NHRA Revokes licenses

[LTb1ow]

Apparently, the NHRA sent letters to some or all of the cast of street outlaws, and basically revoked their licenses to race NHRA tracks/events.

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/10996385_10155212429055174_808830090687468162_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=fdb44feeef8d43170f09e5f2bc8a80be&oe=55508F94&__gda__=1431283198_edf1a072fcda87a62566a5bf300b395 3

IMO this is a terribly poor choice on their part and I am sure the backlash has already started to hit them. Everyone knows the show is staged, except the NHRA apparently.

Cut off your nose to spite your face it seems.:bertstare:

[coolmanvette75]

They haven't banned anyone yet, just warning them that they will be banned in the future. I would like to see the NHRA actually go through with it, because I don't think they will. If they didn't screw themselves my writing the letter already, they really will if they follow through with it. Seems to me like they are quite mad that this little 1 hour Monday night show gets more views than an entire weekends worth of NHRA coverage on ESPN. Lol

In reality, there are only really two people that would seriously be affected by this if it were to go through, and they would be Jeff Lutz and Mike Murillo, because they actively compete in NHRA sanctioned series throughout the year. The rest of the people either strictly street race or grudge race where NHRA rules really don't matter anyway...

Technically something like this would never really hold up in court because what they are doing for television isn't illegal at all. All the roads have filming permits, etc.

[BonzoHansen]

I'm not sure what is dumber, that show or the NHRA's letters

[LTb1ow]

All about the money IMO.

"Getting to those numbers, the NHRA’s qualifying and eliminations broadcasts have averaged a .02 rating and little more than 300,000 viewers and a .03 rating and just under 400,000 viewers, respectively. Likewise, Street Outlaws, which airs on Monday nights on Discovery, has averaged in the neighborhood of 1.5 million viewers and a 0.6 rating. That’s more than four times the number of Americans tuned in to watch the one-hour program on Discovery versus those watching NHRA drag racing."

http://www.dragzine.com/project-silver-bullet/tv-ratings-street-outlaws-topples-nhra-broadcasts/

I would say the NHRA is wanting a piece of the pie and if one is to believe cast member posts on YB, it seems they asked to get involved with the show and were told to F off early on.

I'm not sure what is dumber, that show or the NHRA's letters

But unlike horrbilby boring drag racing on late night ESPN, what other show show cases high HP drag cars to such success? While it pretends to be something illegal, its drawing a ton of attention to the car aspect of things. I appericate that. Much better than another housewives of kazxaskstan.

[coolmanvette75]

All about the money IMO.

"Getting to those numbers, the NHRA’s qualifying and eliminations broadcasts have averaged a .02 rating and little more than 300,000 viewers and a .03 rating and just under 400,000 viewers, respectively. Likewise, Street Outlaws, which airs on Monday nights on Discovery, has averaged in the neighborhood of 1.5 million viewers and a 0.6 rating. That’s more than four times the number of Americans tuned in to watch the one-hour program on Discovery versus those watching NHRA drag racing."

http://www.dragzine.com/project-silver-bullet/tv-ratings-street-outlaws-topples-nhra-broadcasts/

I would say the NHRA is wanting a piece of the pie and if one is to believe cast member posts on YB, it seems they asked to get involved with the show and were told to F off early on.



But unlike horrbilby boring drag racing on late night ESPN, what other show show cases high HP drag cars to such success? While it pretends to be something illegal, its drawing a ton of attention to the car aspect of things. I appericate that. Much better than another housewives of kazxaskstan.

Those numbers in the Dragzine article are a little old. The highest watched episode this season reached like 2.5 million viewers I believe, which is nuts. You really just need to take the show for what it is. It has opened up the car and racing community for everyone. Little kids have something to watch every week and grow up wanting to build an old car. The show has drug numerous old timers out from the bushes and has them building cars to race again. I have noticed a crazy turnaround in the racing and car scene where I live now in the last year and a half when the show really took off.

Obviously some of the scenes are scripted, and they are never really dodging the cops, but they need to make the show appeal to a wide range of people, that's just tv. The racing itself though, is 100% real, so it keeps its authenticity there. From the second they line up to the second the cross the finish line, it is all legit. I got invited to go to the episode filming for the race that airs next week, but had other commitments for that weekend already. Everyone involved really are a bunch of good people and a real benefit to the racing world

[NJSPEEDER]

If the NHRA wants rating I think it would help their cause to stop signing TV contracts that replay eliminations several hours after they are completed. The ratings were the highest when they shows eliminations live. By the time most events are broadcast now we have all seen the results, including videos of any pass we want, and moved on to other prime time viewing.

As fast as the letter circulated the internet the NHRA has probably seen more press and personal mentions on social media and enthusiast sites in the last 48 hours than in the last 5 years. So on some scale they got something out of it. Time will tell if that is a good thing or if it will lead to backlash.

[sweetbmxrider]

http://babspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/butthurt-ad.jpg



http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x474/Jason_Waste/72965_10201484756464304_2112855132_n_zps61dff3ec.j pg

[LTb1ow]

Interesting cut from YB,

"But here's the final blow they have now set themselves up for.

They've given the SO stars full license to fire back at them to their 2.5 MILLION VIEWERS.

If I were chief I'd be considering a little fireside shop chat at the end of the show along the lines of:

Recently its come to our attention that we're no longer welcome at a well known racing association's facilities.

Its certainly their free right to feel this way about us so we're not going to attend those facilities anymore or watch anymore of their races on TV.

