Tires wearing unevenly

[qwikz28]

Guys-

My girlfriend drives an 06 Lexus IS250 awd. Car has been well maintained, but gets a lot of abuse as she commutes from Jersey City to her job in Newark. Lexus recently rebuilt her engine so we decided to spend the money to fix up the rest of the car. First step is the awful highway speed vibration. I took the car to a reputable local shop for a balance and alignment and they said the alignment is off, but the balance is fine. Since the alignment isn't causing the vibration, they checked the tires and found the fronts to be wearing unevenly. Essentially, if you run your hand along the tread, it isn't smooth. The driver's side is worst, passenger side less noticeable, and rears are fine. To best describe it, it seems some of the blocks of tread are either sticking out on the ends or worn out unevenly. Pictures don't pick up the variances, but the tires are Hankook Ventus V2. The tires were purchased at Pepboys and they are confident its the alignment. They are willing to warranty the tires and I will humor them and do the alignment and replace the tires since they are offering, but I want to ensure the problem really is that, or else is something related to the poor quality tires since I will still pay installation and the price is pro-rated.

Now, my question is, how can I diagnose this? She replaced her shocks and struts recently and the suspension definitely feels solid. No clunks, everything is tight. Will an alignment cause this? Perhaps the cut up Newark roads? Perhaps a worn suspension bushing somewhere?

Thanks.

[Blackbirdws6]

Any noise from the wheel bearings?

[redsoxsstink]

IMO sounds like a alignment. possibly a bad driving habit, but i doubt it. could have knocked the alignment out hitting potholes, i know i knocked mine out this winter

[sweetbmxrider]

You're talking about a leading edge? How many miles on it?

[BonzoHansen]

kind of sounds like shocks/struts, maybe some other things. I'd need to see it but your description sounds like cupping/shock wear. You typically see that in rear tires more than front, especially if tires are not rotated properly. I think of a bearing was bad enough to hurt tires that bearing would be screaming. I'd assume that to be less of an issue with modern bearing packs vs. old school bearings like my Z has.balancing also does not usually cause tire wear because I'd think the constant vibration over time would be annoying and corrected but I guess it can't help.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27587&stc=1&d=1284415556

i don't know if those cars have any kind of issues with bushings, etc that might be involved. adam might

No comment needed on pep boys...

severe example that I'd look real hard at shocks & rotation:
http://www2.griffin.net/TireWear.jpg

[qwikz28]

The car got an alignment last year and the shocks were replaced the year before. Nonetheless, it pulls pretty hard to the right. If you take your hands off for 2 or 3 seconds, you are in the other lane. No bearing noise to report. Tire shop said they put the two fronts which show the cupping on a balancing machine and said they are fine. Only problem I see with the car is the alignment. Car has 114k miles with the last three years on inner-city roads. Tires have about 10k on them.

The wear definitely looks like cupping. Can an alignment cause cupping? If cupping really is limited to worn suspension, and her suspension is fine, I have to write it off as bad tires. Which isn't really a bad thing, I suppose, since that means nothing is wrong with the car.

[coolmanvette75]

The hands off the wheel thing sounds like a Caster issue, which depending on the car may or may not be adjustable when being aligned. The uneven wear can be a few different things. I see a lot of oil field trucks at work that have tires like the ones Bonzo posted. Most of the time shocks and lack of rotation are the causes in my case. Even if they have been replaced I would still check them. Depending on the brand they could still go out fairly quickly depending on abuse.

[MyFirstZ]

Even though the tires balanced you can still have a bent wheel. They will balance out but almost hop down the road and can most definitely cause a cupped tire. I'm assuming its a relatively lower profile to that's cupping? like a 40.

When they balanced them they should of visually watched em spin and checked.

But an alignment normally wouldnt cause coupling usually just wear. But if it is pulling that hard it could be a combo of issues causing it.

[BonzoHansen]

how bad does the car vibrate?

[qwikz28]

Even though the tires balanced you can still have a bent wheel. They will balance out but almost hop down the road and can most definitely cause a cupped tire. I'm assuming its a relatively lower profile to that's cupping? like a 40.

When they balanced them they should of visually watched em spin and checked.

But an alignment normally wouldnt cause coupling usually just wear. But if it is pulling that hard it could be a combo of issues causing it.

You are right. They are a low profile tire (45 series, but still pretty thin). I should have mentioned before, she actually even cracked one of her wheels and had a local jersey city guy weld it up. The wheels certainly have taken a ton of abuse and it is more than likely that they are bent. I wrote it off once he said it balanced out. I didn't think a significantly bent wheel could balance out.

how bad does the car vibrate?

It's hard to quantify, but it really isn't terrible anymore (although she can't stand it). What's strange is it improved significantly after it was at the dealer for the engine rebuild about a month ago. It used to be that she couldn't crest 60mph because the car would shake violently. Unfortunately, we don't know what changed that caused it to go away.

FFB- Should I try a rotation to see what happens?

[MyFirstZ]

Ya I currently have a customers car that sat for a while and we put new tires on and they even passed roadforcing but still had a vibration. Did a rim runout on the wheels and found that it failed even though no physical bends were seen.

