What Car Do You Want GM to Build? [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

skorpion317

11-27-2004, 11:05 AM

make some special models of the Monte Carlo, Impala, and Grand Prix RWD, with LS2's and 6-spds.

an AWD turbocharged sport compact. Enough with the supercharged 4-cyls. a blower doesn't belong on a 4-banger, IMO. bring over the turbo Ecotec.

A super-badass version of the C6, on the same level of ridiculousness as the Sledgehammer 'Vette. It would be a limited-production model, say 5 cars total. The performance would be mind-blowing, 0-60 in under 3 seconds, a 1/4 mile time in the single digits, and a top speed of over 240 MPH. All the magazines would drool and proclaim it the best 'Vette ever. They'd put it head to head with all the major supercars, Ferraris and Lambos and all the expensive European machinery, and it would soundly demolish each and every one of them.

86Transam

11-27-2004, 02:19 PM

do not know about u but i would really like to see the f-bodies brought back. i love them cars and i miss them. :cry:

Matt

89 Trans Am WS6

11-27-2004, 03:58 PM

The firebird.

BigAls87Z28

11-27-2004, 05:14 PM

Ahem...gents...read the rules. Anything outside of the Camaro/Firebird relation.

9secfirebird

11-27-2004, 06:19 PM

i think GM should stick to the corvette.

NJSPEEDER

11-27-2004, 08:35 PM

i think GM should stick to the corvette.

you mean the C5.2 ? :roll:

i like the engine upgrade, but it looks too much like the last generation.

later
tim

kamikaz

11-28-2004, 01:16 AM

Heres one,bring back the corvair.seen some at e-town in the swap meet that are kick ass..nice LS2 with independent suspension and 6 speed :twisted:

Later,

Santos

Fasterthanyou

11-28-2004, 09:07 AM

They need to forget retro if they can't improve appon the previous models performance (cough impala cough). I like the GTO because it does a lot of things right. I hope they don't bring back the chevelle with the GTO chassis, that would be dumb. There isn't a guy alive that would buy a chevelle just because it isn't a GTO, brand isn't THAT important.
I can't decide if I'd like to see a performance fullsize or compact truck. I think between the GTO and the vette there is enough performance v8 to choose from, this will also let the aftermarket grow with lower cost parts (2 cars to fab things onto instead of like 15).
I think I want a typhoon to come back through the current chassis and xtreme styling. Give it the awd and a turbo charged v6. I think that's well within reason since GM LUV's their trucks. It's a shame they don't use power adders anymore, with the new combustion efficiencies they can get away with 6-10psi easily (emissions thoughts and CAFE mandates).
The v8's are nice but when you see inline 4's with turbo's running in the 12's from other auto manufactures you question your brand loyalties. Not that I LIKE having all these 4 bangers cursing the 1/4 mile but couldn't the cavalier have a model similar to Dodge's SRT4? A little turbo, a little tuning, some posi and a 5 speed.
I think GM's just buckling down for a hard road ahead with all the gas prices and slow economy growth. Expect GM to be making profit whilest others are fighting to break even... sometimes you just need to know when to quit and if anybody knows how to predict the market GM does. Think about it, the f-body was sucking in the sales department for almost 10 years compared to the Rustang... oh well.
So everybody stop getting into accidents with their f-bodies so I can buy a used one in the future ;) .

jims69camaro

11-28-2004, 11:26 AM

bring back the days of the COPO. let me put whatever motor i want in whatever car i want, strip it down to roll up windows, no AC, radio delete, high performance transmission, high gear rear - let me build the car i want, from the factory, and give me a warranty.

i don't think i am asking too much. 8)

p.s. i'd do a full sized car, like a caprice, with an LS2, 4L80E, 4.56:1. strip the body down to bare essentials, rubber floor mat, etc., no back seat, you know where i am going.

Tony Danza

11-28-2004, 06:22 PM

Are we picking or inventing a car that we wish we could have the ability to drive/buy, or one that we think would be the most lucrative idea for GM?

Fasterthanyou

11-28-2004, 06:45 PM

Are we picking or inventing a car that we wish we could have the ability to drive/buy, or one that we think would be the most lucrative idea for GM?
I think lucrative idea from GM. Because if I had my way I'd wish for a 1000hp single turbo 32v Arao heads ontop of a forged 327 mounted to a C5 torque tube rear transaxle in a tubeframe 69 camaro carbon fiber shell with brembo 6 pot up front, 4 in the rear, full interior and all the options you'd find in a caddy and Nissan Skyline. That's what I'd like for them to build, not that I'd buy it but it would be one awesome statement.

SpeakersGoBoom

11-28-2004, 06:59 PM

j0n

11-28-2004, 07:06 PM

new z06...7 litre lsx powerplant estimated to make in the neighborhood of 500 hp...and they're suspesion already competes with european supercars

edit: page 2 :owned: by me :lol:

Fasterthanyou

11-28-2004, 07:15 PM

does GM currently make any cars like that? completely impractical, rediculously expensive cars that get a fraction of a mile to the gallon, but are able to be considered "supercars"? that can compete with cars like ferrari, lambo, etc?
They don't. They have prototype cars that the engineers to nutz on, and then back off to like "normal way over priced ugly junk with nothing special about it."
Oh, and mph had almost nothing to do with the engine horsepower and everything to do with tuning, gearing, and vehicle weight. Those 32v heads might flow a ton but that just means I can run a smaller cam with that turbo and make awesome low end grunt. Then there's the like 2400lbs which takes less work to move than something that weight 1000lbs more (less work = less energy = less power). Don't forget the transmission, with the 6 speeds and like 3.73's out back I'd bet I'd get 16city/30highway. The highway would be effected by the cars aero and which tires I choose. Trust me, hp does NOT = gass guzzler. The c5 vettes are a perfect example.

BigAls87Z28

11-28-2004, 10:53 PM

This is personal creation, something that you want to see GM build. I mean, be reasonable. I dont think that Chevy would make a supercar...but lets see some good ideas.

COPO would be too expensive. Cars are build with ac and power door locks and etc etc....removing them and replacing them with something else would actualy make the car more expensive because they would have to develop a manual way of doing it.
COPO was a pretty big failure at its time. 69 cars, 50 sold to Frank Gibb...and he only sold a handful. Now, yeah the cars are monsters of the drag strip and legends of there time...but then...no one wanted to pay near 9k for a no equipment Camaro with just a big engine unless they wanted to race it.

Anyway, come up with an original idea. I want to do a report for GMI about enthusiast dreams, but I wana hear more about something other then Camaro or Firebird or Corvette.

Fasterthanyou

11-29-2004, 12:12 PM

but I wana hear more about something other then Camaro or Firebird or Corvette.
You're asking the wrong forum bud... it's NJFBOA.org, we're all slightly biased. :wink:
Really though, bring back the turbo typhoon, even with those crappy swirl port heads the thing was in the 13's stock! I'm sure they could get the new one into the mid 13's at the drop of a hat. If you have a poll, put that option in.

j0n

11-29-2004, 06:11 PM

:stupid: take those gay looking "xtreme" s-10s and blazers and throw in the new school 3.8 with a turbo...so they are fast and gay...as opposed to just gay lol

Fasterthanyou

11-29-2004, 06:22 PM

:stupid: take those gay looking "xtreme" s-10s and blazers and throw in the new school 3.8 with a turbo...so they are fast and gay...as opposed to just gay lol
So you wouldn't feel bad loosing to a gay truck? lol

j0n

11-29-2004, 06:38 PM

lol if it had an awd turbo 3.8 in it doin high 12s-low 13s from the factory i wouldnt have a problem wit- wait...i wouldnt lose to that come englishtown's opening day :wink: :-X

TheWraith

11-29-2004, 07:09 PM

a few ideas off the top of my head of stuff i'd be genuinely interested in:

1)something along the lines of the holden caprice, a 4 door full size with the lsX series engine, except available 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto (it's definitely time to retire the 700r4/4l60/4l60e already), rwd with optional awd, and hell maybe even a station wagon variant. The sedan should have fold down rear seats regardless for transporting big ****.

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. And it should be dirt assed cheap. That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********.

I want a truck that's cheap enough to be a second vehicle, but it should be able to tow, occasionally haul big ****, get me around in crappy winter weather and it washes out with a hose. i want something that is going to run forever too because it's too simple to break. no AWD, 4wd, with a transfer case that you shift with a level, a manual transmission,simple controls, no power options, etc.

3)something that's alternative fuel and gets ridiculous gas mileage, but it's actually cool. Maybe a little retro deal like a pt cruiser, but give it a harley davidson v-twin powering two electric motors for something like 250-300 hp, but 40+ mpg city and highway. Something with the sound of muscle, decent power, and the looks of muscle, but it's good on gas. I don't see how something like that wouldn't sell ridiculously. Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Savage_Messiah

11-29-2004, 07:44 PM

Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Prius drivers, civic drivers, civic hybrid drivers, etc...

BigAls87Z28

11-29-2004, 08:37 PM

a few ideas off the top of my head of stuff i'd be genuinely interested in:

1)something along the lines of the holden caprice, a 4 door full size with the lsX series engine, except available 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto (it's definitely time to retire the 700r4/4l60/4l60e already), rwd with optional awd, and hell maybe even a station wagon variant. Â*The sedan should have fold down rear seats regardless for transporting big ****.

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Â* Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Â*Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. Â*all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. Â* comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Â*Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. Â*throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. Â*And it should be dirt assed cheap. Â*That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********. Â*

I want a truck that's cheap enough to be a second vehicle, but it should be able to tow, occasionally haul big ****, get me around in crappy winter weather and it washes out with a hose. Â*i want something that is going to run forever too because it's too simple to break. Â*no AWD, 4wd, with a transfer case that you shift with a level, a manual transmission,simple controls, no power options, etc.

3)something that's alternative fuel and gets ridiculous gas mileage, but it's actually cool. Â*Maybe a little retro deal like a pt cruiser, but give it a harley davidson v-twin powering two electric motors for something like 250-300 hp, but 40+ mpg city and highway. Â*Something with the sound of muscle, decent power, and the looks of muscle, but it's good on gas. Â*I don't see how something like that wouldn't sell ridiculously. Â*Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Hrm....
#1 is coming true. That I can promise. Only one thing is different, it will have a 6spd manual or automatic. GM is skipping over the 5spds and going right to 6.
#2- not gunna happen any time soon. The bar for trucks have been raised by Ford's interior, and now no matter if you use it to haul two tons of sand, or 4 hot chicks...all the interiors will improve
#3- Will happen as well. The HHR, GM's PT Cruser, will get a 2.4 ecotec motor, and in the future will get a hyrbid assist motor.

Good Thinking!

As for trying not to think about Camaros and Firebirds...well, try expanding your mind and thing about other cool cars that you would like GM to make.

And the S10 has haulted production. Colorado now takes its place, and it also has an Xtreme body kit.

TheWraith

11-29-2004, 10:13 PM

Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Prius drivers, civic drivers, civic hybrid drivers, etc...

correction: what car enthusiast wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

and Al, I've read some of the stuff out there and I know that a lot of this stuff is already on the horizon. It's all about the execution. GM has been very hit or miss with the styling of all new design vehicles in the last several years. Usually if they go for brand new ground it's a miss in my opinion. If it's something that looks familiar, it's generally better.

And as far as drivetrains are concerned, GM needs to play catch up bad as well. There should have been a fwd manual that could handle the horsepower years ago. The 4L60, 4L80, and 4T80 are all dinosaurs past their time and they should be put to rest. The 4T65 is a piece of ****, flat out. The 2.8/3.4 v6 engine family dating back to the mid 80's should be scrapped. The vortec 4.3 v6 should be scrapped. Most of the primary GM engine offerings such as the vortec v8's (ls1, etc), northstars, and the series III 3800's are aging and while they are great, something bigger and better should have come along by now to trump them. There needs to be a solid rwd irs platform set up for awd out there now since the other companies are already starting to get there.