And if we're not welcome there it probably means you guys watching this show aren't welcome there anymore either, so if you guys feel ok staying away from those races and coming to see us when we visit your local tracks we promise we'll treat you like family members.

Because for us its not about the money, its about the racing and fans like you that love it, so we're always going to put you guys first."

Seems like a huge publicity fiasco the NHRA has created for themselves but maybe this will shake things up and get NHRA back to its roots. Not million dollar pro mad or top fuel stuff.

[WildBillyT]

As "fake" as the characters and non-race events on SO may be, it's still more entertaining and maybe even more "real" than an NHRA robot talking about Autolite plugs and Powerade.

[Blackbirdws6]

Interesting move from NHRA and would love to know some of the background the general public do not get to see. The unfortunate fact is I'm sure many of those 2.5M viewers do not know the races, while real, are staged/organized legally. They pepper the potential for consequences from the law but seems folks are getting slaps on the wrist (warning). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the LEO presence wasn't staged as well.

I enjoy the show for the races and hope it sticks around.

[Dudbird113]

its not just the ratings its also because they broadcast that street racing is the new cool thing to do. but the problem with the nhra is they have to many rules. need this and that to run x.xx time = racer has to spend more money to race his car at the track verse the street where it doesnt matter what you have. only thing i hate about people and street racing is they do it in retarded places like a busy/ high traffic area. everyone in nj knows to go down to south jerseys "woods" if you want to run in a barren place.

[wrong generation]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/nhra-responds-to-the-hate-over-their-street-outlaws-letter/

http://www.newson6.com/story/26001326/officials-closing-tulsa-road-for-illegal-street-racing

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/nhra-responds-to-the-hate-over-their-street-outlaws-letter/

http://www.newson6.com/story/26001326/officials-closing-tulsa-road-for-illegal-street-racing



After reading that I understand NHRA's side of this. I've never seen or heard of the show before but from what that interview states is that this show glorifies street racing and those with NHRA licenses and NHRA stickers/logos on their cars are shown street racing illegally. whether or not its happening legally behind the scenes isnt of concern to them. The fact that their logo is appearing in conjunction with illegal activity makes them, an accredited racing organization, look bad no matter what.

[LTb1ow]

After reading that I understand NHRA's side of this. I've never seen or heard of the show before but from what that interview states is that this show glorifies street racing and those with NHRA licenses and NHRA stickers/logos on their cars are shown street racing illegally. whether or not its happening legally behind the scenes isnt of concern to them. The fact that their logo is appearing in conjunction with illegal activity makes them, an accredited racing organization, look bad no matter what.

So anyone who runs NHRA numbers on their car and or a NHRA sticker is now subject to what the NHRA says?

Drag racing is more than NHRA, and they need to wake up to embrace a grass roots less ballerific racing IMO.

[NastyEllEssWon]

So anyone who runs NHRA numbers on their car and or a NHRA sticker is now subject to what the NHRA says?

Drag racing is more than NHRA, and they need to wake up to embrace a grass roots less ballerific racing IMO.



Not necessarily, but since they own the racing association and make the rules, then yes they can most certainly limit your eligibility in their association. When it comes to TV they can also dictate how they want their logo to be seen, take for example Nike. If you make a movie and someone is doing drugs with a nike shirt on, they have the right to make you reshoot/remove the scene in questions since it disparages the corporations brand and identity.

[LTb1ow]

Not necessarily, but since they own the racing association and make the rules, then yes they can most certainly limit your eligibility in their association. When it comes to TV they can also dictate how they want their logo to be seen, take for example Nike. If you make a movie and someone is doing drugs with a nike shirt on, they have the right to make you reshoot/remove the scene in questions since it disparages the corporations brand and identity.

They own one association, and I think this will push a lot of people towards other associations. Again, not debating the fact that the issue is a real one, but it was handled very poorly.

Like what did they expect, these guys to give up and say oops our bad?

[WildBillyT]

They own one association, and I think this will push a lot of people towards other associations. Again, not debating the fact that the issue is a real one, but it was handled very poorly.

Like what did they expect, these guys to give up and say oops our bad?

Or just straight up outlaw tracks.

This was handled very bad IMO, unless there were some other talks that I am not privy to.

[BonzoHansen]

I think it might have been handled poorly, but again we don't know all the details. I wouldn't be surprised if they had already asked those involved to take the nhra stickers off and they refused. That is what I would have done and I'm not sure if the nhra took such a preliminary step.

They are right that this show glorifies street racing to some degree. God there are idiots out there who think this is real. nhra can't be associated with that.

this show is as stupid as the housewives shows and other dumb crap.

[LTb1ow]

http://www.dragzine.com/news/south-georgia-motorsports-park-joins-ihra/

Chips, falling?

[deadtrend1]

If the NHRA wants rating I think it would help their cause to stop signing TV contracts that replay eliminations several hours after they are completed. The ratings were the highest when they shows eliminations live. By the time most events are broadcast now we have all seen the results, including videos of any pass we want, and moved on to other prime time viewing.

As fast as the letter circulated the internet the NHRA has probably seen more press and personal mentions on social media and enthusiast sites in the last 48 hours than in the last 5 years. So on some scale they got something out of it. Time will tell if that is a good thing or if it will lead to backlash.

I would watch NHRA more if I could, but its rarely on. If it is, its because a basketball, softball or poker game didnt break out suddenly or run late. Or its on at 1:00am on ESPN3. Wtf is ESPN3?

And I dont need a "Dodgeball" joke here

[Mike]

Espn 3 is the internets.

[1320B4U]

Its an entertaining show...I said to my wife earlier in the week I can't seem to commit to any tv shows at all, however I always make the time to watch this..its good fun, a show my wife even doesn't mind watching. I mean, they have an Asian guy named 'azn'. That's reason enough.

[Rob WS6]

Pretty soon, you're only gonna be able to find NHRA on ESPN 8 "The Ocho".

[sweetbmxrider]

I enjoyed the show but haven't watched it in a while. It was mostly guys being guys with their friends and some cool cars making lots of noise. Why can't they just blur the nhra ****?

[BonzoHansen]

http://dragillustrated.com/street-outlaws-big-chief-murder-nova-talk-notorious-nhra-letter/

interesting reply. they seem to 'get it' more than the interwebz folks. i thought this was interesting.

“So many of the Street Outlaws guys are trying to pay their bills and make a living by visiting NHRA tracks, selling merchandise, meeting fans and doing this whole deal because, truth be told, it’s not like the show pays that well,” Shearer continues. “Now, NHRA is going to strip us and several of these track owners the opportunity to take advantage of the buzz and excitement the show has created and pack a place full of people, tracks that have never seen six or seven-thousand people. That’s the fallout; that’s the part that people might not understand.”

The NHRA can't like these guys making money at NHRA events from doing something the NHRA opposes.

[NastyEllEssWon]

http://dragillustrated.com/street-outlaws-big-chief-murder-nova-talk-notorious-nhra-letter/

interesting reply. they seem to 'get it' more than the interwebz folks. i thought this was interesting.



The NHRA can't like these guys making money at NHRA events from doing something the NHRA opposes.




This makes a lot more sense considering I read earlier in the thread that NHRA tried to get in on the show/money train early in its inception. No money for the NHRA = no peddling your wares at our events. The problem they have to deal with now is the social media fallout from disgruntled fans, most of which are people that most likely arent in the NHRA demographics (i.e legal race fans).

[WildBillyT]

This makes a lot more sense considering I read earlier in the thread that NHRA tried to get in on the show/money train early in its inception. No money for the NHRA = no peddling your wares at our events. The problem they have to deal with now is the social media fallout from disgruntled fans, most of which are people that most likely arent in the NHRA demographics (i.e legal race fans).

Not to mention the legion of racers who paid to get licenses that are never even checked.

[wrong generation]

http://speedsociety.com/nhra-banned-people-participated-street-outlaws/

[NJSPEEDER]

That is a very interesting take on things. The money beats politics comment should be plastered across everything on TV, including the evening 'news', to put it in people's heads how TV really works. All about seeking a market niche and a low enough common denominator to make the numbers work.

Good for Chief......and the 405 still ain't faster than the I95 corridor but them middle America kids don't like to talk about that ;)

[coolmanvette75]

That is a very interesting take on things. The money beats politics comment should be plastered across everything on TV, including the evening 'news', to put it in people's heads how TV really works. All about seeking a market niche and a low enough common denominator to make the numbers work.

Good for Chief......and the 405 still ain't faster than the I95 corridor but them middle America kids don't like to talk about that ;)

Tim after seeing the 405 cars in action in person, I can pretty safely say nobody on the east coast, collectively, has anything for those guys in their environment. If you look at that Speed Society interview a few posts up they even say it. There are single cars that are fast but not a whole group. If you watch the new episode next week though, there are quite a few "upsets" that are going to happen

[WayFast84]

I don't think it really matters. I think the show was just starting to take a turn into American Chopper because we're starting to see more personalities and other things than racing like the crash up derby and farmtruck getting a new shop. It should be interesting to see where this show ends up.

I am pissed it isn't on demand for cablevision though.

[NJSPEEDER]

Tim after seeing the 405 cars in action in person, I can pretty safely say nobody on the east coast, collectively, has anything for those guys in their environment. If you look at that Speed Society interview a few posts up they even say it. There are single cars that are fast but not a whole group. If you watch the new episode next week though, there are quite a few "upsets" that are going to happen


The difference between the 405 cars and the rest of the country is just that they are the ones that best operate as a team currently. The central TX crew used to be more of a team and there was a north FL clique that used to be more together too.

All it would take is someone managing a truce between all the weekly players along the I95 corridor and getting them behind the one cause. Speed Society has a lot of fast cars and plenty of good guys but the fastest cars aren't all accounted for there.

[Mike]

Are we bench racing other people's cars against other other people's cars now?

[Rob WS6]

Regardless of all that, it still doesn't change the fact that most of them are NOT street cars. Drive to a race, race, then drive somewhere else... to me, that's a street car. Not trailer queens.

[transampete]

regardless of all that, it still doesn't change the fact that most of them are not street cars. Drive to a race, race, then drive somewhere else... To me, that's a street car. Not trailer queens.

what he said!

[IROCZman15]

-

sorry, I know this isn't the theme of the original post about license revocation, but this is how i feel about the two shows.

I still watch NHRA, been pretty active in following all of it for over a decade and a half. Usually have to watch episodes off of the DVR... which helps because I can skip the commercials and turn a 3 hour broadcast into 2 hours. However, I still think this is too long... NHRA does not need a 3 hour broadcast; especially after a 2 hour qualifying broadcast the day before. it should be: 1 hour for qualifying and 2 hours for the eliminations... NHRA has gotten close to NASCAR levels of commercialization. Sponsors and brand names announced for everything (tale of the tape, pit reports, super slow-mo, etc). The crowd of sponsor ambassadors that pile behind the event winners holding up sodas and changing the drivers hat when he/she hasn't even taken their mouthpiece out yet.. too much commercialization has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth about NHRA for at least the past 5 years.


