Not a Ford Fan but..........

[NJSPEEDER]

The new GT is a pretty car. Just unveiled, 600hp turbo 6cyl. Expected price tag around $150-200k would put it on the low end of super car costs and in the middle of the field for mid-engined for performance.

It will be interesting to see what the world, especially Ferrari and other more established sports car marques make of the new offering.

http://jalopnik.com/ford-gt-this-is-it-1678893649

[Blackbirdws6]

Mixed feelings on the engine but I'm sure it will perform. Great looking car and I love this particular shot (window from the rear wheel). It would have been pretty sick to see them do a TT flat crank V8 as a nice FU to Ferrari.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/g5o6mjkr5n1pbsnfduax.png

[ThoR294]

meh... I'll take this one
http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/ford/gt/2006/oem/2006_ford_gt_coupe_base_fq_oem_2_500.jpg

[The_Bishop]

The resemblance is uncanny:

http://home.comcast.net/~The_Bishop/pig.jpg

[ThoR294]

The resemblance is uncanny:

http://home.comcast.net/~The_Bishop/pig.jpg

:kneeslap::kneeslap::kneeslap:

[NJSPEEDER]

Seems like the styling teams of modern super cars are 75% made up of aerodynamicists any more. The result is some....ummm.....we will call them unique shapes.

Already been reading some interesting discussions based on the pictures on a few forums. Apparently the big duct from teh side to rear is supposed to work in 3 phases. First, as it passes the smaller vent behind/next to the engine the high speed air will act as a siphon creating low pressure that pulls hot air away from the engine compartment. Secondly the air will be split by the large rear wing creating down force and the wing acting it it will also increase air velocity for effect number 3. The third part is having the high speed air chop off the deck will induce vortices lowering drag as well as placing high speed air above the level of the diffuser which increases its effectiveness by making the boundary layer between the high speed air above the car and the lower speed/density air under the car more defined and sucking the rear into the road.

Ford has had a lot of success with the Ecoboost V6 in endurance racing already. It has several wins in the Daytona Prototype class using a lot of factory parts at the 700-750hp level. I know the V6 is going to catch some flack but for packaging its smaller and lighter and don't forget that even the likes of McLaren have used V6's recently with great success.

I fully expect the same thing as the last GT. Rich guys standing in line, paying way over sticker price, to be the first to stash one in the garage never to be used as intended or wrapped around a neighborhood tree because money can buy cars but not driver skill.

[wrong generation]

wonder if these will be another 2 year limited run or if they will make this a reg production car now.

[NJSPEEDER]

I hope they stick with it and evolve the car this time. The pace of advancement in the world of supercars is astronomical. So many advances in materials, engine and suspension controls, and even the dynamic handling controls seem to jump by multiple generations year over year. I know Ford isn't sitting on the cutting edge of these things and I think that puts them in a unique market position if they choose to pursue it. By acting as basically a junior or entry level supercar there is a much larger market segment to participate in than shooting for the $1mill and higher cars that the big names seem to be aiming for lately. Think of them in terms of being like Porsche 911, a fairly prestigious car at a price noticably above that of the Corvettes and GTRs of the world but well below even the cheapest Ferrari or Lamborghini. Ford can add some level of exclusivity since they will in no way have the capacity to produce as many per year as Porsche but without the snobbery that comes with the super obnoxious price tag of a million dollar car.

We will see how Ford handles it. Supposedly the commitment to the World Endurance Championship, including LeMans support, is for 5 years. The sanction allows cars to participate up to 3 years after production ends so yes, a 2 year run is a possibility. I just hope they see the opportunity beyond that.

I also hope they drag one down to Daytona so I can see it in person next week :)

[sweetbmxrider]

I love the styling. They nailed the rear airducting that gm flopped on big time. Really looks great.

[LTb1ow]

Meh.

Now the NSX...
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--p8f6cMFG--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/nzsiis5v4tiq6bwgu35n.jpg
dat ass
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vq5Ee_pN--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/lk7szoymibfgl10rnghw.jpg

[NJSPEEDER]

The original NSX is iconic because of the beautiful simplicity of its lines. The new one......not so much. Not bad looking, not a beauty queen. The profile and dimensions almost make me think it should be a next generation R8 concept more than a Honda.

