My take on the 6thgen....

[Frosty]

So being a GM employee(yes, the company still blows but it has its perks) I get to drive pretty much everything we have.

I've had some seat time behind a 6thgen SS...I gotta say it's an impressive machine. The looks are subjective, I personally think the front end it's a bit too "busy". The interior quality is good, button placement is a bit weird but you'd get used it.

Performance wise you can definitely feel the advantage of the new chassis, the car is nimble, responsive and it just wants to GO. You can feel the difference in weight. This one that we ordered had the $3100 Brembo 6 piston caliper LPO...damn thing will put you through the windshield.

I will say this though, it's a very refined car. I personally don't think it "feels" like a muscle car, almost like a fast BMW but not quite as a nice. That's not a negative per say but it definitely is more refined than raw. It's definitely a better performer than a 5thgen but I don't think it's enough to make me get rid of mine...if anything next year I'll be looking for a slightly used 14-15 ZL1.

The 6thgen will have a ton of a potential, it'll be interesting to see what these cars do with some aftermarket support.

OK, carry on, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[ThoR294]

Apparently the 6th gen SS spanks the GT350 lol

[Blackbirdws6]

I drove a 6th gen SS very briefly as SEMA. Nice car and even in the first turn, you could feel it was just more nimble than the last car. Its a shame the SS brings a pretty steep price increase over the 6. I will say the 6 cyl is one of the better sounding ones on the market.

[Frosty]

I drove a 6th gen SS very briefly as SEMA. Nice car and even in the first turn, you could feel it was just more nimble than the last car. Its a shame the SS brings a pretty steep price increase over the 6. I will say the 6 cyl is one of the better sounding ones on the market.

The 2 that we have are around $52K, a pretty steep price. Base is like $41K, but between the NPP exhaust, different wheels and the Brembo upgrade it jacks up the price, big time.

[elle]

I still have not driven my dads. He claims it's a way better car than his 2010 was. Performance wise he said that the trans (auto) never feels like it shifts but the car is fast. The exhaust is pretty cool. He hits a button and it changes sound. It has so much electrical technology it's crazy. My wife drove it and said it's a lot more comfortable. His only complaint are the tires (run flats). Very noisy

[Paul Huryk]

Just the other day, I finally had seen one on the street.

I'm going to take one for a test drive soon - for ****s n giggles to see how it compares, but as I was never impressed with the 5th gen - it should be a no brainer.

It will take several years to match the aftermarket support as the 5th gens had - mostly due to the new LT1 motor; which like the LS1 will need several years before it can surpass its LT-1 predecessor.

[wrong generation]

the prices of new cars has gotten so out of hand its not funny. its bad enough they are able to jack up the price do to the magic of "credit" but then to put things like Brembo parts on it straight from the factory then charge an arm and a leg for them is total bs. thats what the after market is for. you buy the car then if you want to as an after thought go and buy brembo or who ever elses parts to put on your car. what ever happened to the average person being able to afford a brand new camaro ? one shouldn't have to take out a 30 year mortgage just to drive a car. look at the prices of a brand new 4th gen vs these brand new 6th gens. atleast the prices of the 4th gens base v6 and top of the line ss models even though they were still screwing you back then thru the magic of credit were more realisticly and affordably priced.

[elle]

My 2002 SS SLP I bought from orig owner had a sticker in the mid $30's. A new 2016 is mid $40's. I would say the new car is def $10k better than a 4th gen. I've been looking for a low mileage 01/02 auto, no t tops and they are going for high teens /twenty. I can buy a 2011+ 5.0 Mustang for that. All new brands of cars are a way better vehicle than 20+yrs ago. They should be expensive.

[maroman88]

the prices of new cars has gotten so out of hand its not funny. its bad enough they are able to jack up the price do to the magic of "credit" but then to put things like Brembo parts on it straight from the factory then charge an arm and a leg for them is total bs. thats what the after market is for. you buy the car then if you want to as an after thought go and buy brembo or who ever elses parts to put on your car. what ever happened to the average person being able to afford a brand new camaro ? one shouldn't have to take out a 30 year mortgage just to drive a car. look at the prices of a brand new 4th gen vs these brand new 6th gens. atleast the prices of the 4th gens base v6 and top of the line ss models even though they were still screwing you back then thru the magic of credit were more realisticly and affordably priced.

thus the reason i will never purchase a new car.

[WayFast84]

Honestly, after looking at so many cars I believe that the reason cars are so expensive is because of all the economy cars adding things and trims to be "more sophisticated". If you look at a new Civic some of them are $23,000+. Who would pay that for a Civic? Honda could do that because they are solid cars that will last 15 years. Competitors threw back up cameras, navigation and the kitchen sink in their cars as incentive to get their less proven cars and raised the price to near the Civic.

Additionally, the quality of the cars are 10x better now than they have ever been. Even base cars are nice than Corvettes were in the 90's. Not only was the interior horrible looking, the stock seats sucked and it was so uncomfortable to drive long distances. Comparing a 4th gen to a 6th gen just shouldn't be done.

[NJ Torque]

thus the reason i will never purchase a new car.

You think thats redic? How about the 95K for a new escalade... and we have 35 of them in stock...

[The_Bishop]

Part of the problem is the dealers get fully loaded models on the lot. If you order, you can get a basic 1ss for right under $39k. Not cheap, but not out of this world for what you get, either.

If I didn't need my pickup so much I'd be ordering one, personally. Maybe when the truck's paid off.

[SS Performance]

A little perspective on pricing, minimum wage, average income verses Camaro prices
1975 minimum wage $2.10 ph average income $8030 Z28 $4070.00
1985 minimum wage $3.35 ph average income $16822 Z28 $11060.00
1995 minimum wage $4.25 ph average income $24705 Z28 $18160.00
2002 minimum wage $5.15 ph average income $33252 Z28 $22830.00
2015 minimum wage $7.25 ph average income $46481 SS2 $37305.00
2016 minimum wage $7.25 ph average income not available SS2 $41300.00

The prices are base prices not optioned out. In 2002 the SS was an option. I chose the highest priced models that where comparable. The 2015 Z28 was a limited production model and the ZL is not comparable to models from the earlier years.

Just some info for you to ponder over.

Have fun.

[NJSPEEDER]

Part of the problem is the dealers get fully loaded models on the lot. If you order, you can get a basic 1ss for right under $39k. Not cheap, but not out of this world for what you get, either.

If I didn't need my pickup so much I'd be ordering one, personally. Maybe when the truck's paid off.

The problem I see over and over again is the addiction of manufacturers to require massive packages of unrelated items if you want one thing. Before I bought my car I was looking at the Focus RS, only options I wanted were the HID headlights and fog lights, according to the website it was a few hundred bucks but the second I clicked on it I was asked to picked one of two $3k+ option groups that included all kinds of other crap I couldn't care less about. thats how the prices rack up so fast.

If I could take a base Camaro/Mustang/Challenger and just add performance stuff without wasting money on uncomfortable and overpriced seats, stereo that I won't listen to, huge and heavy pimp rims(with matching SUV performance-ish tires), and all the rest of that crap I would probably be spending time figuring out which one I was buying. But since the only way to get one upgrade is to spend excessive amounts of money on fully pimped out mode I'll stick to an econo box and tinkering with old cars.

[Frosty]

Part of the problem is the dealers get fully loaded models on the lot. If you order, you can get a basic 1ss for right under $39k. Not cheap, but not out of this world for what you get, either.

If I didn't need my pickup so much I'd be ordering one, personally. Maybe when the truck's paid off.

The one we sold/I drove was a base of $41k. Magnetic ride, npp exhaust, black wheels and the brembo brakes jacked it up.

IMO the npp and magnetic are a must...

[NastyEllEssWon]

A little perspective on pricing, minimum wage, average income verses Camaro prices
1975 minimum wage $2.10 ph average income $8030 Z28 $4070.00
1985 minimum wage $3.35 ph average income $16822 Z28 $11060.00
1995 minimum wage $4.25 ph average income $24705 Z28 $18160.00
2002 minimum wage $5.15 ph average income $33252 Z28 $22830.00
2015 minimum wage $7.25 ph average income $46481 SS2 $37305.00
2016 minimum wage $7.25 ph average income not available SS2 $41300.00

The prices are base prices not optioned out. In 2002 the SS was an option. I chose the highest priced models that where comparable. The 2015 Z28 was a limited production model and the ZL is not comparable to models from the earlier years.

Just some info for you to ponder over.

Have fun.


the problem with this is that originally a camaro only cost HALF a years salary. not 90%. This actually shows how skewed market inflation is compared to the inflation of earning power by the average person. just saying.

[sweetbmxrider]

So you think there is a consistency between what a Camaro was in 1975 and what it is in 2015? Including options, materials, and overall engineering?

[BonzoHansen]

So you think there is a consistency between what a Camaro was in 1975 and what it is in 2015? Including options, materials, and overall engineering?

Oh hell no lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

So you think there is a consistency between what a Camaro was in 1975 and what it is in 2015? Including options, materials, and overall engineering?



No not at all. Just pointing out that buying power isn't what its used to be, so certain cars that were once considered bang for the buck cars are no longer the bargain they used to be brand new.

[sweetbmxrider]

No not at all. Just pointing out that buying power isn't what its used to be, so certain cars that were once considered bang for the buck cars are no longer the bargain they used to be brand new.

Is that true? Or did the company listen to the fan base to build what they wanted at a relatively affordable price point given the materials, engineering, etc? There are plenty of bang for the buck cars out there. Then there are cars that are more than that, both monetarily and overall quality. I guess I think the camaro grew up from the bang for the buck it was once considered.

[NJSPEEDER]

The fan base? Not really, they just went for a different market segment. Basically instead of trying to offer a car that a young person with a job can afford(profit via sales volume) they went for the better margain middle aged market, people both willing and able to afford a little nostalgia(profit per unit)

[wrong generation]

given the fact that as technology gets more advanced it gets cheaper. and the fact that most of the tech and stuff in the 2016 camaro is atleast 10-15 years old tech. there is no valid reason for the over inflated price of the 2016 camaro. there is nothing in the camaro that depends such high price tags.

[redsoxsstink]

given the fact that as technology gets more advanced it gets cheaper. and the fact that most of the tech and stuff in the 2016 camaro is atleast 10-15 years old tech. there is no valid reason for the over inflated price of the 2016 camaro. there is nothing in the camaro that depends such high price tags.

the brand new lt1 engine? magnetic ride? massive brembos? light(er) weight aluminum chassis? it all doesnt come free.

hi-tech tech is not cheap. regardless how advance production methods are, the materials that are within these components are not cheap. in addition it costs money to engineer a car to today's standards, millions are spent on emissions crap that is required now and not previously. the consumer has to pay for all this time and development in the long run. manufactures wont do it for free.

[wrong generation]

the brand new lt1 engine? magnetic ride? massive brembos? light(er) weight aluminum chassis? it all doesnt come free.

never said it should be free. just that there is nothing on car thats new tech.


the brand new lt1 engine?

there is nothing really brand new about this engine.

magnetic ride?.

this is not new tech. its 14 years old was first used by gm on the 2002 caddy

massive brembos.

nothing new here. also this goes back to what i said about the aftermarket earlier.

light(er) weight aluminum chassis?

again still not seeing anything brand new. hell gm used this tech back in 1996 on the ev1. and it was used for cars way before that.

[sweetbmxrider]

I think you are being very silly right now.

The fan base? Not really, they just went for a different market segment. Basically instead of trying to offer a car that a young person with a job can afford(profit via sales volume) they went for the better margain middle aged market, people both willing and able to afford a little nostalgia(profit per unit)

So you'd rather the camaro turn into a cobalt?

[Blackbirdws6]

If federal regulations didn't require all the extra items in today's cars, they would put the cost in other places or offer the stripped down performance car you are referring to. The market has shown they can build an expensive Camaro and people will pay for it. Just business.

[BigAls87Z28]

Everyone has to play by the same rules.
The performance of the new SS is outstanding and it looks as if the six is no slouch either, again.

Price wise, new Camaro is right in line with Mustang and Challenger RT Scat Pack (regular RT isn't as powerful as GT or SS). Expensive, but no more than anything else.


As for "affordable" performance, There is still plenty there. 275hp turbocharged 4, 335hp V6 engines. There is a 40hp difference between the 3.6 liter V6 and the Challenger's 5.7 liter V8.

The Camaro, along with Mustang and every other car out there, continues to evolve and become stronger, better, and faster every generation because that is what we as fans and consumers demand it to be. It's the American way.

But when the new one comes out and you have to pay a little bit more for that? Well, that's the other side of the American way.


If anything, it's a bit more expensive because it's made in America, again.


I can't wait to drive one as it sounds like it drives like a 1LE turned to 11.

[sweetbmxrider]

I think Brian could weigh in with the best opinion on owning a highly modified 4th gen vs signing paperwork and taking a monthly payment with the hell cat. I wonder which he'll like better.....

[NastyEllEssWon]

I think Brian could weigh in with the best opinion on owning a highly modified 4th gen vs signing paperwork and taking a monthly payment with the hell cat. I wonder which he'll like better.....



You're also talking about a $70,000 car compared to a 15 yearish old car that retailed for 30 grand. Of course he'll like it better.

Tim makes a good point as does the others who point out the features cater towards a different crowd. I fell in love with the F-bodies because they were an entry level performance car...but now they're so expensive that when you get into the price range for a Camaro you can start looking at better options than a Camaro.

[sweetbmxrider]

You're also talking about a $70,000 car compared to a 15 yearish old car that retailed for 30 grand. Of course he'll like it better.

Tim makes a good point as does the others who point out the features cater towards a different crowd. I fell in love with the F-bodies because they were an entry level performance car...but now they're so expensive that when you get into the price range for a Camaro you can start looking at better options than a Camaro.

Clearly they were never entry level looking at the prices. Maybe when they first came out but comparing a first gen to a sixth gen is beyond laughable. To the first point, the amount of money, time, etc put into the 4th gen to make it comparable yet not on the same level as the new car option furthers the point. Everyone seems to want the moon and the stars for pennies on a dollar. Its not going to happen.

[Blackbirdws6]

Folks have to remember there are different types of enthusiasts. Those who want a blank slate (cheaper base car, good engine, etc) and want to do what they wish with it (whether build it themselves or send it to a shop for a $10k+ upgrade). Then there is the group that would rather just spend some extra money, get the upgrades they would have eventually done and have a warranty to go with it. Then there is the crazier group who buys the top tier model and then proceeds to spend more on upgrades for the sake of being different or just want to have more. These segments can be broken down further but I think you get what I'm saying.

I agree pricing for cars has generally gotten out of hand but the market is supporting these types of vehicles and prices. You can spend just about $30k for a Civic these days.... That is what I found so appealing about the G8 GT ($29,995 base price and loaded it was around $33k). It offered everything I generally wanted in a good size package. You won't find a V8 rear wheel drive new car for under $30k. Maybe there is that amazing deal or that left over model on the lot but that's few and far between. It is also a fact that over 70% of new car loans are leases, not purchases. That tells you something. Manufacturers can increase the price which marginally increases the lease payment for customers. The car is now valued "higher" from an industry perspectiveand the consumer usually rationalizes that they can afford the new car since the incremental price difference in payment is justified. "My 5th gen was nice but man, this SS is such a better performer so it's def worth the extra couple hundred a month in payments."

I think we can all agree cars of today perform far better than those of the past and with added safety to boot. You expect the cost to be the same? Sure, brakes are brakes, shocks are shocks, etc but progress requires $. More performance in general means components now need an upgrade in durability and quality to last through the warranty period.

Bottom line, the car industry is a business and if the market supports a $47k SS Camaro, then GM will keep making them. If you want a more budget friendly performance vehicle, sorry but you will need to "settle" for a V6 Camaro. Most guys don't like the thought of that but keeping it in perspective, the new V6 Camaro will likely embarrass the older V8 models in many ways.

Personally, I went back and forth on spending the money on the Hellcat. Not to discredit the car or my decision, but deep down it is a high $20k car with a bunch of engine/drivetrain and cosmetic upgrades. Is that worth $30k more? I think you know my answer to that one. I considered upgrading the G8 to be a Hellcat killer but knowing me, I would have taken it a touch too far. I guarantee it would cost me at least $30k to produce a well sorted vehicle by a shop and then what am I left with? A highly modded G8 that would get pennies on the dollar for the upgrades should I decide to sell it. Like all modified cars, they will have their quirks and little issues. A new car can be the same but if that happens, I take it to the dealer and have them handle it. It's a very different vehicle than the TA but that was the point. The bird is the weekend toy where I can row the gears and makes lots of noise. The Hellcat is the car I can pack full of people, ride in comfort with all the bells and whistles while leaving it just as it is.

[NJSPEEDER]

Has nothing to do with what I want, its a business model. One that GM has been trending their image lines towards since before the bailout. Look at the feature lists and price ramps of the feature models and Caddy as a brand. They are moving away from having models in every catagory for every consumer and towards having simple introductory models and high margain aspirational models.


If it was what I would want there would be a way to order a Camaro with a V8, upgraded suspension, and manual tranmission without having to pay for a package that includes leather power seats, super upgraded stereo, or any of the other things that I have no interest in. Unfortunately none of the big three make any such models any more.

[Blackbirdws6]

If it was what I would want there would be a way to order a Camaro with a V8, upgraded suspension, and manual tranmission without having to pay for a package that includes leather power seats, super upgraded stereo, or any of the other things that I have no interest in. Unfortunately none of the big three make any such models any more.

As you said, its a business model. It allows them to package items in bundles so folks have less of the ability to rationalize the individual prices, easier to build, reduces complexity, construct-ability, etc. The market for guys looking for what you want is shrinking so like any good business, you cater to the bigger market.

[sweetbmxrider]

Has nothing to do with what I want, its a business model. One that GM has been trending their image lines towards since before the bailout. Look at the feature lists and price ramps of the feature models and Caddy as a brand. They are moving away from having models in every catagory for every consumer and towards having simple introductory models and high margain aspirational models.


If it was what I would want there would be a way to order a Camaro with a V8, upgraded suspension, and manual tranmission without having to pay for a package that includes leather power seats, super upgraded stereo, or any of the other things that I have no interest in. Unfortunately none of the big three make any such models any more.

No because that is a terrible business model. Most people buy cars as dd's as well. They like having seats that can be sat in to california, a super upgraded stereo that also has a back up cam and can adjust the car on the fly, and all of the other things you don't have an interest in the majority do. You would be the smallest minority wanting a stripped enthusiast pavement pounder. At that point, wouldn't you want to build the car yourself to your desires and standards?

[NJSPEEDER]

Yes, everyone wants and can afford the most expensive version of everything ever invented. Thats why there are so many millions of Ferrari's roaming the streets of NJ and Hyumdai's are such a rarity.

It's not an absurd notion to think that people aren't always interested in every possible feature available. Even looking back to 4th gens, lots of Z28's with cloth, manual adjust seats even though power leather was available.

Base models, across every range, outsell the fully equipped versions. Its not an industry secret. Its also not a business secret to have clearly defined tiers of products on offer. Some priced so that people can join and be comfortable with the brand and others that people will aspire to buy in the future.

[sweetbmxrider]

Yes, everyone wants and can afford the most expensive version of everything ever invented. Thats why there are so many millions of Ferrari's roaming the streets of NJ and Hyumdai's are such a rarity.

It's not an absurd notion to think that people aren't always interested in every possible feature available. Even looking back to 4th gens, lots of Z28's with cloth, manual adjust seats even though power leather was available.

Base models, across every range, outsell the fully equipped versions. Its not an industry secret. Its also not a business secret to have clearly defined tiers of products on offer. Some priced so that people can join and be comfortable with the brand and others that people will aspire to buy in the future.

Hence the base offerings. Not every camaro is a fully optioned z28/ss/whatever. You are right its not an absurd notion to think a practical person wants a practical car. I'm sure car companies also realized a muscle/sports car is impractical and tiered the options as such. I don't get why there is such butt hurt over a highly desirable car that can perform and be comfortable/entertain/used daily/creature comforts that the majority market wants. You being the minority wanting what no one wants will never sway them. You can buy the z28 track car actually. Highly tested around the ring and proven to perform with no bull ****. You can also hop on craigslist and buy a budget beater to build to your liking.

[NJSPEEDER]

Can you get an SS/Z28 that only adds the V8 and suspension upgrades? The answer is no. Just because a more basic model exists doesn't mean that all the price points and desires of the entire market are met.

I don't see how it qualifies as butt hurt that I don't want to spend my own money on a laundry list of options I have no interest in. Its a business decision, GM decided which markets to go after and how. Doesn't mean every person on the planet fits into their plan.

And however fast anything goes around the ring with a professional driver isn't of any great consequence to me. Don't live near teh ring and not a professional driver. Also, once again, not interested in all of the mark up and extras included in the cost of the Z/28

I do find it comical that you seem to understand and acknowledge that less costly cars do sell but somehow say in the next breath that it is a minority opinion and no one would ever buy them. Which is it? Do les expensive models sell or should all base models be done away with in favor of completely loaded models?

[sweetbmxrider]

Can you get an SS/Z28 that only adds the V8 and suspension upgrades? The answer is no. Just because a more basic model exists doesn't mean that all the price points and desires of the entire market are met.

I don't see how it qualifies as butt hurt that I don't want to spend my own money on a laundry list of options I have no interest in. Its a business decision, GM decided which markets to go after and how. Doesn't mean every person on the planet fits into their plan.

And however fast anything goes around the ring with a professional driver isn't of any great consequence to me. Don't live near teh ring and not a professional driver. Also, once again, not interested in all of the mark up and extras included in the cost of the Z/28

I do find it comical that you seem to understand and acknowledge that less costly cars do sell but somehow say in the next breath that it is a minority opinion and no one would ever buy them. Which is it? Do les expensive models sell or should all base models be done away with in favor of completely loaded models?

I can't find exact numbers but didn't the 5th gen outsell the mustang? That must speak of who wants what in the general market. You don't want a professionally tested product with proven performance? What do you want? To slap random parts together and hope it works? Or do you research the products you buy, that are tested to their limits by professionals, and have proven results? It is comical that less costly cars do sell. I would never want one. But some people like an eco box to rack up miles and drive a to b m-f with no ****s given other than getting there and getting home. Those same people don't give two ****s about a sports car. I can only imagine the numbers have been run and they know what makes sales happen. The same feathers were ruffled in the jeep world when jeep introduced the 4 door wrangler.....and they sell like fuggin crazy. They sell with premium interiors and power windows and automatics and hard tops! I drive my 2 door, manual everything every day and love every second of it. I am clearly the minority.

[BigAls87Z28]

What you consider a "suspension upgrade" might vary from person to person.

If you go right now and buy a regular 1SS, that would be plenty car for anyone out there and outperform anything under 40k.

Chevrolet has offered upgraded packages like their much admired magnetic suspension, larger caliper and two-piece rotor, and dual mode exhaust as an option. If you want these options, you can add them as you see fit and you do not need leather seating or an RS package to get them.

In all honesty, a 275hp turbo Camaro with 18" wheels would satisfy 70% of the buying public, and you could get it dolled up under 32k.

I just built one on Chevy's site. 1LT with the 2.0T, 6spd manual (standard) with RS package, upgraded cooling and 4 piston Brembos is under 30k.

275hp, 300ftlbs, manual trans, 3400lbs, 4 piston Brembo brakes, fancy LED accented lighting, and pure America for under 30k.

[WayFast84]

That actually sounds like an amazing bargain for under 30k . It will seem like a much better bargain once Cobb makes an accessport for it.

[NJSPEEDER]

I can't find exact numbers but didn't the 5th gen outsell the mustang? That must speak of who wants what in the general market. You don't want a professionally tested product with proven performance? What do you want? To slap random parts together and hope it works? Or do you research the products you buy, that are tested to their limits by professionals, and have proven results? It is comical that less costly cars do sell. I would never want one. But some people like an eco box to rack up miles and drive a to b m-f with no ****s given other than getting there and getting home. Those same people don't give two ****s about a sports car. I can only imagine the numbers have been run and they know what makes sales happen. The same feathers were ruffled in the jeep world when jeep introduced the 4 door wrangler.....and they sell like fuggin crazy. They sell with premium interiors and power windows and automatics and hard tops! I drive my 2 door, manual everything every day and love every second of it. I am clearly the minority.

So on the basis of what you are saying anything that sells must be the majority of the market and therefore nothing else should exist. So all you really want is whatever the most popular trim of the most popular car is, right?

We are talking about the value that cars deliver to individuals, to that ends I, as in me personally, see no value is being forced to pay for a pile of random and unrelated options just to get the one or two that I want. Its that simple. I'm not saying others don't want or are not willing to pay for all those things, I am saying I'm not interested and I know there are others that agree with me.

I don't know where you came up with the magical comparison of brand new car featured the way someone would like it and some one paycheck hero on craigslist, but its completely ridiculous. A V8 equipped car that lacks power leather seats or extra speakers or any other optional extra would in no way change the Camaro having been tested or driven around the ring.

[sweetbmxrider]

So on the basis of what you are saying anything that sells must be the majority of the market and therefore nothing else should exist. So all you really want is whatever the most popular trim of the most popular car is, right?

We are talking about the value that cars deliver to individuals, to that ends I, as in me personally, see no value is being forced to pay for a pile of random and unrelated options just to get the one or two that I want. Its that simple. I'm not saying others don't want or are not willing to pay for all those things, I am saying I'm not interested and I know there are others that agree with me.

I don't know where you came up with the magical comparison of brand new car featured the way someone would like it and some one paycheck hero on craigslist, but its completely ridiculous. A V8 equipped car that lacks power leather seats or extra speakers or any other optional extra would in no way change the Camaro having been tested or driven around the ring.

If you want to run a successful business, yes. Most individuals would equate more with better value unlike you. Most people would want all the nonsense you hate. Maybe you should try building the car and see what they actually "stick" you with. Seems you can option a car out with relative ease.

[NJSPEEDER]

I've built the Camaro plenty of times, can't get it formatted the way I want. The most power with the least non performacne related options isn't available. As nice as the turbo 4 sounds as a platform it doesn't appeal to me knowing a few hundred more HP can be optioned.

As far as business, there are a lot of ways to make money. Not all require on being all things for all people or making everyone take whatever is supposed to be popular. Across brands and across time there are piles of examples of car companies eliminating features from cars and in many cases people even paying more for the honor. You can look at the old MOPAR Neon ACR program or the recent lines of Lambo lightweights, history shows there is a market for building performance cars with less other stuff.

[sweetbmxrider]

Are you comparing a camaro to a lambo? :lol: I mean, the z28 is like what you are describing but you hate that too. Part of running a good business is maintaining image. Imagine showing off your brand new ss with a big motor and no stereo or ac and cloth seats. That would discourage the uninformed buyer. Now show the same car with hid headlights, 9 speaker stereo, and heated leather seats. Wow, the uninformed can't believe how many features it has!

[LTb1ow]

I keep trying to build the camero of my dreams to impress all the guys in the trailer park, but side pipes, muncie 5 speed and 3/4 race cam aren't being shown. I won't even get into the lack of double hump heads.

Its outlandish.

[Featherburner]

I keep trying to build the Camaro of my dreams to impress all the guys in the trailer park, but side pipes, muncie 5 speed and 3/4 race cam aren't being shown. I won't even get into the lack of double hump heads.

Its outlandish.There's your problem! The Muncie was a 4 speed.

[BonzoHansen]

There's your problem! The Muncie was a 4 speed.

:rofl:

[WildBillyT]

There's your problem! The Muncie was a 4 speed.

Reverse is a speed. Right?


Are you comparing a camaro to a lambo? :lol: I mean, the z28 is like what you are describing but you hate that too. Part of running a good business is maintaining image. Imagine showing off your brand new ss with a big motor and no stereo or ac and cloth seats. That would discourage the uninformed buyer. Now show the same car with hid headlights, 9 speaker stereo, and heated leather seats. Wow, the uninformed can't believe how many features it has!

To your point, the buying public is more sophisticated and more picky with what they want now. Even econoboxes are designed to feel luxurious. Deleting commonly desired features is a step backward.

There will probably be a 1LE model that's less optioned up but it will still include creature comforts that make the car appeal to a broader audience.

[V]

The only thing keeping me from getting a 2016 LT/RS is the fact that the back seat is just too small. Being that I can barely fit 1 child seat in the back of my 2014, there's no way in the future I could fit 2 comfortably. It really not practical for even a front seat passenger with the child carrier in place.

