Wanna hear some ****ed up ****?

[89 Trans Am WS6]

On weds the 3rd of november i had a kid come look at my car (the 89 ta) to see about purchasing it. He liked it after looking it over and test driving it and left me a 500 dollar check as deposit. I took it and banked it the next day. Two days later he came down (friday) with the rest of the payment and plates. I let him register it awhile because i knew the kid wasnt going anywhere with it. So he comes friday, gives me another check for 500, plus the rest in cash. He owed me $130.00 and said he would give it to his brother to give to me in school on monday. I said it wasnt a problem and i wasnt gonna hold up on the sale because of it. So we put on the plates and he takes it home. Drives away happy with a smile on his face..now fast forward to that sunday, the 7th. I get a call while im at work from him telling me we need to talk about something about the car. I say watever and he comes down to meet me with his brother at work. They try telling me that the car is stone dead after saturday morning and that it has a "major electrical problem". I told him that i never ever had any kind of trouble with the car and that it wasnt something i did or was wrong. First, they insisted to tell me about lemon laws, even after i told them that it only applied to new cars. THEN they told me that they put a stop payment on BOTH 500 dollar checks. This made me angry because they took control of the situation like that, keeping the car and the money! They tried telling me i had 3 options..

1.) take the car back, give back the money and say it never happened

my reply was no..i dont want back the car, because if i could have afforded it i would have kept both. and why would i want back a car that was running fine before you took it and now its "dead"?

option 2 they gave was ) you come fix it and then we give you the rest of the payment..i told them no i dont have time for it number one, secondly i dont know wtf is wrong with it, i go to school for automotive technology but im no master tech, and i really want nothing to do with going to their house to see the car

and finally the third option they tried to give me was "we keep the car for the money you hav in cash..

This annoyed the living **** out of me, that these people were actually trying to tell me the deal i made was shady..the whole time im thinking if i was shady about it, or normal rather.. i woudl have taken a whole payment in cash..but i was flexable..now their trying to **** me.

Then a few days later the kid calls me and tells me they have 48 hours to legally get out of a contract..a instructor at school confirmed that such a thing does exist..but we werent signing any contract..and that a title doesnt constitue one, its simply a transfer of ownership. The kid on the fone gets really mad saying things like "you wont win joe, you wont win in court" and things like that..telling me how ishoudl take a day off work to go fix this car of his..of HIS! Basicly i had to hang up with him that time because he wouldnt get off the phone, but before i did, and countless other times i gave him this rundown..and he doesnt want to hear it..


1.) you looked at a car,test drove it, liked it and left a deposit
2.) you had ample time to say you didnt want it and i would have given the deposit back no questions asked.
3.) you gave payment, signed the title in your name and took the car home.
4.) you come to me, telling me something is majorly wrong with it and stoppayment on my money!

I cant get this guy to see that in plain light..it makes me so angry.

i was happy for a few days because the people at the bank told us on thursday that both checks cleared and they were fine, and today i got a letter from the bank with the two checks saying they were stopped!!

My uncle told me that if they have the money it could be considered theft by deception and that in court and judge would easily see the same things i mentioned above and the case would be mine without a problem..

sorry if things are mispelled or butchered here, im just so angry and typing 405385838593 words a minute..

oh one more thing the kid is trying to tell me..he says that i never said the car was as-is..i told him every used car is sold as-is unless there is a warranty implied somehow..there was not..

not sure what im going to do but im going to get my money.

it makes me so unbeleiveably mad that someone would take ownership of the car, **** it up and then steal my money from me!

gonna call my uncle now and see what he suggests..hes been through this before..err..soo mad

[SpeakersGoBoom]

when they said "major electrical problems," did they state exactly what they were?

[89 Trans Am WS6]

The car doesnt start. All the lights and **** come on, but no crank no pump prime. I myself find myself being curious as to what it is, but at the same time, i really dont care..i just want my money man..to much stress for me right now..

[j0n]

dude that is majorly ****ed up and wrong...gimme his address...my louisville slugger hasnt seen any action in a while :twisted:

[Squirrel]

a call from a lawyer will make him **** his pants.....do ittttttt :D

[SpeakersGoBoom]

Agree to try and fix it...for a charge :twisted:

[Fasterthanyou]

There are a few problems with this senario so I suggest you call a lawyer ASAP. First off, you should never release the title until you have all the money set in stone. NEVER accept a personal check no matter who it is. It could be you're best friend, just don't do it. Have them get a cashiers check which is as good as cash but can only be deposited.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act might help you here. Ask the lawyer and tell him everything that happened.
Private sales usually are not covered by the "implied warranties" of state law. That means a private sale probably will be "as-is" and this is the case in NJ. He can get in SERIOUS trouble for stopping payment. I'd also call a repo man to get YOUR car back. The only problem with that is that you gave him the title and have no contract. This might get messy.
Another option is finding why the car isn't starting so you can avoid the small claims courts and what not. Let this be a lesson to anybody that doesn't feel they need a written contract expressing as-is. And again, NEVER accept personal checks!

