And I still have that tree!:grin:

:lol:

and on that mustang did they do anything else to compensate for not having the cat there any more? take out fuel? add timing?
maybe f-bodies just have a better response to getting rid of them since everyone seems to pick up enough power to add at least 1 full mph to their trap speeds, even with out tuning.

sounds great in person!!!

:werd:

It sure did sound great, both in the parking lot, and on 55 heading to the meet.

- Justin

Tim, you keep comparing to stock cats and that's not the point I'm making. All your examples except for your car were people removing a stock cat. Every car will pick up power removing the stock cat, but a high flow cat will make almost the same power as no cat. You can lean it out and add timing to pick up 5 hp but your motor will not last very long as proven by all those guys who lost their motors. Your car was tuned for no cat so you added a high flow and damaged it with a too lean mixture, then you blame it on the cat. The Chevy High Performance test I quoted above was done to make maximum power so I would think they tuned it without the cats and with the cats and made the same power. There have been lots of tests done showing virtually no loss of power. Your car was not a real test because of the way it was tuned. A catalytic converter is a normal maintenance item and when it has high miles it won't function like it was new. So replace it with a high flow cat and stay legal. Tune the car for the high flow cat. You change plugs, wires, air filters so change the cat.

crap I guess I shoulda got a high flow cat then huh? well I have the cut out so...

actually jeff, my car still had a stock chip in it. that means there was plenty of fuel and no timing, not to mention that the car was not daily driven in the few months teh cat was on. assuming the cat was damaged somehow is not an answer for disputing my claim. it was only about 3months old when removed, had stock fuel and timing tables fed to it, and was driven 2000 miles at most. it was a random tech"high flow" cat and i saw a huge gain from eliminating it. and that was after i saw no gain at all going from stock 2 1/2 to 3inch too.
the result of huge gains from going to cut outs and !cat has been proven time and time again. it takes a lot more than 5hp to see the gains i found by ditching a "high flow" cat, and it certainly shows much larger gains once you tune the engine since there is no longer the need to dump excess amounts of fuel into the engine just to protect the cat from overheating.
if anyone has lost a motor due to tuning after cat removal they messed something up pretty bad. i drove my camaro on the street, autocross, and drag strip for 3 years after i got rid of the cat and had no ill effects on the engine.
if you choose to believe a magazine test that was done to sell some parts instead of real world results, that is your mistake. look at all teh people you know who have gone !cat and every NHRA stock class car that has ditched them. if having a cat helped or didn't cost horsepower, there would be a national record holder somewhere on this planet with one, but there isn't, so that kind of settles that.

Mien was going from a 3" carsound highflow as well, not stock

Thanks guys!

Tim, you're still missing the point about these being street driven cars. NHRA cars are race cars. You keep recommending that people break the law and remove their cats. That is not wise advice. And most of the tests that I have seen and referred to were done by independent testers and had no association with one of the cat manufacturers. Your car must have had a bad cat. Does that make all of them bad? No. In the end, is it worth the risk of losing the car and paying a large fine because you removed the cats to pick up 5 hp? There is a big push going in CA right now and they're yanking cars off the street left and right and people have to pay a fine($1000-1500) and then make the repairs to be emission's legal before they can re-register and get the car back. Is it worth it for 5 hp? Not if you have to drive the car to get to work. If it's a race car then it doesn't apply since it won't be driven on the street. If you're gonna remove the cats you might as well yank the EFI and put a carb on since your setup is illegal.

Your car has a lot more issues with it so blaming the cat won't do any good. Your battery hold down is costing you 10 hp!:laugh:

i don't know anyone who has ever been pulled over and been busted for their exhaust. and when i say that i include the times that i was pulled over because of how loud my 91 was.
you may also have noticed that we don't live in the republic of california.
you seem to also STILL be missing the fact that it takes more than 5hp to see teh gains that are involved with removing the cats.

bascially jeff, run it in all the circles you want. !cats is a an easy and economical mod that has been proven to show huge gains in f-bodies and has little to no downside.

Other than being illegal. Times are changing and they are cracking down on illegal vehicles. Look at RyanFX who had his tint done last year and just got pulled over for it. He's going to get hasseled constantly for that. And the huge gains are acquired by removing the cat and adding tuning. Did you ever try tuning for the high flow cat? No. Tuning with a high flow cat will get you within 5 hp of no cat. But I honestly don't care if everyone removes their cats. I just don't think it's good advice to tell people to remove them since it's illegal. There better ways to pick up power and stay legal. If you're removing a cat then you better be removing the muffler as well since that's a bigger restriction than the cat. That usually means a cut-out. So put the cut-out in front of the cat(not that a cut-out is legal either).

My car was originally tuned w/ the high flow on.

It's illegal don't do it... if I ever see you going more than 26 in a 25, 41 in a 40, 56 in a 55, etc i'm gonna bitch you out. :lol: