Please help 96 T56 issue

[cycomiko]

I bought my car a few months ago from the original owner with 90k on it. The clutch is the original also. There was some chatter in first and maybe second. The other day it was getting hard at times to get in gear and as I lift my foot off the clutch there would be a metal clack noise as It engaged the gear and as I pulled in my driveway I could not get it into any gear. I can slam it into first only. With the car off it goes through the gears just fine. I noticed some fluid under the slave cylinder so I replaced it and its no better. I see the rod is not engaging far enough into the fork to break the new plastic straps on the new slave cylinder. Is my clutch broken or the fork or even the throwout bearing. Sorry I am new to manual world.

[ThoR294]

Did you bleed your new slave properly?

If so, Sounds like your clutch is probably done. If you can drive the car you can just shift without a clutch and see how it feels (rpm match)

[cycomiko]

Yes at first I tried to bleed it with the allen screw on the new cylinder but it was not building pressure. I took it off and pumped it by hand untill no more bubbles were showing up in the master. Was i correct?

[NJSPEEDER]

Has the clutch itself ever been replaced or just the slave?

[ThoR294]

My money is on a bad clutch.

[Blackbirdws6]

If the piston for the slave is not able to break the plastic, then you have a hydraulic issue. It should snap easily on the first press of the clutch after the slave was replaced and bled completely. Pumping the slave by hand is the right method but you need to make sure all of the bubbles are out of it. Your hand will likely start to hurt once the pressure builds in the slave. If it was easy to press the rod back in each time, again, you have a hydraulic issue which could mean either you need to bleed it more or your master may be toast.

[sweetbmxrider]

I agree with Brian. Clearly a hydraulic issue and most likely, air still in the system. How does the pedal feel? Most of the time I do master and slave together and prefer to get pre-bled units, if possible. Clutch hydraulics are much more difficult to bleed compared to your brakes.

[cycomiko]

I pumped all the air out and the clutch pedal feels fine......???

[cycomiko]

Yes it is the original clutch. Would the clutch being stuck engaged give me this issue? This is what I'm thinking is going on. Im leaning towards buying the napa NCF 1104134 for the bang for the buck. I hope this is not a Luk clutch with a napa name on it as there are really bad reviews online.

[Blackbirdws6]

Is your slave able to break the plastic strap?

[sweetbmxrider]

Yeah, if the slave isn't breaking the strap then it is not fully disengaging the clutch giving you driveability issues. Are you sure its the correct slave? The pedal has good, even pressure throughout the travel?

[cycomiko]

No. There is great pedal feel. If the clutch is stuck or the fork is broken the slave rod may not be able to extend yet. Im spitballing here. I really dont think its the hydro as I was getting metal noises prior

[Blackbirdws6]

So is the slave rod touching the fork? If it's not and you cant break the strap, hydraulics are still an issue. The clutch, throw out bearing or fork may still be toast but if you can't break that strap, a new clutch won't fix that issue. You can have some air in the system and good pedal feel. The master may not be having a good day so I would really make sure your hydraulics are in proper order, whether you go for a new clutch or not. The metal noises could be many things.

[cycomiko]

Ok so how can I check the master

[cycomiko]

Sorry for sounding like im doubting you. Im new to this so I like to narrow things down on here. After researching the symptoms you are probably right about the master. Im going to order one as soon as I can figure out which one fits lol Web sited are contradicting each other with doorman cm 350014 and cm350089. I have a 96 formula

[ThoR294]

I rarely see the masters go bad on our cars. Don't go throwing parts at it just yet. I'd get a mightvac and do an easypeasy bleed. This is what I did when my slave blew out.
http://performanceworks1.com/ls1_clutch_bleeding.htm

[sweetbmxrider]

I rarely see the masters go bad on our cars. Don't go throwing parts at it just yet. I'd get a mightvac and do an easypeasy bleed. This is what I did when my slave blew out.
http://performanceworks1.com/ls1_clutch_bleeding.htm

Don't throw parts at it? Like a clutch?

:bertstare:

[Blackbirdws6]

Sorry for sounding like im doubting you. Im new to this so I like to narrow things down on here. After researching the symptoms you are probably right about the master. Im going to order one as soon as I can figure out which one fits lol Web sited are contradicting each other with doorman cm 350014 and cm350089. I have a 96 formula

No worries. If you lost fluid and the reservoir ran dry, you could have very likely pumped a ton of air into the system. Meaning, failed slave, leaking fluid, master/reservoir run dry or got air in the system.