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Yeah i hear ya about the checks. My lesson learned, at least it was preety early in life, lol.

The funny thing is they sent me a certified letter outlining the car when it was PURCHASED how much was paid, the cash they owed me ($130) , how they stopped payment, AND they both signed the bottom..so i basicly have a written,signed document from them saying how much im owed and that they stopped payment on it.

My uncles going to look into it monday and we will see where ti goes from there. They dont have any chance that i can see of screwing me in court..i should be able to get my money right? what do you guys think?

[foff667]

There are a few problems with this senario so I suggest you call a lawyer ASAP. First off, you should never release the title until you have all the money set in stone. NEVER accept a personal check no matter who it is. It could be you're best friend, just don't do it. Have them get a cashiers check which is as good as cash but can only be deposited.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act might help you here. Ask the lawyer and tell him everything that happened.
Private sales usually are not covered by the "implied warranties" of state law. That means a private sale probably will be "as-is" and this is the case in NJ. He can get in SERIOUS trouble for stopping payment. I'd also call a repo man to get YOUR car back. The only problem with that is that you gave him the title and have no contract. This might get messy.
Another option is finding why the car isn't starting so you can avoid the small claims courts and what not. Let this be a lesson to anybody that doesn't feel they need a written contract expressing as-is. And again, NEVER accept personal checks!

eh, working at a bank i have some info, you can accept personal checks but just cash them at the bank they are drawn on which will be listed on the front of the check ie soverign, wachovia, bank of america or whatever...as far as cashiers checks goes, same thing cash them...they are not as good as cash and can have stop payments on them. I think its really ****ed up what they are doing in this case seeing that they are only giving you a little over a grand for the car...its not a mint condition car and im sure what never sold as such. If you have a lawyer friend talk to him about it but for a grand i wouldnt go much further then that with a lawyer unless hes not charging you. The only recourse i see you having is going to small claims court with this guy...you can get a copy of those checks and once you win in small claims court you'll know where to get those funds deducted from so youre already ahead of the game...with small claims they have to show up to court otherwise you win so you have a 50/50 chance of winning by default most of the time and can setup to have direct deductions from their account when its official. From what you said he had damn near if not over 48hrs between the time you released the car(friday) and by the time you talked to them(sometime sunday or monday it sounds). The legal system sux and can be time consuming but this guy sounds like the type of person id take it to...also get him for time off from work and as much other **** as you can throw in...**** for that put in mental anguish :) never hurt hehe.

[enRo]

Well when my brother sold his maxima, he got a check and he immediately called the other guys bank to confirm if he had the money (in which he did). You can always call the bank to see if they have the sufficiant funds. On topic, thats complete *********. Call a lawyer pronto... if it has to be Jacoby and Meyers whatever. He f**ked you, and basically stole the car off you by deception. I was gonna report my TA as a lemon but couldnt... the owner said its never been in an accident, but I find windshield shards under my carpet and front frame work constructed by bondo. But you got f**ked man, get a lawyer involved. Even if it takes you to send a letter to him without a return address, impersonating a lawyer using big words laying down facts, just to give him a good scare :)

[foff667]

Well when my brother sold his maxima, he got a check and he immediately called the other guys bank to confirm if he had the money (in which he did). You can always call the bank to see if they have the sufficiant funds.

again calling only does so much...when i sell things on ebay i tell my buyers it takes 10 days for checks to clear...money orders, cashiers checks or whatever cuz in the end thats how long it can take...well till the check 21 thing started in the last week....now its like 2-3 days generally. But funds availability doesnt matter if he puts a stop on it 2 days later.

[enRo]

You got a point there. But 89TA, u got f**ked. Call a lawyer. Id be pissed.