[BonzoHansen]

Jake, a bad tire or wheel can usually be isolated by rotating & test driving. Rotate front to rear, drive. Same vibration? then not a wheel/tire. Changes? you have a wheel assembly problem.

but you have known bad tires so you need to fix that first. A bent rim should be visible on the balancer to a technician paying attention.

factory wheels?

[qwikz28]

Jake, a bad tire or wheel can usually be isolated by rotating & test driving. Rotate front to rear, drive. Same vibration? then not a wheel/tire. Changes? you have a wheel assembly problem.

but you have known bad tires so you need to fix that first. A bent rim should be visible on the balancer to a technician paying attention.

factory wheels?

Wheels are factory. Tires are definitely being replaced, but only after I isolate the issue causing them to go bad. It would be foolish to put new tires on it only for them to go bad shortly after.

I'll take the car to a shop to check for bent wheels and then rotate them back and forth and see how that affects it. I suppose I could also see if that causes the rear wheels to begin cupping after being driven on the front of the car for a few weeks.

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll try those first and see from there.

[BonzoHansen]

if they start cupping in days you have major league problems. wear like that typically takes many miles to develop

[qwikz28]

if they start cupping in days you have major league problems. wear like that typically takes many miles to develop

I see. Thanks, Scott.

[sweetbmxrider]

You said the struts and shocks were replaced recently. How many miles were these tires on the car before they were replaced?

[BigAls87Z28]

Irregular wear and pull = alignment issue. Caster won't cause tire wear, but out of spec camber or toe will.
Alignments are good for maybe six months. If she's driving on JC roads, six weeks.
I assume that PB is also shaking the car down and making sure that any ball joint, control arm, tie rod, or any other front end parts are tight and no play.

Once the tires get balanced, they will be able to tell if the wheel is jacked or not. If the the machine asks to put more than a certain amount of weight to the wheel, it's going to be deemed damaged.

[qwikz28]

You said the struts and shocks were replaced recently. How many miles were these tires on the car before they were replaced?
The tires were replaced after the struts and shocks. Strangely, she said the car was smooth until she put these Hankooks on.

Irregular wear and pull = alignment issue. Caster won't cause tire wear, but out of spec camber or toe will.
Alignments are good for maybe six months. If she's driving on JC roads, six weeks.
I assume that PB is also shaking the car down and making sure that any ball joint, control arm, tie rod, or any other front end parts are tight and no play.

Once the tires get balanced, they will be able to tell if the wheel is jacked or not. If the the machine asks to put more than a certain amount of weight to the wheel, it's going to be deemed damaged.
The previous tire shop saw the tires and concluded that was likely causing the vibration and told me to just warranty the tires. Pepboys won't look at it, they are writing it off as an alignment issue. That took the entire day I had the car.

[BonzoHansen]

wear like that isn't a tire warranty issue, they are right. and the warn tires will cause a vibration.

[qwikz28]

Warranty still covers it. And I agree that the tires are likely causing a vibration, I am trying to find out what is causing the tires to wear out that way.

[BigAls87Z28]

If they warranty the tires, that's a gift.
Get the tires replaced and have the alignment checked. If the front end checks out and the tires balance out without adding two pounds of meta to each wheel, then you are in good shape.

I'd probably guess that the camber/toe is so shot out from driving over these roads that she's been wearing them out prematurely. I'd also guess that she drives a bit aggressively considering the type of car and people's general lack of giving a **** about driving.

[qwikz28]

If they warranty the tires, that's a gift.
Get the tires replaced and have the alignment checked. If the front end checks out and the tires balance out without adding two pounds of meta to each wheel, then you are in good shape.

I'd probably guess that the camber/toe is so shot out from driving over these roads that she's been wearing them out prematurely. I'd also guess that she drives a bit aggressively considering the type of car and people's general lack of giving a **** about driving.

Al- She certainly doesn't drive aggressively but she does a lot of low speed maneuvers (parallel parking, etc.) so I figured that could cause it. For example, she lives on the end of a tight stone paver street. I imagine parallel parking on that road would cause some nasty tire wear. She also didn't rotate them.

Anyone know a good front end shop in North Jersey that can give this car a once over before I replace the tires? I don't want to think about it anymore.

[qwikz28]

Forgot to update this thread, but we got the car fixed last week. Scott's thread in the Lounge reminded me.

My buddy who owns a used car lot started using a new mechanic so I asked him to repair an exhaust leak and see if he could find the cause of the tire wear. He noticed that one tire was the wrong size. The car had 3 tires in stock size 225/45R17, and the rear driver's side had a 245/45R17. With the AWD, he says that was causing the car to bounce around and kill the tires. I called up Pep Boys, got 4 new tires mounted and balanced free of charge (except she wanted to upgrade from Hankooks to Continentals, so I paid the difference). Took the car to a different shop to get aligned immediately after. Car drives smooth and straight now.

Such a simple mistake, but it took a year and a half for someone to catch on.