Not that there aren't things in the works, they just aren't being timed well enough or pushed into production. launching the 04 grand prix with the 3800's was a mistake, especially since they had to bitch out on the horsepower rating on the gtp because of the 4t65e, exactly like they had to 7 years before. Not to mention still no manual option. You think 7 years would have solved those problems. The G6 sounds like it's going to be an answer to those problems, but that's just going to take people out of the grand prixs, which are a huge seller. The bonneville GXP, great looking car, but the northstar/4t80 has been done 200 times already. Doing the equinox and the upcoming pontiac torrent with the 3.4 liter v6 that dates back to the mid 80's 2.8 pos is a joke too.

curt86iroc

11-29-2004, 10:47 PM

Who wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****?

Prius drivers, civic drivers, civic hybrid drivers, etc...

correction: what car enthusiast wants to drive a car that gets great mileage if it looks and sounds like ****? Â*

and Al, I've read some of the stuff out there and I know that a lot of this stuff is already on the horizon. Â*It's all about the execution. Â*GM has been very hit or miss with the styling of all new design vehicles in the last several years. Â* Usually if they go for brand new ground it's a miss in my opinion. Â*If it's something that looks familiar, it's generally better.

And as far as drivetrains are concerned, GM needs to play catch up bad as well. Â* There should have been a fwd manual that could handle the horsepower years ago. The 4L60, 4L80, and 4T80 are all dinosaurs past their time and they should be put to rest. Â*The 4T65 is a piece of ****, flat out. Â*The 2.8/3.4 v6 engine family dating back to the mid 80's should be scrapped. Â*The vortec 4.3 v6 should be scrapped. Â* Most of the primary GM engine offerings such as the vortec v8's (ls1, etc), northstars, and the series III 3800's are aging and while they are great, something bigger and better should have come along by now to trump them. Â* There needs to be a solid rwd irs platform set up for awd out there now since the other companies are already starting to get there.

Not that there aren't things in the works, they just aren't being timed well enough or pushed into production. Â*launching the 04 grand prix with the 3800's was a mistake, especially since they had to bitch out on the horsepower rating on the gtp because of the 4t65e, exactly like they had to 7 years before. Â* Not to mention still no manual option. You think 7 years would have solved those problems. Â*The G6 sounds like it's going to be an answer to those problems, but that's just going to take people out of the grand prixs, which are a huge seller. Â*The bonneville GXP, great looking car, but the northstar/4t80 has been done 200 times already. Â* Â*Doing the equinox and the upcoming pontiac torrent with the 3.4 liter v6 that dates back to the mid 80's 2.8 pos is a joke too.

the 4.3 is one of the best engines chevy ever built.

BigAls87Z28

11-29-2004, 10:51 PM

Agreed. While I will disagree with you on the OHV V8's. GM still gets praise for there very powerful, compact and fuel efficent V8's.
I dont really know why the 3.4 is used still only that the 3.4 is made in China, and its BEYOND cheap to make. IMO, the new 3.5 should have been used in all new cars.
As for teh 4spd, I wouldnt call them junk. GM's 4spd, while not having the extra gears, still are some of the finest and smoothest 4spds out there. Drive another asian 4spd auto, and then drive a GM's 4spd auto and its totaly different world. Even look at the Malibu Maxx vs the new Toyota Camry. The Camry has a little bit more power, but it needs premium gas, and with a 5spd, it STILL cant match the Malibu's gas milage. I can just imagine what GM's 6spds will do.
GM will bring out 10 new 6spd autos within the next few years.
I think that the G6 will amaze people when they go into Pontiac dealers looking for the usual plastic cladded Grand Ams, and they see this very European sport sedan.
I do wish that GM would use more of the new DOHC V6's. The 2.8 and 3.6 from Caddy should be seen more in GM's lineup.
And Zeta is that RWD/AWD chassis that you are looking for.

TheWraith

11-30-2004, 06:15 AM

Â*the 4.3 is one of the best engines chevy ever built.

i don't disagree that it's not a good engine, but it's way past it's time. for the displacement it doesn't make the power level it should, and for the power level it has it doesn't make the gas mileage it should.

also, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the OHV V8 either. But as much as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is true, I think another key to selling more cars for GM is variety. If I'm driving a 5 year old *insert most any gm car name here*, what's my incentive to move up to the new model year? More horsepower? better gas mileage? does the new model have a new trans offering? not generally happening since most vehicles are powered by the same drivetrain exactly 5 years later. Styling alone does not sell someone a new car, especially considering the ridiculous gas prices.