But with that said, I still like the new camaro very much. The 4cyl actually would be something I would consider. The current 3.6l v6 isn't that bad and actually does make the car fun enough for a daily driver. My old sky had a 2.0T and was quick(yes lighter i know) and my moms ATS sedan has the 2.0T and moves out pretty well. I wonder if the current 2.0T responds to mods just as well and the 2.0 LNF ecotech turbo motors did.

Last night I priced out a few combos of the camaro. A great base daily driver came in at like 28k and change. Thats a 2.0 LT with the RS package. My current '14 is an LS model and I really wanted the RS package but I wasn't willing to spend the extra money. In order to get the rs package, you needed at least an LT model(~3k more than a LS), and then another 1500 for the rs package. I ended up just buying used RS lights front and rear and installed them, along with a spoiler and body color roof molding overlays. So for 2016, I like that they did away with the pointless LS package.

Since the fact the car is simply a 2-door, that is what will prevent me from getting one anytime soon. Instead I'll be looking at some used performance 4 door sedans when my lease is up, like a 09+ CTS-V. But I do wish I could get a 6th gen camaro.

[Frosty]

:rofl:

/thread

[Frosty]

but now they're so expensive that when you get into the price range for a Camaro you can start looking at better options than a Camaro.

Not that I'm drooling over the 6thgen, and IMO $50k for a well optioned SS is steep,but what cars are a better option for that price?

[BigAls87Z28]

I've built the Camaro plenty of times, can't get it formatted the way I want. The most power with the least non performacne related options isn't available. As nice as the turbo 4 sounds as a platform it doesn't appeal to me knowing a few hundred more HP can be optioned.

As far as business, there are a lot of ways to make money. Not all require on being all things for all people or making everyone take whatever is supposed to be popular. Across brands and across time there are piles of examples of car companies eliminating features from cars and in many cases people even paying more for the honor. You can look at the old MOPAR Neon ACR program or the recent lines of Lambo lightweights, history shows there is a market for building performance cars with less other stuff.

SRT4 ACR, SV Lambos, and other cars like the GT3 RS have less things but cost more, way more in some cases, than the regular car it's based off of.

Tim, you are part of a very small and decreasing minority of people who want a box with an engine. You are asking for dry-aged waygu for "club pack" pricing.

But, you can buy a 1SS with bigger brakes and suspension without all the leather and other "luxuries" for under 43k. I left off the dual-mode as most people will just go with a full exhaust.

I wish they offered a dry-sump system like they offer for the Corvette.

[LTb1ow]

https://d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net/photos/9/pu/nd/MRpUNdTCbFKerqk-556x313-noPad.jpg

Thread saved.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Not that I'm drooling over the 6thgen, and IMO $50k for a well optioned SS is steep,but what cars are a better option for that price?



Corvette territory.

[sweetbmxrider]

Corvette territory.

Sure, you are getting there but not all the way. Plus, a vette is not comparable to a camaro from a dd and/or practicality comparison in my eyes.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Sure, you are getting there but not all the way. Plus, a vette is not comparable to a camaro from a dd and/or practicality comparison in my eyes.



lol who the hell are you to tell a consumer what is and what is not viable. 50 grand will get you a base model Corvette which looks way better and performs just as good...if not better. Camaros have always been the car to give you Corvette performance without a Corvette price....but it's to the point that if Im spending at least 40 grand to step into a v8 Camaro...you might as well plop down the extra 10k down on the backend of the price and go with the Vette.

[V]

I also have to say the rear seat of a 5th gen is basically useless already, can't see the 6th gen being any better. If i was in the market for a 2 door car, a vette would be more attractive than the 6th gen at those prices.

However, In the end, we are all talking about or describing our own preferences and wishes for what cars would come with or what they would cost. I was at a dealer with a new cts-v with a sticker over 100k... imo, thats insane. But that's me, someone will buy it though. The reality is that car companies build stuff and sell stuff based on research and numbers. We, the enthusiasts, don't really control those numbers. We just have to be thankful that the market allows for such great depreciation that in a few years, these amazing cars are actually somewhat affordable to us, the regular people.

[sweetbmxrider]

lol who the hell are you to tell a consumer what is and what is not viable. 50 grand will get you a base model Corvette which looks way better and performs just as good...if not better. Camaros have always been the car to give you Corvette performance without a Corvette price....but it's to the point that if Im spending at least 40 grand to step into a v8 Camaro...you might as well plop down the extra 10k down on the backend of the price and go with the Vette.

Not sure what you meant initially but everyone's situation is different. A camaro has 4 seats, a corvette 2. Looks are subjective and I am not crazy about the c7. MSRP is from $55,400 for a vette and $37,295 for a 1ss. What you choose from there is your choice, both will add up quick. Not everyone has $18,105 to plop down on the back end. If you do, may I suggest sacking up to the z06? :)

[NastyEllEssWon]

Not sure what you meant initially but everyone's situation is different. A camaro has 4 seats, a corvette 2. Looks are subjective and I am not crazy about the c7. MSRP is from $55,400 for a vette and $37,295 for a 1ss. What you choose from there is your choice, both will add up quick. Not everyone has $18,105 to plop down on the back end. If you do, may I suggest sacking up to the z06? :)



I'd rather have a base model, bare bones Corvette than a Camaro Fully optioned with things I'll never use. As V said, the backseats arent very useful on the 6th gens anyway and I have a Focus for daily driving. Stretching from 37k to 55k is a lot different from stretching from 37k to 75k. Even at that price, 37k...that gets you a REALLY NICE low miled, well optioned C6 if you don't like the C7's.

37k for a base v8 camaro seems steep considering Challengers and Mustangs can get you there for 30k and look 10 times better doing it. Just my opinion though

[sweetbmxrider]

I'd rather have a base model, bare bones Corvette than a Camaro Fully optioned with things I'll never use. As V said, the backseats arent very useful on the 6th gens anyway and I have a Focus for daily driving. Stretching from 37k to 55k is a lot different from stretching from 37k to 75k. Even at that price, 37k...that gets you a REALLY NICE low miled, well optioned C6 if you don't like the C7's.

37k for a base v8 camaro seems steep considering Challengers and Mustangs can get you there for 30k and look 10 times better doing it. Just my opinion though

Exactly, its your opinion as is mine that a camaro is more of a dd than a vette. Sure, I'd dd either at any trim level but money is an object thus I drive an 18 year old heep :D So when money becomes an object yet performance is still desired, some options are out of the picture and there is something to suite your needs.

[The_Bishop]

For me it's very simple: I can take my Wife and Daughter for a ride in the Camaro. Can't do that with the vette. Those back seats aren't useless, after all.

[V]

For me it's very simple: I can take my Wife and Daughter for a ride in the Camaro. Can't do that with the vette. Those back seats aren't useless, after all.


I can't. (2014 camaro) With my son in the carrier in the back seat,(on passenger side) the front passenger seat has to be so far up that my wife, or any adult, would be unable to sit in the front seat. There's about 8-10 inches between the front of the seat and the glovebox. And that's with maximum of just 2"-3" of space in back so the seat doesn't touch the carrier. In the past year, not once have I been able to fit my 3 member family in my car all at the same time. My 2001 SS was not that bad from what I remember.

[The_Bishop]

Yeah, the carrier makes things awkward. My daughter's 10, so she's out of the carrier/booster seat thing.

Everyone fits in my '98. Haven't tried to cram everyone into a 6th gen, mostly because I don't have one.

[Frosty]

Now we're comparing a new 6thgen to a low mile used C6? Lmao....really?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Now we're comparing a new 6thgen to a low mile used C6? Lmao....really?



I mean you can compare it to a C7 but it'd get its ass wiped in every category, including bang for the buck, considering that youll be paying about 40k just to step into a v8 Camaro.

[sweetbmxrider]

I mean you can compare it to a C7 but it'd get its ass wiped in every category, including bang for the buck, considering that youll be paying about 40k just to step into a v8 Camaro.

Except for cost and passenger capacity :nick:

[NastyEllEssWon]

Except for cost and passenger capacity :nick:



yeah but then it gets wiped by Dodge and the Charger hardcore in those departments :D It would be a different ballgame if the Camaro was the best looking in its class but Challenger/Charger/Mustang are lightyears ahead in looks.

[Blackbirdws6]

yeah but then it gets wiped by Dodge and the Charger hardcore in those departments :D It would be a different ballgame if the Camaro was the best looking in its class but Challenger/Charger/Mustang are lightyears ahead in looks.

Looks are entirely subjective and comparing a 4 door to a 2 door is simply apples to oranges. Personally, I really like the front end of the new Camaro, the rear, not so much but its growing on me. The Mustang is so so from the front in non-GT350 trim but the rear 3/4 is great. Challenger is just a huge car and does not really do much for me. I think it looks cool but can't see myself owning one.

[Frosty]

yeah but then it gets wiped by Dodge and the Charger hardcore in those departments :D It would be a different ballgame if the Camaro was the best looking in its class but Challenger/Charger/Mustang are lightyears ahead in looks.

aaaaaaaand not in quality. Have you sat in a new Mustang? The interior is a flaming POS, as are the looks(but that is completely subjective).

[Frosty]

I mean you can compare it to a C7 but it'd get its ass wiped in every category, including bang for the buck, considering that youll be paying about 40k just to step into a v8 Camaro.

OK, and? $50K isn't NEW C7 territory. $50K is also a ridicuously optioned 6thgen with a pointless 6 pot caliper upgrade a silly $2K black wheel option.

If you stick with a 2SS, NPP exhaust, NAV and the Magnetic Ride setup you're closer to $46-47K, WAY below a base C7 price tag no matter how you slice it.

You can't compare to the two, IMO I'd never DD a C7, or any Corvette for that matter(yes, I did on my '98 but I was young and didn't care), a Camaro you could...so that practicality issue now comes to the forefront.

I'm not saying you should fall in love with the 6thgen, I'm still on the fence about the looks but you CANNOT argue the performance and quality of it....it's A LOT better and nicer than the 5th's(and I absolutely love my 5th, especially the mods, the way it sits etc) but facts are fact. A few magazines(take it for what it's worth) have even said forget the Camaro going after the Mustang, it should go Euro hunting...to me that says a lot. :shrug:

Magazine though don't mean ****, I've driven these cars, performance and quality wise they're the real deal...but everyone in internet land can assume, form opinions, and judge without even seeing one in person let alone driving one. :rofl:

This is just my opinion and experiences with the car and industry, we all have opinions, take it for what it's worth.

[BigAls87Z28]

I finally got to see a 2 SS/RS at my local dealer and that really sharp blue color. I am totally in love with the smaller proportions. It was parked next to a 5th gen and you could really tell that this car is noticeably smaller in every dimension. It had that dark tan color interior which made it look extremely upscale. It was in the mid 40s but I was very much in love.

[Blackbirdws6]

I finally got to see a 2 SS/RS at my local dealer and that really sharp blue color. I am totally in love with the smaller proportions. It was parked next to a 5th gen and you could really tell that this car is noticeably smaller in every dimension. It had that dark tan color interior which made it look extremely upscale. It was in the mid 40s but I was very much in love.

So when do we get to see the new car?

[BonzoHansen]

I finally got to see a 2 SS/RS at my local dealer and that really sharp blue color. I am totally in love with the smaller proportions. It was parked next to a 5th gen and you could really tell that this car is noticeably smaller in every dimension. It had that dark tan color interior which made it look extremely upscale. It was in the mid 40s but I was very much in love.

Huh, when we said things about the portly sized fifth gen you said we were nuts.

[Frosty]

I finally got to see a 2 SS/RS at my local dealer and that really sharp blue color. I am totally in love with the smaller proportions. It was parked next to a 5th gen and you could really tell that this car is noticeably smaller in every dimension. It had that dark tan color interior which made it look extremely upscale. It was in the mid 40s but I was very much in love.

That blue is sharp, we sold one with the black wheel option the other day, guy traded in a 700 mile '14 white Z/28 for it. I made sure I drove it for, ahem, safety purposes before my tech safety checked it. :mrgreen:

[sweetbmxrider]

Do they take trade ins on 87 camaros????

[BonzoHansen]

That blue is sharp, we sold one with the black wheel option the other day, guy traded in a 700 mile '14 white Z/28 for it. I made sure I drove it for, ahem, safety purposes before my tech safety checked it. :mrgreen:

Did he find out the Z28 is not a daily driver?

[Frosty]

Did he find out the Z28 is not a daily driver?

He has a ton of $$, wanted a 6thgen and bought one.

[NastyEllEssWon]

OK, and? $50K isn't NEW C7 territory. $50K is also a ridicuously optioned 6thgen with a pointless 6 pot caliper upgrade a silly $2K black wheel option.

If you stick with a 2SS, NPP exhaust, NAV and the Magnetic Ride setup you're closer to $46-47K, WAY below a base C7 price tag no matter how you slice it.

You can't compare to the two, IMO I'd never DD a C7, or any Corvette for that matter(yes, I did on my '98 but I was young and didn't care), a Camaro you could...so that practicality issue now comes to the forefront.

I'm not saying you should fall in love with the 6thgen, I'm still on the fence about the looks but you CANNOT argue the performance and quality of it....it's A LOT better and nicer than the 5th's(and I absolutely love my 5th, especially the mods, the way it sits etc) but facts are fact. A few magazines(take it for what it's worth) have even said forget the Camaro going after the Mustang, it should go Euro hunting...to me that says a lot. :shrug:

Magazine though don't mean ****, I've driven these cars, performance and quality wise they're the real deal...but everyone in internet land can assume, form opinions, and judge without even seeing one in person let alone driving one. :rofl:

This is just my opinion and experiences with the car and industry, we all have opinions, take it for what it's worth.


My point was that at 40k for a Camaro its not that far of a stretch to reach for the Corvette, especially when Ford and Dodge are offering v8's starting in the low 30s. I havent seen any v8 Camaros for under 40k at all. Camaro just seems a bit overpriced when it competition is nicer (imo).

like BLS said though, looks are subjective...as are options...but the Camaro used to be king of the bang for your buck...now its nothing of the sort.

[WildBillyT]

Did he find out the Z28 is not a daily driver?

There is a guy near me with an Audi R8 V10 that uses it as a daily. As in drives it in the snow.

[sweetbmxrider]

There is a guy near me with an Audi R8 V10 that uses it as a daily. As in drives it in the snow.

Guy used to have only a lambo and maserati as his transportation. Now its only a mclaren....Can't say I have seen it in the snow but this is his second one.

[The_Bishop]

My point was that at 40k for a Camaro its not that far of a stretch to reach for the Corvette, especially when Ford and Dodge are offering v8's starting in the low 30s. I havent seen any v8 Camaros for under 40k at all. Camaro just seems a bit overpriced when it competition is nicer (imo).

like BLS said though, looks are subjective...as are options...but the Camaro used to be king of the bang for your buck...now its nothing of the sort.

First off: Are you nuts? Entry level for a new Corvette is $56k. Entry level V8 Camaro is $37k. Maybe I'm not rolling as deep as you but $19k is a pretty big chunk of change.

Entry level Challenger is $32k. But it's also 80 HP shy of the Camaro and weighs a lot more, in a platform that hasn't had any major innovations for 10 years. To get into the HP range of the Camaro you're up to $40k in a heavier car, and if you're into modding good luck; the PCM is locked up tighter than fort knox and requires hardware modifications to be programmed.

Entry level Mustang is $33k. It's 20 HP and 40 foot-pounds of torque behind in the power department, with a rev-happy and peaky powerplant. I know in the past they've been haunted by transmission issues, not sure if they're using the same transmissions in the new ones.

Are there cheaper pony car offerings? Yes, with trade-offs. Ultimately you need to decide what works for you. I don't think the price in the Camaro is way out of line, especially when you start comparing prices of vehicles in general across the board.

[BigAls87Z28]

Huh, when we said things about the portly sized fifth gen you said we were nuts.

http://cdn1.thecomeback.com/theoutsidecorner/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2015/04/jump_conclusions-600x356.jpg

You are nuts. You're still nuts because I didn't mention anything about the 5th gen being "portly sized". The 6th gen has the same concept-like look that the 5th gen, just smaller.
I said that the 6th gen is noticeably smaller than the 5th gen when sitting next to it and made no reference to it being better or worse. I love the smaller look, but that doesn't make the 5th gen worse. The design changes are also great and not as retro-related as the past but it is still very Camaro.

As for there being "cheaper" alternatives, sure you can get a Challenger RT that makes 375hp for 6k less and it's a Challenger. To get to SS level performance, you need to drop $44k and it still won't beat the Camaro at 44k. Mustang has a base model V8 car for 33k but is heavier and does not perform as well as the SS for only $5k more.

[sweetbmxrider]

I hear what the bishop is preachin!

[NastyEllEssWon]

I guess I just personally feel like the Camaro is overpriced because its the ugliest of the bunch, so it should be better performing for the same price to make up for what it lacks in the looks department compared to the Stangs and Challengers. It's easier to strap on extra horsepower with aftermarket mods than it is to figure out a way to make the Camaros look halfway decent.

Especially when the price of a new Camaro is so close to the Corvettes these days.

[Blackbirdws6]

I guess I just personally feel like the Camaro is overpriced because its the ugliest of the bunch, so it should be better performing for the same price to make up for what it lacks in the looks department compared to the Stangs and Challengers. It's easier to strap on extra horsepower with aftermarket mods than it is to figure out a way to make the Camaros look halfway decent.

Especially when the price of a new Camaro is so close to the Corvettes these days.

Is 15 to 20k closely priced to you? Figuring for every thousand financed you are looking at $25 to $30 added to the monthly note, that's easily $375 a month difference in payment. Yes that could be less leased but not by much. Not figuring the insurance premium as well.

[wrong generation]

I guess I just personally feel like the Camaro is overpriced


its not just the camaro they are all over priced even the corvette.

[The_Bishop]

I guess I just personally feel like the Camaro is overpriced because its the ugliest of the bunch

pWdd6_ZxX8c


It's easier to strap on extra horsepower with aftermarket mods than it is to figure out a way to make the Camaros look halfway decent.


Are you even reading what's been posted? Adding 80 HP is not 'easy' with the Challenger, and you're tossing your powertrain warranty in the trash when you try. The PCM cannot be tuned without actually hardware modifying the PCM itself, or buying another one. That puts you in the $1K mark, just to be able to tune. Doesn't touch the cost of the other parts or the tune itself. Also, have fun finding a shop to tune the Mopar stuff, they're few and far between just because of these issues.

As far as the torque deficit in the mustang, unless you're adding forced induction ($5K+ and bye-bye warranty) or turning the motor into a stroker (see previous parenthesis), there is no replacement for displacement.

Adding power without major mods is not 'easy' anymore. The motors coming out these days are pretty damn optimized by the factory, out of the box.

Especially when the price of a new Camaro is so close to the Corvettes these days.

Again, LOLWHUT?

Entry level for a new Corvette is $56k. Entry level V8 Camaro is $37k.

Comparison on chevy.com. (http://www.chevrolet.com/all-vehicles-nav/performance/2016-corvette/competitive-compare.extapp.html?x-brand=Chevrolet&x-country=US&x-language=en&x-chrome=376406&chrome2=379947&chrome3=379494)

Go ahead, look it up. We'll wait.

That's $19k. Here's a simple numeric line diagram:

$37k ---------------$56k

Numbers to the right are higher than the numbers to the left.