[sweetbmxrider]

http://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech.com-vbulletin/640x346/80-10906187_10204594435013717_4492768160563691061_n_0 6f1c13b44f265be8618a2f36b95f69cb28e44b5.jpg

[Paul Huryk]

Considering the price, placement (at the top of the Ford lineup), and competition, the obvious choice was a V8 with some boost - like the previous generation.

Even though the turbo V6 they are putting in has a good amount of power, it is still a 6, Ferrari puts 8s and 12s in their cars, Lambo 10s and 12s, Audi 8s, Benz 8s, BMW 8s...

Obviously development on a short run car like this is high, but adding another $25K to have the flat plane V8 with a pair of turbos is not going to shun buyers.

[Blackbirdws6]

NSX looks like an Acura and I'm sure it will perform well. Articles are swirling around regarding the demise of Ford V8s but time will tell if that's true.

[BigAls87Z28]

The GT is about flexing Ford's engineering and design prowess. It is not stuffing the biggest engine they have, slapping some turbos on it, and calling it a day. This is not a retro throwback. This is Ford's technological showcase.

[Blackbirdws6]

The GT is about flexing Ford's engineering and design prowess. It is not stuffing the biggest engine they have, slapping some turbos on it, and calling it a day. This is not a retro throwback. This is Ford's technological showcase.

They couldn't showcase their technical prowess by using a special version of the 5.0 with a nice flat plane crank, high RPM and nice turbos to compete with Mclaren, Ferrari, etc? While I'm sure the 3.5TT ecoboost is derived more from their racing efforts and less the more common version, a V8 would have been better. But hey, what do I know. I can't afford it and I'm sure they will sell every single one built.

[Featherburner]

http://horsepowerkings.com/sources-ford-to-discontinue-v8-motors-in-mustang-f150-after-20187/

[sweetbmxrider]

The GT is about flexing Ford's engineering and design prowess. It is not stuffing the biggest engine they have, slapping some turbos on it, and calling it a day. This is not a retro throwback. This is Ford's technological showcase.

They put a truck motor in a sports car. Its sad that a TT V6 is a truck motor :|

[Paul Huryk]

The GT is about flexing Ford's engineering and design prowess. It is not stuffing the biggest engine they have, slapping some turbos on it, and calling it a day. This is not a retro throwback. This is Ford's technological showcase.

Then they failed already. Their showcase is one of getting 80% there, not 100% as one with expect with their supercar.

Considering they had to engineer the body, chassis, suspension, and drivetrain (other than the engine), why would they use a pedestrian V6, even one tuned to 600hp? If it was an option for a lower tier model (out of two), it would make sense - but for a car that is probably going to crest $200k, not a great choice.

Acura learned with the original NSX how a subpar engine can kill a great car (over time) - the first few years the car sold well with the 3.0L motor, then competitors started matching or exceeding the power level. By the time they discontinued the car in 2003 it was underpowered with the 290hp 3.2L and you have to put forced induction to get any real power gains.

[NJSPEEDER]

Commentary about big cube motors is just talk about making what is supposed to be a super car into a muscle car. Yeah, Ford is an American brand so we do normally expect them to drop in the big inch power plant and grunt like Tim Allen. Al nailed the reality of super car building, engineering show case.

Keep it simple, look at the McLaren, yeah it's a V8, but only displacing 3.8 liters and only making 20ish more HP (from memory) than Ford's V6 before the hybrid system is added in. Or look at the new Porsche 918, once again 8 cyl's but only sitting on I think it is 4.5 liters and if memory serves making the same 600hp that the Ford does before the hybrid system is tacked on. And in both of these cases we are talking about sticker prices in the range if 1.5 mill. Even if we talk Lambo's you are already looking at doubling the sticker price and displacement to end up with maybe 100 more HP.