SpeakersGoBoom

11-30-2004, 08:09 AM

2)a real! truck/suv, **** all this cushy ****. Â* Take a tahoe and gut the interior. Â*Two front buckets, a removable center console, and a removable back bench. Â*all the interior parts should be waterproof, and no carpet, just rubber/plastic - along the lines of the honda element. Â* comes with 2 or 4 doors, rwd or awd, a bunch of different engines, including a big cube small block or big block torque monster and an available manual trans. Â*Take all the police tahoe suspension parts so it handles well. Â*throw in a removable roof section, going back to the K-blazer days. Â*And it should be dirt assed cheap. Â*That's what a truck should be, none of this soccer mom *********. Â*

Todays SUV = Yesterdays Minivan
how many people today buy an SUV and never use it for anything more than point A to B driving? my neibor owns two SUVs and neither of them have seen anything but a paved road. Its the "cool kid's" minivan, only with worse gas milage.

Like I said before, Id like to see the return of the 2 seater midengine. It was a pretty cool concept. Why did they discontinue the Fiero?

Trans Am Chick

11-30-2004, 08:15 AM

Fasterthanyou

11-30-2004, 09:42 AM

*sort of random

my step dad. hes colombian. in his family your either REALLY tall or REALLY short. he turned out the tallest of the short people @ 5'2" i dont see a problem with him being short.. but he insists on driving a frickin nissan titan.... that this is huge. at 6' I have trouble driving that truck.
That's why more pickups are driven by women now then men. They feel "safe" in a big vehicle. Being high up there is a sence of security that isn't there with a slow low car.
You're step dad probably has the first time in his life where he feels like king of the road. I'm tall, 6'4" and I drive a camaro! My dad (6'3") had 3 fiats, a subaru wagon, and a vw golf before his back got bad, now he's had 2 suburbans since 1990. He also has a new family (divorced) and so with 2 children his wife wants him to keep the suburban even though it gets 12mpg :( .
Women are the driving force behind vehicle purchases since the 90's, that's why we have so many SUV's. If it were guys we'd have sports cars and lifted jeeps, nothing imbetween. In other words, women are to blaim for the gas guzzling :wink: .
Guys are dangerous, we don't care so much about our safety. Look at most of the extream sports and you'll see what I mean. Not saying there aren't exceptions but when it comes to putting our self in harms way it's just another thrill.... like testing our cars top speed on every road trip or drag racing or tail gating a car that's only going 5 over.... it's just something guys do, weird yes, but nothing stranger than the majority of women driving around by themselves in huge trucks. In other words, if you want to pick-up a chick for life buy an SUV :wink: .

89 Trans Am WS6

11-30-2004, 02:42 PM

Talking about quick 4 bangers..and more so..exotics..GM does make a few exotic looking cars..

For example the Vauxhall VXR220..turbo 4 banger that does 0-60 in something like 4 seconds and a top speed of like 160 mph..

thats a neat car.

Also if i remember correctly there is a opel model that is preety quick too..

GM makes some exotic looking ones, jsut not in the states :roll:

enRo

11-30-2004, 03:16 PM

They also need to introduce a Pontiac P/U ... GM needs a pickup to compete with the $48,000 Dodge SRT10 with a Viper V10 motor that is supposidly very quick...

BigAls87Z28

11-30-2004, 03:31 PM

Fasterthanyou

11-30-2004, 04:37 PM

Pontiac will never make a pick up. GMC is Pontiacs truck arm anyway. And GM already has stuff for that. The new SSR with 6spd runs the same time as the L and SRT10, all done with 110hp less then the SRT10. Im sure the SSR could also top the SRT10's top speed because the SRT10 has the aerodynamics of a barn.

GM WILL make a V10 for its trucks and SUV's, and there will also be the V12 Northstar that we saw in the Cien a few years back. Chances are the V12 will also be used in Caddy's flagship 7/S/A8 series sedan.
I have a friend that's been working for Cadilac for a while now. He isn't in the prototype devision but he's an engineer with friends. When we talked about that v12 engine he told me it was nothing more than 2 LS1 blocks welded together. The heads were legit castings and so was the crank. Pretty cool engine but damn was it heavy (long steel crank). I think it's pointless to have a v12 in any car, maybe a truck, or a Cat, but not a car. v8 is just right and if they would stop making tons of blocks they could focus on stuff like things that bolt onto the blocks. Kind of a modular design that Ford went too, only with more cubes :) . Turbo, 32v heads, intakes, superchargers, etc.