In all seriousness, they're not in the same ballpark. The vehicles are in two different categories, as far as utility and performance go.

The problem is, dealers don't order base cars. They add every damn option under the sun in the highest trim models for the lot, because they've got the 'wow' factor and the highest profit margins. Easy fix, requires a bit of patience? Order what you want.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Are you even reading what's been posted? Adding 80 HP is not 'easy' with the Challenger, and you're tossing your powertrain warranty in the trash when you try. The PCM cannot be tuned without actually hardware modifying the PCM itself, or buying another one. That puts you in the $1K mark, just to be able to tune. Doesn't touch the cost of the other parts or the tune itself. Also, have fun finding a shop to tune the Mopar stuff, they're few and far between just because of these issues.

As far as the torque deficit in the mustang, unless you're adding forced induction ($5K+ and bye-bye warranty) or turning the motor into a stroker (see previous parenthesis), there is no replacement for displacement.

Adding power without major mods is not 'easy' anymore. The motors coming out these days are pretty damn optimized by the factory, out of the box.



Again, LOLWHUT?



Comparison on chevy.com. (http://www.chevrolet.com/all-vehicles-nav/performance/2016-corvette/competitive-compare.extapp.html?x-brand=Chevrolet&x-country=US&x-language=en&x-chrome=376406&chrome2=379947&chrome3=379494)

Go ahead, look it up. We'll wait.

That's $19k. Here's a simple numeric line diagram:

$37k ---------------$56k

Numbers to the right are higher than the numbers to the left.

In all seriousness, they're not in the same ballpark. The vehicles are in two different categories, as far as utility and performance go.

The problem is, dealers don't order base cars. They add every damn option under the sun in the highest trim models for the lot, because they've got the 'wow' factor and the highest profit margins. Easy fix, requires a bit of patience? Order what you want.



See I guess we just see things differently. I see 40k for a Camaro and see 8k worth of stuff I dont want on the car to get a little bit extra performance. Anything over 350hp is sufficient to me so I dont really care about the performance...if Im spending 30k+ Im getting something that I enjoy the looks of. Which means if I'm in a Chevy dealership looking at Camaros and nothing is popping out at me, Im walking right past it and into the Corvette stable. I can deal with a plastic interior and a car that cant handle...what I cant deal with is spending 30k on a Camaro and walking out with a four cylinder car. I just wish their entry level v8s were a bit more....ENTRY LEVEL :D


Edit: Im also VERY certain that the extra 8k you save on buying a Camaro would do well in a supercharger kit for the Challenger or Mustang. Just saying.

[sweetbmxrider]

See I guess we just see things differently. I see 40k for a Camaro and see 8k worth of stuff I dont want on the car to get a little bit extra performance. Anything over 350hp is sufficient to me so I dont really care about the performance...if Im spending 30k+ Im getting something that I enjoy the looks of. Which means if I'm in a Chevy dealership looking at Camaros and nothing is popping out at me, Im walking right past it and into the Corvette stable. I can deal with a plastic interior and a car that cant handle...what I cant deal with is spending 30k on a Camaro and walking out with a four cylinder car. I just wish their entry level v8s were a bit more....ENTRY LEVEL :D


Edit: Im also VERY certain that the extra 8k you save on buying a Camaro would do well in a supercharger kit for the Challenger or Mustang. Just saying.

WHAT THE **** ARE YOU SAYING!?!?!?!?!? :facepalm:

"I'm spending 30k+ I'm getting something that I enjoy the looks of" And "corvette" do not go together :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: If I'm spending 30k and I have to double my budget to satisfy my taste, I'm being a trollolol

[NastyEllEssWon]

No Im saying that Camaro needs an entry level v8 closer to the Mustang and the Challenger because the cost to step into a v8 Camaro is in Corvette territory, which it really is. It's overpriced compared to its competition which imo looks better. Thats my point. I like the Camaro's powertrain...I just dont like the package its offered in and if you're going to spend 40 grand on a car, you better enjoy the ENTIRE package, which is what the Corvette offers. If you have 40+ grand for a car, you have 50 grand for a car. Simple as that.

[elle]

Good God

[Blackbirdws6]

Have we discussed the easy of cleaning the exhaust tips on either the Vette or Camaro? I didn't see it mentioned but this is a big sticking point.

[sweetbmxrider]

No Im saying that Camaro needs an entry level v8 closer to the Mustang and the Challenger because the cost to step into a v8 Camaro is in Corvette territory, which it really is. It's overpriced compared to its competition which imo looks better. Thats my point. I like the Camaro's powertrain...I just dont like the package its offered in and if you're going to spend 40 grand on a car, you better enjoy the ENTIRE package, which is what the Corvette offers. If you have 40+ grand for a car, you have 50 grand for a car. Simple as that.

If you have 40+ grand for a car, you are a billionaire.

[The_Bishop]

No Im saying that Camaro needs an entry level v8 closer to the Mustang and the Challenger because the cost to step into a v8 Camaro is in Corvette territory, which it really is. It's overpriced compared to its competition which imo looks better. Thats my point. I like the Camaro's powertrain...I just dont like the package its offered in and if you're going to spend 40 grand on a car, you better enjoy the ENTIRE package, which is what the Corvette offers. If you have 40+ grand for a car, you have 50 grand for a car. Simple as that.

http://www.photopinups.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/double_facepalm1.png

The price difference between the Camaro and the competition is 4-5k *at most*.

The 1SS is *not* $40k. It's $37k. You are *not* buying a new corvette for $40k. You're not getting one for $50k, either. It's $56k.

Here's something that will blow your mind: They both have the same engine! So, to use your logic, you're paying an extra $19k for two less seats, less storage, and it's more or less unusable in the winter. What a piece of crap!

Anyway, I'm going to guess that you're pretty young and not terribly versed in credit and/or financing things. Looking at some of your past posts (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showpost.php?p=912928&postcount=29) shows that your judgement may not be the best when it comes to credit.

There is a *world* of difference between financing a $37k car and a $56k car.
Example:

Camaro with $3700 (10%) down, 3.11% interest, 5 year financing: $600/mo.

Corvette with $5600 (10%) down, 3.11% interest, 5 year financing: $908/mo.

I don't know about you, but that extra $308 (51%!) a month is a pretty ****ing huge jump. As in, buy a second new small car for daily beater status jump.

But hey, what do I know? I bought a $30k truck, so I must be a millionaire. :shrug:

[WildBillyT]

The price difference is enough to buy another brand new car for daily use.

[The_Bishop]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/62217483.jpg

[wrong generation]

If you have 40+ grand for a car, you are a billionaire.

you just about have to be a billionair to buy cars which use to be affordable.

[BigAls87Z28]

Folks, this is a moot point.

The Camaro could be $3,700 and Nasty wouldn't even glance towards it. He doesn't like the car's looks, and that's fine, but price is not the deciding factor here.

Some people just want to buy Challengers and plow into corners or buy a Mustang that weighs as much as a 5th gen without the performance and twice the price.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Camaro with $3700 (10%) down, 3.11% interest, 5 year financing: $600/mo.

Corvette with $5600 (10%) down, 3.11% interest, 5 year financing: $908/mo.

I don't know about you, but that extra $308 (51%!) a month is a pretty ****ing huge jump. As in, buy a second new small car for daily beater status jump.

But hey, what do I know? I bought a $30k truck, so I must be a millionaire. :shrug:


If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month. If you're taking on a car payment for $600 a month and you dont have another few hundred dollar buffer each month, then you cant afford a $600 car payment either. that is unless you want to go paycheck to paycheck. Also if you're buying a $40k car and only putting 3 grand down on the car...you can't afford that car either.


Folks, this is a moot point.

He doesn't like the car's looks, and that's fine, but price is not the deciding factor here.



He makes a fine point. The price isn't a deciding factor here, the point im trying to make is that what was once the best bang for your buck historically,
is no longer a great deal compared to the competition and is no longer an entry level v8 performance vehicle....which is what the Camaro was originally
intended for. The fact that you can get a Corvette with minimal effort instead, is a very weak point for Chevy...IMO.

[V]

I was thinking by the time my lease is up, my son will move up to a forward facing car seat and as my personal car, (wife has a crv) I could make due with a Camaro still. Im not sure if I would buy my current one or buy a 2016. So, last night I was on chevy's website building different versions of the car. I started with the cheapest possible version..

Cheapest camaro:
4cyl 2.0L turbo, manual trans, 18" wheels, 7" color touch screen radio. ~$27K

Not bad to be honest, several color choices too, I'd choose white.
But then I realized I'd want the RS package. The base has horrible lights so the RS package is a must and adds $1,950. (20" wheels, led lights, HIDs, grille, spoiler)
Now I'd be just under 29K. Still not horrible.

But then I got to thinking... the 3.6l v6 is only a $1,495 option. That's 60 more hp for 1500 bucks, Why the hell not, lol. Might as well add in the 4 piston brembo package and extra cooling stuff for $485.

Now I'm at about almost 31K...

At that point I figured for about 6k more, I could step up into a V8...
No RS package needed/available because the v8s come with the upgraded lighting.
so now I can get a 1SS for 37.3K with cool hood vents and nicer front bumper.

So now my "basic" camaro is at 37.3K
Magnetic ride control is the only real option I'd go for, and at $1,700, its a deal.

After all that, the price is now 39K. A decent jump up from the original 27k, but when you think what that 12 grand gives you over the cheapest version, it is worth it. (leds, HIDs, 20" wheels, 8" screen radio, spoiler, 160 more hp) But still not easy to accept.