I would still try to bleed the master and then the slave again (it should hurt your hand to push the rod in/out) before buying a master. If you end up needing a master, I'm an AC Delco nuthugger (ACDELCO Part # 385488 {#19183018} Professional). This is from Rock Auto (sponsor) so make sure to use a coupon code.

[ThoR294]

Don't throw parts at it? Like a clutch?

:bertstare:

well i said my money is on a bad clutch (metallic noise, etc. etc.) :nick:

like Brian said any air in the system will cause havoc in these cars. I had a fun time bleeding mine till I got that vacuum pump. then it was 3 seconds lol

[cycomiko]

Im going to try the vacuum way to bleed the air out first. Then go from there...

[ThoR294]

Im going to try the vacuum way to bleed the air out first. Then go from there...

good call. report back let us know how it goes!

[sweetbmxrider]

well i said my money is on a bad clutch (metallic noise, etc. etc.) :nick:

like Brian said any air in the system will cause havoc in these cars. I had a fun time bleeding mine till I got that vacuum pump. then it was 3 seconds lol

Sounds more like the hydraulics are not fully disengaging the clutch. rotating input shaft = funny noises

If the slave is old enough to have started leaking, the master is old enough to have its own issues. I always replace hydraulics together if unknown age. I always do them with a clutch too if unknown.

[cycomiko]

I tried the vacuum idea and it worked somewhat. The master must be shot. I ordered the complete sealed pre bled ac delco unit from amazon. I will try it as soon as it arrives fri or sat

[cycomiko]

I replaced the master and slave assembly. The problem still exists. I think its the transmission mount, I hear a thud as I burp the throttle. Sometimes it shifts fine, sometimes it does not after the noise. I pry up on the transmission and it moves an inch or 2. I'm going to go check it again, but will this give me these symptoms.

[Blackbirdws6]

A bad trans mount won't cause the clutch not to work. I would definitely get the mount replaced regardless.

[cycomiko]

I did drive it around the block and it was hard to shift and then the thud and it was easier

[ThoR294]

Fix the Mount.?

[cycomiko]

Not yet. I did not have enough time. I'm going to order a poly trans mount and a poly torque arm bushing. No one stocks it so I will have to wait a few days

[sweetbmxrider]

Can you post a video of the noise/noises?

[cycomiko]

I will install the trans mount and the torque arm bushing when it comes in. If the car still makes the noise after that I will make a video.

[cycomiko]

I just put the torque arm bushing and the trans mount in and.....Its worse. It clacks as I hit the gas and let off. Maybe a ujoint -spline yoke issue or a bad throw out bearing. Ugh engine mount? WTF

[ThoR294]

Easy to check for bad u joints... Get under the car and see if you have any play in the driveshaft u joints

[cycomiko]

I just checked them both. They seem ok but old and the rubber is wearing away on the rear one. I dont think thats my issue. I also checked the motor mounts and they seem ok. I think my clutch is getting stuck engaged. The noise must be a bearing or spring or finger thats broken. I might try driving it to a shop to have them look just in case its my trans. Anyone on the forum live close to sicklerville? Save me a trip that may end with a aaa call. LOL

[sweetbmxrider]

Can you make a clear video describing what you are doing and when the noise occurs?

[LTb1ow]

Have someone watch the motor in park and give it some gas. If its moving at all, you need mounts. Poly mount and shot OE rubber mounts will make all sorts of noise.

[cycomiko]

I can't upload a video. The site is telling me that I'm missing a security token??

[cycomiko]

I think I'm gonna drop a Valeo clutch kit from rockauto in it. When I took it out to record a video there was some a lot of chatter in first and second gear.

[sweetbmxrider]

Upload to youtube

[cycomiko]

https://youtu.be/GajAy6Gzj6s

[cycomiko]

you can really hear it from 40sec on in the video. I barely touch the gas and lift it will just bang on each. AHHHH

[Blackbirdws6]

Sounds like a mount is broken. Did anyone look in the engine bay while you rev it to see if the engine shifts hard?

[sweetbmxrider]

I would definitely try slipping the clutch while someone watches the motor for excessive movement. I would also throw it up in the air and look for movement in the exhaust. Do you have headers or aftermarket exhaust? This noise doesn't occur with bumps in the road, correct?