I also watch street outlaws. So does the wife. She doesn't know anything about the mechanics or buildup of the vehicles, but that's the MAIN reason I tune in. I don't care one bit for the drama, or call-outs, or staged police interference, or staged 'fishing", or the extra non-racing antics.. but I do enjoy seeing the 1000+ and 2000+ horsepower tube chassis cars yanking the front wheels and blistering down the (closed) street. That is impressive. Not a fan of hearing turbo blow-off valve sounds constantly during a nitrous car vs nitrous car race though....that does ruin it a bit. Still, the cars on the show car do freaking MOVE.

When it comes down to it... If I am looking at the recordings on my DVR.. if I see a 3 hour NHRA Eliminations recording and a 1 hour episode of Street Outlaws... I'm putting on Street Outlaws.

[sweetbmxrider]

http://news.yahoo.com/two-street-racing-spectators-killed-los-angeles-local-172023019.html

Prob watched too much street outlaws.....

[r0nin89]

Regardless of all that, it still doesn't change the fact that most of them are NOT street cars. Drive to a race, race, then drive somewhere else... to me, that's a street car. Not trailer queens.

For serials...

My wife, who is only mildly car educated, said to me the other night "wait parachutes? these cars have parachute on them? how do you use a parachute on the street?"

That got me on the rant that these arent street cars theyre track cars being raced on the street.

Farmtruck seems to be the only one with any chops to actually call himself a street racer.

[LTb1ow]

I don't think they have ever called their cars street cars, they go with the "fastest cars raced on the street"

[r0nin89]

I don't think they have ever called their cars street cars, they go with the "fastest cars raced on the street"

Huh? Thy constantly say "Find out whos got the fastest street cars in the nation"

[sweetbmxrider]

Ya, they def call them street cars

[WildBillyT]

I don't think they have ever called their cars street cars, they go with the "fastest cars raced on the street"

I remember them saying this too.

Fastest street raced cars in the nation or whatever.

[Blackbirdws6]

Def read that in "Chief's" voice.

[NJSPEEDER]

Once you get into the middle of the country the usual east coast view of what makes a street car vanishes. Like a lot of the "street legal" sanctioning bodies it revolves more around getting tags on it than actually being able to drive it any distance. Since inspection and registration rules are soft, especially for anything that qualifies as classic, antique, or collector cars it is pretty easy to meet the minimum federal requirements of headlights, horn, turn signals, and brake lights to get tags.

[transampete]

I consider a street car to be licensed, insured and actually driven on the street. NOT something that needs a trailer to get where they're going. Street Outlaws cars are Race cars that they race on the street. No way could anyone consider them street cars. Street cars are driven on the street. Just my opinion.

[NJSPEEDER]

I agree Pete. That is why I like events and classes that include a cruise prior to competition and don't allow refueling or other adjustments when going from the street cruise to the drag strip. 20-30 miles is plenty far to weed out all the guys running 3-5 gallon fuel cells and driving down the road means DOT tires which usually weeds out the rest of the biggest of big HP cars even if they put a larger cell in their car.

[WildBillyT]

I agree Pete. That is why I like events and classes that include a cruise prior to competition and don't allow refueling or other adjustments when going from the street cruise to the drag strip. 20-30 miles is plenty far to weed out all the guys running 3-5 gallon fuel cells and driving down the road means DOT tires which usually weeds out the rest of the biggest of big HP cars even if they put a larger cell in their car.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3897/15229243555_8b8fbd5396_o.png

:mrgreen:

[Featherburner]

I don't see those guys anywhere near the top of this list.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7F06UbBcrNnEEweUNJCCNd27VHZRlsNr

[sweetbmxrider]

I love what hot rod drag week showcases and I can not believe what those guys do with their cars including the trailers they pull but they aren't street cars either.

[Featherburner]

I love what hot rod drag week showcases and I can not believe what those guys do with their cars including the trailers they pull but they aren't street cars either.One of the guys in the top 5 last summer did a 1800 mile road trip for his vacation and hit several drag strips along the way. He collected a hand full of low 7 second time slips!

[BonzoHansen]

Drag Week is very cool

[sweetbmxrider]

One of the guys in the top 5 last summer did a 1800 mile road trip for his vacation and hit several drag strips along the way. He collected a hand full of low 7 second time slips!

Is that right? Well that is very cool. Does he roll into the pits, tech, air down, throw on a helmet and run? What cage is in it? Again, I am nothing but impressed with what these guys do. Its very impressive and just damn cool. To call them street cars, well it just doesn't jive with me.

[WildBillyT]

Is that right? Well that is very cool. Does he roll into the pits, tech, air down, throw on a helmet and run? What cage is in it? Again, I am nothing but impressed with what these guys do. Its very impressive and just damn cool. To call them street cars, well it just doesn't jive with me.

I know Larry Larson is looking to crack into the 5's this year. Not a typo.

I think he de-tunes the car a lot for the street and then changes it at the track.

[sweetbmxrider]

I know Larry Larson is looking to crack into the 5's this year. Not a typo.

I think he de-tunes the car a lot for the street and then changes it at the track.

http://www.hotrod.com/events/hot-rod-drag-week/2014/inside-larry-larsons-doomsday-s-10-built-for-drag-week-2014/

He runs alcohol at the track, swaps doors, removes the street fuel cell, etc etc. Its damn impressive but its not a street car/truck. It obviously meets the criteria for the class and is damn awesome.

