IROCZman15
01-12-2015, 04:55 PM
The purpose of this whole thread initially was to ask for advice on a wiring problem I had (buzzing relay), but as I was looking into the relays in the car… I quickly located exactly what was causing the problem. I also had planned on writing up this thread to put my list of winter repairs, adjustments, modifications, and projects for the Camaro. Also, I’m still trying to diagnose an intermittent knock sensor issue, so perhaps someone can shed some light on that topic for me.
Here’s the general list of tasks:
- fix gap between hood and nose (done)
- fix passenger door gap adjust and shim accordingly (done)
- MAF burnoff relay wiring connector(done)
- remove charcoal canister and lines (not doing)
- minor adjustments to the sound system wiring and amplifier wires
- repair a damaged thread on the Optima red top battery with thread-maker epoxy (done. new bolts)
- fix center console screws that loosen up (done)
- figure out some design/fabric to have made and installed on front seats for seat-belt retainers
- cut ¼ coil off rear coil springs (or possibly just remove isolators and use heater hose) (done)
- flush power steering fluid and system (done)
- replace speedometer gears in transmission tail-shaft (done)
- New rubber isolators to better secure radiator in the grill mount (done)
- diagnose and fix the intermittent Knock Sensor problem (done)
- grease all joints, oil change, oil filter etc (done)
- untwist and remount the brake system T-fitting on the rear axle, bleed brake system again (done)
- pass NJ state inspection march 2015 (done, passed)
- new on-car adjustable panhard bar and upper mount (done)
- new adjustable rear Lower Control arms (done)
- new front and rear swaybars (done, reused existing but all new mounts)
- wet 125hp nitrous oxide kit and purge valve
- tighten header and y-pipe bolts (done)
- dial in rear suspension (done)
- wax wheels (done)
- redo spark plug wires using separators (done)
- new Hooker cat-back exhaust .. ordered, not yet arrived
- full blown wash, clay, polish, wax job
So, I was out in the garage last week making this list and decided that the two most important issues I had to get sorted out would be the buzzing relay and the knock sensor.
Buzzing relay:
I have had this problem for a while, and it’s been so infrequently, I would almost forget it existed. On the driver’s side of the car at the firewall, there is a cluster of three relays. The wiring and plastic wiring loom had been hiding the problem... which became immediately apparent as soon as I began to untangle the wire loom in the area. I have had a buzzing coming from the MAF burnoff relay (#11078907) the one with four wires (orange, orange, black, blue). I quickly discovered that where the wires connect to the male plastic connector, the sheathing had been damaged and the blue and black wires were completely exposed… This would cause them to sometimes make contact as the car was traveling down the road, causing the buzzing sound.
While diagnosing this I also noticed that it looks as if I had a similar issue years ago (probably 6/7 years ago when I had been painting the engine bay) where the wires had been exposed going into the MAF power relay (#7125) with orange, tan/white, black/white, blue, and red wires. Looks like I just temporarily doctored it up with some electrical tape... and then forgot to go back and take care of the wires properly. Now, since I know my problem and source of the buzzing I am going to fix it correctly. So, I will have to order some new wiring harness connectors then cut the existing wires out and solder everything in properly. The space that the wiring has to bee is a bit tight and hard to access, so I’ll have to do it all as neatly and efficiently as possible. I will be ordering two connectors... one for the MAF burnoff and one for the MAF power relay. I’ve found the connectors online here…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/370591717721?lpid=82&chn=ps and http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/200849797209?lpid=82&chn=ps and http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360439337920?lpid=82&chn=ps
but was wondering if anyone knows of any better ones that came from GM or a more reputable brand. I don’t want to wire this all up just to find it’s a cheaply made part and not working properly or causing other problems. The one for the Fuel pump appears to be holding up just fine and I won’t be replacing it since I don’t need to
remember, these were kinda buried and hidden by the plastic wire loom so it didn’t initially catch my eye until I started undoing the snakepit of wires in the area.. also I was embarrassed to see how FILTHY stuff in that area was:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2952.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2953.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2957.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2965.jpg
.
