are the 4th gen values appreciating?

[madness410]

I recently became fortunate enough to land a good paying job and figure now is the time I can upgrade my 2002 Camaro and get into a z28 or an ss.

I've been browsing websites for the 4th gen camaros (98-02) figuring i could find a good deal somewhere in the dead of winter...the prices are outrageous for a six speed ls1. I haven't looked in a while prior to the last few weeks but did I miss something or are these cars beginning to appreciate in value or am I looking in the wrong places?

the youngest 4th gen Camaro is already over 12 years old and I can't find a decent one for a good price. figure most I'd pay is 6-7k..will I not find a decent one for that price?

[NastyEllEssWon]

What people ask and what people pay are two different things. :nod: also six speeds always commanded the highest of the bunch. usually 6k range would get you a pretty decently maintained auto or a beat to hell six speed :D

[NJ346]

I think it just depends on where you're looking. I've seen some highly modified lower mileage cars sell for less than 8k in the past 6 months both autos and manuals

[sweetbmxrider]

Never hurts to send an offer....but I think with any used car or truck these days most people want top dollar kbb, nada, or whatever when in reality its either not worth that or no one wants to spend that. If you are selling something, you want the most for it. If you are buying something, you want the best deal. Tis the world as I see it.

[BonzoHansen]

are the 4th gen values appreciatingno.

[WildBillyT]

no.

Agreed. The answer is no. It is hard to tell if they have bottomed out or not.

[V]

People think they are gold. they are not. Im trying to buy a parts car (t56) and people want way too much. Some guy is asking 6k for a complete total. not a single exterior part is undamaged. doors were even ripped off. I made an offer. he responded that he's taking an offer he got for 5k. 2 days later, the ad was updated and still on craigslist for 6k.
at this point im looking for a complete running driving car and ill cut that up, even if its mint. screw ur collectibility.

[qwikz28]

From what I can tell, 4th gens around here are commanding slightly more than other areas from what I can tell on those stupid Facebook groups. I suspect that is due to the general higher cost of living in this area, though.

[Slow-V6]

I say no as well. There was a guy on here that sold his LS1 firehawk a couple months back for 10,000. I have seen Collector edition 02 T/As sell for 10,000 as well. The ones that are holding there value are the 99 Collector edition T/A's. I have a friend who is trying to sell his 01 WS6. It has 3400 miles on it, Auto and he is asking 20,000. Its been f/s for about 8 months now. Also for cheaper prices look for 98-00's.

[sweetbmxrider]

When you get into those higher price ranges, you are opening up to a bigger used car market. For the lower range say $7-10k, there isn't as many options from what I see that offers similar performance etc. so you can sell a car that might be worth a little less to the mass market at a higher price to an enthusiast.

[91FBirdDropTop]

the 3rd gen values are finally going up

[Dudbird113]

Ive seen 3rd gens go up in value, 4th gens are in the middle

[elle]

Still to many out there for them to bring better money. It does surprise me how much people think 3rd gens are worth! They are nuts. Tried to buy a couple last summer and just gave up on that body style after realizing owners were confusing them with 69 Camaros

[1320B4U]

^ Just curious what was the price range they were going for? I've had this discussion many times w/folks that think 3rd gen prices are out of alignment w/the market. Are they increasing, yes. For a clean 3rd gen, iroc or gta or 91-92 z28 I've seen the market between 4-7k, which will get you a 2-3 owner in nice original condition, around 100k miles give or take that wasn't beat on. A lot of folks think these cars should go for 2-3k but beat ones are going for that. If one had 5k you can score a nice later 80's model iroc in real nice shape..l98 equipped..i think its worth that....they are in alignment w/g-bodies of the same variety. (ss or 442's).

4th gens will follow suit in due time..have to get to that 20 year mark which they are just cresting into.

[BonzoHansen]

^^correct, 3rd gens hit their normal bottom years ago and the good ones (clean Z28/IROC/TA/Formula V8 cars & TTAs) have been on the appreciation curve for a while.

4th gens have not reached the bottom yet but are likely close. low mileage performance ones are probably at or near the bottom of the curve, meaning depreciation is slowing. regular used cars (any v6, high mileage, clapped out cars, etc) will continue to drop.