Now at this point, I could see myself going for a 1SS in a year from now, maybe even a used one by then. But then I got to thinking, If I'm dropping that kind of money, mid-high 30s for my next car, I should really consider one of my other options/desires, a used 2009-2013 CTS-V. They can be found for the same price range, 4-door so better for a family, would have leather, and imo look slightly more sinister than a new camaro.

Or do i just buy my current camaro for 16k...

I have some thinking to do...

[Featherburner]

If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month. If you're taking on a car payment for $600 a month and you dont have another few hundred dollar buffer each month, then you cant afford a $600 car payment either. that is unless you want to go paycheck to paycheck. Also if you're buying a $40k car and only putting 3 grand down on the car...you can't afford that car either.

You state this so matter of factly. What happens when a $900 payment puts you where you say you can't afford the $600? (few hundred dollar buffer) By your logic, if you can afford a $600 payment you can afford a $900 payment then, you can afford a $1200 payment. Of course if you can afford a $1200 payment then you can afford a $1500 payment. Sound stupid to you? Yeah, me too!

[sweetbmxrider]

If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month. If you're taking on a car payment for $600 a month and you dont have another few hundred dollar buffer each month, then you cant afford a $600 car payment either. that is unless you want to go paycheck to paycheck. Also if you're buying a $40k car and only putting 3 grand down on the car...you can't afford that car either.

I know you are just being a complete jack ass but I enjoy the fire burning strong. Where does your logic come from? At what point can you no longer afford a larger payment? Maybe you can take the extra $300, but can you take another $300? You can get a lot more car for $1200 a month. Maybe someone can only afford $200 a month to keep some rainy day money handy, so how do you reason them into a larger payment without living paycheck to paycheck?

Btw Ferrari in Edison comes highly recommended.

[wrong generation]

its really sad when you have to take out a mortgage to buy a new car. be it camaro,mustang 0r challenger.

[LTb1ow]

its really sad when you have to take out a mortgage to buy a new car. be it camaro,mustang 0r challenger.

Do tell.

Last I checked my truck payment was significantly less than my mortgage?

[The_Bishop]

If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month. If you're taking on a car payment for $600 a month and you dont have another few hundred dollar buffer each month, then you cant afford a $600 car payment either. that is unless you want to go paycheck to paycheck. Also if you're buying a $40k car and only putting 3 grand down on the car...you can't afford that car either.

So how did your last new car purchase go? (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65698)

Probably not too well, I take it? (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showpost.php?p=912928&postcount=29)

I mean, if you can afford a '90's thunderbird, you can afford a Corvette, right? (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66194)

[wrong generation]

Do tell.

Last I checked my truck payment was significantly less than my mortgage?


first off i do not have a mortgage payment. i live on a 30' searay that i own out right. i pay a dock slip for the year which isn't much. that being stated ill give you a few examples.

i know of at least 10 people who live in the same county as you. who's mortgage payments range between $800-1000 a month. now taking that the $600 figure stated above thats basicly a mortgage payment. $600 may be less then $800 but not by much and same basic principle.

i also have a friend who recently moved out of the state due to the high cost of living here. he bought a house with 10 acre's of land in another state for $40,000. now i don't exactly know what his mortgage payments are but i bet you a $40,000 camaro in new jersey is the same price in every other state. so if he were to go buy a 2016 camaro. his car payment would be the same if not close to his mortgage payment.

the idea that a brand new camaro,mustang,challenger costs as much as a house just boggles my mind.

[WildBillyT]

i also have a friend who recently moved out of the state due to the high cost of living here. he bought a house with 10 acre's of land in another state for $40,000. now i don't exactly know what his mortgage payments are but i bet you a $40,000 camaro in new jersey is the same price in every other state. so if he were to go buy a 2016 camaro. his car payment would be the same if not close to his mortgage payment.

the idea that a brand new camaro,mustang,challenger costs as much as a house just boggles my mind.

Because it doesn't.

The national average for a home loan in the USA is $225,000 or so. That's Ferrari territory.

I do not know your friend but 40k for a house on 10 acres is a price in a very cheap area. You could theoretically live in one of the $1 homes in Newark or Gary Indiana and then a soft taco would technically be the same price.

[Blackbirdws6]

Pics of said $40k home? I think I would rather live in the Camaro.

[V]

The national average for a home loan in the USA is $225,000 or so.

I'd take that any day over whats available in northern bergen county. lol.

[BonzoHansen]

He might have bought a block in detroit.

[WildBillyT]

He might have bought detroit.

FTFY

[BigAls87Z28]

If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month. If you're taking on a car payment for $600 a month and you dont have another few hundred dollar buffer each month, then you cant afford a $600 car payment either. that is unless you want to go paycheck to paycheck. Also if you're buying a $40k car and only putting 3 grand down on the car...you can't afford that car either.

What...wait...whuh?
You lose a lot of ground, and whatever credibility you might have had in this conversation. There are a lot of assumptions and what ifs.
Yeah, if you are putting 3k down on a car that costs more than, say, 20k, then you probably can't afford a lot.

He makes a fine point. The price isn't a deciding factor here, the point im trying to make is that what was once the best bang for your buck historically,
is no longer a great deal compared to the competition and is no longer an entry level v8 performance vehicle....which is what the Camaro was originally
intended for. The fact that you can get a Corvette with minimal effort instead, is a very weak point for Chevy...IMO.

Camaro has NEVER been the "bang for your buck" car. They are new cars! New cars are expensive!
Yeah, could you get a base model Camaro for under $3k? Yeah, sure! But the median income was 6k!
How is that different from today when the median income in the US is around 45k and the base Camaro is 27k? This same line of thinking is linked with this romantic idea that years ago, they were selling boatloads of Hemi Cudas, Chevelle SS 454s, and Boss 429s in volumes that would rival modern Japanese midsized cars.

Camaro has always been at a price premium because it has always been a step above Mustang and has been priced accordingly. Not dramatically higher, but higher none the less. Challenger offers nothing compared to either the Mustang or Camaro in price and performance.

Camaro is just as affordable as it always has been. You cannot get any car from any corner of this planet that will come near the performance of Camaro at this price, not even Mustang.

Look, Nasty. Give it up. Every time some new performance car rolls into to town, there are always a small contingent of knuckle draggers that want a box with an engine for the price of a slightly used mountain bike.

There has never been a time where there was a "cheap" V8 Camaro, at least not in the last quarter century, where there was a "cheap" V8 Camaro. Cheap is also a relative term. See below:

its really sad when you have to take out a mortgage to buy a new car. be it camaro,mustang 0r challenger.

Some people buy a house for 40k and some people spend 40k on their third wedding.

Camaro is a great buy in the market. Can you buy a Corvette for similar price? No, no you can't. No matter how hard you try and wish upon a star that $40k is close to $60k, it still doesn't change the fact that it's not.


So while you live in some alternate universe where there are $20k V8 cars, we will be here in this world, waiting to take a ride in the best performance vehicle for under 40k.

[NastyEllEssWon]

[QUOTE=The_Bishop;923661]So how did your last new car purchase go? (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65698)




Good actually. I decided to make a deal allowing me to purchase the car, financed through the dealer and paid it off in cash. Used the money leftover to buy a Thunderbird to have fun with in the summer. The minor boost to my credit score by paying off a car early led to my gf and I are closing on our first house together & Im currently shopping for something to replace the Thunderbird soon...hence the interest in current pony cars. Thanks for asking :D

http://i.imgur.com/CmGYZhz.png
http://i.imgur.com/J2m9zF5.png

[sweetbmxrider]

Gangster stack of 20's, yo.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Gangster stack of 20's, yo.


LOL it couldve been a pile of coins and it'd be worth the same. I dont choose what comes out of the register at the Credit Union, I dont complain either as long as they give me the money. Im just saying I decided to take Scott and BLS advice earlier last year to NOT buy an expensive car, do some things to get the credit up and then when its time to get a nice car, the interest rates wont be too bad. It worked out well actually :D

[sweetbmxrider]

So did you order a z06 yet?????

[NastyEllEssWon]

So did you order a z06 yet?????



lol way too much car. I told you, I bought my house & I'll be shopping for a car this summer. I'd rather have a convertible than a z06 anyway :D

[sweetbmxrider]

lol way too much car. I told you, I bought my house & I'll be shopping for a car this summer. I'd rather have a convertible than a z06 anyway :D

https://naumanfarooq.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/2015-chevrolet-z06-convertible-15-22.jpg

Go on.....

[Featherburner]

[QUOTE=Featherburner;923653]





Good actually. I decided to make a deal allowing me to purchase the car, financed through the dealer and paid it off in cash. Used the money leftover to buy a Thunderbird to have fun with in the summer. The minor boost to my credit score by paying off a car early led to my gf and I are closing on our first house together & Im currently shopping for something to replace the Thunderbird soon...hence the interest in current pony cars. Thanks for asking :D

http://i.imgur.com/CmGYZhz.png
http://i.imgur.com/J2m9zF5.png

You have me quoted but nothing I said. :shrug:

[NastyEllEssWon]

this is new to me. Also even if I had the money for a z06 I could never spend that type of cash on a car. absolutely beautiful though and takes care of the ugly roofline of the c6. right click save as :D


Edit: Feather... LOL on my screen it just shows im bad at quoting http://i.imgur.com/Crr9Rpb.png

[sweetbmxrider]

this is new to me. Also even if I had the money for a z06 I could never spend that type of cash on a car. absolutely beautiful though and takes care of the ugly roofline of the c6. right click save as :D

But you do have the money? You have the money for a camaro, you have the money for a vette. This is vette. Where is problem? Sign here x________________

[NastyEllEssWon]

But you do have the money? You have the money for a camaro, you have the money for a vette. This is vette. Where is problem? Sign here x________________



You can sit here an patronize me for my opinions all you want and constantly sit here try to make me look like an ******* for having my own opinion on something. The fact is I shared my opinion and even had my own decision questioned based off my own opinion...I've been civil this entire time and you continue to personally be an ******* for my opinion. **** you dude.



edit: my point is that if gm doesnt think its that big a jump to go from a $32k challenger/mustangs price point to get into a 40k camaro then why do you have such a hard time believing going from a Camaro
to a Corvette is anything out of this world extraordinarily insane. Obviously going from a $55k Base Corvette to a possibly $100k z06 is ridiculous & you know it. Not once have I ever seen anyone ever come
at another member around here questioning their financial status when talking about a $30k - $50k car but you have to be an a hole and not even question it but go as far as to dig up quotes from the past to
check to see if I actually bought a car...and then questioning the car I buy. Over an opinion. So **** both of you...you Adam and Bishop.