The second major issue I am troubleshooting is an issue with the knock sensor.
I’ve had this issue for years and years and have just learned to drive a certain way to avoid it. Before anyone mentions it… I am 99.99999% sure that I am not having any spark-knock, any detonation, or pinging coming from the engine. I have not heard the classic sounds that go along with those conditions. Several years ago I replaced the knock sensor too (one from NAPA)... where as I should have probably paid more $ for a reputable OEM GM sensor instead. The sensor seems to get tripped when I am under max load ... basically WOT for more than 5-8 seconds ... in usually 2,3,4 gear (performance rebuilt and upgraded 700r-4 transmission) Or sometimes it will click the knock sensor if I am holding the throttle at a stationary position while cruising on the highway. To avoid this, I have just developed a good smooth rhythm to keeping the throttle fluctuating while on the highway. I read the codes years ago when it would activate the knock sensor too. I know it is certainly the knock sensor because under load accelerating at WOT I can feel the engine backing off on power... pulling away timing to prevent it from “detonating” yet there are no internal engine noises that I can feel or hear. The timing will retard to what the manual says is about 20 deg off and the SES check engine dashboard light comes on. All I do then is coast to a stop, turn the car off for 10 seconds and then turn it back on. The SES check engine light will go off and normal engine attitude is restored. Since almost every time I park the car in the garage I disconnect the battery completely, it clears the codes. I also run 93 octane in the car religiously, so I don’t think it’s a fuel octane issue. I’d be very grateful if anyone here could shed a bit of light on this or is able to recommend some further diagnosis and treatment so that I don’t have to “float” the accelerator pedal and so that I can feel comfortable that I will be able to make a full pull at the local track without activating the knock sensor at the 1/8th mile mark. Thanks for any help/input on this. I have searched this forum many times but didn’t find an answer I needed really….. especially since I hear no signs of spark knock, run proper octane fuel, plugs read clean, etc.
The other little things I mentioned at the beginning of this post are all really not too complicated and are things I can handle on my own. The bottom couple items on the list are where things get a little more expensive and are upgrades instead of issues to repair.
I know for sure I will be doing the on-car adjustable panhard bar, upper mount, and poly bushings. Gotta decide between UMI, BMR, Spohn, global west, PST, and Hotchkis. The same goes for the adjustable rear lower control arms too. Might go with one poly bushing and a del-sphere roto joint type on the other side. Still researching this... and there are a TON of good write-ups in the suspension section which is great. I also think I'll need to get the LCA relocation brackets since my LCA's are NOT level wit the ground. I am getting that the bolt-hole is at 8" where the LCA mounts to the body, and its at 9.5" where it mounts to the axle. (center of bolt-hole to floor measurement)
Also, I was under the car super quick and decided to quickly get a measurement on my front and rear swaybars. I checked with a ruler and even wrapped a piece of string to get the circumference of each bar. Then doing the proper math to find diameter resulted in a very close reading to what I got with the straight edged ruler. Oddly my results were a bit shocking to me, as I got the Front bar to be 36.60mm and the Rear bar to be 23.88 mm Again, that’s a quick hasty measurement so it’s not precise.. but that got me thinking... did my car come with the big sway bar package? I went inside and pulled out my build sheet to locate RPO codes of “1SB” (Iroc Option package 2) and “B4Z” (Iroc-Z performance package). I searched around on this site and elsewhere and wasn’t able to find out exactly what was included in those packages. Specifically I was looking to find out what size swaybars the car came with and still wears. Does anybody know what size bars I have if I have the BZ4 package. For a proper measurement, I will be buying a length measurement caliper tomorrow to check their diameter properly. It would be totally awesome if I had the big bars already and jut needed to buy new bushings and endlinks instead. Anybody?
Lastly, after I pass NJ state inspection and if $ allows, I’d like to install a NOS 75-125 hp wet shot of nitrous oxide on the car. This is especially why I want to take care of the relay wiring, the knock sensor problem, the speedo gears, and the above list PRIOR to even considering nitrous.