[BonzoHansen]

it's insane what he does.

[NJSPEEDER]

I think that is getting a bit far outside the spirit of the original idea of the competition. I know for years guys have had two fuel cells in the car, I even know some local racers that do this, but to switch out the cell and doors and whatever else is excessive.

[Mike]

I think that is getting a bit far outside the spirit of the original idea of the competition. I know for years guys have had two fuel cells in the car, I even know some local racers that do this, but to switch out the cell and doors and whatever else is excessive.

Apparently not if he isn't getting dq'ed

[The_Bishop]

Well...
Izzy Valenzuela -- who appeared on the Discovery channel show "Street Outlaws" -- was arrested Thursday and charged with two counts of murder for his role in a street racing accident.
According to the L.A. County D.A.'s Office, Valenzuela was racing another man, Michael Gevorgyan, on February 25 when Gevorgyan lost control of his car and crashed into a crowd.

Two people in the crowd died and a third was injured.
Los Angeles has strict street racing laws, which is why Valenzuela is being charged even though his car didn't kill anyone. He's currently in jail, and prosecutors want him held on $2 million bail.
If convicted, Valenzuela faces 33 years to life in prison.
TMZ spoke to Valenzuela the day after the fatal street race -- we had a tip he might have been involved, though he claimed he'd been at his auto shop that night ... and wasn't involved.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/05/izzy-valenzuela-arrested-murder-street-outlaws-racing-accident/

[BonzoHansen]

Apparently not if he isn't getting dq'ed

I think it's innovative and within the no support vehicle rules.

[sweetbmxrider]

Well...


http://www.tmz.com/2015/03/05/izzy-valenzuela-arrested-murder-street-outlaws-racing-accident/

Wow, see post 37.....

[wrong generation]

im not trying to condone street racing or anything by saying this and this is going to sound rather heartless. but the two people that died and the person that got hurt are more responsible for their deaths or injuries then this guy. they chose to stand in an area where they knew the risks. their deaths is because of their own mistakes and stupidity.

[transampete]

im not trying to condone street racing or anything by saying this and this is going to sound rather heartless. but the two people that died and the person that got hurt are more responsible for their deaths or injuries then this guy. they chose to stand in an area where they knew the risks. their deaths is because of their own mistakes and stupidity.

I agree. What the hell happen to personal responsibility. If you read through the comments almost everyone is looking for someone else to blame. I love the comment Linda Carter makes.

[Mike]

Proof the were spectators and not people walking home from work?

[NJSPEEDER]

The draw of street racing is the added level of danger. When danger is the attraction and something goes wrong, regardless of how tragically, it shouldn't really surprise anyone.

Unfortunately the TMZ site is blocked here at work so I can see the comments. I did find it odd that one of the articles that came up on google said the police didn't think Izzy was driving but that he was the promoter of the event with another guy. Promoter of a street race? Every one of those guys i know goes out of their way to avoid anyone knowing whats going on, or at minimum avoid them knowing where its going on.

[sweetbmxrider]

Proof the were spectators and not people walking home from work?

The article I linked in post 37 claims they were spectators in the opening sentence.

[Mike]

The article I linked in post 37 claims they were spectators in the opening sentence.

Claims....I understand why they were most likely there. But to blame them more than the driver of the car is different.... Were they wearing nascar style "la street racer" tee shirts? They are dead and can't speak to why they were there

[sweetbmxrider]

http://abc7.com/news/chatsworth-fatal-street-racing-hit-and-run-driver-sought/535300/

They have the clip in the beginning.

http://abc7.com/news/chatsworth-fatal-street-race-2nd-driver-charged-with-murder/545907/

Post arrest article. Mustang "driver"'s attorney claims he wasn't even driving....

[Dudbird113]

Claims....I understand why they were most likely there. But to blame them more than the driver of the car is different.... Were they wearing nascar style "la street racer" tee shirts? They are dead and can't speak to why they were there

id blame them more than the racer for it, that be like going a shooting range and watching from the side 20 yards out. always that chance you can get mowed over. why i hate being up top for that reason.

[sweetbmxrider]

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/famed-street-racer-charged-with-murder-after-deadly-l-a--race-184741858.html

I guess Izzy wasn't driving, rather running the race. Don't watch the vid, its retarded.

[Mike]

id blame them more than the racer for it, that be like going a shooting range and watching from the side 20 yards out. always that chance you can get mowed over. why i hate being up top for that reason.

Horrible analogy...

And the racers have to have the most blame. No one would "spectate" an empty stretch of road

[BonzoHansen]

The ultimate responsibility is with the drivers. Don't try to deflect that responsibility.

[NastyEllEssWon]

its funny to see so many people coming out and saying ''take it to the track, keep it off the street'' yet they support this show Street Outlawz. I wonder if the NHRA comes out of this smelling like roses now.

[Jersey Mike]

This quote blows my mind:

Neither Valenzuela or Gevorgyan were behind the wheel at the time of the crash; prosecutors say both face the charges for organizing and promoting the event, which could make them liable for deaths under California's tough laws against street racing. Were either to be convicted, they would face penalties of 33 years to life in prison.

[LTb1ow]

Thats a little absurd.

[NastyEllEssWon]

this is the same state that will crush your car if caught racing enough :D

[sweetbmxrider]

I'm not trying to justify anything but he has a point, its your choice to stand alongside the race. Plenty are crowding the starting area as well. No one is right here in their immediate actions but the individuals here are responsible for their own choices. Of course our screwed up world of law will "prove" otherwise.

