It seemed like after idling or cruising at low rpm, it would misfire a bit. As soon as you open her up, it runs like a raped ape! and then seemed fine after that. josh (86formula) also noticed it was smelling a bit rich as well. possibly fouled
plugs?

well the day it ran fine i ran a vette and walked him which is good and it feels stronger then before. at this point i still need to get the crank position sensor in it to see if that clears anything up then im just throwing a new opti in it. and it ran fine all day till i hit a spot in the road where alot of water was running across and it started acting up again. 6k on an opti would suck but i just want her fixed at this point. and now even when its running ok its still got a misfire that i can hear which im pretty sure is fouled plugs so im going to pull all of them tomorrow cause its supposed to be nice out. this is turning into such a project lol

think, youll be walking more vettes when its fixed!

i feel bad seeing you go through this man...sucks when its on the internet because all we can really say is "try this part." Throwing parts at it generally will fix the problem eventually but only after a good bit of money is spent, unless you get really lucky and get it on the first or second shot. New defective parts suck, too, because you have it dead set in your head that "i just replaced that part, it cant be bad." I have gone through it a bunch of times.

If you hit water and it started acting funny...i would think maybe there is a hairline crack in something that you cant see and its allowing water in, causing the spark to find its way to another cylinder, path of least resistance...

As far as the rich smell, I wouldnt condemn the plugs so quickly...these cars generally have an ignition that could clean a plug off relatively fast if everything is working up to par...depending on quality of said plug and all...
If i recall you dont have cats, and you are taking a lot more air into the engine than before...and on a stock tune it may run a little more fat...next time you scan it check out the Block learn multiplier values (aka long term fuel trim) and see where its at...

I would still pull the plugs and inspect them for cracks in the porcelan and possible fouling.. When you are looking at them a magnifying glass will help or of you are in doubt just replace them..

i can plug in hp tuners and do a basic scan and see the LT and ST fuel trims if that holds accurate

Have you checked for any vacuum leaks? From what i have seen with crank sensors is when there bad the car will not run or when they get hot the car will stall and not start till it cools down. Not so much with the Pontiac's but we get a lot of Caddy's with sensor problems. Do you know what your MAP and BARO sensor readings are?

no i havent checked for Vacuum leaks but this seems much more like ignition, over the next couple weeks all of the ignition is getting replaced down to the opti, some of its due anyway, and i will check the plugs as you said Josh. just have to wait till a little more money comes in. christmas did me in a little bit. thanx for all of the info guys. do you have HP Tuners Dan? i have the log file saved that has all of that on there

Nah man, no HP Tuners for me at this time.

ill give you a call and see when you can stop by bestbuy, ill just bring my laptop with me and let you check it out

Vacuum leaks are usually not intermittent. Also definately check the injectors, if one was getting weak it could hang open once it has cycled for a while and make the car run rich and have a big miss at low rpm's.

where 2 of the plugs were arching i believe.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0561.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0563.jpg
but the tips look fine, not fouled or anything
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0562.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0564.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0565.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f/IMG_0566.jpg
my guess is that moisture got in at the plugs and became the path of least resistance so it was arching there rather then on the tip. seems to be running much better now with the new plugs but well see how long that lasts.

Not sure if I can see an arc track but the plug tips look damn good, I am impressed that they arent way off since you have a stock tune.

well putting all new plugs in actually cleared up the problem, im going to inspect them more to see if i can find any cracks in the old ones but it runs alot smoother and all and no missfire.

In that first picture it looks like that black streak through the 'R' could be a crack. Do you wipe it off and look at it closer? Good to hear it's running better. Gotta love the simple and inexpensive repairs.

that would be anti seize. ok i was wrong, its still missing but not like before. only at low RPMs and it probably wouldnt be noticeable if i didnt drive the car every day. i can hear it in the exhaust and its causing a vibration in the car as well. next paycheck im probably replacing all of my ignition parts other then the plugs obviously cause theyre brand new. but other then the low RPMs she runs GREAT

now its missing at low r's? I know you were careful but are you sure you got them all in properly and undamaged? Gapped correctly? Its strange that the symptom changed with new plugs. That does tell me that you are on the right track..

yeah i checked and double checked all of the gaps (.050) and didnt drop any of the plugs. could it have been a combination of plugs and wires?? im thinking maybe it was the plugs and something else that was causing it so im gonna start replacing some cheap things and see where it takes me.

You used a very light coat of anti-sieze, only on the first few threads- right?

ask josh, he reinstalled my plugs when he had the car lol looked like there was a generous amount on there

When I install plugs in alu inum heads I always use anti sieze on the threads. Dosent matter where you put it, it will spread around as they are threaded in.

Did you ever get around to replacing the coil wire?

yup did that almost right away.

Eh, I'm really just throwing it out there as a random possibility. I tracked down a misfire once that ended up being a smearing of copper anti-seize on electrodes, but I can't imagine either one of you being that messy.

alright, I got a plan for you.

Get then car in a garage and make it as dark as you can in there.

Get a windex bottle and fill it with water and set it on the mist setting.

Go to the car, start it and start spraying down the ignition system while the car is running (do not put your hands near spinning objects) when you hit the weak spot in the insulation it will studder and make blue arcs that you should be able to see very easily.

How old skool of you. I have a spray bottle of water in the garge for that. :)