yep I fight every ticket with that "PACE" marked because one a cop always guns it to he's on your bumper, by this time any person normal person would have slowed down or shift to a lower gear. and on top of that i ask in court when was the speedometer last calibrated and since no one every been able to come up with that paper work bye-bye ticket :)

well you can fight it because the cop has to prove u was driving careless which you wasn't .. you can even if the cop does come to court get him to put himself in a hole if he is asked to recall the date in question. in which you pass him and a group of cars then pulled back over to the right lane.

Yup. It's a great tool for when you have someone who commits more than one violation and rather than hammering out multiple tickets, you can just give the one that covers everything. In this instance, there's:

1. Speeding ("You were going a little fast there.") I know you don't believe you were speeding and that he would've just written you for it, but the latter is not necessarily the case.

2. Failure to keep right (Which is a simple way of saying cruising in the left lane) I know you don't believe this either as you were, by your account and perception, passing.

O.P., as I said earlier, fighting the actual violation assigned and actually winning: Chances are slim to none. Talking to the prosecutor and downgrading to unsafe (Which still exists and costs about $400+ and avoids points): Better odds. Whatever you do, please take everything posted here as opinion. If you are thinking of contesting the ticket and going to trial, the best course of action would be to ask the advice of a lawyer.

The department I work for now frequently calibrates the speedometers by dyno, and the department I worked for years ago did it a few times a year by having a trained officer drive every car in the fleet past another trained officer working a calibrated radar unit. As far as the date in question, it's on the ticket. On the officer's copy of the summons, there's a spot for remarks. The wiser cops use this space to make sure they don't forget details. Remember that if you choose to go to trial, barring physical evidence, it becomes your word against that of someone who routinely testifies in court on the side of the prosecution, as well as that of the prosecutor. In the ten years of doing what I do, I can count on one hand the number of times I saw someone represent themselves on a moving violation and win.

Don't fight it. The system is so rigged, its legal extortion. The reason why i changed majors, law enforcement for moving violations is one big scam. Just going to waste your time and money in court... every lawyer knows every judge and their prosecutors. I stopped fighting the legal system long ago, just not worth it. Everyone's bound to cross a cop who's going to screw you for no reason, was just your time.

it is also up to the prosecutor and judges if they will allow you to plead unsafe to this offense. the 8 points on your license will be reason enough for them to keep the ticket as it stands. also the unsafe statute used to be 1 time in 3 years, but iirc they chopped it down to a one time deal only...if that is correct then you might wanna save that for a larger offense (say a 15+ ticket or something).


if you do fight it the judge is going to look at your record and see that you have a history of motor vehicle violations. when it comes down to your word vs the cop, those 8 points will weigh heavily on him favoring the cop over you.


it sucks and sometimes seems unfair. also you said its a 4 lane road and he had to go over a few lanes to get up to you....which means you had to pass those cars too. the cop might have given you the ticket for carless for changing multiple lanes too quickly or something along the lines which would be covered in the umbrella of ''careless.''


either way i think you are gonna waste your time fighting it. if you can pay the ticket and not go to court it might just be worth it to do that and save yourself the hassle.

While I see what you're saying, here you have me misunderstood... I never moved over multiple lanes.. I was in the center left lane going 70, came on a group of cars going about 60 (which is under the speed limit), moved to the left lane to pass, moved back to the center left lane after I was done passing. For all intents and purposes, I passed correctly.. He gave me the ticket for using the left lane..

I also do not currently have 8 points, I have 5 possibly 6, in the last 10 years. My 2nd 2 point ticket came when my first 2 pointer was almost 2 years old, but not quite long enough for the points to be gone. I know points are points, and it sucks to have them, but none of them were crazy moving violations. All speeding, less than 10mph over. They didnt seem worth fighting at the time, that might have just been a bad decision on my part.

It's worth fighting in my opinion. The best you can do is state your case. You've never tried to "get one over" on the system. The best you can do is be honest, and if the state doesn't want to honor that, then at least you'll know you gave it a shot. Might be worth it to seek legal advice. For me it would be more about the principle than the money or points.

Some of the traffic laws throughout the state can get a little rediculous. Along with the points system. I can't wait to get out of this state.

Points are supposed to be erased every 12 months of ticket free driving. I'd see if someone could run your license and tell you exactly how many you currently have.

You can simply call the DMV and they will tell you.

JW :D

theyll tell you to come down and pay 5 dollars for your printed out drivers abstract. :nod:

I called trenton and they look it up on the computer and give it to me, I do it every year... I finally got my surcharges done :)

JW :D

After reading this you need to go fight this. Your saying you were driving down a 4 lane road? As in 4 lanes going the one direction? And you got pulled over for driving in the left for using a middle lane?

Even if thats not that case go and represent yourself. Yes the legal system can be quite rigged BUT its totally untrue that people dont win. Yes you need to be smart, and ask the right questions but its definitely doable. My friends step father completely humiliated an officer in court and tore his bs argument down on a pacing ticket. And to boot hes a bearded rough looking biker.

You honestly need to go in there like you know exactly what your talking about and ask him a bunch of questions you know he wont be able to answer and come off good. Start by asking him how well he recalls the incident. Right off the bat you'll have him against a wall because hes either gotta say not well and look shoddy or say well and need to answer every little nit picky question you choose to ask him.

The point is to make him loose credibility in front of the judge. This is exactly how my friends stepfather won his case. You gotta get them to say they'll be able to provide every little detail and then grill them on it. When they come up short on a question you stick it to them and ask them well if they're unsure of that detail how can they be sure you were really improperly passing?

All that coupled with the fact that your actually right will win your case. And if speed even comes up then all you have to say is if you were really pulling me over for going faster than you than why didnt you properly pace me and issue me the correct ticket?

yeah hq can do it. forgot about that




edit: trying to make a cop look bad in front of a judge is asking for future trouble. its not right, but its a fact of life. if you do fight it, with or without a lawyer, just dress up, be intelligent, speak clearly and with proper grammar and articulate your situation as best as you can to the judge. with a little luck youll garner a little bit of support and beat it

I'm not saying you have to try and show your outright trying to make him look bad but the whole point of your argument in court needs to be to discredit his recalling the situation better. Its the only way to win in he said vs she said.

eh most likely it'll go like this. go to court, check in with the prosecutor at the desk, he'll let you know what the options are then you go sit back down. when you are called up most likely the cop will already have talked to the prosecutor, the prosecutor will speak to the judge, then you will speak to the judge and then the judge will rule on it. its not a trial so you dont get any chance to ask the cop any questions.

Lol thats bs thats not how its "suppose" to go. The right to a trial isnt just speaking with a judge at a separate time from the person defending.

I know my friends stepdad actually got to sit there and question the cop and wound up making her look like an idiot because not only are the pacing laws BS but she didnt even follow procedure for it.

what nasty is describing is amending the charge and then you plead guilty to the amended charge and not the original one, thats where the prosecutor usually lessens the offense of fine.
Courts almost always do all the "guilty" please first, then move on to the "not guilty" please where then a "trial" takes place, just without a jury of your peers. The judge is the jury so most of the time it is more difficult to convince him to rule in your favor. And once you go that route, there no chance at lessening the charge so thats why people plead guilt to lesser offense because its more of a sure thing.
However in a case where you have solid undeniable proof, by all means ask for the trial, but your word vs a cops word is a no brainer in a judges eyes, youll lose.

now melissa, as for your situation. i really dont know what to tell you. at the minimum go try to get it reduced. Youd have to listen to any LEOs on here that have said their opinion since im sure they've been through a similar case and can predict how it would turn out if taken to trial.

this is the best advice, so far.


now, to make sure we're all on the same page:
(UPDATED THROUGH P.L. 2010, ch. 6, and JR 16 of P.L.2009)
TITLE 39 MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC REGULATION
39:4-97. Careless driving
39:4-97. A person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving.

there is also:
39:4-97.1. Slow speeds as blocking traffic
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

but, since we're not talking about slow speeds, disregard 39:4-97.1. so, a person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving.

i'd like to know what property or person she was likely to endanger or did endanger. yes, it is an umbrella ticket, meant to describe a manner of driving that could encompass driving fast (would likely endanger those going slower than her, if above the limit then those doing the limit). BUT... i don't see her driving without caution (she was aware of the cop and the pack of cars he was in) and circumspection (she moved over immediately after passing) or in a manner likely to endanger anyone. 5 mph over the limit is not endangering anyone, as a tap on the brake pedal is enough to slow you to the limit. this, i believe, is the reason that a cop will not usually write a citation for vehicles passing at that speed (the other reason is simply a change in tire can put you 5 mph over the limit, even though your speedometer says the limit). they are looking for the people who are a danger to others. melissa, in this respect, was not endangering anyone nor was she likely to endanger anyone if she had kept doing the same speed.

bottom line: the cop was wrong in writing this ticket. fight it. with or without a lawyer, although with a lawyer you have a better chance of winning. now, it comes down to how much you want to pay. most traffic lawyers that i know of charge $500+ for a court appearance, so i guess it comes down to who you want to pay... the lawyer or the court?

and, of course, i am not a lawyer. i am merely a private citizen with an above average knowledge/interpretation of traffic laws. the best advice, as stated, is to seek out the counsel of an attorney. the above stated is not to be thought of as fact; merely my opinion of the circumstances as stated.

the really bad part is the grey area of the law that is open to interpretation and intent. thats a huge area :lol:

so... i went for the 1st court date.. the prosecutor offered me unsafe driving, which is that bs where they get more money but you get no points and you can only use it 2 or 3 times in your life.. I'm not paying $500, i feel like that's just them trying to weasel more money out for no reason.. They tried to call the State Police to get the officer that wrote the tickets statement, couldn't get ahold of the barracks.. so now I wait for another date. If I go to court 2 or 3 more times and it gets dismissed, I'll be happy. Municipal court always makes me feel better about my life anyhow :lol:

If you plead not guilty, did you?, and the cop didnt respond they should give you ONE date. If the cop doesnt show or respond to defend his giving you the ticket it should get dismissed.

Dont let them give you a date to show up on and then when your case gets called them tell you theyre rescheduling if the cops not there. If they try to pull that **** call them on it and tell them that he had an obligation to be there, your making your case, and that you guess thats the only side of the story thats going to be heard that day.

Exactly.

And the court trying to get more money? Welcome to NJ :lol:

i pay attention to what others are doing in municipal court. some of them are so funny to watch.

this.

I think you messed up by saying you'll come back =/

As far as feeling better about yourself.. oh yeah. The person before me in court was facing fines for being drunk, high, AND underage while driving with no license. I was like alriiiight I can follow this =D

Fixed.