Most 90' IROC's were hard tops too, right?

I have a black 4th gen with a black tail pannel...can I call it a berger too? :lol:
the thing tha pisses me off most about 4th gen owners and the stupid **** they say...is the whole LS1/350 thing...that and I know like 5 guys with 3rd gens that SWEAR they have 5 speed autos...cause they count the TC lock-up as a gear

Ehhhhh
IROC was a top trim Z28 from 85-87 to show the similiarity of the IROC Camaros and the street versions. BUT, you could get a Z28 with just about the same options without going to IROC.
IROC got you Bilstiens, 16 inch wheels, larger sway bars and other chassis reinforcements and a bunch of other options standard.
In 88 to 90, there was no basic Z28 trim. There was the standard sport coupe, the RS, and then the IROC-Z.
Then in 90 when GM lost the rights to the name and no longer participated in IROC, the Z28 regained the top trim.

RS was not the base car, it was an appearance package that got you the IROC/Z28's gfx.

ive always thought the ''tail panel'' was considered a filler panel :shifty:

only on cars wth an actuall trunk I believe

I always believed that the RS became the base model starting in 1989? You couldn't get "just" a Camaro. It was either an RS (sporting either V6 {2.8 later 3.2} or a 305 TBI,) or an Iroc, and starting in 1991-1992 a Z28 (with 305 or 350 TPI).
Sorry if my wording is confusing, its late.

Im sorry, there was only the RS from 89 to 92.

Oh Come On!!! You guys are missing the MOST commonly misused automotive term. MOTOR. The Motor is not that thing under your hood with the pistons, cam, etc. That is an ENGINE. Motor's run off of electricity.

The End

Actually 87 was the first year that the RS name was brought back. There were only 600 or so cars made that year as a RS and were only allowed to be ordered in Cali.

FWIW the RPO code for the IROC's 88-90 was Z28 not B4Z... Hrmm

88 was just a "Camaro" as the base model. Also that year the LO3 became the standard engine in the camaro's. Yes even the IROC's.

89 the RS became the base model...

A starter is a motor. :)

i'd bet they don't even care. btw, you hit the nail on the head with this one.

further, humans like things that fit neatly into categories. if it doesn't fit into a category, they get upset and don't know what to call it. this is how "naming" things gets put into play. the whole g-machine thing, for instance, is a way to describe resto-modification of an older car with newer parts. g-machine for the increased ability to pull high g-forces on a circular track built to test such abilities. if there wasn't a name for it, one would have been "invented". hence, why people erroneously call a blacked-out tail panel a berger panel, because someone invented it and the terminology spread. it fits neatly in a category, and it easily explains what a blacked-out tail panel is, because when you say berger panel people immediately envision a blacked-out tail panel.

so the blacked out tail panels on mopars and rustnags are berger panels, too, right? :mrgreen:

Yeah. So is the one on my Nova.

Exactly....a starter runs off electricity. Just like a wiper motor, headlight motor, blower motor, etc. Wonder if we can call the new electric water pumps motors?? haha

The motor drives the impeller!

Now is it an alternator or a generator? :scratch:

don't forget that the LT was still available in '87.

btw, you made me pull out my books. 2.8 V6 available in sport coupe and LT models. while the 5-speed manual was the "standard" transmission, it was automatically upgraded to the 4-speed auto when the V8 was put in the car. something about the rear not being able to handle the torque from the 350/5speed combo or some other such non-sense.

so in '87 there were 4 models, the sport coupe, LT, Z-28 and IROC Z, plus the California only RS model. i only ordered the factory assembly manuals for the '69 and '87, since at that time i was only interested in those years. i really could have used a '91-'92, since that is what the '87 car will look like in the end. i was hoping to pull it off so that the VIN would be the only way to tell it wasn't a '91-'92, but without the manual i might not hit all of the exterior points that need to be addressed.

factory assembly manuals were available free from MSX International, ATTN: GM Chevy Resto, 1426 Pacific Dr., Auburn Hills, MI 48326, but i don't know if the company is still sending them out for free or not.

if jeff is the go-to-guy for first gens, Kat is the go-to-guy for third gens...

Same thing, same output.

Don't put any "Motor Oil" in your engine and see how long it lasts:rofl: Sorry, I couldn't resist...

4th gens with berger panels have nothing to do with the 60s muscle cars. it came from the dick harrell supercars that gmmg built for berger chevrolet. unless you can find me a 4th gen camaro that had a berger panel before the dick harrell cars were built and they referred to it as a berger panel, you are simply misinterpreting the term.

YES! I'm not the only anal person around here that twitches every time someone says motor when they mean ENGINE!!!!!

And I always thought if the "Berger panel" was gloss black it had a 30/30 cam, and if it was flat black it had a 3/4 cam? And for the record, the 15/16 cam was never a factory option.

Yes it does. It has everything to do with it. Yes, we all understand gmmg brought back the black tail panel, and thus the term 'berger panel'. But the whole concept was an obvious nod to the old big block cars.

I agree with the sentiment that if you do have one of those gmmg cars i suppose you can call them berger panels (is that what GMMG called them??).

it is a nod back to the big block cars and no, gmmg called them black tail panels :lol:

i'm stubborn and i heart my berger panel

If GMMG does not call them berger panels and they "invented" it then there is no such thing!!!!!

hog wash! they didn't know what they made!!!!

GMMG didnt call it a Berger pannel, the clueless 4th genners collectively gave it that name due to the fact that Berger cars had this black out pannel that was in fact something that GMMG/Berger put on thier 4th gens to pay homage to the big block muscle Chevy's of the future.

So Cliffs?
4th genners dont know thier history
Old people want the young people to understand history
4th genners are ignorant

Thirdgens come factory with "Berger" pannels.

The tail panel on my '79 between my tail lights is flat black, :idea: I'm going to call it a berger panel from now on since thats the cool thing to do.:shrug:



:bbq: Burger Panel?

Also, it extremely bothers me when someone calls a straight 6 a V6, and vice versa. It makes me want to punch a baby.