Hang on guys, we're confusing two big things here. There's a difference between the right to own guns and the right to carry concealed....BIG difference.

what goods a gun at home locked in a cabinet while your being held at gunpoint

You guys are all assuming that our founding fathers meant the right to bear arms was for self defense. It wasn't meant for that purpose, it was meant for the purpose of defending our country. So arming yourself with a gun to shoot your neighbor when he breaks in to steal a loaf of bread is not defensable. The right to bear arms was meant to be controlled by the gov't. :rofl: Kind of ironic, isn't it! :nod:

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The right to bear arms was to defend the country from tyrannical leaders who disregard the Constitution and other founding ideals.

Due the the complete and utter stupidity of most people, that would end up more like, guy kills someone, everyone pulls their guns, panics, doesnt even know who shot first, miss their shots, everyone dies

thin the herd

you don't need to go that far away. Kngston, Jamaica is closer. go there and walk from one garrison to the next and see if you don't get shot at.

gun control laws do not affect the criminal. criminals buy their guns illegally. banning guns of a specific type doesn't work, nor do magazine limits. they are all pacifiers for the sheep.

Gun control, as it sits now, does nothing. He followed the law to the T. And that poses a problem. How do we know who is crazy, who should be able to own a wepon?
On one side, you say that since we cannot figure out who is qualified to own a wepon, and who isnt, then we should either remove all wepons or give everyone a wepon.

Ok, so who is right in that situation? Yes the depressed man who lost his job is in the wrong, but does that give the right to the other bystandard to take another mans life? No it does not. He is not above the law, he took a mans life, and he will pay with his life.
Yet another aspect is that are you willing to spend the rest of your life in jail for taking the life of someone? You kill someone, be it defense or offense, you broke the law and now you will pay.
And secondly...your average citizen is not that accurate. Best case is that he hits the person, the person goes down but is has a life altering injury, and he would sue you for discharging your wepon and destroying his life.




No one will ever take the right of an American to own a gun away..no one.
I dont care how right wing crazy facist religious miltant stone cold **** nuts you are, you will never loose the right to own a gun.

But in an elevated and educated society, we can evolve past the level of violence, that is the ultimate target.

Again, Im not a fan of removing the right to own a gun, and I belive that people should be educated on saftey use of several subjects.

amen.

kill 'em all, let god sort them out. i'll never forget that bumper sticker, seen in the '70s on a white van with painted flames. the other bumper sticker on that van was: they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

if there is a person in the room that is threatening the life of everyone in the room then yes....i do have the right to take his life to stop him from taking mine. its called justifiable homicide.





heres an interesting twist....



a rabid dog bursts into your job and starts biting people. would you kill the dog? why is a human any different?

:lol: dogs can't justify as you put it

You never learned about self defense, ehh?

Show me the law where its ok to kill someone. Show me that exception in the US Constitution, the same document that people hold up when they want their rights upheld.

A dog is an animal, and does not have the same rights as a human, and as of right now there is no law that gives animals the same rights as humans. Some humans might think they do, but they dont.
What usually happens is the dog is put down due to the saftey risk that it imposes to people. Just as if a human were to rampage into a building and start biting, hitting, shooting people.

just having a gun doesn't make a person 'bad' (cheers, tsar). just having a gun in this type of situation does not mean it will be a nightmare or havoc. not all people resort to tears in the face of a dangerous situation.

finally, it's not the gun that kills, it's the person who pulls the trigger. a gun, by itself, is not dangerous. guns are not bad. people can be bad. those people who are bad that have guns, legal or otherwise, are what causes things like binghamton and columbine.

i do not currently own any projectile weapons. the future will almost dictate that i own one or two.

Here's a handy dandy self defense thingy....

This is for the state of NJ. Woohooo.

Yes, but thats a very loose deffinition. If someone was to break into your house, you would have to show that you were going to be harmed, and thats hard as hell.
If they come in, steal the TV, and leave, you cant shoot them.
In Texas.... different.

No. Once their back is turned the act is defined as "complete" and you cannot do a damned thing.

We are not talking about stealing Tv's in here, don't change your tune, we are talking about protecting ourselves. Earlier you said that you can not do that. If anyone broke into my house and threatened me, or anyone else (in my house) I would put the statue to the test. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, if **** went wrong and they weren't there for a TV.
This is true indeed. They can also have a knife, but once you pull a gun on them and if they stop the aggression you must seize your defense. Otherwise it murder.

Im not changing my tune, Im talking about the "law" you posted up.
First off, you cannot carry in NJ unless you jump through every single hoop.
So, that means you CANNOT defend yourself in an instance like this.
So really, what are you bringing up that law for? Its for home defense, thats all.
None of what you posted means ****.

Well, there is a huge difference between stealing TV's and coming to kill you. I dont think anyone is coming to kill you unless you have crossed the mob or other dark and shaddy group of criminals.
They are robbing you, and if you shoot them, you go to jail. And you lost your life. Its either death or death from getting butt ****ed by Bubba.

Please stick to being a cheerleader for GM, u do that better.

if someone used FORCEFUL means to gain entry into your locked house you have the reasonable right to diffuse the situation with a firearm. if you do not see a weapon you cannot shoot to kill, if there is reasonable danger (i.e burglar with a gun) you have the right to fire upon the assailant.





it would be the same difference if they allowed the right to carry a concealed weapon. the situation in ny is the perfect example. if your carrying a gun, it means your confidant with it and at the very least COMPETENT with it.



i liked the old song you were singing al....why'd you change the track?

I'm genuinely interested in your point of view about this. How would you change the law? If the guy was stable for years then had a breakdown in a matter of months there's NO law that would stop that. The only way to stop that is to make every gun owner get a psychiatric evaluation every 6 months, lol. That's not only impossible but it'd be a drain on an already ass-backwards health system.

The problem is every time something bad happens people rush to make laws to "fix it". That's the problem with this country, every time something goes wrong we rely on our lawmakers to come up with a solution. This obviously isn't a small issue, innocent people lost their lives but how many people die from cancer due to chemicals in the air or cigarettes?

...and man...it's spelled weapon. ;):D

:kneeslap: :rofl: :kneeslap:

i saw that, but decided to concentrate on the issue. people are quick to categorize. if something doesn't fit into a neat, little category, they have trouble dealing with it. that's why this debate still goes on, because it doesn't fit into a neat, little category. it's all over the place, filled with variables and different situations that cannot be clearly defined.

you can "what-if" all you want, it comes down to the cold, hard statement that guns are not bad. guns do not kill people. people kill people.

it doesn't matter what type of gun you outlaw or what limits you put on the magazine. if someone wants to die tomorrow, then they will surely find a way to make that happen. same thing goes if they want a gun. it doesn't matter how many laws are on the books.

if you outlaw guns, then only the outlaws will have guns.

but but but what if they broke into your house to plant flowers! :lol: Maybe they just brought the gun for fun!


Damn hippies.




Truth, my gun has been in my nightstand for quite a while now. Everyone is still alive.

Stupid people fail to see this. It's like arguing with those pro-life pro-choice people, it's pointless. Damn I think that issue is even worse. :lol:

what about the criminal who attempts to rob you but breaks his leg while trying to get it, sues you, and wins? when do you pull the trigger there? before or after you shell out the cash?