[bencar]

Don't know much, except for the fact that most Lawyers won't take a case like yours on a contingency basis (which means they get a percentage if you win), and in fact may require a 'Retainer' that's more than you've lost already. Like it or not, you may either have to roll the Dice in 'Small Claims Court', fix the car, or take it back

[89 Trans Am WS6]

well it was 2300 not a grand..1000 was the total amount of checks they gave me..

the money was in the bank on their side, and on thursday my mom went to the bank to check the status of the checks and the lady at the bank said both had cleared and their was no hold or anything. which i was happy with untill yesterday when i got the stop payment ****..

and i beleive a common misconception is that check 21 involves all banks. it doesnt, not yet. their is a time period in which banks have to change over..

even in small claims court tho..i cant see how he could win anything..

I have a signed/dated document from him and his mother stating the price of the car, how he payed for it, and the 130.00 he owed me ontop of that. It also states that they placed a stop payment on the checks.

That alone and the fact that he looked at the car, liked it, deposited on it, payed in full(minus 130.00 but im wasnt worried about that), signed the car in his name, and drove away with a car that ran fine should be enough for anyone to see that it is HIS CAR, and whatever happens while he owns a car is his problem, not mine.I dont like the way it sounds when i talk like that, because it makes it sound like i was shady..but yanno i really dont care what ti sounds like anymore, im done playing around with him, i just want my deserved money. THe only legal problem i see is that he basicly stole from me.

And as for taking a the car back..why would i want to take a car back that was running fine and now its dead? For all i know they grenaded the motor or somthing.

Ugh..i just really cant understand people anymore..

thanks alot guys youve all been great with your help and suggestions

[foff667]

well it was 2300 not a grand..1000 was the total amount of checks they gave me..

and i beleive a common misconception is that check 21 involves all banks. it doesnt, not yet. their is a time period in which banks have to change over..



why would you let someone drive the car with not even 1/2 of the $ up front? I thought he just owed you $130 and his debt would be paid??? And your right about check 21 whereas not all banks have implimented it, but again i dont think it wouldve mattered much in your case anywayz he was a douche and should be hung.

[ar0ck]

I thought once they sign over the title, the car is no longer under your controll, and that the new owner accepts all responsibity.

Sounds ****ed up Joe, dont know what else to say.

[Slow Z]

You are absolutely right. The car is HIS, not yours. For all anyone knows he bought your car and just beat the living crap out of it for 2 days straight. There are hardly any laws regarding private sales of used cars (especially older ones). Your car (i mean HIS car) also isn't covered by Lemon laws

Whose car is not covered by the law

# motor vehicles sold for less than $3,000

# motor vehicles that are more than eight (8) model years old

# motor vehicles that have been declared a total loss by an insurance company

# motor vehicles that have odometer readings of more than 100,000 miles

# motor vehicles that were not purchased from a dealer


"Private sales usually are not covered by the "implied warranties" of state law. That means a private sale probably will be on an "as is" basis, unless your purchase agreement with the seller specifically states otherwise. If you have a written contract, the seller must live up to the promises stated in the contract."


Take this bastard to court and get him for all the money hes got... I'm 110% sure you'll win.

[foff667]

also i grabbed a bill of sale from online somewhere so when ive sold cars or had people sell them to me it lists that its as-is and whatever...so in addition to the title u both have copies of the bill of sale.

[JPiZZiJP]

My only major suggestion is that you discuss the whole situation with a lawyer.

Also... forget the whole "theft by deception" idea. I have a lot of experience with this, and for you to have him charged with "theft by deception", you would have to prove (beyond a resonable doubt) that the guy had intention to do what he did to you (which you're probably unlikely able to prove because it's basically his word against yours)...

But yeah, just my 2 cents.

Good luck.

~Joe

PS If you need any more advice, let me know, I'll bring it up with my lawyer... I talk with him about once every week.

[bencar]

Most of what you've been told is correct, and that louse hasn't a leg to stand on in regards to 'Lemon Laws', or much of anything else, but, again, let me warn you, if you involve a Lawyer, he/she will get a cut of whatever settlement it is you get. Now if you're only out $130.00, then it's not worth it. If you're out $2,300.00, it still might not be worth involving a Lawyer, because of the cut he/she will get out of the settlement. Of course if you can at least get a consultation with a Lawyer for free, then it's certainly worth asking if it's worth suing that bum

[foff667]

I talk with him about once every week.

of course this is by choice right :?: :lol:

[ar0ck]

Most of what you've been told is correct, and that louse hasn't a leg to stand on in regards to 'Lemon Laws', or much of anything else, but, again, let me warn you, if you involve a Lawyer, he/she will get a cut of whatever settlement it is you get. Now if you're only out $130.00, then it's not worth it. If you're out $2,300.00, it still might not be worth involving a Lawyer, because of the cut he/she will get out of the settlement. Of course if you can at least get a consultation with a Lawyer for free, then it's certainly worth asking if it's worth suing that bum

But would it really matter, just so you can get the kid off his case legally?

