no ****....really? wow...your a ****ing genious...still where the term came from...nascar never was about factory cars...its always been team owners. hendric, roush, evernham and the like. I don't see were manufacturers come into play beside the sticker on the nose and the checks in the mail...you want to see "factory" or lightly modified cars watch CMC series or old Trans Am series.

ok bubba, keep being the internet tough guy. start cursing and acting like a douchebag because someone questioned what you said.....btw, in the 50s and 60s, they shared a lot of "stock" components

hey, you wanted to be a sarcastic d-bag don't get pissy when I give you the same attitude.

but yea, there wasnt the same aftermarket we have now. so they had to use a lot of factory parts. like putting heads from one chevy engine on another for higher compression or better flow.

sarcastic? i was pretty much agreeing, but going into more detail

you dont even need to consider modifying motors.........the cars then were built on the factory chassis, now they have stickers.

I think of it as meaning the cars are from a "stock" more than being stock(as in factory) cars. As in as many of the components are the same, so where driver and pit crew skill are more determinant than cash supply/parts

this pace car is just WRONG!.... pace cars have always been an exciting car, one that they make replicas of and sell... i dont see toyota building a replica hybrid pace car and selling it... jsut dont see it happening!

and thats when nascar was worth a damn...so your agreeing that stock cars were more "stock" when thats not what "stock" reffered to, and they are less "stock" now that "stock has taken different meaning?

and yes sarcastic, over our various interactions you tend to be, in general, an ass, not quite *******, but an ass notheless. so don't get pissy when something you say is taken wrong.

To me it just seems like it's not in the spirit of racing. That's all. Racing is about speed, excitement, and nobody giving a **** about crappy fuel economy or a green environment. Be it F1, Rally, NASCAR, or the NHRA. A hybrid does not belong.

beretta, grand am, grand prix, ford thunderbird, chevy tahoe, dodge daytona, ford fusion sport, ford fusion HYBRID, toyota solara

a bunch of exciting cars right there :lol:

thats right, this isnt the first hybrid to pace a race, omg now what

That wasn't in the spirit of racing either. My beef is not that it's a Toyota, or a low powered vehicle- it's that it's a hybrid. Kind of like when people eat a gallon of ice cream and then drink a diet coke with it.

i agree that it just dosent fit, and i agree its against the spirit of the sport.... but im arguing with those saying that pace cars have always been cool exciting cars that could sell as replicas, and im arguing with the people that didnt cry about the last hybrid, but hate this one because of the badge on the grille

That's what I figured. No arguement there. IMO the most heinous of the pace cars was the Quad 4 Beretta in 1990.

Not true. Actually in the 50's NASCAR actually sanctioned races using european cars ( Jaguars, Porsche's, MG's) and actually became a hit. They advertised it as races to find out who was superior. Bill France Sr. Actually had a part in organizing this. There was a big article about this in Vintage Motorsports a few years ago when Toyota came into NASCAR and people complained about how NASCAR has always been domestic cars.

Actually Mark is a skilled road course driver as well, and actually won in his class at the Daytona 24hrs. back in the 80's and 90's when Jack Roush ran Mustangs in IMSA. He also is the only driver to win the pole and win the race 3 consecutive times on a road course ( Watkins Glen 93-95) Mark has always been a driver in contention to win, and I feel if 15 years ago Mark would of gone to Hendrick, the championship names would be different. Jack Roush gave him a second chance in NASCAR (Mark ran from 1981-1984, with poor results, so he went back to the ASA). and Mark has alwas been greatful for it.

Back in the day, actually stock ment no tube frame cars, and no hyped up motors. The cars didnt always run on pavement tracks infact many of them were dirt, so the cars were equipped with beefier suspension, and guards around the car, and what not to handle the tracks. In the first domestic vs. import race, the SCCA was supposed to go against them, but at the last minute they pulled out, so Bill France and the organizers scrambled out and picked up several imports, and were in no way modified, and they were literally shaken apart from the track.

F1 is startign the use the KERS system, and also in the ALMS, teams ar starting to use alternative fuels ( E85) as well as back in 98 I believe, the Panoz team brought a GTR-1 with a hybrid regeneration system in it, but proved to be too heavy at the time, and wasent competative enough. hybrid systems are wanting to be inserted into racing, but if it will take away their edge on the competition, no one wants to use it, they also want to make sure it will be 100% reliable. I think Hybrid systems will one day become the deciding factor of who's got the edge over who, but right now, its still at a crawling pace to try and apply it,so once the racing world sees a hybrid system that is beneficial enough to use, this day and age of crying and grumbling about hybrid cars will be nothing but a distant memory.

My point of contention is that the common hybrid systems that you see on the road today (like the one in the Camry) are not designed with speed or performance in mind. They are designed for economy. Other pace cars had some form of shared ground with performance.

Sorta like going to a slayer concert and having miley cyrus kick the show off....

Or like naming a concert after a Ted Nugent song full of thinly-veiled innuendo and then inviting bubblegum pop singers.

Oh wait...

Maybe NASCAR is making political statement...maybe they're trying to get Billy Bob and Peggy Sue to ditch their gas guzzling 70's pickup truck and get a nice, polar bear friendly hybrid so we can all sit around a fire and sing kumbaya.

Would make sense after the latest MPG/emissions requirements just passed...

Its not up to NASCAR to decides who paces the field its the sponsor of the track and Lowe's is sponsored by Toyota so Toyota picked the car they want to pace the field. All the American brands usually pick the car they want to market to pace the field, and in most of history its always been a performance car.

Ahhh ok...I was just being a wise ass....I could care less what the pace car is in a boring, retarded sport. I don't know the rules really....don't care either. :lol:

i always thought the job of the pace car was to show off new ideas and the technology of the future....hybrids are just that arent they?

I thought Lowes sponsored Chevy?
I remember Home Depot went Toyota. While I never watch Nascar, I know that I have removed myself from shopping there.

Hey people,how about emailing Dave Dispain on wind tunnel and tell him what you think of Jap cars in a american sport!! here is his email> windtunnel@speedtv.com <windtunnel@speedtv.com> We should give him a email bomb!! And ask why is there so many empty seats at a nascar race? Why is Jimmy Spencer and Kenny wallace pleading for people to come out to the races??? BECAUSE OF TOYOTA THATS WHY!!!
Tell him to get toyota outta nascar!!

you sure its not because of the economy? :wink: every sport has had attendance issues this year, it has nothing to do with toyota being there. open your mind a little