I think Ford nailed it. they created yet another entry level super car that is going to run with if not run rings around a pile of cars with big name pedigrees and double or triple the price tag.

[Blackbirdws6]

I was not suggesting to drop in a 6L+ V8 with a pair of big ass turbos for all the highway roll action. A smaller displacement, high revving V8 with a couple pairs of turbos would have been the home run in my mind.

[sweetbmxrider]

They should have stayed with a blower.

[Paul Huryk]

Tim,

This is an easy one...

Take the new 5.2L V8 that Ford is putting into the new GT350, add some turbos and easy 700hp (motor plus 8psi). Not going to double the price of the car, nor will it be "too big". Than even back it down to 4.8 to 5.0L and still get the number without the 25psi boost the TT V6 is going to need to hit 650hp.

I don't think the McLaren motor is "all that" - you can get 650hp out of a GN 3.8L, without the DOHC, 2 extra cylinders, or modern FI system.





Commentary about big cube motors is just talk about making what is supposed to be a super car into a muscle car. Yeah, Ford is an American brand so we do normally expect them to drop in the big inch power plant and grunt like Tim Allen. Al nailed the reality of super car building, engineering show case.

Keep it simple, look at the McLaren, yeah it's a V8, but only displacing 3.8 liters and only making 20ish more HP (from memory) than Ford's V6 before the hybrid system is added in. Or look at the new Porsche 918, once again 8 cyl's but only sitting on I think it is 4.5 liters and if memory serves making the same 600hp that the Ford does before the hybrid system is tacked on. And in both of these cases we are talking about sticker prices in the range if 1.5 mill. Even if we talk Lambo's you are already looking at doubling the sticker price and displacement to end up with maybe 100 more HP.

I think Ford nailed it. they created yet another entry levelhttp://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/#) super car that is going to run with if not run rings around a pile of cars with big name pedigrees and double or triple the price tag.

[NJSPEEDER]

Ford has proven the reliability of the V6 under racing conditions already. They have won several races, including the 24 Hours of Daytona with it already.

The boost level is immaterial when the engine is built to it. If they built the 5.2 with a combo for 20psi the conversation would be how silly the lame 8psi version is.

Dimensional the V6 is shorter in both height and length and narrower, add in the dry sump and the height difference is even more dramatic. There is also the matter of 100+ lbs extra that the supercharged V8 weighs. Keep in mind that these factors mean way more to the physics of a sub 3k lbs pure sports car than they do in a nearly 4k lbs, 4 seater pony car.

As far as an engine not being impressive because you can make more power with something else, that is a conversation that will go on forever. If you have the check book for it you can make a phone call and buy 1000hp SBC's and thats without even having the benefit of overhead cams. There is always a way to make more power. However that does not always translate into production cars, be it packaging, reliability, cost, or some other factor.

[Blackbirdws6]

What is the weight difference of a V8/Blower vs V6 with a couple turbos? Just curious.

[NJSPEEDER]

It's supposed to be in the 100-125lbs range. The V8 will also always sit at least 2 inches higher because of the way the block is skirted. The turbos are really small, as in they seriously look silly hanging there but they manage to get the boost and power out of them reliably.

I was trying to find the link, there were some rather lengthy discussions about this when Ford switched from the V8 to the Ecoboost V6 in Daytona Prototypes.

[redsoxsstink]

It's supposed to be in the 100-125lbs range. The V8 will also always sit at least 2 inches higher because of the way the block is skirted. The turbos are really small, as in they seriously look silly hanging there but they manage to get the boost and power out of them reliably.

I was trying to find the link, there were some rather lengthy discussions about this when Ford switched from the V8 to the Ecoboost V6 in Daytona Prototypes.

i remember reading somewhere the turbos are primarily the same Garrett units used on the 1.8t VWs

[Paul Huryk]

I should have been a bit more clear about the reason I wrote what I did.

If the only thing Ford was interested in was the lightest engine weight, then they probably achieved it.

I'm not doubting the reliability of these motors - then again in a race motor, you don't have an implied and enforceable warranty like something off the showroom floor.