[elle]

I was looking at low mileage 30k or under and in very good condition. I wanted 350, auto and no t tops. The 3 cars I found were all at $15k. I offered $12.5- $13k and all three told me no way that the cars could easily do $15k and were rare. I kept an eye on all 3 and as far as I know they never sold or they sold nowhere near $15k. I had sold my 02 SS for $15k and was not going to pay that same price for a lesser car. I really wanted a 3rd gen body style for a while but that ship has sailed and would buy another 4 gen before any other Camaro at this point. Prob should have never sold my 02 but I always seem to buy and sell and then move on.

[BonzoHansen]

$15k is a lot

[greenformula92]

I don't even know if the 4th gen has truly hit its bottom market yet. the early LT1 cars probably have but the LS cars seem to still be worth a decent amount. I would say you run of the mill LS car will continue to depreciate over the next 3 or 4 years. that being said people think they have gold so that keeps the asking prices high

[1320B4U]

Understood elle. You were willing to pay decent coin for what you wanted and those appeared to be good offers you gave...sounds like a lot of sellers had personnel attachment issues to these cars that outweighed logic on the sellers part.

[Paul Huryk]

I don't really follow 4th gen prices, but will say this in general.

The selling price should depend on the amount of money (in theory) it takes to get a car to a certain condition and price point. If a car in mint condition goes for $15k as an example, then a beat car with way too many miles, with no desirable options should not go for $8K when it needs another $10K in work to be able to sell it for $15K, it should be a $5K car. I know it doesn't work that way, but that is the problem with the pricing.

I know a few of us were talking at the meet about this pricing spread, so it is something that is on everybody's mind. Trickle down effect of the stratospheric pricing on desirable muscle cars on the auctions possibly? Maybe just a bunch of people who can't price their cars to sell them at the time they want to?

[LTb1ow]

The question thats been on my mind lately and its semi related to this topic is this..

Back say in the 60s, did people buy brand new muscle cars in order to save them for collector item status? Or did the sudden collector car status happen once they were not made for a while and numbers dwindled? Back in the day, muscle cars were not astonishingly expensive nor did they come with the latest gizmo, the appeal and money attachment came later no?

To me, it seems that the 5th gen is being bought up by some in a dream that it will appreciate in value the same way 60s muscle cars did. Same could be said about limited run 4th gen cars, and vettes.

[WildBillyT]

The question thats been on my mind lately and its semi related to this topic is this..

Back say in the 60s, did people buy brand new muscle cars in order to save them for collector item status? Or did the sudden collector car status happen once they were not made for a while and numbers dwindled? Back in the day, muscle cars were not astonishingly expensive nor did they come with the latest gizmo, the appeal and money attachment came later no?

To me, it seems that the 5th gen is being bought up by some in a dream that it will appreciate in value the same way 60s muscle cars did. Same could be said about limited run 4th gen cars, and vettes.

I doubt that they will.

In the 60s these were just cars. Sure there were car collectors but nowhere NEAR like the way things are now. Many cars were crushed, especially during the gas crisis era. Original ZL1s and Superbirds (which people lust after now) sold very poorly and typically only moved off of the lot after deep discounts.

Nowadays you have people mothballing cars for the future. Look at all of us as an example- how many have a toy car and a daily? That just wasn't the case back then.

If anything will make a difference it will be when baby boomers start to pass away and these cars hit the market to a group of people that did not grow up with them. Tough to say how that will play out, but I'm guessing things may stay pretty much the same. There are plenty of guys out there who want but can't afford rare 60's stuff now.


The big question on my mind is what will happen to the "Hot Rod" culture. I think that's already heading south.

[BonzoHansen]

The market is of course totally different own than in the 60s-70s. Simply put there was no such market, at least for those type of cars.

But a lot of guys have low mileage 78 vette pace cars lol

most guys who buy cars for collection never take 'carrying costs' into consideration. my neighbor tried that with an 03 Mach I mustang. he ended up selling it for a slight loss off sticker, with <1000 miles on it. but those years of insurance, registration & upkeep costs too.

I know a guy or two on this site that IMO are in that trap.

[elle]

I bought my 02 ss slp from the original owner. The sticker was $3x,xxx.00 ( I think) He told me that he paid near or list for the car when new. He bought the car in belief it would have been the last Camaro GM would make and it would increase in value. It never did increase and in fact, when down in value for as long as he owned it. He finally had it up for sale for over a year at a price that was above the market value. I had left my number with him and told him where I was at with my number. He finally called and sold me the car. Even when I was loading the car up he couldn't believe that the car had gone down in value.

Bang for the buck, I still think a 4th gen is a great deal and a great car. My Dad has a 2010 ss and I wouldn't want it if you gave it to me. I like the car but have no desire to own a new Camaro.

I grew up in the 80's so a 3rd gen will always be cool to me!

[sweetbmxrider]

I doubt that they will.

In the 60s these were just cars. Sure there were car collectors but nowhere NEAR like the way things are now. Many cars were crushed, especially during the gas crisis era. Original ZL1s and Superbirds (which people lust after now) sold very poorly and typically only moved off of the lot after deep discounts.

Nowadays you have people mothballing cars for the future. Look at all of us as an example- how many have a toy car and a daily? That just wasn't the case back then.

If anything will make a difference it will be when baby boomers start to pass away and these cars hit the market to a group of people that did not grow up with them. Tough to say how that will play out, but I'm guessing things may stay pretty much the same. There are plenty of guys out there who want but can't afford rare 60's stuff now.


The big question on my mind is what will happen to the "Hot Rod" culture. I think that's already heading south.

Well rat rods are kinda trendy but who knows how that will stand the test of time. Almost makes me think the pro-touring builds will be what the old cars will become. I'm sure you will always have the off of the assembly line collector crowd but I could see more people wanting great all around performance from a car with all of the creature comforts you can get nowadays.

I bought my 02 ss slp from the original owner. The sticker was $3x,xxx.00 ( I think) He told me that he paid near or list for the car when new. He bought the car in belief it would have been the last Camaro GM would make and it would increase in value. It never did increase and in fact, when down in value for as long as he owned it. He finally had it up for sale for over a year at a price that was above the market value. I had left my number with him and told him where I was at with my number. He finally called and sold me the car. Even when I was loading the car up he couldn't believe that the car had gone down in value.

Bang for the buck, I still think a 4th gen is a great deal and a great car. My Dad has a 2010 ss and I wouldn't want it if you gave it to me. I like the car but have no desire to own a new Camaro.

I grew up in the 80's so a 3rd gen will always be cool to me!

I guess that is what I was trying to say before. 4th gens are excellent performance for the money you spend. Stock/minor bolt on ls cars can run high 12s. That keeps its own against many cars on the road today for far less money. Sure its not as nice as them but we speed lovers can give that stuff up for the pit of the stomach feel these cars can deliver.

[WildBillyT]

Well rat rods are kinda trendy but who knows how that will stand the test of time. Almost makes me think the pro-touring builds will be what the old cars will become. I'm sure you will always have the off of the assembly line collector crowd but I could see more people wanting great all around performance from a car with all of the creature comforts you can get nowadays.



I guess that is what I was trying to say before. 4th gens are excellent performance for the money you spend. Stock/minor bolt on ls cars can run high 12s. That keeps its own against many cars on the road today for far less money. Sure its not as nice as them but we speed lovers can give that stuff up for the pit of the stomach feel these cars can deliver.

If I didn't move to a new house with a smaller driveway I never would have sold the green T/A. That car was tons of fun and parts are pretty cheap.

[Dudbird113]

My favorite is the v6 fbody owners that think their car is worth as much as the v8 version.

[Paul Huryk]

The big question on my mind is what will happen to the "Hot Rod" culture. I think that's already heading south.

Definitely. But some areas that have better weather (CA, south) and a lot more old cars riding around will keep the culture alive.

Here in NJ most folks would rather have a brand new BMW, Benz, or whatever as a "toy". Or if they can swing it, a Porsche, Corvette or some other car that they just get in and drive.

Time will tell if it dies or not.

[BonzoHansen]

I think it already is to some degree

[LTb1ow]

When the DI stuff starts losing any connection to original LSX/LQX stuff, I would assume the aftermarket will start to move away from them. That will be a huge blow I would guess cause everyone, their brother, and their aunt nut hugs LSX stuff these days.

But, the flip side is that you can take junkyard motors and run pretty fast times on them with no high dollar motor etc, which is hot rodding at its best IMO. The fact that the NHRA has become so damn expensive to race in is another issue that glaringly contradicts its origins.

But, what do I know.

[1320B4U]

Here in NJ most folks would rather have a brand new BMW, Benz, or whatever as a "toy". Or if they can swing it, a Porsche, Corvette or some other car that they just get in and drive.

