Microsoft isn't scared... they lie, check this out.

[Fasterthanyou]

I just did some research because I was tired of reading Microsoft's propaganda from their daughter companies (they own most of the world). Check out this graph I've compiled regarding Firefox's influence and a prediction of it's market share. Funny thing is Microsoft keeps talking and posting articles about why they AREN'T worried but look at the facts.
I think it's safe to say that Microsoft is getting ROCKED. I can't think of one reason why IE is better than Firefox except maybe it's truly bug free, just not secure as it could be. It's like the backorfice virus that was so popular with win98. Why does EVERY windows installation have to have all these ports open for exploits? The majority of PC's never need them but Microsoft felt the need to install them AND activate them, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
So anyways, if you haven't already checked it out, do it. Firefox is the better browser right now and I've tried EVERYTHING. I even have Opera and had tried it back in 2000, it was okay but it's not open source. The open source will keep Firefox ahead of the hackers. Also, the extensions give Firefox the ability to be customized like you wouldn't believe. I bet I've cut my "mouse clicking" in half just by switching to this browser. I've been a geek for years and I think Justin will back me up on this one, IE pails in comparison. Download it and take back your computer. It is almost EXACTLY like IE as far as the navigation and general user interface is concerned and it won't replace IE. It'll even import your IE bookmarks during the installation process.

http://img38.exs.cx/img38/8950/firefoxrocksie7ta.th.png (http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=firefoxrocksie7ta.png)

[NLinnear]

I also use Firefox. It can be buggy at times but I prefer it of IE and it's free. I read an article concerning the the future of Firefox and there are some concerns for the company ahead. I think Google is going to have to hop on board.

[Koll]

RIDE THE FIRE
FIREFOX!

[Trans Am Chick]

i used to use firefox but it just ran so much slower then IE. i switched back... i still have it... but i only use it on occasion.

[matt98ls1]

for me, firefox seems to load a lot faster than IE used to. the tabbed browsing is cool, and its cut down on number of pop-ups and adware crap.

[TheWraith]

exactly what data is that graph based on? a lot of people have adopted firefox - but mainly in addition to ie, which is still more widely accepted. i hear all the time about sites that don't work right on ff, and 99% of users are going to keep ie around for that reason, not to mention it's basically built into windows. I think more realistically what's happening, is that firefox usage is definitely going up, and ie is declining, just at a far lower rate than shown there. Your graph seems very much biased on usage of one browser or the other, you can't use both. In my opinion, firefox will need to work perfectly with 99.9% of the sites on the net, and I don't see that happening in the next 6 months, especially because if a lot of sites were modified to work perfectly in firefox, they might sacrifice ie functionality. So it's basically a big catch 22, firefox might not get big enough to pass ie without some serious web site adaptation, but the web site adaptation won't happen until firefox gets enormous. Basically the same argument in a nutshell that has kept microsoft operating systems dominant forever now. People aren't going to start porting their software over to other operating systems unless there's a user demand, and people aren't going to move over to other operating systems without the software.

i also think ie is currently, and will continue to be the heavily dominant browser in a corporate environment, because most intranet apps are very specifically written for ie support.

[matt98ls1]

i hear all the time about sites that don't work right on ff, and 99% of users are going to keep ie around for that reason, not to mention it's basically built into windows.

..your graph seems very much biased on usage of one browser or the other, you can't use both. In my opinion, firefox will need to work perfectly with 99.9% of the sites on the net, and I don't see that happening in the next 6 months, especially because if a lot of sites were modified to work perfectly in firefox, they might sacrifice ie functionality.


to clear this up... basically IE has always been broken and improperly working, so web developers have always coded INCORRECTLY to make this APPEAR correct in IE.

Firefox does the job exactly correctly and some stuff looks ****** due to the code being written for IE.

[ShitOnWheels]

I use Opera, but many sites don't look right, so I'll switch to IE for those. There are a couple sites that won't print right from Opera either. Otherwise, Opera it is.

[Tru2Chevy]

I use Opera, but many sites don't look right, so I'll switch to IE for those. Â*There are a couple sites that won't print right from Opera either. Â*Otherwise, Opera it is.

I too noticed this problem with Opera (ver 6.05), and continued to use it anyway. Firefox 1.0 is much better. You should try it out. Many websites aren't coded to W3C standards, mainly because IE doesn't use them....it abides by it's own standards. Firefox does a much better job of displaying sites that aren't up to standard than Opera does.

As for those who used to use mozilla or firefox back in the day and thought it was slow, do yourself a favor and download firefox 1.0 (1.1 should be released within the next few weeks).

Jon, I don't know where the data on that chart came from, but it does look a bit too optimistic at this point.

- Justin

For those who don't get WIRED magazine, read this....great article on Firefox: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/firefox.html

[Untamed]

My personal preference is IE. It works. It has had few problems. It's actively supported by a cash-rich company. It's a standard across most industries in the business world. And it's easy to use and upgrade.

Easy + free = my first choice

[Tru2Chevy]

My personal preference is IE. Â*It works. Â*It has had few problems. Â*It's actively supported by a cash-rich company. Â*It's a standard across most industries in the business world. Â*And it's easy to use and upgrade.

Easy + free = my first choice

Firefox is also easy and free...and is supported by tons more programmers than IE due to it being open source.

- Justin

[Untamed]

My personal preference is IE. Â*It works. Â*It has had few problems. Â*It's actively supported by a cash-rich company. Â*It's a standard across most industries in the business world. Â*And it's easy to use and upgrade.

Easy + free = my first choice

Firefox is also easy and free...and is supported by tons more programmers than IE due to it being open source.

- Justin

True enough. I guess for me the old addage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies. Im old, stogy and set in my ways. :wink:

[Koll]

The reason FF doesnt work with some websites, is cause the person who coded it was an ******* and used someprogram to do it for than. If anyone is here always check your site first. http://validator.w3.org/

Also, someone should post a transparrent .png just to show how IE sucks.

[Tru2Chevy]

The reason FF doesnt work with some websites, is cause the person who coded it was an ******* and used someprogram to do it for than. If anyone is here always check your site first. http://validator.w3.org/

That isn't always the case. In most cases it's just lazy programming...people cut corners because they can. Most code-generators are inline with W3C, they just generate extremely bloated code.

- Justin

[foff667]

i use firefox pretty often now that jon suggested it ot me...but yah it does have some glitches but with how fast it loads compared to IE6 i could care less about the little stuff.

[GrandmasterCow]

firefox rox0rs, ie blows. bottom line.

[Fasterthanyou]

"It's actively supported by a cash-rich company."-Untamed
I hope you're kidding. Because the real reason firefox is exploading with popularity is the fact they Microsoft has NOT actively supported their browser. The only thing Microsoft has done is sit on it with patchs to keep it safe (but have failed at that too).
As far as my stats source, I picked one that has had a LONG log history and rather large visitor count. http://www.w3schools.com/ It's a very reputable source even though they're based in UK. The majority of their visitors are from the US.
Trust me, I'm not blowing smoke up anybody's ass my graph is pretty accurate. If you get the chance to look at some server logs that record unique visitor browser stats then do it, you'll notice the same trend.
I'll admit one thing, that Firefox will NOT replace IE but as it stands there is no chance in hell that IE is going to keep up with Firefox. With as many developers as Firefox has it's just impossible for IE to come up with as many features/advantages. Linux should have done the same thing years ago but it didn't. The majority of Linux developers were young and forced (through school or work) to use Microsoft products, it's a shame that never took off like firefox. Also, Firefox is a crossplatform browser meaning it is more likely to be adapted by companies since the majority of other operating systems is in the corperate world.
As Justin and goat pointed out, IE and microsoft in general has done a very poor job of optimizing code. A perfect example of this is Microsoft's frontpage. Make a page with a table on it that's pretty big. Then select the table and change the font color, not look at the html. Intead of one tag before and aft it's put code in EACH cell to have that color. The HTML is bloated when it should be intelligent enough to understand that since you've only got 1 color, that it could do the WHOLE table with just a couple tags instead of those couple x however many cells are in the table.
That's just the simple bloating, it goes WAY deeper when you look at the script IE wants compared to the TRUE standards. Microsoft has made it's own standards which aren't compatible and developers have had to accept it :( .
I'm telling you all right now that Microsoft is sweating bullets since the internet is so important right now. They're starting to integrate features like the "spyware remover", and are talking about unbundling IE from the OS. What do you think all that means? Honestly I can only think of evil reasons why Microsoft is unbundling IE from the OS... maybe so they can profit from selling IE to the users that don't already know about Firefox and the alternatives?!?! I really don't know, I'm just guessing here but it seems like a logical buisness reason if you're about to start loosing a war, why not take some money and run.

[TheWraith]

to clear this up... basically IE has always been broken and improperly working, so web developers have always coded INCORRECTLY to make this APPEAR correct in IE.

Firefox does the job exactly correctly and some stuff looks ****** due to the code being written for IE.

not broken, but yes improperly working if you are all for the w3 standards. microsoft refuses to follow w3 standards, but then again, they have added functionality that the w3's standards don't have yet. I should also add that the two most popular browsers to current have been ie and netscape, and neither gave a **** about w3 standards :lol:

[TheWraith]

As far as my stats source, I picked one that has had a LONG log history and rather large visitor count. http://www.w3schools.com/ It's a very reputable source even though they're based in UK. The majority of their visitors are from the US.

no offense, but without even going into that link, i can already suspect it would be a biased source. as mentioned before, microsoft could basically give a **** about the w3 standards, never have. I'd assume the users of a site called "w3schools" do actually care about the w3 standards, so they're going to be obviously leaning toward the standards compliant browser 8)

and for the record, the people bashing programmers whose code/websites might not work properly in firefox, keep in mind a lot of the development of these sites long predate firefox itself. And it really hasn't been a competitive browser on the radar since even more recently. Yeah you can check code against w3 standards, but realistically every browser is going to have it's nuances. The standards are only standards, they aren't specific on graphical presentation and implementations.

[Tru2Chevy]

Just for fun, I checked the stats for browsers on this site....

Since day one:
IE: 89.049%
Mozilla: 4.255%
Opera: 3.337%
Safari: 1.014%

During the past week:
IE: 85.840%
Mozilla: 8.127%
Opera: 2.072%
Safari: 1.386%

- Justin

[Fasterthanyou]

As far as my stats source, I picked one that has had a LONG log history and rather large visitor count. http://www.w3schools.com/ It's a very reputable source even though they're based in UK. The majority of their visitors are from the US.

no offense, but without even going into that link, i can already suspect it would be a biased source. as mentioned before, microsoft could basically give a **** about the w3 standards, never have. I'd assume the users of a site called "w3schools" do actually care about the w3 standards, so they're going to be obviously leaning toward the standards compliant browser 8)

I don't take offense but not even looking over the website and then voicing an opinion just lost you a few points in my book.
I hope you're point is that "geek" website statistics shouldn't be used in determining worldwide browser usage statistics. If that's what you're trying to say then ignore the point deduction. (Still think you should check it out)
Oh, and they aren't "leaning" statistics don't lean and if they're fudged well they still usually represent the general trend which is IE loosing and Firefox winning. Look at the derivatives right now and you'll see why Microsoft should be worried, they're loosing their share and it's only going to get worse.
The developers of websites and internet code visit the w3 standards page, and often I might add. It could be because there are a lot more new firefox developers right now but it's safe to say that it's a significant increase and Microsoft should be worried, especially since they've done nothing but sit on the current IE.

Justin, you're stats for this server are probably just a few of us, Tim's the Opera guy, and I just converted Bill to Firefox (I think) so that's like 3 of us here :) . Maybe we'll see more, I hope we do because that'll only bring better things from both companies. Kind of like how AMD's Athlon took on Intel's P3 and early P4.

[Tru2Chevy]

Justin, you're stats for this server are probably just a few of us, Tim's the Opera guy, and I just converted Bill to Firefox (I think) so that's like 3 of us here :) . Maybe we'll see more, I hope we do because that'll only bring better things from both companies. Kind of like how AMD's Athlon took on Intel's P3 and early P4.

Well, judging by earlier responses, I think there are a few more people than us three using FF. I'm just pissed because I'm stuck with IE here at work (no software installations without Admin privaleges :cry: ). With as much as I'm on at work, I bet Mozilla would be over 10% if I had it here :D

- Justin

[NLinnear]

I'm just pissed because I'm stuck with IE here at work (no software installations without Admin privaleges :cry: ).

Justin, can you not download a version that doesn't need to be installed? I think the nightly builds are like that.

Michael

[skorpion317]

Firefox is much better. IE craps out on me all the time. The only problem I have with Firefox is that it might not load up a site the first time you order it to. It'll time out, or say the site doesn't exist. On the next try, it loads right up. strange. However, it never crashes like IE does.

[Tru2Chevy]

I'm just pissed because I'm stuck with IE here at work (no software installations without Admin privaleges Â*:cry: ).

Justin, can you not download a version that doesn't need to be installed? Â*I think the nightly builds are like that.

Michael

Eh? I didn't know such a version existed....

- Justin

[NLinnear]

Pat - If you use OOL, they've been having DNS issues. That might be contributing to your browser issues.

Justin - The earlier beta versions of FF did not come with an installer. If you look up "Firefox nightly builds" at Mozilla.org, you'll get a link for their FTP site. Just download the zip version for win32 and give that a shot.

[Tru2Chevy]

Justin - The earlier beta versions of FF did not come with an installer. Â*If you look up "Firefox nightly builds" at Mozilla.org, you'll get a link for their FTP site. Â*Just download the zip version for win32 and give that a shot.

Got the file....win2k pc at work has no support for zip files. GAAH! Anyone know of a .zip extractor that doesn't require an installation?

- Justin

[Tru2Chevy]

Bah....gave up searching for self-extracting .zip extractor. I'll do it tonight and toss it on a CD to bring to work tomorrow.

- Justin

[Fasterthanyou]

I'm just pissed because I'm stuck with IE here at work (no software installations without Admin privaleges :cry: ).

Justin, can you not download a version that doesn't need to be installed? I think the nightly builds are like that.

Michael

Eh? I didn't know such a version existed....

- Justin
http://www.mozilla.org/developer/

[Tru2Chevy]

VICTORY!!!

This post is being made from FF :D

- Justin

[NLinnear]

Good job :)

[Tru2Chevy]

Not sure what is up, but I managed to get 1.0.1 installed. It's acting REALLY buggy. I can't scroll without the screen freezing....I'll scroll half a page, then reload it, and it will display fine. 1.0.1 didn't do this on my home PC.....any ideas?

- Justin

[NLinnear]

Not sure what is up, but I managed to get 1.0.1 installed. It's acting REALLY buggy. I can't scroll without the screen freezing....I'll scroll half a page, then reload it, and it will display fine. 1.0.1 didn't do this on my home PC.....any ideas?

- Justin

This seems to be a problem for more than a few. I have been checking the Firefox support forums for answers. Nothing that looks promising though. Go here ----> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewforum.php?f=38 and do a search. Hope that helps ya.