I mean its only $130, but the fact that you can do something to get someone off your case is just as good in a way.

[89 Trans Am WS6]

I was originally only out 130.00 but i wasnt going to sweat it. Now im out 1130 because they put a stop on both checks.

also just out of curiousity Also... forget the whole "theft by deception" idea. I have a lot of experience with this, and for you to have him charged with "theft by deception", you would have to prove (beyond a resonable doubt) that the guy had intention to do what he did to you (which you're probably unlikely able to prove because it's basically his word against yours)...


I have a signed letter from him and his mother saying that they purchased the car for the given amount with them owing me 130.00, and then it says they put a stop pay on the checks..isnt that reasonable doubt that they did it? ;x

[Tru2Chevy]

I was originally only out 130.00 but i wasnt going to sweat it. Now im out 1130 because they put a stop on both checks.

also just out of curiousity Also... forget the whole "theft by deception" idea. I have a lot of experience with this, and for you to have him charged with "theft by deception", you would have to prove (beyond a resonable doubt) that the guy had intention to do what he did to you (which you're probably unlikely able to prove because it's basically his word against yours)...


I have a signed letter from him and his mother saying that they purchased the car for the given amount with them owing me 130.00, and then it says they put a stop pay on the checks..isnt that reasonable doubt that they did it? ;x

I think that you have to have proof that he intended to "break" the car and cancel the checks before he bought it, meaning that the whole thing was pre-meditated.

- Justin

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Oh..well he owned the car then it broke..so watever..i thinkit all breaks down to simply

He owns the car, something happens while he owns it, its his problem.

Now let me go get my damn money :(

[JL8Jeff]

He took delivery of the car so it's his. Now he owes you money still. Any problems with the car after it's sold is the new owner's problems. I've been lucky and had a few problems pop up right before I sold a car/truck a couple of times and that gave me time to fix it or renegotiate the price with the buyer. The guy owes you the money and it's in writing. Have a lawyer call him and give him the hint.

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Doing that later today. :twisted:

[bencar]

Most of what you've been told is correct, and that louse hasn't a leg to stand on in regards to 'Lemon Laws', or much of anything else, but, again, let me warn you, if you involve a Lawyer, he/she will get a cut of whatever settlement it is you get. Now if you're only out $130.00, then it's not worth it. If you're out $2,300.00, it still might not be worth involving a Lawyer, because of the cut he/she will get out of the settlement. Of course if you can at least get a consultation with a Lawyer for free, then it's certainly worth asking if it's worth suing that bum

But would it really matter, just so you can get the kid off his case legally?

I mean its only $130, but the fact that you can do something to get someone off your case is just as good in a way.

If this kid is making that much of nuisance of himself, maybe, but Lawyers don't come cheap, and as long as this kid hasn't got a legal leg to stand on himself, a Lawyer may be a very high price to pay, just to try to shut him up.

[foff667]

Doing that later today. :twisted:

so whats the latest?

[Savage_Messiah]

Read again he owes 1130... the 130 cash and 2 500 dollar checks that were cancelled

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Went filled out police report..they reccomended i fill it out but at the same time said it was more of a civil matter and i should seek out elsewhere :roll: regardless due to some info from someone on the boards i may be able to get the money real easy..looking into it

thanks
ljoe

[jims69camaro]

it boils down to my largest pet-peeve: people not accepting responsibility for their own actions and either looking to point the finger at someone else or looking for someone else to foot the bill. do not, under any circumstances, accept these actions, as he is responsible for the car - he's just trying to get you to pay for it. there isn't even any need for you to prove there was nothing wrong with the car, as he has no leg to stand on. if he bought a hunk of ****, it's still his. he completed the transaction (or $130 shy of doing so) and he filed for title. there isn't any action more damning to him than filing for title - that means he accepts the deal and the car is his.

take him to court and teach him to take responsibility for his actions. even if you were shady (not saying you are) he still paid you, took the car and filed for title. deal was done, as far as you were concerned, and there was no contract (wherein there might've been a clause) or cause for him to stop payment because the car won't start.

allow me to reiterate a very important point: do not, under any circumstances, accept these actions, as he is responsible for the car - he's just trying to get you to pay for it.