[cycomiko]

I am taking back to the guy who welded my tsp rumble exhaust on. When I went to check the u joints I couldn't rotate the drives haft because the drives haft hits the exhaust while the suspension hangs. I jacked the rear up and it clears but not by much. I don't think it's the noise I'm hearing as it all started with a slap noise around the clutch area as the clutch engaged

[cycomiko]

ok I took it to my local mechanic to have him listen and take it for a test drive. I babied it there. He took it for a test drive and blew the clutch. All it does is spin. It wont grab at all now. I guess now I know I need a clutch and maybe other things.... He wanted 900 to replace the clutch. Needless to say its in my driveway. Getting ready to drop the tranny asap. Wish me luck on my first clutch install. Any suggestions on which clutch kit to buy for under 450. I was thinking the valeo kit. Its my daily driver so I need it to last. No major upgrades just bolt ons CAI and Cat back.

[cycomiko]

Hello? Anyone use the Valeo kit? Aamco uses LUK and swears by them. He said hes only had one ever come back. I think Im leaning toward the Valeo for $255.

[BonzoHansen]

I know a lot of guys using LUK clutches, but behind SBC. But still, good reports

[Blackbirdws6]

I have no experience with stock replacement clutches so can't help much there. Do your homework and pull the trigger.

[FlyingDutchman]

Hello? Anyone use the Valeo kit? Aamco uses LUK and swears by them. He said hes only had one ever come back. I think Im leaning toward the Valeo for $255.

I replaced my OEM clutch with a ZOOM OEM equivalent. Maybe 2 years later I started getting really bad chatter until one day on my way to work I pushed the clutch in and it went right to the floor. Turned out to be a bad TO bearing, the fork pulled the "washer" part off. So I replaced it with a Valeo/LUK from Rockauto and I haven't had an issue since. Not bad for ~$200 plus you can use the 5% discount. I also replaced the slave cylinder from a nylon body to an ebay aluminum body, was pretty cheap and probably contributed to the overall feel of the clutch.

[sweetbmxrider]

I know a lot of guys using LUK clutches, but behind SBC. But still, good reports

Great reputation behind the legendary 4.0L I6 too :nod:

[cycomiko]

Thanks guys. I'm between the Luk for 150 and the Valeo for 250. The Luk seems too cheap lol. I'LL check their warranty and decide.

[cycomiko]

hmm the napa is on sale for 215.10 online. From what i can find online this is a AMS kit. Anyone try this kit?

[cycomiko]

ugh nevermind the napa clutch is a Luk set.

[WildBillyT]

Not sure if this is true or not, but a while back I had heard that most of the pressure plates are made by Valeo and then re-branded for other companies like Duralast and Spec. Clutch discs are different though.

[cycomiko]

I just ordered the Valeo kit

[ThoR294]

Don't throw parts at it? Like a clutch?

:bertstare:

ok I took it to my local mechanic to have him listen and take it for a test drive. I babied it there. He took it for a test drive and blew the clutch.

Did I win?

Avoid SPEC clutches. mine suck ahole. I've heard good things about Competition Clutches though

[cycomiko]

Not yet Thor. I haven't dropped the Trans yet

[ThoR294]

Not yet Thor. I haven't dropped the Trans yet

Haha my money is still on a roasted clutch!!! :). Good luck I hope it fixes it!!! Keep us posted

[sweetbmxrider]

Did I win?

Avoid SPEC clutches. mine suck ahole. I've heard good things about Competition Clutches though

Some fool certainly could have ruined his clutch. Everything he described initially screamed hydraulic issue. That's why I asked for a video as one person's description may not match my interpretation.

[cycomiko]

I got the valeo clutch in today and the disc says made in Korea... WTF.. Oh well

[Blackbirdws6]

Korea is better than China.

[cycomiko]

ok I got the trans out today. That was interesting. The way to get the clutch fork off. Yikes thank god I watched a video as we were stuck on it. My brother wanted to keep pulling the trans back and I said no I think this is how you can break the fork. Any way I still dont know anything about the clutch yet as Im stuck with one bolt left in the bellhousing. Its the one closest to the drivers right foot. Damn its tight in there. I cant get anything in there straight. Im going to get a swivel socket and see how it goes

[sweetbmxrider]

Take pics of what you find

[cycomiko]

OK the center of the clutch disc had broken apart. The two parts on the back of the heads for antifreeze seem to be leaking and they are tight. How do I cure this?

[cycomiko]

Here is the back of the engine

[cycomiko]

The front side of the Trans is wet but not the clutch or pp

[FlyingDutchman]

The front side of the Trans is wet but not the clutch or pp

Trans is wet with antifreeze ? Or oil ? Is flywheel wet too ? If antifreeze maybe the bolts are the issue. If oil, check RMS, China wall (intake), oil pan and valve covers for leaks/wetness.