[NastyEllEssWon]

If there wasn't anything to spectate there would be no spectators. Thats the point this law is trying to prove. They facilitated the event, they provided the entertainment to be viewed, they're responsible for every single person that shows up. This is the reason why we have designated places with regulations for safety put into place. These places also have insurance and professionals on hand to deal with emergency situations if one should arise. This situation seems to be the same situation NHRA was trying to avoid. Imagine if one of these guys on the show ends up killing someone with a car thats allowed into NHRA sanctioned events, by a licensed driver with NHRA logos on the car.

[sweetbmxrider]

I understand what you are saying but you have no idea to what level they facilitated the event. If it was a word of mouth, no payed entry, no true organization, how can you completely point the finger at them? I understand the law and the point it makes but I can not exempt the victims from responsibility here like so many people do in so many different aspects of life.

If there were no spectators, would the drivers have raced?

[WildBillyT]

I'm not trying to justify anything but he has a point, its your choice to stand alongside the race. Plenty are crowding the starting area as well. No one is right here in their immediate actions but the individuals here are responsible for their own choices. Of course our screwed up world of law will "prove" otherwise.

:nod:

It's shared responsibility. They made the decision to watch an illegal street race and were killed in an accident.

[NJSPEEDER]

I'm curious to see how the charges work related to being the 'promoter' of the race. Do they have to prove that Izzy arranged everything? Had knowledge? Was the go between to arrange the race? Just made recommendations for where to do it? Profited from the race?

I understand the goal is to discourage street racing at all levels. Just not sure how they cover the gap between a guy that may not have even been on scene (according to some of the online stories) and a murder charge.

[NastyEllEssWon]

If there were no spectators, would the drivers have raced?

Of course because most likely everyone there had a camera or friends filming for them and the spectators wouldve been the virtual comments on youtube street racing channels :D Tons of people street race without spectators...how many people stand on the side of the road watching normal people drive to work though? These are the arguments the prosecutors will most likely bring.

I'm curious to see how the charges work related to being the 'promoter' of the race. Do they have to prove that Izzy arranged everything? Had knowledge? Was the go between to arrange the race? Just made recommendations for where to do it? Profited from the race?


This im curious about but if they did arrest him and charge them that means they must have some type of evidence that meets the burden of proof at the very least. Maybe a Facebook group that he runs? Some text messages sent to racers from his phone? Either way it seems like this guy used his newfound celebrity with this show to garner himself a pack of stoolies willing to follow him around and street race because of his status on the show.

Either way its really interesting to see how this is going to play out. Can't wait to see the consipiracy theory numb nuts come out of the woodwork and say NHRA paid to cause this crash :kneeslap:

[Mike]

Undercover officers.....

[Dudbird113]

responsible for everyone that shows up... half the time the people that are racing have no idea who the spectators are. not like they can say, can you please move to a safe location. theyll tell you to go pound salt.

[Featherburner]

responsible for everyone that shows up... half the time the people that are racing have no idea who the spectators are. not like they can say, can you please move to a safe location. theyll tell you to go pound salt.You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

[sweetbmxrider]

You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

They don't have to stand there and watch either? What if you watched a pickup game of basketball from the side of the court and someone going for a loose ball slams into you? Its the player's fault? I don't understand why so much innocence is put on the spectators.

[BonzoHansen]

Basketball player isn't doing something illegal. Not a good comparison.

From a legal POV when you purchase a ticket you agree to a hold harmless clause. No such assumption of risk by a bystander on a street.

[Dudbird113]

You make it sound like the don't have any choice. Bottom line is they don't have to race!

when theres a dp locked in you tend to have to. wheres coolmanvette on this?

[NastyEllEssWon]

when theres a dp locked in you tend to have to. wheres coolmanvette on this?



once again...youre trying to justify the legality of someone being held responsible by trying to prove your case through illegal activites. none of that holds water. Judges and Juries dont want to hear that you ''had'' to illegally street race because you fear retaliation for an illegal bet placed at said illegal event. do you see how absurb that sounds?

[wrong generation]

Basketball player isn't doing something illegal. Not a good comparison.

From a legal POV when you purchase a ticket you agree to a hold harmless clause. No such assumption of risk by a bystander on a street.

how is that not a valid comparison ? if there are a bunch of kids playing basketball on the street and i happen to stand there and watch and a loose ball hits me or one of the kids runs into me. how is it not my fault ???? people have to take personal responsibility for their own actions. if i get hit from a ball and get a black eye or get slammed by a kid fall and break my arm it would be my own fault. i was knowingly standing where i shouldnt have been fully knowing the risks.

[NJSPEEDER]

Its not a good argument simply because whenever someone is controlling an object, doesn't matter if it is a ball or a car, they are responsible for what happens with it. In your example of a street basketball game, legally, the person who lost control of the ball or ran out of control into you would be at fault.

This is how lawyers create multi million dollar law suits out of stuff that the rest of us consider nothing events. They argue the fault and the danger and the lack of control and everything else against the person that threw the ball.

[sweetbmxrider]

That is the dumbest argument ever. If the driver is responsible for the object they are controlling, I can stand in the middle of the road and sue anyone and everyone that hits me. This is clearly not the case. Nor is it when at a professional sporting event, something occurs causing an object or player to contact a spectator(s). As Scott said there, you have purchased a ticket and with that, some sort of risk clause. With this race, the spectator has personal responsibility for their own actions. I don't doubt that the lawsuits will end with settlements for the victims and more than likely the ones being charged will serve a mandatory minimum but it doesn't mean this is correct. Its our sick, sad world and it will never change.

