saw a 3rd Gen Formula on the dyno today....

[skorpion317]

I go to Lincoln Tech (started Jan. 19th). we got to go down to the shop today to see a dyno run. A black 91-92 Formula was strapped on, ready to go. I asked around, and found out it was a stock 305, automatic. the guy made a few pulls, with the last pull reading (at the wheels):

184 HP, 387 ft. lbs. of torque.

NO, that's not a typo. that was the actual readout on the computer screen. I started freaking out, cuz i knew something had to be wrong. After the last pull, they did a 1/4 mile run. 1st run, a 14.9 @ 97 MPH. 2nd run, 14.82 @ 99 MPH. 3rd run, 14.8 @ 98 MPH. 4th run, 13.9 @ 98 MPH.

"WTF is going on?!" I wondered. Keep in mind, this was a stock 305. I asked the owner if he had any mods, and he said only a gutted cat. :shock: I asked what gears he had, and he says.........
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Wait for it..............
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"I put it in drive." I almost punched the kid in the face. Instead, I calmly asked, "What rear gear ratio do you have?" He told me 3.73's.

Something was seriously wrong in this situation. The dyno was a Mustang dyno. the HP reading was right on target, i think, for a 135,000-mile 305. the torque reading, on the other hand, was wayyyy off the chart. and the 1/4 mile runs? the first few runs were on target with the time, but the MPH seemed kinda high. The 60-ft times for the 1st two runs were in the 2.8 range. the 3rd run was a 2.4, and the 4th run was a 2.37. the 4th run time was outlandish, completely inaccurate. if this car was at the track, it'd probably run high 14's, low 15's (i'm accounting for the 3.73's). i think the teacher that was calibrating the dyno screwed up big-time, but i have no way of knowing for sure. anyone wanna help me out?

[Wasted Youth]

ehh i doubt he has 3.73's first of all...thats like everyone and there mom has a 350hp chevy 350....lol prolly just a bone stock formula with a torque number that is way off....3.73's actually hurt third gens because of the low end torque they have....3.42 is the ideal ratio...i have 3.73 in my red 5 speed car and it actually made the car slower and made 1st gear completely useless...but i am going to play with the car and change the intake style for higher end power so the gears will benefit...and that was my original intention anyway...

[matt98ls1]

something definitely isnt right with that... 387 ft.lbs of torque?? damn.. yea, talk about some horrible calibration errors.







whole new definition for the term "factory freak" :kneeslap:

[Fasterthanyou]

Was it a double roller or single? If it's a single good, double bad.
For a stock TPI 305 the hp sounds right but the torque is obviously way off. What's even stranger is that HP is derived from the torque measured. Unless this dyno is an inertia dyno... can it hold a load or do you just punch it and spin the roller(s)?
I know my fair share about dyno's. I'm working on becoming a calibrations engineer. Everybody wants 5 years in the field and relocation to detroit :( ... kind of sucks I only have 1 year nobody even looks my way. Think Lincoln tech needs a dyno operator? If you could ask for me I'd appreciate it. It would be one more reason for me to check it out.

[BigAls87Z28]

Oh jesus, not another Linc Tech kid!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!! :lol:

sorry, havent had much luck with LT kids in my store.
Torque is way off, but hp is high for a 135k 305 TPI. Thats about 220hp and on a Mustang dyno, its pretty good. I assume this is a G92 car?

[foff667]

yah everything sounds off and i dont trust any dyno to calculate 1/4 mile time. if his converter was unlocked alot of times you'll get a huge tq spike right at the beginning of the run and to be honest theres no way to figure out the true tq in that case...lock up the converter on the dyno then see what kinda numbers it puts up...also the hp # would be higher if the converter is locked...even if he made 200 hp to the wheels locked thats a very good number for a basically stock 305 tpi car one way or the other.

[Fasterthanyou]

yah everything sounds off and i dont trust any dyno to calculate 1/4 mile time. if his converter was unlocked alot of times you'll get a huge tq spike right at the beginning of the run and to be honest theres no way to figure out the true tq in that case...lock up the converter on the dyno then see what kinda numbers it puts up...also the hp # would be higher if the converter is locked...even if he made 200 hp to the wheels locked thats a very good number for a basically stock 305 tpi car one way or the other.
Actually the torque multiplication from the converter is the true rear wheel torque. An infinately variable gear so to speak when it's stalling so that torque spike might actually be very true.
As for locking up the TCC, not a good idea. The TCC is a very small clutch, they're designed for cruising loads only and unlock under hard acceleration so as not to tear themselves apart. Most stock TCCs are only single disk, 3 disks are an "upgrade" but again, not ment to take abuse. There is hard evidence from the GN guys that locking the TCC in the 1/4 mile will lead to early transmission rebuilds.
As for the horsepower, that number is very accurate for that motor. The Speed density TPI years had great programming code. Stock I've seen real 235hp LB9's (the 305) and 245hp L98's, so that horsepower number is well within reason.
With the torque of the TPI and 305 multiplied by the TC slip you could see 387 ft-lbs of torque, all depends on the torque converter.

[j0n]

it could always be a 383 stroker in disguise :lol:

once again strapping helmet on for battle

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Oh jesus, not another Linc Tech kid!! Â*RUN FOR THE HILLS!! Â*:lol:

sorry, havent had much luck with LT kids in my store. Â*
Torque is way off, but hp is high for a 135k 305 TPI. Â*Thats about 220hp and on a Mustang dyno, its pretty good. Â*I assume this is a G92 car?


Kind of off topic but i Just wanted to say that Lincoln Tech is a great school. Im currently in my 6th class and know ALOT more then i Did when I went in. The school has tons of resources, full subscriptions to mictchell and alldata, lots of lifts, dead bays, really nice alignment racks, top end scan tools (The new snapon scanner is sweet) autotap, and lots more. The problem is half of the student body, if not more, shouldnt be their. The ones that you got working with you AL, prolly shouldnt be. You really should see it, theirs the group of gear heads, who want to learn, and who try and get every bit of knowledge and experience they can from the school, and their are the clowns who would rather run around the school screaming, trying to do burnouts in the shop(big no no), breaking ****, and just being all out idiots. Im sure skorpion can agree. If you want it, theirs alot for the taking.

Not to mention the staff has some preety cool muscle car guys. One older guy was a pro stock driver in his day too. Way cool.

Which campus do you go to Skorpion? Union or Mahwah? AM or PM?

[skorpion317]

Joe, you know who i am dammit.

LT is a great school, the equipment is outstanding. The teachers are cool, a lot of Chevy muscle car guys. What Joe said is right, about the gear heads and the idiots. There's a handful of guys in my class who are into getting their hands dirty and actually learning how to work on a car. The rest are a bunch of ricer potheads who only want to learn how to install a fart can and a wing on their own without having to take it to a shop. Case in point: We have a '70s Chevy V8 in our classroom, fully assembled except for an ignition and fuel system. We took it apart on Monday. About 4 guys, myself included, did all the work. The rest stood around, talking about VTEC and what light-up battery cover they were gonna get for their cell phones. They only got their hands dirty from the parts we were handing to them.

If you actually work and want to succeed, then Lincoln Tech is a great school. If you want to screw around and bul**** all day, then you'll fail, just like any other school. I plan on having all 8 ASE certifications by the time i leave, along with a 100% attendance rate and a 4.0 GPA. definitely possible. Hard to do, yes, but well within my abilities. Then I'll be able to get a job at a luxury dealership, or go work for a performance shop, or a million other jobs.

Joe, I go to the Mahwah campus, Afternoon program. I see your car there sometimes. there's a few other F-bodies there....i flyered one 3rd gen, and talked to the owners of two 4th gen Trans Am's (an LS1 and an LT1). hopefully we can get some more guys on the boards.

[BigAls87Z28]

I guess I get the rejects. No one drops more cars or forgets to tighten more wheels then LT kids.

[skorpion317]

I guess I get the rejects. No one drops more cars or forgets to tighten more wheels then LT kids.

you must get the rejects. there are a lot of them, but that's because they don't take it seriously. like i said, they're all ricer potheads. several kids in my class go out and smoke up during breaks. i'll have to make sure they don't touch the lifts when we go into the shop. the amount of rice there is incredible, it's like an automotive version of hell in the parking lot.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah...stoner pot heads would describe them. Only one of them was a ricer, but he has already been let go after double-gasketing an oil filter and causing us to buy a brand new 4.6 V8 for a Grand Mark.

[skorpion317]

Yeah...stoner pot heads would describe them. Only one of them was a ricer, but he has already been let go after double-gasketing an oil filter and causing us to buy a brand new 4.6 V8 for a Grand Mark.

how the hell do you double gasket an oil filter? how friggin stupid do you have to be?

[foff667]

id assume the old filters gasket probably stuck on and he didnt take it off...then went and screwed in the new filter and oil just kept leaking and leaking till there was none left, ran dry and took out some bearings.

[skorpion317]

id assume the old filters gasket probably stuck on and he didnt take it off...then went and screwed in the new filter and oil just kept leaking and leaking till there was none left, ran dry and took out some bearings.

i knew what happened when it's double-gasketed, i meant how could one person be so stupid that they didn't remove the old gasket.

[BigAls87Z28]

I dunno...just seems them LT kids keep doing it, and whatever bonus I was supposed to get, went down the tubes cause we had to buy a new engine.
He has moved on and now does oil changes for a dealer....yeah

[Tru2Chevy]

i knew what happened when it's double-gasketed, i meant how could one person be so stupid that they didn't remove the old gasket.

Well, that is a dumb mistake, but in my experience with my own cars and working at my dad's shop, I don't think I've ever seen a gasket stick to the block rather than stay with the oil filter when you remove it (not saying that it doesn't happen, it's just not common). So the kid just wasn't paying attention.

- Justin

[89 Trans Am WS6]

Pat, i dont know why i kept saying skorpion, must of been out of it.

Your ripping down that red and chrome small block? So your in intro still right? Whos your instructor?

So your ready to talk to the right teachers Laragh (sp) has a chevelle that runs 10.8s with a mild tune..hellwig has a 5.0 stang that he drives their daily that runs 12.8s NA and he hasnt run on the bottle yet plus a 50th anniv vette and a old school vette thats gonna be a straight drag car i think....kent has a nova that hes dropping a 572 in..buckley(sp) the old guy used to race on a pro stock team and most if not all the instructors say "they only wish they knew half of what buckley forgot" hes a whole wealth of info so hope you get him for engine performance or something and take lots of notes.


I guess im used to looking for the maro not a lincoln..ill be on the lookout then lol

[Savage_Messiah]

a big... old... lincoln

[Oddball]

[quote="89 Trans Am WS6
Kind of off topic but i Just wanted to say that Lincoln Tech is a great school. Im currently in my 6th class and know ALOT more then i Did when I went in. The school has tons of resources, full subscriptions to mictchell and alldata, lots of lifts, dead bays, really nice alignment racks, top end scan tools (The new snapon scanner is sweet) autotap, and lots more. The problem is half of the student body, if not more, shouldnt be their. Â*The ones that you got working with you AL, prolly shouldnt be. You really should see it, theirs the group of gear heads, who want to learn, and who try and get every bit of knowledge and experience they can from the school, and their are the clowns who would rather run around the school screaming, trying to do burnouts in the shop(big no no), breaking ****, and just being all out idiots. Im sure skorpion can agree. If you want it, theirs alot for the taking.
quote]

Another off-topic question: I am not looking to become a mechanic but would like to take a class or two a Lincoln Tech / Penco Tech, etc... just to learn about my car. Do you guys think those kinds of schools are good for someone technical who wants to get his hands dirty once in a while?

[Savage_Messiah]

Would your school have a handy dandy programmer so calibrate my car for the 3.42 gears once it's finally done? and/or for my 245/50's?? :D

[skorpion317]

Pat, i dont know why i kept saying skorpion, must of been out of it.

Your ripping down that red and chrome small block? So your in intro still right? Whos your instructor?

So your ready to talk to the right teachers Laragh (sp) has a chevelle that runs 10.8s with a mild tune..hellwig has a 5.0 stang that he drives their daily that runs 12.8s NA and he hasnt run on the bottle yet plus a 50th anniv vette and a old school vette thats gonna be a straight drag car i think....kent has a nova that hes dropping a 572 in..buckley(sp) the old guy used to race on a pro stock team and most if not all the instructors say "they only wish they knew half of what buckley forgot" hes a whole wealth of info so hope you get him for engine performance or something and take lots of notes.


I guess im used to looking for the maro not a lincoln..ill be on the lookout then lol

yeah, still in Intro. we had that SBC torn apart in about 15 minutes. My instructor is Basile....cool guy, has a '66 327-powered Malibu that runs low 13's. I see a few other F-bodies around, mostly daytime, but a few afternoon guys. I saw your car once or twice, Joe. I'm assuming your doing daytime, right?

[89 Trans Am WS6]

yep, im there 7:15 every morn..

even if we did have software to do that for your wheels/tires you cant take any non family members cars into the shop;x

pat start posting on disturbance again ;)

[skorpion317]

Lol, I saw you today Joe. You were heading onto 17 north as i was going to school. can't miss those black steelies on the red car.

[84HOtransam]

Yeah...stoner pot heads would describe them. Â*Only one of them was a ricer, but he has already been let go after double-gasketing an oil filter and causing us to buy a brand new 4.6 V8 for a Grand Mark.

how the hell do you double gasket an oil filter? how friggin stupid do you have to be?

im guilty of forgetting to remove the old gasket...i used one of those k and n filters..the gasket was really thick and i just forgot to remove it when i put the new filter on (im used to it being stuck to the old filter)....i caught myself as i was backing out of the driveway and saw the oil slick...i just cut the engine and look to see what i had dont..

my lesson only cost me a few qts of oil though..

[Wasted Youth]

i've seen the double gasket thing happen once...gasket stuck to the block....someone elses **** up...i usually run my finger on the surface to check...i remember hearing the story the following day at work as i left early that day...