Those are the steam line crossover banjo bolts, they sell seals otherwise try high temp RTV? That's what I ended up using, no issues thus far. Torque to 30 ft-lbs.

How many miles are on the flywheel? I would resurface it if you're going through the work, I think it cost me $30 at a local machine shop for the service. Also, I would get a new pilot BUSHING (not the bearing, they break!), Napa sells them.

[BonzoHansen]

How many miles are on the flywheel? I would resurface it if you're going through the work, I think it cost me $30 at a local machine shop for the service. Also, I would get a new pilot BUSHING (not the bearing, they break!), Napa sells them.

all of that.

[cycomiko]

The flywheel is at the local shop for 65 bucks. Ill try to see where the engine is leaking other than the banjo bolts leaking.

[cycomiko]

Checking for leaks

[FlyingDutchman]

Checking for leaks

My trans / bellhousing looked like that. Although I rebuilt the whole motor with new seals so I can't say what the exact cause was. However, I did note the oil pan bolts were finger tight (should be around 12 ft-lbs along the side and 15? Ft-lbs at the corners) and it was always wet along the sides. Could be a combo of things too.

Have you ever re-sealed the China wall along the back of the intake ?

[BonzoHansen]

If I belive all the LS guys you should stop using fram filters. (yes I know this is not an LS)

[Blackbirdws6]

Tough to see but looks like it's leaking from the pan as the RMS appears to look dry. As you may know, LTfuns like to leak from the rear of the intake so start looking high and work your way down from there. If its dry at the rear of the intake where it meets the block, then it could be the banjo bolts on the back of the head. Normally you would notice coolant loss if it was leaking and it would be a nice puddle on the bottom of the car, not on the inside of the bellhousing (even though it could get in there).

Definitely get a good eye on the pilot bearing to make sure it is not screwed up. It would be a good time to replace it. I know folks recommend to get the bushing vs the bearing but I've not had an issue using the bearing (famous last words). If you decide to replace it, be sure to reference the depth of the current bearing so you can get the new one set at the right depth.

[sweetbmxrider]

I'd bank on intake especially with an egr still installed but I was already wrong once in this thread :lol:

[ThoR294]

yucky yucky fram

while you're in there, do your rear main seal as well.

[cycomiko]

Is it true if I take the housing off of the rear main seal the correct way to put it back on is with the oil pan lowered or off. I thought I read that somewhere. If that's the case I will just pry it out and put a new one in.

[cycomiko]

Ok I just put the clutch. This was my first clutch job. My brother helped me put it in . We got it up and almost in but it wouldnt go all the way in by 1/4 of an inch. I suggested we slide the trans out and rotate the shaft but he wanted to try the bolt pull in method which worked. I just dont feel great about it. I remember when I put up the disc and PP on the flywheel I just lined up the holes not any dowel pins. I am a rookie. Am I doomed?? I tried the clutch after the install as its still in the air and all seemed ok. What should I do??

[Blackbirdws6]

Last little bit was likely the input shaft going into the pilot bearing (or bushing). Pulling it in with the bolts isn't the best idea but it's probably fine.

[FlyingDutchman]

Ok I just put the clutch. This was my first clutch job. My brother helped me put it in . We got it up and almost in but it wouldnt go all the way in by 1/4 of an inch. I suggested we slide the trans out and rotate the shaft but he wanted to try the bolt pull in method which worked. I just dont feel great about it. I remember when I put up the disc and PP on the flywheel I just lined up the holes not any dowel pins. I am a rookie. Am I doomed?? I tried the clutch after the install as its still in the air and all seemed ok. What should I do??

I slid the driveshaft in and rotated it to line the splines up. You wouldn't have been able to get the trans that far if they weren't lined up. There are no dowel pins on the flywheel for the PP. Did you put a new bushing / bearing in with a hammer? Could have made it out-of-round causing some friction between it and the input shaft, but it'll be fine.

[cycomiko]

Yes the hammer and socket was the only way that bushing was going in. I just took it around the block and the clutch feels great. I wanted the car to warm up to check for leaks at the bajo bolts and I noticed my oil pressure gauge is now reading 0. Ugh Did I hit the pressure switch with a wrench and break it. Yes there is oil in the car

[cycomiko]

I did notice that the black body was loose on the pressure switch by loose I mean it moves in and out. Just the black plastic.

[cycomiko]

Ok its back and running and reading oil pressure now. Thanks for all of your help guys. Yes you were correct Thor

[ThoR294]

Ok its back and running and reading oil pressure now. Thanks for all of your help guys. Yes you were correct Thor

:toast: