Hmmm, Ford had the Cobra overrated and owners were running around crying because they were coming up 30-40 hp short on the dyno. The last of the F-body's were rated at 305-310 hp and most of them were putting out 300-305 at the rear wheels! Then Corvette owners were crying. Give GM a shot, they will force Ford to play the real game.

:stupid:

Ant'sWS6 dynoed at 327HP I believe and it was damn near stock with only a lid, K&N and possibly a catback, but with no tuning AFAIK.

jakes car is pretty stock to and he was in the 330's hp 340's tq I think

actually I think Jakes car put down 350 tq, but who's counting. jakes car is an 02, they usually made more power then the 2000 and lower years. Plus its an M6 car, there's more power to the wheels right there.

The 99 Cobra's were well over rated. Ford said they were making 310 or 320, to match the Fbody numbers. Turns out that when they were doing the testing, they forgot they put on long tube headers, high flow cats, and a totaly different tuning....
But what they lacked in 99, they made up for with teh 03/04 Cobras. Now I dont liek Ford as much as the next Bow Tie man, but those cars are sicccc!!!!11!!!one!

why is everyone talking about power ratings? you act like the common person knows about wheel horse power and over and underratings. i tried to explain to my friend that LS1s are the same in a vette and a camaro (for the most part) but he couldnt grasp the concept. he refuses to believe anything other then the fact that a SS makes 15hp more then a Z28 LS1 and the vette makes 40hp more then a Z28.

we know the truth, but we are severely out-numbered. a common person will look at the numbers and believe the Ford and Dodge are far superior, and that might hurt sales. and to be honest i was really hoping for a stock forged motor FI car. the ease of modding on those cars are amazing! bolt-ons that give you an extra 100+ reliable horsepower? the GT500 looks really tempting compared to a 6.2 motor thats only putting out maybe 50hp more then a bolt on LS1.

i passed up a slammin deal on a low mileage LS2 Goat this past weekend in hopes of a 500+ hp 5th gen in the future. i guess its my stupidity to think that GM would try to beat ford

Screw the GT500. Yea, it's a 500hp motor. But its in a 3,950ish lb car. The 400 hp vette blew it's doors off. A 3500-3600 lb Camaro with 450hp would be pretty evenly matched with the GT500, and should be several thousand dollars cheaper.

- Justin

when we're talking about GT500s and whatever the top Camaro trim will be, the people that will actualyl buy them either a) will research these things and know them, or b) have too much money to care and just get whatever they think looks better

i'll still take a blown forged motor over an aluminum motor. to get big hp numbers anyway your gonna have to spend money and weight to put them in. and, i'll bet kasey's life that the new camaro is more then 3600lb.

you guys are looking at stock vs stock. look at the numbers those guys in the 03/04 cobras are putting down with bolt ons. it makes us LS1 guys look like poo

That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.

That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.

- Justin

They are putting the 2.0L neon engine in it!

seriously can we put the filter back on for "neon" again???

I think most people buy cars for:

1) Combination of looks and advertised power
2) Loyalty to whichever manufacturer they like
3) Good ratio of style, comfort and practicality
4) And of course, price

Whatever has all of that in abundance will get the sales.

i dont know, i just feel like ford has the mainstream, and the modified markets down better with their lineup. who the hell wants a 5.3? i sure as hell dont

What i feel basically what it comes down to it is, Are you a Ford Man, Chevy Man or a Mopar Man?? Numbers arent going to mean nothing in this battle, Like the battle they had back in the 60's-70's. Hopefully they are going to get loyal chevy customers back into the camaro since the Vette is out of reach for most chevy muscle car fans. I hope the Firebird isnt far behind the Camaro either.

AND 5) i think a big part of the camaro sales will be due to nostalgia, all the guys who used to own a camaro in the past and now can afford one again

no thats garbage nowadays. people go for the better car nowadays. brand loyalty is rare unless you are diehard. many of the guys on LS1tech that are still floating around have gone over to ford. at least three mods have mustangs now

maybe its just me, but i would consider a 5.3l perhaps, with the price of gas, that make make a good advertising angle. plus there are already companies boosting teh 5.3 in the 99-04 trucks with good results. However, if i was going to drop the money for a 5th gen, i would want the highest optioned and biggest motor. lol

well put, forget the 5.3

Brand loyalty is still a huge factor. Look at the 6 cyl Mustangs on the road. I know a couple of people who have gone between GM or Ford but most people stay pretty darn loyal.

you guys got it all wrong.

It doesnt matter about brand loyaltie, trims and motors. GM has to make a good reliable car that can compete against the mustang,350x and other cars. Its not about whos loyal to what, Like justin said we are the minoraty, In order for the camaro to come out and stay out and possibly bring back the trans is going to be.

1.Price
2.Marketing
3. V6
4. Hp/tq

Remember the gto movie that came out when the re introduced the gto? well look at the gto now! Gm has to do more marketing for it to be succsessfull.

Look at all the ricers out their today, their needs to be some racing movies, with the camaro kicking ass. then all teh ricers will be like "ohh snap american muscle"

Like I said before we need the LG4!!

your definately right jeff, what i really meant to say is that brand loyalty isnt as big of a factor as it was before. most kids these days start out with hondas and toyolas anyway so they arent loyal to anything. im sure some of us GM people feel betrayed as well with some of GMs recent moves. I, for one, will not stand for Ford having a faster pony car then Chevy. thats ridiculous.

Al, do you ever make a point without typing a friggin thesis paper???

Ford was faster in the early 80's to.