Sorry for the long post. I have been searching this forum and others and reading my GM service manuals too and really wanted to put all this in one single post to avoid having 3-5 threads all over the site. Any help, advice, ideas etc would be very helpful. Thanks guys.
Here’s the general list of tasks:
- fix gap between hood and nose (done)
- fix passenger door gap adjust and shim accordingly (done)
- MAF burnoff relay wiring connector(done)
- remove charcoal canister and lines (not doing)
- minor adjustments to the sound system wiring and amplifier wires
- repair a damaged thread on the Optima red top battery with thread-maker epoxy (done. new bolts)
- fix center console screws that loosen up (done)
- figure out some design/fabric to have made and installed on front seats for seat-belt retainers
- cut ¼ coil off rear coil springs (or possibly just remove isolators and use heater hose) (done)
- flush power steering fluid and system (done)
- replace speedometer gears in transmission tail-shaft (done)
- New rubber isolators to better secure radiator in the grill mount (done)
- diagnose and fix the intermittent Knock Sensor problem (done)
- grease all joints, oil change, oil filter etc (done)
- untwist and remount the brake system T-fitting on the rear axle, bleed brake system again (done)
- pass NJ state inspection march 2015 (done, passed)
- new on-car adjustable panhard bar and upper mount (done)
- new adjustable rear Lower Control arms (done)
- new front and rear swaybars (done, reused existing but all new mounts)
- wet 125hp nitrous oxide kit and purge valve
- tighten header and y-pipe bolts (done)
- dial in rear suspension (done)
- wax wheels (done)
- redo spark plug wires using separators (done)
- new Hooker cat-back exhaust .. ordered, not yet arrived
- full blown wash, clay, polish, wax job
So, I was out in the garage last week making this list and decided that the two most important issues I had to get sorted out would be the buzzing relay and the knock sensor.
Buzzing relay:
I have had this problem for a while, and it’s been so infrequently, I would almost forget it existed. On the driver’s side of the car at the firewall, there is a cluster of three relays. The wiring and plastic wiring loom had been hiding the problem... which became immediately apparent as soon as I began to untangle the wire loom in the area. I have had a buzzing coming from the MAF burnoff relay (#11078907) the one with four wires (orange, orange, black, blue). I quickly discovered that where the wires connect to the male plastic connector, the sheathing had been damaged and the blue and black wires were completely exposed… This would cause them to sometimes make contact as the car was traveling down the road, causing the buzzing sound.
While diagnosing this I also noticed that it looks as if I had a similar issue years ago (probably 6/7 years ago when I had been painting the engine bay) where the wires had been exposed going into the MAF power relay (#7125) with orange, tan/white, black/white, blue, and red wires. Looks like I just temporarily doctored it up with some electrical tape... and then forgot to go back and take care of the wires properly. Now, since I know my problem and source of the buzzing I am going to fix it correctly. So, I will have to order some new wiring harness connectors then cut the existing wires out and solder everything in properly. The space that the wiring has to bee is a bit tight and hard to access, so I’ll have to do it all as neatly and efficiently as possible. I will be ordering two connectors... one for the MAF burnoff and one for the MAF power relay. I’ve found the connectors online here…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/370591717721?lpid=82&chn=ps and http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/200849797209?lpid=82&chn=ps and http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/360439337920?lpid=82&chn=ps
but was wondering if anyone knows of any better ones that came from GM or a more reputable brand. I don’t want to wire this all up just to find it’s a cheaply made part and not working properly or causing other problems. The one for the Fuel pump appears to be holding up just fine and I won’t be replacing it since I don’t need to
remember, these were kinda buried and hidden by the plastic wire loom so it didn’t initially catch my eye until I started undoing the snakepit of wires in the area.. also I was embarrassed to see how FILTHY stuff in that area was:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2952.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2953.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2957.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/IROCZman15/DSCN2965.jpg
.
The second major issue I am troubleshooting is an issue with the knock sensor.
I’ve had this issue for years and years and have just learned to drive a certain way to avoid it. Before anyone mentions it… I am 99.99999% sure that I am not having any spark-knock, any detonation, or pinging coming from the engine. I have not heard the classic sounds that go along with those conditions. Several years ago I replaced the knock sensor too (one from NAPA)... where as I should have probably paid more $ for a reputable OEM GM sensor instead. The sensor seems to get tripped when I am under max load ... basically WOT for more than 5-8 seconds ... in usually 2,3,4 gear (performance rebuilt and upgraded 700r-4 transmission) Or sometimes it will click the knock sensor if I am holding the throttle at a stationary position while cruising on the highway. To avoid this, I have just developed a good smooth rhythm to keeping the throttle fluctuating while on the highway. I read the codes years ago when it would activate the knock sensor too. I know it is certainly the knock sensor because under load accelerating at WOT I can feel the engine backing off on power... pulling away timing to prevent it from “detonating” yet there are no internal engine noises that I can feel or hear. The timing will retard to what the manual says is about 20 deg off and the SES check engine dashboard light comes on. All I do then is coast to a stop, turn the car off for 10 seconds and then turn it back on. The SES check engine light will go off and normal engine attitude is restored. Since almost every time I park the car in the garage I disconnect the battery completely, it clears the codes. I also run 93 octane in the car religiously, so I don’t think it’s a fuel octane issue. I’d be very grateful if anyone here could shed a bit of light on this or is able to recommend some further diagnosis and treatment so that I don’t have to “float” the accelerator pedal and so that I can feel comfortable that I will be able to make a full pull at the local track without activating the knock sensor at the 1/8th mile mark. Thanks for any help/input on this. I have searched this forum many times but didn’t find an answer I needed really….. especially since I hear no signs of spark knock, run proper octane fuel, plugs read clean, etc.
The other little things I mentioned at the beginning of this post are all really not too complicated and are things I can handle on my own. The bottom couple items on the list are where things get a little more expensive and are upgrades instead of issues to repair.
I know for sure I will be doing the on-car adjustable panhard bar, upper mount, and poly bushings. Gotta decide between UMI, BMR, Spohn, global west, PST, and Hotchkis. The same goes for the adjustable rear lower control arms too. Might go with one poly bushing and a del-sphere roto joint type on the other side. Still researching this... and there are a TON of good write-ups in the suspension section which is great. I also think I'll need to get the LCA relocation brackets since my LCA's are NOT level wit the ground. I am getting that the bolt-hole is at 8" where the LCA mounts to the body, and its at 9.5" where it mounts to the axle. (center of bolt-hole to floor measurement)
Also, I was under the car super quick and decided to quickly get a measurement on my front and rear swaybars. I checked with a ruler and even wrapped a piece of string to get the circumference of each bar. Then doing the proper math to find diameter resulted in a very close reading to what I got with the straight edged ruler. Oddly my results were a bit shocking to me, as I got the Front bar to be 36.60mm and the Rear bar to be 23.88 mm Again, that’s a quick hasty measurement so it’s not precise.. but that got me thinking... did my car come with the big sway bar package? I went inside and pulled out my build sheet to locate RPO codes of “1SB” (Iroc Option package 2) and “B4Z” (Iroc-Z performance package). I searched around on this site and elsewhere and wasn’t able to find out exactly what was included in those packages. Specifically I was looking to find out what size swaybars the car came with and still wears. Does anybody know what size bars I have if I have the BZ4 package. For a proper measurement, I will be buying a length measurement caliper tomorrow to check their diameter properly. It would be totally awesome if I had the big bars already and jut needed to buy new bushings and endlinks instead. Anybody?
Lastly, after I pass NJ state inspection and if $ allows, I’d like to install a NOS 75-125 hp wet shot of nitrous oxide on the car. This is especially why I want to take care of the relay wiring, the knock sensor problem, the speedo gears, and the above list PRIOR to even considering nitrous.
Sorry for the long post. I have been searching this forum and others and reading my GM service manuals too and really wanted to put all this in one single post to avoid having 3-5 threads all over the site. Any help, advice, ideas etc would be very helpful. Thanks guys.