.

LTB1ow - Saw your fuel pump shenanigans post from way back, it made me think twice. If I was going to cut it would have not been a cutoff wheel. I might be crazy, but I'm not stupid.

A bunch of guys got a bad run of Walbro pumps (or not even authentic Walbros) which lead to "mad crazy fuel pump shens".

If you're only changing it once, drop the tank.

[sweetbmxrider]

:rofl: I think I'm on #4 or #5, not a single hole was cut. If you have a 10 bolt its real easy. Just undo the shocks and phb and t/a and let it pivot all the way forward on the lcas. That should give enough room to angle the tank out by yourself. Probably the only pain would be a stubborn exhaust.

[The_Bishop]

LTB1ow - Yeah. Just was under the car looking at it, aside from dropping the exhaust it doesn't look *too* bad. If my friend's lift wasn't a 'drive on' style it would be a no brainer. Guess I'll be on my back in the driveway with the car on jackstands.

I guess I was trying to justify the 'hack'. :laugh:

WildBillyT - I bought the kit directly from Racetronix, so I'm hoping that helps with the fake pump problem.

BMX - Ok, Ok - You convinced me.

[PolarBear]

Someone did that hack in my 3rd gen. I plan on welding the hole closed and get it "stock" again in the future

[deadtrend1]

Remember to also remove gas cap and plastic surround in fuel door. Also take out the bolts that hold the brake and fuel lines to the frame.

[LTb1ow]

Remember to also remove gas cap and plastic surround in fuel door. Also take out the bolts that hold the brake and fuel lines to the frame.

What?

Just undo the quick connects for the plastic lines up to the tank. Unless something is different for 98s, I never touched brake lines in the many times I did fuel pumps on mine.

[Blackbirdws6]

Proper way to do it is by dropping the tank as mentioned. Like anything else, if you have never done it before, it will take you longer than others more familiar with the process have stated.

I did the trap door and made a nice plate to seal it all up. Yes, you can call it a "hack" but I did it for ease of future troubleshooting. Especially considering I get to play with two pumps and not just one that can go bad.

[deadtrend1]

What?

Just undo the quick connects for the plastic lines up to the tank. Unless something is different for 98s, I never touched brake lines in the many times I did fuel pumps on mine.

So when you drop the rear it doesnt put tension on the brake lines bolted to the body.

[LTb1ow]

Proper way to do it is by dropping the tank as mentioned. Like anything else, if you have never done it before, it will take you longer than others more familiar with the process have stated.

I did the trap door and made a nice plate to seal it all up. Yes, you can call it a "hack" but I did it for ease of future troubleshooting. Especially considering I get to play with two pumps and not just one that can go bad.

Don't try and justify yourself here pal.

[Blackbirdws6]

Don't try and justify yourself here pal.

Not trying to justify it, just stating what went through my head. Not like I plan on selling the car to anyone else that would care. I give a few of you guys who got whiplashed credit for dropping the tank as many times as you have.

[Dudbird113]

I dropped mine out one the garage floor, no lift needed. Not even that hard to remove, just make sure the tanks empty.

[The_Bishop]

Yeah, doing that now by using the car to run errands. Got to drop about 1/4 tank more.

[MyFirstZ]

I'd cut the panel. You can buy door from any manufacture that uses access panels from inside the car. I'll be using one from a BMW when it comes time.

[Dudbird113]

Yeah, doing that now by using the car to run errands. Got to drop about 1/4 tank more.

Not sure if its on the 98+ bodies but if you dont empty the tank all the way you could always run the pump by jumping the fuel pump prime connector by the pcm just needs a 12v source ran to it. I jumped mine and undid the fuel line at the filter and let it piss into a fuel can

[BonzoHansen]

imo a proper door is ok - of course cut while the tank is out of the car. but it gets back to how many fuel pumps do you plan on changing.

[PolarBear]

imo a proper door is ok - of course cut while the tank is out of the car. but it gets back to how many fuel pumps do you plan on changing.

As much as I would actually agree with this the whole point of them NOT putting in an access is for fire protection. If the car gets hit hard enough in the rear that area will deform.