BigAls87Z28

11-30-2004, 11:37 PM

Actualy...2 LS1 blocks welded together would get you 16 cyls...but whatever math you learned, stick to it...8)

Actualy, I belive what you are talking about is the Caddy V16 that was seen in the concept car of the same name. It wasnt and LS1, but based off the Gen IV small block chevy. And it wasnt 2 LS2's welded together, but just 16 cyls verson of teh Gen IV small block. It was a real working engine, and Caddy wanted it to be a real working car, not just a show car. Engine put out 1000hp with 1000tq.

The V12 is a DOHC engine that is actualy very small for a 12 cyl. Now the new special vehicle engine plant for GM will make the LS7 and the V12 by hand. The V16 might not make it, but the V12 is set for production right now.

Fasterthanyou

12-01-2004, 12:04 AM

Yeah, brain fart. v16, lol
It would have to be the gen IV blocks if it has vvt wouldn't it, lol. I'll have to tell him that. I guess he was just trying to be quick about it's explination and slipped.
What is the displacement on that v12?
david.caldwell@gm.com , he's got the inside info if you ever need to talk to somebody that's in the know. He's in his 20's and a pretty crazy guy, I've got stories about him on the FSAE team that'll make him blush if he gives you a hard time :wink: .

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 12:17 AM

Well, the V16 had DoD that shut down from 16 to 8 to 4cyls, dont know about VVT? Possible as GM has shown a 4.3 V8 that used VVt, but used 2 cams inside the block.

The XV12 is a fine work of art. It uses DOHC, VVT, Displacement on Demand, and Direct Fuel injection. It made 750hp without the use of turbos or anything. It is said to make 500hp when it makes its debut in Caddys. Engine displacement is 7.5 liters. Size is just as big as teh 8.1 V8 OHV, and as wide as the Northstar V8.

Ill have to send your friend and email, and see what I can get out of him! 8)
Thanks.

LS1LT1

12-01-2004, 01:33 AM

does GM currently make any cars like that? completely impractical, rediculously expensive cars that get a fraction of a mile to the gallon, but are able to be considered "supercars"? that can compete with cars like ferrari, lambo, etc?No, but they do make one (or 'will be' making one) that does ALL of the above except isn't completely impractical nor overly expensive and doesn't get bad fuel mileage...it's called the Corvette Z06. :rock: :mrgreen:

PBodyGT87

12-01-2004, 08:15 AM

i wouldnt mind seeing the return of a mdengine...that doesnt catch fire...
(cough:fiero:cough)

man enough with the fire jokes. that was '84 and '85 4 cyls, and they all got recalled and fixed anyway.

though i agree i would love to see it return of course hahaha.

SpeakersGoBoom

12-01-2004, 08:26 AM

Pontiac will never make a pick up. Â*GMC is Pontiacs truck arm anyway. Â*And GM already has stuff for that. Â*The new SSR with 6spd runs the same time as the L and SRT10, all done with 110hp less then the SRT10. Â*Im sure the SSR could also top the SRT10's top speed because the SRT10 has the aerodynamics of a barn. Â* Â*

GM WILL make a V10 for its trucks and SUV's, and there will also be the V12 Northstar that we saw in the Cien a few years back. Â*Chances are the V12 will also be used in Caddy's flagship 7/S/A8 series sedan.

Never say never. 10 years ago, who would have thought that cadallac would make trucks?

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 11:45 AM

Pontiac will never make a pick up. Â*GMC is Pontiacs truck arm anyway. Â*And GM already has stuff for that. Â*The new SSR with 6spd runs the same time as the L and SRT10, all done with 110hp less then the SRT10. Â*Im sure the SSR could also top the SRT10's top speed because the SRT10 has the aerodynamics of a barn. Â* Â*

GM WILL make a V10 for its trucks and SUV's, and there will also be the V12 Northstar that we saw in the Cien a few years back. Â*Chances are the V12 will also be used in Caddy's flagship 7/S/A8 series sedan.