Time will tell if it dies or not.

That's what I normally see. Growing up, we all had hoopties as we couldn't afford new cars..hence the wrenching on them to make them cool. Now every 18year old I see has a new(er) jetta, scion or wrx/evo....then graduate to a bmw w/tinted windows.

Great thing about rat rods is there's no conformity. Just like original hot rodding, the 'whatever it takes' mentality is what the builder strives to achieve....plus for resale value they come in a lot lower for others to get into the hobby if one cannot craft these cars from scratch. ...I see rat rodding continuing for awhile.

4th gen ls1 cars are definitely the best bang for the buck....light-years better than the 3rd gen in almost every aspect (imo I love the 3rd gen styling though).

[Paul Huryk]

When the DI stuff starts losing any connection to original LSX/LQX stuff, I would assume the aftermarket will start to move away from them. That will be a huge blow I would guess cause everyone, their brother, and their aunt nut hugs LSX stuff these days.

With the 15 plus years of LSX/LQX motors (how many millions did they make?) and the ease of making power, retrofitting them, or even buying as GM crate motors, I doubt they will die anytime soon. Just like the SBC or SBF. The LT!/LT4 motors are an example of waning aftermarket support although many SBC parts are pretty much the same item with a different part #.

But, the flip side is that you can take junkyard motors and run pretty fast times on them with no high dollar motor etc, which is hot rodding at its best IMO. The fact that the NHRA has become so damn expensive to race in is another issue that glaringly contradicts its origins.

I think that is the best part of these motors - they make huge power for cheap, are hard to blow up, and can fit in anything. Certainly beats the guys in the early 60's putting 348 tractor motors in their 3 window coupes.

But, what do I know.[/quote]

[WildBillyT]

Here in NJ most folks would rather have a brand new BMW, Benz, or whatever as a "toy". Or if they can swing it, a Porsche, Corvette or some other car that they just get in and drive.

Time will tell if it dies or not.

That's what I normally see. Growing up, we all had hoopties as we couldn't afford new cars..hence the wrenching on them to make them cool. Now every 18year old I see has a new(er) jetta, scion or wrx/evo....then graduate to a bmw w/tinted windows.

Great thing about rat rods is there's no conformity. Just like original hot rodding, the 'whatever it takes' mentality is what the builder strives to achieve....plus for resale value they come in a lot lower for others to get into the hobby if one cannot craft these cars from scratch. ...I see rat rodding continuing for awhile.

4th gen ls1 cars are definitely the best bang for the buck....light-years better than the 3rd gen in almost every aspect (imo I love the 3rd gen styling though).

The thing about hot rods is that they require a lot of work to build, which is not something a lot of people want to do these days. It's easier to pick up a factory ride and do a head/cam swap or something like that. I just don't see too many people wanting to put in the time.

I don't think that scene will go away completely, but it will shrink as time passes. I can't think of a single person under 40 with a hot rod with the exception of Hardcore Paul. In California it might be a different deal, but even then I'd imagine that it's waning a bit.

[LTb1ow]

The thing about hot rods is that they require a lot of work to build, which is not something a lot of people want to do these days. It's easier to pick up a factory ride and do a head/cam swap or something like that. I just don't see too many people wanting to put in the time.

I don't think that scene will go away completely, but it will shrink as time passes. I can't think of a single person under 40 with a hot rod with the exception of Hardcore Paul. In California it might be a different deal, but even then I'd imagine that it's waning a bit.

What defines a hot rod?

[sweetbmxrider]

What defines a hot rod?

A dictionary :nick:

[BonzoHansen]

it's slowly dying., you see less cruise nights, and less cars at the ones that still exist.

[WildBillyT]

What defines a hot rod?

I am just running with the common definition of 50's or earlier car with a 350 or something.

Type hot rod into google, hit images, ignore Samberg. That's what I'm speaking of.

[Slow-V6]

For me personally I have owned an F-body for the past 14 yrs. To be honest I am getting sick of them. I love my Trans am but my C5 and even the Cobra are better made cars and are more comfortable. Guess I am just getting old. The Trans am looks bad ass, but when I drive it it feels cheap and old. I never use to get that feeling in them and I have logged a ton of miles in F-bodies driving up and back from Virginia Beach for 8 yrs every other weekend when I was stationed there in the Navy. I am honestly thinking of selling my T/A. I already told some close family and friends that if they want it let me know.