[BonzoHansen]

how is that not a valid comparison ? if there are a bunch of kids playing basketball on the street and i happen to stand there and watch and a loose ball hits me or one of the kids runs into me. how is it not my fault ???? people have to take personal responsibility for their own actions. if i get hit from a ball and get a black eye or get slammed by a kid fall and break my arm it would be my own fault. i was knowingly standing where i shouldnt have been fully knowing the risks.

i missed the pickup game part. sorry, not sure how i glanced over it. probably because i attend a lot of games

[WildBillyT]

once again...youre trying to justify the legality of someone being held responsible by trying to prove your case through illegal activites. none of that holds water. Judges and Juries dont want to hear that you ''had'' to illegally street race because you fear retaliation for an illegal bet placed at said illegal event. do you see how absurb that sounds?

I had to rob that liquor store to pay off my bookie. LOL.

[Mike]

That is the dumbest argument ever. If the driver is responsible for the object they are controlling, I can stand in the middle of the road and sue anyone and everyone that hits me. This is clearly not the case. Nor is it when at a professional sporting event, something occurs causing an object or player to contact a spectator(s). As Scott said there, you have purchased a ticket and with that, some sort of risk clause. With this race, the spectator has personal responsibility for their own actions. I don't doubt that the lawsuits will end with settlements for the victims and more than likely the ones being charged will serve a mandatory minimum but it doesn't mean this is correct. Its our sick, sad world and it will never change.

No. Then the person walking in the street is he only one breaking any laws. Obstructing traffic, jaywalking etc...

Actually happened here last night.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2015/03/police_trying_to_identify_man_struck_and_killed_by .html#incart_river

[Dudbird113]

this countries going to hell in a handbag. everyone points the blame finger at someone else when in deed its their own damn fault when something happens. is it sad that someone lost their life watching a street race? yes. that be like seeing a street brawl about to go down and decide to go walk through it or near it to get to your destination, id take the longer route to stay safe.

[sweetbmxrider]

No. Then the person walking in the street is he only one breaking any laws. Obstructing traffic, jaywalking etc...

Actually happened here last night.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2015/03/police_trying_to_identify_man_struck_and_killed_by .html#incart_river

If the driver didn't stop, he would be facing serious charges. Nonetheless, the points I have made still stand and anyone saying differently seems to be on the blame side of this world rather than owning their accountability. When you are in the right, you are in the right. When you are in the wrong, you are in the wrong. I'll never understand why so much gray area is allowed to exist. Its sad.

[Mike]

If the driver didn't stop its a different case, the driver would have then committed a crime. I don't understand why this is so difficult...

[NastyEllEssWon]

this countries going to hell in a handbag. everyone points the blame finger at someone else when in deed its their own damn fault when something happens. is it sad that someone lost their life watching a street race? yes. that be like seeing a street brawl about to go down and decide to go walk through it or near it to get to your destination, id take the longer route to stay safe.



can you prove that they were spectating the race and not just walking down the street? What if they werent spectating the race, what if they heard a loud noise out in their neighborhood, went outside to see what the problem was and died.

What you do know is the facts. A person on a sidewalk is not illegal. A person illegally drag racing in the street is. A person witnessing an illegal act is not illegal. A person organizing the illegal act being witnessed is illegal.

Therefor those who you can PROVE 100% beyond any reasonable doubt were doing something illegal, are to blame. You cant prove that the spectator was spectating, but you can prove that the actions by those being charged with the crime directly led to the death of the victim and those actions are illegal.

Now arguing the morality of charging someone with murder while not being in attendance at the event is a whole different issue. Its just that our justice system relies on FACTS and not MORALITY.

[sweetbmxrider]

If the driver didn't stop its a different case, the driver would have then committed a crime. I don't understand why this is so difficult...

Well we went a little off topic so there is no real sense arguing those examples.

can you prove that they were spectating the race and not just walking down the street? What if they werent spectating the race, what if they heard a loud noise out in their neighborhood, went outside to see what the problem was and died.

What you do know is the facts. A person on a sidewalk is not illegal. A person illegally drag racing in the street is. A person witnessing an illegal act is not illegal. A person organizing the illegal act being witnessed is illegal.

Therefor those who you can PROVE 100% beyond any reasonable doubt were doing something illegal, are to blame. You cant prove that the spectator was spectating, but you can prove that the actions by those being charged with the crime directly led to the death of the victim and those actions are illegal.

Now arguing the morality of charging someone with murder while not being in attendance at the event is a whole different issue. Its just that our justice system relies on FACTS and not MORALITY.

There is video, they were not out for a midnight walk with the family nor did they go out to investigate a loud noise. What you said regarding how the legal system works is correct but it doesn't mean it is CORRECT.

[The_Bishop]

At the end of the day, there was an illegal street race. People got hurt when a racer crashed.

If there was no street race:
A: Nobody would have been spectating
B: Nobody would have crashed
C: Nobody would have gotten hurt.

There is *NO* was around that. Do I think they deserve to face the charges they are? I think it's a bit harsh but they are organizing and promoting a criminal activity. There *has* to be consequences. Street racing is ****ing stupid, especially when the cars get that powerful. The odds of things going very, very wrong jump up, exponentially.

I've had to extricate too many people from their cars after tragic accidents. Two of the worst were from street racing.