Boost level does matter - too small a motor and too much boost give some really awkward power curves - the best example is the ultra Supras that dominate dyno racing - nothing until 5k, then all hell breaks loose until 9500. If you look at the high hp turbo cars, they all aim for max CI before they build - EVOs are punched to 2.3l. Subarus go for the 2.5L instead of the 2.0L, and the almighty GTR is probably going to be 4.1L. Cubic inches can lower boost required or revs to reach a certain power level. It also can increase volumetric efficiency in many cases.

A 650hp 3.5l V6 is going to need somewhere around 25psi. A 3.8L version might only need 21psi. there is only going to be so much upside on a 25psi motor to add more power - you won't be able to get 1,000hp out of the motor like some of the last generation GTs were getting with turbos out of the 5.4.

I would think the logical step for Ford would have been to go with a 4.7L (destroked 5.2L GT350) with a twin turbo setup good for 10psi to get up to the 675hp level. Power curve flat as you could get with a lot of upside potential in terms of upping the power.

Ford has proven the reliability of the V6 under racing conditions already. They have won several races, including the 24 Hours of Daytona with it already.

The boost level is immaterial when the engine is built to it. If they built the 5.2 with a combo for 20psi the conversation would be how silly the lame 8psi version is.

Dimensional the V6 is shorter in both height and length and narrower, add in the dry sump and the height difference is even more dramatic. There is also the matter of 100+ lbs extra that the supercharged V8 weighs. Keep in mind that these factors mean way more to the physics of a sub 3k lbs pure sports car than they do in a nearly 4k lbs, 4 seater pony car.

As far as an engine not being impressive because you can make more power with something else, that is a conversation that will go on forever. If you have the check book for it you can make a phone call and buy 1000hp SBC's and thats without even having the benefit of overhead cams. There is always a way to make more power. However that does not always translate into production cars, be it packaging, reliability, cost, or some other factor.

[NastyEllEssWon]

600 some horsepower out of a six banger is nothing to take lightly. Considering how well those eco-boosts perform already, tossing one over top of the transaxle is a totally different story. I look forward to seeing one in person in the future, Ive always been a fan of Fords GT40ish design styles

[BigAls87Z28]

Wow, so much hate for a car that makes 600hp+hp and they are doing it out of their showcase engine.
The 3.5TT EB engine is the new 5.0 for Ford. It is something that they have rebuilt their brand around and it is fitting that a high tech, special version of it is being used by their special supercar.
They COULD have done just taken the GT350's engine and dropped some turbos on it, but that shows Ford checked a box for what is expected of them.

The 3.5TT EB will be replacing the 6.2 liter V8 in the Raptor as well, but I don't see anyone complaining.
Why? Cause Ford used it for the Baja 1000 and a tons of other endurance races to prove the legitimacy of it.
And, in the end, if you are still butt-hurt about Ford using a V6 and want an American mid-engine sports car, then wait for this magical Chevrolet supercar coming.

[LTb1ow]

Ecoboosts get great reviews when used to actually tow. lulz.

[Blackbirdws6]

Would anyone really have made these comments if there was some special V8TT in the car? Just ask yourself that.

[NJSPEEDER]

Like most people I normally take the "it's a proven engine in racing" thing very lightly. That's because most often the "engine" in question is really just the block and no other part in any way resembles anything that will ever be seen on the a production line. NASCAR is a perfect example, Toyota proudly proclaims the prowess of their mighty NASCAR engine, meanwhile that is the only place in the whole world the entire engine exists. Ford however has gone in the exact opposite direction. They went out to see wha they could do with assembly line parts. In the Daytona Prototype engine the only differences were bearing, rings and pistons. On the top end they changed cams and intake but used ported factory castings. They even did all the original testing using a street car computer (later switched to real racing controllers with live feedback back telemetry, more data logging points, higher speed data output......a better computer)

I think Ford is really onto something with this car. They will have to build it for 2-4 years to get 100% into all the series they have talked about. I really hope they stick to it beyond that. I hope they stick with it for a good long time. For any American racing fan there is a bit of pride to seeing one of our much maligned domestic brands go kick the Europeans snobby asses right of the podium. :)

[sweetbmxrider]

My friend's ecoboost bent a rod, bone stock no towing or anything.