[Blackbirdws6]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/MvS6aL7FX0Iz6/200_s.gif

[LTb1ow]

first off i do not have a mortgage payment. i live on a 30' searay that i own out right. i pay a dock slip for the year which isn't much. that being stated ill give you a few examples.

i know of at least 10 people who live in the same county as you. who's mortgage payments range between $800-1000 a month. now taking that the $600 figure stated above thats basicly a mortgage payment. $600 may be less then $800 but not by much and same basic principle.

i also have a friend who recently moved out of the state due to the high cost of living here. he bought a house with 10 acre's of land in another state for $40,000. now i don't exactly know what his mortgage payments are but i bet you a $40,000 camaro in new jersey is the same price in every other state. so if he were to go buy a 2016 camaro. his car payment would be the same if not close to his mortgage payment.

the idea that a brand new camaro,mustang,challenger costs as much as a house just boggles my mind.

$800-1000 a month in NJ? Is it a shack?

A single example of moving to middle of nowhere land with a shack on it for $40k is hardly cause to demean a car for 40k.

Hell, using this thread's logic, a kia should be sold for two tacos and a corona. Here I was looking at 65k trucks and thinking that was absurd. :rofl:

[NastyEllEssWon]

My whole point is the Camaro used to be the poor mans Corvette but somewhere along the line became the rich mans Mustang. The Corvette is a better bang for your buck considering the package you get for the price compared to the Camaro. I still hold firm on those regards Matt. I just wish there was a cheaper price point from GM to get the new v8 motor, then it'd be easier to compromise platform > bodystyle.

[BonzoHansen]

$800-1000 a month in NJ? Is it a shack?

A single example of moving to middle of nowhere land with a shack on it for $40k is hardly cause to demean a car for 40k.

Hell, using this thread's logic, a kia should be sold for two tacos and a corona. Here I was looking at 65k trucks and thinking that was absurd. :rofl:

Technically, my mortgage payment (just P&I) is around $900. For another 20 years lol. But then you add Tax & Ins and that pmt nearly doubles.

[The_Bishop]

I dug up your past posts to highlight the fact that you're probably not the brightest bulb in the fixture when it comes to credit/cash decisions.

Obviously going from a $55k Base Corvette to a possibly $100k z06 is ridiculous & you know it.

I find it really hysterical that you are saying that it's crazy to jump up 50% in price on a vehicle, when you also said:

If you can afford $600 a month you can afford $900 a month.

If you need a calculator, that's also a 50% increase.

Jumping from a $37k Camaro (It's $37k not $40k, for a 1SS, GO ****ING LOOK IT UP) to a $56k Corvette is a HUGE difference. Like, 51% more money difference.

Math is absolute. It doesn't care what your opinion is.

You haven't been civil. You've been acting like a troll, ignoring every fact presented to you that conflicts with your opinion for the sake of arguing. You don't like the Camaro? Hey, whatever floats your boat... Don't buy one. But also don't bag on anyone who happens to like them and thinks they're a great deal for what you get. Their opinion is worth as much to them as yours is to you.

On to your 'look how gangsta I am' post:

If you need to finance through a dealer, your credit is generally worthless.

Paying off an installment loan early doesn't help your credit, it can actually harm it unless you're overextended to begin with, which shows a lack of good judgement in regards to money and credit decisions. Also, the banks don't give a flying crap if you pay with cash or a check; payment is payment.

Posting pictures of stacks of $20 bills that may or may not be yours makes you look like this guy:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f7/0c/e7/f70ce7ee68ad48703634e4b4f8c56492.jpg

Also, you're not impressing anyone here.

Buying a house (and taking on a 30 year payment commitment) with your 'girlfriend' is a monumentally terrible decision. This will bite you in the ass, mark my words. If you don't feel committed to her enough to get married to her, engaging in a financial 30 year commitment with her is stupid.

Also, once you buy that house, you're not buying anything for a good long while that isn't house related. Prepare to have your finances vacuumed away, as you will need more money than you think you do. Voice of experience, here as I have been there and done that, as have many others in this club.

And, because I'm a sarcastic ball breaker:

If you can afford a new car and a house, how come you're not in a Z06 convertible? Obviously, you can afford it!

[NastyEllEssWon]

Im not trying to impress no one here. You went all internet sleuth and looked in my back posts in an attempt to show Im bull****ting about what I'm saying. As for the credit if you look back at my post like I said, it wasnt in shambles, just needed a boost. Doing what I did was the best option after speaking with the dealership to give me that boost without much of a hassle. My credit is where it needs to be & dont question why me and my girlfriend arent married. We've been together for 9 years, theres a fantastic reason for it & I dont feel like sharing it with an a sshole like yourself. GFY.

[Blackbirdws6]

My whole point is the Camaro used to be the poor mans Corvette but somewhere along the line became the rich mans Mustang. The Corvette is a better bang for your buck considering the package you get for the price compared to the Camaro. I still hold firm on those regards Matt. I just wish there was a cheaper price point from GM to get the new v8 motor, then it'd be easier to compromise platform > bodystyle.

If we are calling the Camaro a poor mans Corvette, perhaps that's correct but the Camaro is not a poor mans car. You sound like you want a V8 just because its 8 cylinders while a "lesser" model would offer better performance than prior year offerings. Current day V6 and 4cylinder turbo cars are offering better or close to equivalent power/performance over their older V8 counterparts.

[sweetbmxrider]

You can sit here an patronize me for my opinions all you want and constantly sit here try to make me look like an ******* for having my own opinion on something. The fact is I shared my opinion and even had my own decision questioned based off my own opinion...I've been civil this entire time and you continue to personally be an ******* for my opinion. **** you dude.



edit: my point is that if gm doesnt think its that big a jump to go from a $32k challenger/mustangs price point to get into a 40k camaro then why do you have such a hard time believing going from a Camaro
to a Corvette is anything out of this world extraordinarily insane. Obviously going from a $55k Base Corvette to a possibly $100k z06 is ridiculous & you know it. Not once have I ever seen anyone ever come
at another member around here questioning their financial status when talking about a $30k - $50k car but you have to be an a hole and not even question it but go as far as to dig up quotes from the past to
check to see if I actually bought a car...and then questioning the car I buy. Over an opinion. So **** both of you...you Adam and Bishop.

No, Jay, **** you. You were an ******* the entire course of the thread and you continue to be. I could give a **** if you have a dollar to your name or a million. You overgeneralized financial positions and monthly expenses then claiming some ******** leaving someone in a paycheck to paycheck situation makes you look like a complete douche and everyone here has been laying into you for it. You can continue to be an ******* about it or you can suck it the **** up and admit your opinions were poorly thought out and only intended to fuel some fire. Your thoughts and reasoning to affordability are hilarious and immature. The pitiful argument to the lineage of the camaro's affordability is some desperate attempt to save face I guess? Other then that, you continued to argue opinions of style and looks which is your own opinion and has no scale for comparison. **** you dude.

[NastyEllEssWon]

If we are calling the Camaro a poor mans Corvette, perhaps that's correct but the Camaro is not a poor mans car. You sound like you want a V8 just because its 8 cylinders while a "lesser" model would offer better performance than prior year offerings. Current day V6 and 4cylinder turbo cars are offering better or close to equivalent power/performance over their older V8 counterparts.



If they had a detuned v8 that still made the same horsepower as the v6 Id be more interested in the v8 just because overall I enjoy the sound of a v8 over a v6 any day. If the v6 came supercharged Id be alright with that because it would still be fairly torquey and still save the gas mileage....turbo cars just never fit my fancy.

It all comes down to the jump from 335hp to 440(ish?) in the new ss seemed like there was room in between for what im talking bout.

[NastyEllEssWon]

No, Jay, **** you. You were an ******* the entire course of the thread and you continue to be. I could give a **** if you have a dollar to your name or a million. You overgeneralized financial positions and monthly expenses then claiming some ******** leaving someone in a paycheck to paycheck situation makes you look like a complete douche and everyone here has been laying into you for it. You can continue to be an ******* about it or you can suck it the **** up and admit your opinions were poorly thought out and only intended to fuel some fire. Your thoughts and reasoning to affordability are hilarious and immature. The pitiful argument to the lineage of the camaro's affordability is some desperate attempt to save face I guess? Other then that, you continued to argue opinions of style and looks which is your own opinion and has no scale for comparison. **** you dude.


well said but not once have I ever made my position from someone who was better than anyone else or intended to fuel fire towards someones financial position or affordability. My opinions on taking on a payment remains the same, if you're buying a car and you have absolutely no wiggle room, to where $300 will make or break your entire budget, then you probably shouldn't be purchasing a $40,000 car. That is speaking from experience, as someone who has lived paycheck to paycheck their entire life, not from someone looking down on someone, just like me posting those pictures isnt me trying to impress, it was in defense of bishop.

Agree to disagree but **** you again

[BonzoHansen]

enough....