In one, the driver lost it and slid broadside into a pole hard enough to split the car in half and take out the lower section of the power pole, leaving the top hanging by the wires. The driver was screaming as we packaged him up. Turns out his pelvis was shattered, and both legs had multiple fractures. Fortunately, nobody else was hurt.

In the second one, some jackass was showing off street racing on a main avenue with his 10-11 year old son in the passenger seat. In a convertible, no less. He lost it and went straight under the back of a box truck. The bumper of the box truck was all the way to the back seat, on the passenger side. His son was dead, that jackass lived. Should have been the other way around, that kid didn't ask for his life to end.

Nothing you can say will convince me that street racing is OK. I've seen the consequences of it, and it's never good.

On top of that, screw you guys. I didn't need to dig those memories up.

[sweetbmxrider]

While I agree with you, we don't know all the facts here. What was the promoting? Was it, hey, Victor is racing Mario friday night at 2 or was it banners and flyers and facebook and prizes? And just because something is going on, does not mean you have to be there to watch. That is your choice, and with that choice, there can be terrible consequences. As I have said, everyone is wrong here. Being a victim does not necessarily make you innocent. Its a tough situation but it shouldn't absolve someone of their own actions.

[transampete]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpj35kybG_I

[Mike]

While I agree with you, we don't know all the facts here. What was the promoting? Was it, hey, Victor is racing Mario friday night at 2 or was it banners and flyers and facebook and prizes? And just because something is going on, does not mean you have to be there to watch. That is your choice, and with that choice, there can be terrible consequences. As I have said, everyone is wrong here. Being a victim does not necessarily make you innocent. Its a tough situation but it shouldn't absolve someone of their own actions.

Adam I think we were arguing for nothing. I agree with your position. My arguments were to the several people that seem to be taking the position that the drivers hold zero blame.

Fact of the matter is, if someone is into the street racing "culture" you will NEVER convince them that they could be wrong. And the people on the other side of the spectrum will NEVER suddenly be ok with it. This debate is much like politics in that sense.

[sweetbmxrider]

Adam I think we were arguing for nothing. I agree with your position. My arguments were to the several people that seem to be taking the position that the drivers hold zero blame.

Fact of the matter is, if someone is into the street racing "culture" you will NEVER convince them that they could be wrong. And the people on the other side of the spectrum will NEVER suddenly be ok with it. This debate is much like politics in that sense.

Hahaha so I wasn't the only one getting the never ending debate feeling? Its a difficult situation and we all know the positions all parties will take, how it will play out, and what will come of it. The difficult part for me is the morality of the matter, like Jay pointed out.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Hahaha so I wasn't the only one getting the never ending debate feeling? Its a difficult situation and we all know the positions all parties will take, how it will play out, and what will come of it. The difficult part for me is the morality of the matter, like Jay pointed out.



Most likely he wont see the inside of a jail cell though. These are just scare tactics by prosecutors on a high end case where they come out, announce theyre seeking the highest and most ridiculous punishment possible to make headlines and then when it comes into court he'll most likely beat all the trumped up charges, get a suspended license, supsended sentence...do some community service and drum up some publicity for a charity, which ironically is also the same ones the prosecution supports.

in the end...it always boils down to money...same reason why this thread was started in the first place...because NHRA wasnt cashing in :D

[wrong generation]

Adam I think we were arguing for nothing. I agree with your position. My arguments were to the several people that seem to be taking the position that the drivers hold zero blame.

Fact of the matter is, if someone is into the street racing "culture" you will NEVER convince them that they could be wrong. And the people on the other side of the spectrum will NEVER suddenly be ok with it. This debate is much like politics in that sense.


mike i'm with adam on this one just trying to point out the fact the spectators should hold some responsiblity. never said the driver that hit them shouldnt be held to some as well. i think the only one with the "street racer" mentality is that dud idiot.

[heavy_chevy29]

I like the show and watch it anytime its on. I'm just a big fan of drag racing in general.The problem with the NHRA is that when it is on tv its always on at different times and its usually only and hour or so. I don't street race because quite frankly its just easier for me to go to the track. I also feel like its best to support the local tracks. when island was closed i was concerned. the closest track i would go to other than island is 2-2 1/2 hrs away.

with that being said, i have an NHRA comp lic. I get the chassis recert every 3 years, seat belts, trans blanket, ultra bellhousing, window net and the NHRA membership every 2 years. I also get the ******** NHRA physical every 2 years. these are all things we have to pay for to go fast. thats not even mentioning the cost of actually racing (fuel for the tow rig, maintenance on truck and trailer, entry fees, race fuel, nitrous, etc). the NHRA makes an already expensive hobby even more expensive. I'm all about safety and i would expect the car next to me to be held to the same standard as me regardless of the ET.

It this point, i would have to side with the street outlaw boys. I think the NHRA may have over stepped its boundaries on this one. I think if the NHRA does not want to be affiliated with the street outlaws, they should just ask them to cover the NHRA comp #s or remove them. the only real difference with the show and the NHRA is that one is on a prepped track and the other is on a street. Those SO guys have a pretty good handle on how to set a car up for the street. they put some huge hp #s down and manage to get pretty clean passes. as far as the danger factor. who are we kidding, there are wrecks at the track to. I just think the NHRA may have go a little bit to far. Who knows, maybe i'll be getting a letter lol

[Mike]

Surprised it took 5 pages, but someone finally crossed the line with street race talk. Free gift of no infraction due to the topic. But no more street race talk outside of the tv show or the legal case