That would be MY reasoning for call that a hack on anything other than a dedicated racecar

[LTb1ow]

As much as I would actually agree with this the whole point of them NOT putting in an access is for fire protection. If the car gets hit hard enough in the rear that area will deform.

That would be MY reasoning for call that a hack on anything other than a dedicated racecar

Yup, thats my thought as well, call it misguided but I do like the thought of a solid sheet of metal between me and the tank, as does the NHRA etc..

A silly sheet metal cover glued in place is not the same, sorry.

[BonzoHansen]

i think it can be handled ok if done right. A lot of OE cars have access panels.

But usually guys cut the hole with the tank in, which is a bad idea IMO.

[WildBillyT]

i think it can be handled ok if done right. A lot of OE cars have access panels.

But usually guys cut the hole with the tank in, which is a bad idea IMO.

I do not believe hatchback cars do. My old gtp had an access door from the factory.

[PolarBear]

i think it can be handled ok if done right. A lot of OE cars have access panels.

A lot of OE cars where the "trunk" is in the passenger cabin area?

[sweetbmxrider]

I do not believe hatchback cars do. My old gtp had an access door from the factory.

Nissan Rogue had one and I've seen a few sedans with them under the rear seat. Still, I ain't a fan.

[BonzoHansen]

hondas had them under the back seat.

[PolarBear]

Nissan Rogue had one and I've seen a few sedans with them under the rear seat. Still, I ain't a fan.

hondas had them under the back seat.

Neither of those are in crumple zones though, I can understand that

[Mike]

Neither of those are in crumple zones though, I can understand that


The crumple zone ends in the trunk well I thought? The gas tank is obviously directly under that area so it makes sense for the collision to be dispersed prior to that area

[sweetbmxrider]

Yeah I was going to say I sure hope that isn't a crumple zone.

[MyFirstZ]

If a car gets hit hard enough that it deforms that area where the panel would be you have aother issues to worry about then fumes leaking into the body. But most access panels have an gasket as well.

[The_Bishop]

Well, this escalated quickly.

[Jersey Mike]

But a good debate. Personally, I've dropped the tank out of my 2000 and it really wasn't that bad, with the filler neck disconnected (The one out of the '95 is a different story, though). Still, I'm not sure if I would rule out the option of cutting the door--It would just come down to re-sealing it well enough to keep the cabin smelling of only my own fumes.

[The_Bishop]

Point taken. I can see points on either side, going to have to make up my mind sooner or later. Probably going to drop the tank to play it safe.

[LTb1ow]

If a car gets hit hard enough that it deforms that area where the panel would be you have aother issues to worry about then fumes leaking into the body. But most access panels have an access as well.

If you get rear ended and without a hole cut it deforms but does not tear, you still are sealed from a very likely leaking gas tank in what probably was a nasty accident. Now, same accident, but with that layer of metal already punctured, now you have a lovely access point for fumes,or fuel to come say hello.

Highly unlikely and highly theoretical, but still, something to think bout.

Just seems backwards to me.

[MyFirstZ]

I understand what your saying. A fuel tank shouldn't not be leaking to atmosphere anyway so if you are smelling fumes you can at least remove the door and reseal it.

I guess that's just my flat rate mentality though. lol

[1320B4U]

Gm did it this way so it would be more labor to replace the pump...i.e dropping the tank instead of the access panel. If it was redesigned, theres no reason they wouldn't put the access door in. Yes there are hack jobs, but I've also seen ones done real nice w/gaskets, and allen screws/torx done to mimic a factory produced look.

[The_Bishop]

Well, did this today, finally. Dropped the tank. After a lot of wrestling and cursing, the racetronix stuff is in. If I have to do this again any time soon, before my sanity returns and the cuts heal, I'm cutting an access panel. :laugh:

[Slow Z]

Despite having dropped the fuel tank a dozen times, and being able to do it with ease now, I think the first time I did it was one of the worst experiences of my entire life. I'd cut it... it's easier, and who cares really? it's your car, and it isn't in anyway unique, rare, or whatever... and no one is ever going to see it. So why hassle yourself?

[Mike]

Despite having dropped the fuel tank a dozen times, and being able to do it with ease now, I think the first time I did it was one of the worst experiences of my entire life. I'd cut it... it's easier, and who cares really? it's your car, and it isn't in anyway unique, rare, or whatever... and no one is ever going to see it. So why hassle yourself?

No one sees the oil in your engine. Should you leave it out?

[MyFirstZ]

Here is an example of one on a car i just worked on.

Again a fuel tank shouldn't be leaking fumes regardless otherwise it should throw a check engine light. Even when I have seen gas pouring out the top of the gas tank this cover seals it well enought it never made any fumes into the vehicle.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/myfirstcamaro/IMG_20130610_104903_361_zpse8687869.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/myfirstcamaro/media/IMG_20130610_104903_361_zpse8687869.jpg.html)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/myfirstcamaro/IMG_20130610_104851_242_zps9a19eefd.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/myfirstcamaro/media/IMG_20130610_104851_242_zps9a19eefd.jpg.html)

[Slow Z]

No one sees the oil in your engine. Should you leave it out?

Oil is a critical component of an engine, not an unimportant, thin piece of sheet metal that's hidden by carpet and seating. Really, what is the big deal about cutting a small hole into an f-body? Why is it acceptable to do all sorts of other crap to them, but suddenly cutting a hole is crossing the line?

I'm sure a lot of people on here have modified their wheel wells for tire clearance, drilled holes to mount ignition boxes, etc. and no one cries when they see that.

[BonzoHansen]

Oil is a critical component of an engine, not an unimportant, thin piece of sheet metal that's hidden by carpet and seating. Really, what is the big deal about cutting a small hole into an f-body? Why is it acceptable to do all sorts of other crap to them, but suddenly cutting a hole is crossing the line?

I'm sure a lot of people on here have modified their wheel wells for tire clearance, drilled holes to mount ignition boxes, etc. and no one cries when they see that.

i think the biggest concern is the action of cutting itself, especially in cars with metal tanks (so what, 82-98?). one slip and boom.

ok, for the literal police, fire is the concern...

[Slow Z]

i think the biggest concern is the action of cutting itself, especially in cars with metal tanks (so what, 82-98?). one slip and boom.

If that is the reason, it's very irrational. Even if you did accidentally cut into the tank, the chances of it going "boom" is nearly impossible. This isn't the movies.

[sweetbmxrider]

Oil is a critical component of an engine, not an unimportant, thin piece of sheet metal that's hidden by carpet and seating. Really, what is the big deal about cutting a small hole into an f-body? Why is it acceptable to do all sorts of other crap to them, but suddenly cutting a hole is crossing the line?

I'm sure a lot of people on here have modified their wheel wells for tire clearance, drilled holes to mount ignition boxes, etc. and no one cries when they see that.

Eh, most people hack it apart, looks like ****, and never seal it properly if at all. That is a little different than cutting bump stop mounts or hammering inner fenders and rolling quarter lips. If guys were to do it like the oem photos in this thread, sure go for it. I really don't see where the hassle is with doing it the correct way especially with a 10 bolt. The toughest part will be the exhaust which most people have tinkered with already so it should remove easily. Nice to see you back on the boards!

[The_Bishop]

If I did this where I had more time and room, I could have dropped the tank, cut the access panel, welded in a reinforcing strip around the edge, and made a nice cover that would bolt in just like OEM.

I wanted to get my car back on the road quicker, though. Maybe next winter if I don't have anything else going on.

[Mike]

Oil is a critical component of an engine, not an unimportant, thin piece of sheet metal that's hidden by carpet and seating. Really, what is the big deal about cutting a small hole into an f-body? Why is it acceptable to do all sorts of other crap to them, but suddenly cutting a hole is crossing the line?

I'm sure a lot of people on here have modified their wheel wells for tire clearance, drilled holes to mount ignition boxes, etc. and no one cries when they see that.

It's a unibody car so I can make the same critical component comments about that thin piece of sheet metal

[1QWIKBIRD]

I cut the floor, made a nice cover and its fine. I'll never have to drop the tank ever again. Done right, its no big deal. If you hack it to bits, then yeah, your are setting yourself up to fail.

Hole cut, edges deburred, primed and painted. Nutserts installed, cover shaped to fit the contours of the floor and wrap over the edges of the stamped sections for strength and to help locate it (shaping skills still a work in progress). Primed and painted both sides. Stainless button head hardware, some rubber on the back of the cover along the edges for sealing purposes and call it done. And yes there is room between the underside of the floor and the tank so nothing (nutserts etc.) will puncture or rub the tank over time.

No pointy self tapping single use sheet metal screws or pop rivets, no gobs of RTV, no drilling blindly or cutting through the top of the tank with the whizzer wheel and sparks flying, no plasma cutting, or red wrench. Just common sense and a little bit of planning and some effort will get you through and no one will be the wiser.

Chris

[1320B4U]

Here is an example of one on a car i just worked on.

Again a fuel tank shouldn't be leaking fumes regardless otherwise it should throw a check engine light. Even when I have seen gas pouring out the top of the gas tank this cover seals it well enought it never made any fumes into the vehicle.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/myfirstcamaro/IMG_20130610_104903_361_zpse8687869.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/myfirstcamaro/media/IMG_20130610_104903_361_zpse8687869.jpg.html)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/myfirstcamaro/IMG_20130610_104851_242_zps9a19eefd.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/myfirstcamaro/media/IMG_20130610_104851_242_zps9a19eefd.jpg.html)

I remember draining the tanks from the pump well for vw's when my dealership used to fill up diesels w/gas (by accident)....and no, it wasn't me..

[PolarBear]

I cut the floor, made a nice cover and its fine. I'll never have to drop the tank ever again. Done right, its no big deal. If you hack it to bits, then yeah, your are setting yourself up to fail.

Hole cut, edges deburred, primed and painted. Nutserts installed, cover shaped to fit the contours of the floor and wrap over the edges of the stamped sections for strength and to help locate it (shaping skills still a work in progress). Primed and painted both sides. Stainless button head hardware, some rubber on the back of the cover along the edges for sealing purposes and call it done. And yes there is room between the underside of the floor and the tank so nothing (nutserts etc.) will puncture or rub the tank over time.

No pointy self tapping single use sheet metal screws or pop rivets, no gobs of RTV, no drilling blindly or cutting through the top of the tank with the whizzer wheel and sparks flying, no plasma cutting, or red wrench. Just common sense and a little bit of planning and some effort will get you through and no one will be the wiser.

Chris
Wow

[The_Bishop]

Saw pics of the '98 access panel. It's a bit larger than that.

Pic (obviously not mine):

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/scotts4050/93-98fuelpump.jpg

[WSex]

i butchered mine up.

the question is if you care what people will say

[Slow Z]

It's a unibody car so I can make the same critical component comments about that thin piece of sheet metal

But you would be incorrect. None of that thin sheet metal holds the chassis together. The front and rear sub-frame, braces, suspension, and body panels do. You could remove all the sheet metal from the area I crudely highlighted below without causing any structural issues to the car:

http://i.imgur.com/sAhOcLy.jpg
(disregard where I accidentally highlighted part of the front sub-frame where the trans crossmember mounts - you definitely need that)

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can blindly take a saw to this entire area. You'd have to cut around a few factory braces and mounting points, but if you carefully removed just the sheet metal, the car would be as structurally sound as it was prior to you destroying it.

[Mike]

That car would at a minimum lose square. If not fold in half

[Slow Z]

That car would at a minimum lose square. If not fold in half

You're going from one extreme to another. I don't really know how to prove this to you, but think about this... Do you think GM engineers would make an entire vehicle's chassis depend upon some flimsy sheet metal? Do you think this flimsy sheet metal, despite being able to bend it with your bare hands, is somehow simultaneously strong enough to hold your entire 3400lb car from "folding" in upon itself? Without this metal, your rear differential and k-member will bend, the sub-frame will collapse along with the bumpers/rad support, and your roof will form a V shape? That would be crazy... So just think about all these heavy-ass iron parts that connect to each other, they're what hold the car together. The crappy flimsy sheet metal is just there to separate you from the outside elements.

When it comes to the squareness of an f-body... It's probably not truly square to begin with nor was it when it came off the assembly line brand new.

[Mike]

No, they designed a whole car. Al the pieces depend on the other to maintain their structural integrity

[BonzoHansen]

Dead horse kicked enough