Never say never. Â*10 years ago, who would have thought that cadallac would make trucks?

Im telling you, they wont. Maybe a cross over or a small SUV, like the upcoming Torrent, but a pick up truck will never see the light of day with a Pontiac name on it.

SpeakersGoBoom

12-01-2004, 12:01 PM

I think it would be awsome if there was a pontiac corvette. Not exactly a corvette, but something thats pontiac built thats up there. I threw some drawings together. I'll post them as soon as i get them on a computer, in case anyone from GM (specifically pontiac) is reading. :wink: Something distinctly american in power, but distinctly european in styling. rear engine, rear wheel drive coupe, side exit exhaust (almost everything i draw has a side exit exhaust. I love that idea.) like i said, i threw a rough sketch together in my notebook durring lunch. when i get home, ill scan it into the computer and try and get it online, so i can post a link to it, and you guys can tell me what you think.

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 12:10 PM

Sounds like the Solstice, since its chassis is very close in design to teh Corvette. Only, its not mid engined.

12-01-2004, 12:20 PM

i would like to see a super car, even if its just a concept... ford came out with the GT and now the Shelby as production. Â*The vette in my opinion is a great car yes, but not a supercar in my mind. too many yuppies got them around here and its annoying, I've raced a few in my SS and they werent a problem. Â*i would like to see chevy blow the doors off the ford motor company with a v12, like that caddy motor. Â*the v16 caddy motor was sick , maybe just use that, 1000hp hehe. Â*If they do it, i dont want it to be thrown together with parts from their present parts bins or anythign with that full modern retro style, omething clean, comfy and practical. Â*i dunno maybe i'm just old fashinoed but billet aluminum has its place and its not to accent every dahm piece of an interior... Â*
oh yea, and they need to stick a LS2/t56 in a 2wd colorado standard cab shortbed Â*:roll:

SpeakersGoBoom

12-01-2004, 12:25 PM

ok, when i say like the corvette, i dont mean really like a vette. Â*I mean something that can compete with it. Â*something with 400+ horsepower, with a top speed of almost 200 mph, that can do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, etc, and in a body that screams of more than just power. Â*even if its not really affordable, just an all out effort by pontiac to make something BIG! Â*something that will forever be remembered, like the original GTO. Â*Like i said, all out. Â*the biggest motor they can come up with. Â*Styling that mixes ferrari, loutus, porche, and noble, among other european manufacturers. Â*something that, while not practical, is something people can go to be dreaming about, and they wake up finding themselves with their arms out in front of them like their holding the steering wheel. something with a NAME that inspires passion, like Firehawk did. Â*Something people WANT to see in exotic car callendars, along with the modena, the slr, the s1, the mc12, the esprit, etc. Â*am i making sense, or am i just pretty much talking to myself?

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 12:25 PM

Hrm....supercar concept....

http://www.fast-cars.ch/images/Cadillac/Cien/Cadillac_Cien_6.jpg

SpeakersGoBoom

12-01-2004, 12:28 PM

YES!!!!!!! (but with pontiac badges and styling) what is the name of that car? i have a calendar with it featured in one of the months, but the callander doesnt give any names.

12-01-2004, 12:32 PM

al...yes that is exactly what i want...mmmmm :drool: Â* so...when will that be available and who do i ahve to kill to get one...haha Â*:lol:

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 12:38 PM

That would be the Cien, a concept car done to celebrate Caddy's 100th birthday (Cien=100).
Hrmm...The car wont be available any time soon, but it is deffinatly something that Caddy wants to do. First, they need to get the STS out and into the minds of luxury buyers, then they will release there large sedan to really show off there power, and then Id say that if all goes well, a Caddy Supercar could see the light of day some time next decade. Caddy has bigger things to worry about.

enRo

12-01-2004, 03:45 PM

Bring back Geo Prizms :lol: :lol: :lol: (joke) :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can see SUVs not being reproduced, due to the hate of the "Aztek flop" (which sold something like less than 10,000 total)... but maybe a pickup truck would be nice, small or large.

*Edit* Talking about Pontiac here...