[BigAls87Z28]

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

[Blackbirdws6]

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/o/image/1389/99/1389993719463.jpg

Way too much $$.

[sweetbmxrider]

The v6 will certainly swindle the money from most potential customers' pockets!

[NJSPEEDER]

This week at Geneva, Ford alluded to the cost being near 400k.
Thoughts?

I think that will land right in the middle of the speculator market. With the way prices of the last GT are climbing I'm sure there will be a high percentage of 10 original mile garage queens hitting the market about a decade after delivery.

[BigAls87Z28]

The v6 will certainly swindle the money from most potential customers' pockets!

400k is much higher than I thought and at only 250 units a year, that means very exclusive.
NOW I kind of think that they should have used that 5.2 liter engine, but this EBV6 is different enough from the other EB engines that makes it exclusive. Issue with making a 400k car means that you are going above the price range of cars like the new 661hp 488GTB from Ferrari with a new 3.9 twin turbo V8, the 650 and 675LT (number designating the power) 3.8 twin turbo V8 from McLaren, the new Lambo Huracan with a revised V10 making over 600, and on the very low end, the 911 Turbo S, Nissan GTR, and Corvette Z06 that are WELL under the 400k price ticket.

I understand that it's a full on carbon fiber tub with CF panels and all sorts of race-spec ****, but 400k puts you right with cars like the Ferrari F12, Lambo Aventador LP700-4/SV, Bentley's various twin turbo V8 and V12 engines that are race spec.

250-300k should be the prime spot for this car.

[NJSPEEDER]

weren't they originally targeting some where in the 150k range?

Is there anything coming out of Geneva about the Focus RS? So far all i have seen online is a bunch of fluff pieces basically touting the corporate spin sheet specs and language.

[BigAls87Z28]

What else do you need to know, outside of price?

[sweetbmxrider]

How many cup holders and power ports?

[Blackbirdws6]

They will surely still sell every single one of them.

[BonzoHansen]

How many cup holders and power ports?

combined, 11

[NJSPEEDER]

I am curious if the announced production run is supposed to include any planned racing program. Not sure what the FIA requires sold as "street cars" for GT3 since it is supposed to be production based.

Figure if they do a manufacturer team that is at least 4 cars, 2 on track and 2 back up. Further cars if they plan developmental testing and even more cars if there are going to be customer teams.

I hope they go racing, just wondering if such an endeavor would absolutely eliminate any chance of any of these cars seeing the street.

[WildBillyT]

They will surely still sell every single one of them.

That's my thinking as well. I didn't even realize the 2000's GT was so rare as I've seen so many of them.

[BonzoHansen]

That's my thinking as well. I didn't even realize the 2000's GT was so rare as I've seen so many of them.

and from what i know those cars have all appreciated in price. actually were good investments. which will help sell these new ones.

[BigAls87Z28]

I am curious if the announced production run is supposed to include any planned racing program. Not sure what the FIA requires sold as "street cars" for GT3 since it is supposed to be production based.

Figure if they do a manufacturer team that is at least 4 cars, 2 on track and 2 back up. Further cars if they plan developmental testing and even more cars if there are going to be customer teams.

I hope they go racing, just wondering if such an endeavor would absolutely eliminate any chance of any of these cars seeing the street.

They have alluded that they will take the GT racing, but I don't know what that has to do with the RS.

[ThoR294]

wasn't the 2006 ford GT like $150,000?

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

wasn't the 2006 ford GT like $150,000?

Yes.

[ThoR294]

wow. so they doubled the price on the car? daaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyummmmmmmmm if that is true lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

Those of you guys that were unsure about this car or not....heres a vid of it started up and revving a bit



https://www.facebook.com/Shmee150/videos/891536954214894/

Its pretty sweet :D

[Blackbirdws6]

Dat soot

[LTb1ow]

dat trailer doe, forget the car

[sweetbmxrider]

Def a sweet trailer!