BigAls87Z28

12-01-2004, 04:36 PM

The Aztek will be replaced by the Pontiac Torrent, which is, more or less, a rebadged Chevy Equinox. Different suspension, same engine and 5spd auto trans. Its a much nicer looking SUV, but doesnt have the flexablity that the Aztek had.

And the Geo Prizm has be recreated with teh Chevy Aveo.

SpeakersGoBoom

12-01-2004, 11:10 PM

THAT UGLY POS?! I'd drive a prizm with a SMILE ON MY FACE before id drive that thing!

BigAls87Z28

12-02-2004, 12:15 AM

ahhhh...I dunno about that. Aveo hatch is pretty cool for a teenager kid...better then the xA.

SpeakersGoBoom

12-02-2004, 12:19 AM

ahhhh...I dunno about that. Â*Aveo hatch is pretty cool for a teenager kid...better then the xA.

well, thats like saying cheep no name brand boots are better for your feet in the winter than sandles. and as far as scion goes, the tC isnt that bad looking. dont know anything other than what i see, but compared to the xA and xB, its actually somewhat attractive.

skorpion317

12-02-2004, 03:20 AM

Pontiac should only make cars, not trucks or SUV's. They are GM's "performance division", and I don't exactly see too many of GM's trucks/SUV's being performance vehicles. Unless they bring back the Typhoon/Syclone...

jims69camaro

12-02-2004, 10:22 AM

well, i'm basically a car enthusiast. to dismiss the COPO the way you did as some kind of failure just shows you don't really understand what they did. they were the fleet line that built cop cars, taxis, etc., basically built-to-order cars. that's what i am talking about. maybe this discussion was more about style and less about performance? i'm talking about bringing back the build-to-order capability and slamming an LS2 into a solstice (assuming the engineers could make it fit). the nice thing about the early camaros is that they could accept whatever engine in the lineup - just change the motor mounts and mate it up to a transmission and you were done. that's why guys like gibbs, nickey, yenko and baldwin were able to build cars in their dealership. then they found out that the cars could be ordered that way from the factory, via the COPO division, and that's when you learned about the 69 cars being produced. how many cars were custom tailored in these guys' service shops? no one knows for sure, but if you have a plain-jane exterior and a 454 under the hood, chances are one of those dealerships built the car. trust me, this is under heavy discussion in the first gen groups, as it's not easy to document and if the car doesn't have the original paperwork (who knew back then to save the window sticker?) or the build sheet, it's not believed.

what i am saying is give us back the ability to build our own cars. that would sell more cars, IMO, because imagine the highest output engine in the lightest chassis... and having enough wherewithall to carve the sharpest corners AND look good at the cruise nights. far more enthusiasts would forget about the good old days and get off their butts to buy a new car. again, just my humble opinion. why else would the CTS-V and the z06 be so popular among the baby boomers that have disposible income? if we're talking dollars and cents for the car producers...

BigAls87Z28

12-02-2004, 10:48 AM

I agree about the coolness of COPO. What I am trying to say that for GM to have such an opperation would be very costly. Another aspect is that putting an LS2 into a Solstice, or something like that, would require HOURS of engineering work of retuning the suspension, and crash testing, and emissions testing, along with everything else, and they would NEVER make that money back. This isnt the 60's where this was possible.
I think if you want super performance cars, GM will build them. I dont think that most older muscle car guys would go buy a "new" muslce car just based on that its new and that it doesnt have the same meaning of there old muscle car. Just read this.
There's something about old muscle cars that the newer guys just won't understand. Maybe it's the funny smell, or the fact that you'd be nuts to drive one without air conditioning (imagine that!), or actually not even care about gas mileage. Sorry, new sports cars are technologically superior no doubt, but old cars have ....an aura....a pinache if you will over new cars..problem is, until you own one, you will never ever understand. Todays cars are just that...cars. Old cars...they're a lifestyle, attitude, and way of life that just isn't matched anywhere else I've seen with car enthusiasts.

There is a market for performance cars, there is no doubt. But the only time you are going to see these cars is if GMPD makes it for you, fully engineered for tearing into a turn, ripping you out of a hole, and smashing your face to the windshield when you need to stop.